The MMA thread (mk1)

[Edward Yee]

For me the exposure came not from Seth Petruzelli dropping him, but rather from what happened on the ground. If he had so much as pulled guard, EliteXC might still be around... 'course, who'd have known that he had no "rocked" instinct. (Reminds me of the "Fedor's was to clinch, Matt Hughes' was to double leg, Rashad Evans' was to talk shit" idea.)

[weemadando]

Even on the feet he was nothing - lets look at how many times James Thompson should have gotten a stoppage over him before his siamese twin exploded.

[aerius]

Cro cop needs to hang it up, you can't win a fight with only a left straight and left kick, especially when you miss the left kick 80% of the time. It was painful to watch, there were so many chances for Cro cop to drill the guy in the body & legs with kicks but he kept going for the high kick and missing. He's not learning or adapting and in fact he seems to be regressing, if Cro cop was doing something to show that he was improving or trying to stay competitive I'd say sure, stick it out for another fight or 2 and see how things go, but he's not. He's not even putting on good fights like Wanderlei Silva, I think it's time for him to retire.

Also, another night of the shitty refs, they need to get Mario Yamasaki and Herb Dean back in there. The Trigg fight was an ok stoppage, but the Kampmann stoppage was way early. Yeah Kampmann was getting hit pretty good, but he wasn't out on his feet since as soon as the ref stopped the fight he put his hands down, skipped to the side and went "you're stopping this why?" Should've let him eat a few more punches or wait till he goes down before stopping it.

[Edward Yee]

Chuck Liddell makes it to R2 of Dancing with the Stars (Macy Gray eliminated... probably what she was hoping for, if TMZ was to be believed), while Rampage has apparently ragequit from MMA, leaving Rashad Evans with, likely, Thiago Silva for a UFC 108 opponent.

[weemadando]

There's lots of MMA related news in the past few days.

Rampage quitting made me laugh. After all the backing the UFC has given him (bailing his arse out of massive legal trouble) and letting him keep headlining, he throws the TUF10 advertorial they made for him back in their face, delays his fight with Rashad and now quits when they call him out on it? I actually had an image in my head of the Fertitta's having to be talked down from ordering a hit on him like any good Vegas casino mogul.

In a reverse of this, it seems that Roger Huerta has realised that he's never going to be Brad Pitt and is coming back to MMA.

Kenny Florian and Marc De La Grotte have parted ways - no news on where Kenny is off to.

Frank Trigg is talking retirement. Chalk that up under "who gives a shit?"

DREAM has announced that they'll be hosting an upcoming show in a cage. About fucking time. I'm sick of seeing guys escape a submission or beatdown by shoving their arm through the ropes and having a ref break it up.


Randy Couture v Brandon Vera is on, we know that. Strikeforce has sealed the matching deal: Kim Couture v Kerry Vera.

Big John McCarthy has been stopped from ref'ing in Nevada. Keith Kizer says it's "protocol" related. Heaping piles of Zuffa related income to NSAC would indicate that other concerns may also be in play.

TUF next week - Roy Nelson v Kimbo Slice. Now that'll be a fight to watch. This weeks was appalling garbage and both men should have been fed to the fucking tigers afterwards. Seriously, you came into the competition that out of shape? It's not like we haven't seen 9 seasons of dickheads gassing out and failing before, surely you could have learnt from that.

[Edward Yee]

First, that DREAM.12 promo video was AWESOME. I don't like the sound of "First and Last," though, but is it actually going to be Zaromskis vs. Tamura? If so, WAR WHITE MARE. (Nothing against Kiyoshi Tamura himself.)

Regarding Rampage... ehh. It does look worse when you consider that UFC 107 is in Rampage's hometown, was to be headlined by his legit rival who's on TUF to recover from Machida, and that all of this is happening because Rampage gave up the title shot which had been declared right after UFC 98... win/loss probabilities aside, UFC 104 would have been bigger with Rampage taking on Machida instead of Shogun.

Evans has already had to turn down a replacement opponent of Randy Couture, looked at Anderson Silva (complete with doing an impersonation of his own mother telling him to stop calling out Silva), before settling on Thiago Silva it seems.

In a reverse of this, it seems that Roger Huerta has realised that he's never going to be Brad Pitt and is coming back to MMA.

I had this one funny mental image of Huerta getting kimura'd only to be surprised that he's not tapping, then to his amazement realizing that he's still got that "heart"... and that being what got him back into MMA, instead of thinking that his movie career was screwed.

All I know re: Kenny Florian and de la Grotte is that it's nothing between them, it's tensions with Kenny's brother.

In Trigg's case, looks like he'll be given at least one more fight.

[weemadando]

Is anyone else wondering re: Kenny Florian what would happen if he went to Greg Jackson and was able to pick up that gameplanning and even some of GSPs wrestling?

And also - has anyone else been watching season 2 of Bully Beatdown? The first ep of that was priceless for the look of "the bully's" face when they revealed he'd be facing Eddie Alvarez. This fantastic look of "oh man, I've seen him fight before, I am soooo fucked."

[Edward Yee]

Is anyone else wondering re: Kenny Florian what would happen if he went to Greg Jackson and was able to pick up that gameplanning and even some of GSPs wrestling?

The recounting I've heard is that he did try the gameplan... but without GSP's athleticism (or Vaseline), couldn't successfully execute.

And also - has anyone else been watching season 2 of Bully Beatdown? The first ep of that was priceless for the look of "the bully's" face when they revealed he'd be facing Eddie Alvarez. This fantastic look of "oh man, I've seen him fight before, I am soooo fucked."

*chuckle* I remember the story about one of the bullies being pissed at the producers backstage... for his opponent being Andre Arlovski, and actually referring to him by name, as if he were already aware of Arlovski's reputation before the Affliction/Strikeforce losses. You would never know that this was the same Arlovski that got punked by Fedor and Brett Rogers, just from how Arlovski acts, looks, the whole nine yards even before the fight.

[weemadando]

The latest episode features Tony "The Gun" Bonello. Who actually gets knocked down by the "bully" in the kickboxing round. And then delivers a really quite illegal (under the amateur kickboxing rules they're using) headkick which results in a KTFO event.

I haven't seen the Arlovski ep yet, but really want to as it appears that they were having face a hambeast.

*edit* Watching the Arlovski ep now. Goddamn. That guy is a douche. And my god is he going to get nailed.

*edit 2* Does anything think that this show, crass as it may be could be a great intro to the mainstream of America for Fedor? Not to mention one of the most hideously, gloriously violent 20 minutes of television history?

*edit 3* The guy is smack-talking and getting in Arlovski's face in the staredown. And goddamn - reverse armbar. Love that. Mounted triangle. Also love that. I must say that it also never ceases to amaze me that the producers allow straight guillotines (as in not arm-in) the neck cranks these d-bags eat are horrific.... And a leglock. That's sambo for you. And a finish with a fast regulation armbar. Hambeast looks buggered. Arlovski looks like he's just having a nice day in the gym and hamming it up.

As for the striking round, Mayhem comes out with a fantastic line: "spoiler alert - he's not getting up."

[Edward Yee]

The latest episode features Tony "The Gun" Bonello. Who actually gets knocked down by the "bully" in the kickboxing round. And then delivers a really quite illegal (under the amateur kickboxing rules they're using) headkick which results in a KTFO event.

... *groan* Damn near "exposed" the show.

I haven't seen the Arlovski ep yet, but really want to as it appears that they were having face a hambeast.

*edit* Watching the Arlovski ep now. Goddamn. That guy is a douche. And my god is he going to get nailed.

*edit 2* Does anything think that this show, crass as it may be could be a great intro to the mainstream of America for Fedor? Not to mention one of the most hideously, gloriously violent 20 minutes of television history?

I want this show to exist as a publicity stunt for any fighter I personally favor... Fedor yes, but we need Gegard Mousasi and Lyoto Machida (if only to shut Tito Ortiz the fuck up*) on this show RIGHT THE HELL NOW.

If the actual fights were staged, I think Machida could "revert back" to his pre-2009 self this once -- to make it 10 minutes of his "bully" getting tooled even harder than Tito and Thiago Silva -- but somehow he, along with Mousasi and Fedor, don't look like they would treat it that way...

*edit 3* The guy is smack-talking and getting in Arlovski's face in the staredown. And goddamn - reverse armbar. Love that. Mounted triangle. Also love that.

I'm guessing that a mounted triangle is possible without being staged, although the only other time I've seen it done was in HBO's Generation Kill (when Rudy Reyes and Ray Person tussle).

I must say that it also never ceases to amaze me that the producers allow straight guillotines (as in not arm-in) the neck cranks these d-bags eat are horrific.... And a leglock. That's sambo for you. And a finish with a fast regulation armbar. Hambeast looks buggered. Arlovski looks like he's just having a nice day in the gym and hamming it up.

Hey, the man can use a break from what's troubled him in life lately. Those two losses made a lot of people forget what kind of awesome he can bring, and if he's able to retain that boxing training from Freddie Roach and integrate it into his MMA game?

As for the striking round, Mayhem comes out with a fantastic line: "spoiler alert - he's not getting up."

Good shit Pitbull, good shit.

* A recent Tito Ortiz video has him claiming that Machida pushed the pace against Silva/Evans due to being afraid of Ortiz, and compared Machida to a pussy, as well as making quotation fingers regarding Machida's winning by "elusiveness." *Ortiz eye roll*

[weemadando]

My understanding (from interviews with Jason Miller etc) is that the Bully Beatdown formula has guys who are well aware that they're going to get the shit kicked out of them and are usually at least part-time actors to boot (they are in LA after all) signing up for it like you get for any other reality show.

The grappling round is realistic (speaking as a BJJ guy here) - all the moves are entirely reasonable given the skill sets and the fact that we see armbars so commonly is exactly what gives it away. A new guy at a BJJ class will get armbarred non-stop by EVERYONE until he learns that you can't push someone off you with an arm without it happening. As for the mounted triangle - I've seen a few of them now, they're rare, but if you are in a really high mount on someone then it's one of the many options you have. And if you've already armbarred someone a few times, you might as well mix it up for the crowd.

The striking round is also quite authentic. They MMA guys are without a doubt going easy on them and they have some definite restrictions on what's allowed - no knees or elbows and no head-kicks which, combined with the standing 8 count rule makes me suspect that they're using some amateur kick-boxing rules. As for Bonello's knockdown "nearly exposing the show" - it's the first time I've seen the MMA guy in any real danger, and in this case if the guy was indeed a college ice hockey player he probably has been trading fists for a quite some time and can deliver them properly.

As for the show being a "work". Of course it fucking is, people aren't going to tune in to watch bully's win and the fighter's sure as shit aren't going to sign up if they're at any real risk. I just enjoy it because it's an amusing bit of grappling and striking that I can watch weekly with some good commentary and ridiculous interviews:
"In a game of happy-grab-ass would you want to go first or second?"

[The Spartan]

And, no surprise, Kimbo got pinned to the ground and then smacked on the head until the ref called the fight on since he couldn't defend himself.

I liked how Dana White pointed out that the hits were, in his words, like getting hit by his daughter.

Edit: though I should hasten to add that I think Nelson played it smart. No need to exhaust yourself beating the fuck out of someone if the
rules say that demonstrating that he can't defend himself means you win.

Edit 2: not to mention there's no reason to injure someone in that situation.

[Darth Fanboy]

That was embarassing, I tuned in to the show for the first time in a long time just to see if Kimbo was any good and he sucked hardcore.

[weemadando]

Nelson did exactly what I expected -take him down, get him in an embarrassing position (seriously in BJJ, if someone gets you in a crucifix you'll be hearing about it for the next week or two) and then just keep hitting him until the ref has no option but to stop it.

No point going for a sub as Kimbo can power out of that. And no point going for big strikes, because that's just creating space - and if you are Big Country, then keeping low and smothering while tapping away is going to be just as effective as posturing up for a big shot.

[aerius]

Nelson must've been watching film of the James Thompson fight, cause he knew to work the crucifix as soon as he got Slice down. It was pathetic, get Kimbo down and he's totally helpless, other than kicking off the cage he doesn't even try to turn, buck, or do anything to get Nelson off him, nothing. It was one of the saddest fights I've ever seen, I've never seen anyone get stuck in a crucifix that many times in one fight.

[weemadando]

And fuck whatever Dana says, let's look at the outcome of that fight.

Rnd 2 stoppage.

Nelson is healthy.

Kimbo looked like a bag of shit on the ground.

I fail to see how this was anything other than a perfectly planned and executed fight for Nelson. Give that man his Whopper.

[Edward Yee]

With no pickles!

LOL at Machida [url=http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/10/2/10 ... achida-pre]claiming (first video) "I was so focused on Rashad's mistakes I made a small mistake, a huge mistake, I took advantage of that." Love the extra camera angles, by the way.

[Solauren]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Kembo Slice sucks in a true MMA environment.

He lost to a guy, that for all intense and purposes, just layed on him. Worse yet, he let it happen.

That fight was sad. Sad, sad, sad.

I'd make a joke about 'Slice getting submissive when big guys get him on the ground, but hey, he's a joke enough already.

[weemadando]

He lost to a guy, that for all intense and purposes, just layed on him. Worse yet, he let it happen.

Crucifix position isn't a dude laying on you. Crucifix position is a guy trapping on of your arms using his legs and then locking your other arm up using one of his arms and his head.

It's way more embarrassing (as it's a really difficult position for the aggressor to establish if there is much resistance) and WAAAAAAAY harder to get out of than a guy just lying on you. And this was a top crucifix too - not a traditional crucifix (which is a backmount).

[Edward Yee]

Not one mention of what happened to Demico Rogers?

Also, Cerrone had two rounds, Henderson had two rounds... who did you give the deciding (apparently first) round to?

[weemadando]

I've got a day off this week which will be spent with my best friend from Tassie watching Dream, WEC, TUF and Bully Beatdown. It'll be awesome. I'll post my comments during/after that event.

[Edward Yee]

This past week's episode of TUF seems to be somewhat important, due to what happens to Demico Rogers, that led to quite a bit of claims affirming its "reality" (that it wasn't the product of reality TV editing) from both Abe Wagner and Zak Jensen of Team Rampage, and seems to have become a turning point in terms of how the coaches appear.

WEC 43 if you can catch a view of it, the main (Donald Cerrone vs. Ben Henderson for the interim lightweight championship)'s reportedly a war, and DREAM is... DREAM.

[weemadando]

Demico Rogers was outclassed on the ground by a seriously good grappler. Nothing to be ashamed of. Unless you're an border-line psychopath with insecurity and inferiority complexes like Rampage.

[Edward Yee]

And OH, how it has gotten worse this week... I'll leave the fight itself unspoiled, but... Wes Shivers (of episode 2 infamy) 'defending' Rampage after the fight, paraphrased: "He's a fighter, not a coach"



From Rampage's site by way of BloodyElbow.com:

Rashad acts so fake and cocky and he wants to act like he cares more about my fighter than I do and brag about how he's a better coach than I am. But I tried to explain to him that I'm not a coach and I won't be coaching after my fighting career, like he might.

We have seen nothing to disprove Rashad's assertions to this effect...

The show is called the Ultimate Fighter, not the Ultimate Coach. Rashad is so full of himself, even though he just got knocked the hell out by Machida. It was the worst showing of his fight career. Now that he is a one and done champion he thinks that the show is about him.

No, the titular Ultimate Fighter is supposed to be one of the guys being coached, that's why you don't see Rashad being physical for much of the show... "worst showing of his fight career" aside -- let's give Rampage that much -- the Machida loss gave Rashad the first-hand experience with which to best console Rogers!

Said "seriously good" grappler (Brendan Schaub) has also been talking down Team Rampage's coaching, i.e. Zak Jensen not being the first to get choked out because of a "no tapping" rule... even in practice, and suggesting that "maybe Rampage just isn't aware of submissions like that [anaconda choke]," and he's not the only fighter this season to be opening up about Rampage's shortcomings.

[Edward Yee]

Oh, and this is gold:

Shogun will knock out him in the 3rd round for sure. Shogun is going to be the unique guy to show the world how to beat Lyoto. Everyone will learn how to beat Machida so on

Me: Or he could look like Dida against Katsunori Kikuno