Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Dartzap »

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish past

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's vitriolic attacks on the Jewish world hide an astonishing secret, evidence uncovered by The Daily Telegraph shows.

A photograph of the Iranian president holding up his identity card during elections in March 2008 clearly shows his family has Jewish roots.

A close-up of the document reveals he was previously known as Sabourjian – a Jewish name meaning cloth weaver.

The short note scrawled on the card suggests his family changed its name to Ahmadinejad when they converted to embrace Islam after his birth.

The Sabourjians traditionally hail from Aradan, Mr Ahmadinejad's birthplace, and the name derives from "weaver of the Sabour", the name for the Jewish Tallit shawl in Persia. The name is even on the list of reserved names for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior.

Experts last night suggested Mr Ahmadinejad's track record for hate-filled attacks on Jews could be an overcompensation to hide his past.

Ali Nourizadeh, of the Centre for Arab and Iranian Studies, said: "This aspect of Mr Ahmadinejad's background explains a lot about him.

"Every family that converts into a different religion takes a new identity by condemning their old faith.

"By making anti-Israeli statements he is trying to shed any suspicions about his Jewish connections. He feels vulnerable in a radical Shia society."

A London-based expert on Iranian Jewry said that "jian" ending to the name specifically showed the family had been practising Jews.

"He has changed his name for religious reasons, or at least his parents had," said the Iranian-born Jew living in London. "Sabourjian is well known Jewish name in Iran."

A spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London said it would not be drawn on Mr Ahmadinejad's background. "It's not something we'd talk about," said Ron Gidor, a spokesman.

The Iranian leader has not denied his name was changed when his family moved to Tehran in the 1950s. But he has never revealed what it was change from or directly addressed the reason for the switch.

Relatives have previously said a mixture of religious reasons and economic pressures forced his blacksmith father Ahmad to change when Mr Ahmadinejad was aged four.

The Iranian president grew up to be a qualified engineer with a doctorate in traffic management. He served in the Revolutionary Guards militia before going on to make his name in hardline politics in the capital.

During this year's presidential debate on television he was goaded to admit that his name had changed but he ignored the jibe.

However Mehdi Khazali, an internet blogger, who called for an investigation of Mr Ahmadinejad's roots was arrested this summer.

Mr Ahmadinejad has regularly levelled bitter criticism at Israel, questioned its right to exist and denied the Holocaust. British diplomats walked out of a UN meeting last month after the Iranian president denounced Israel's 'genocide, barbarism and racism.'

Benjamin Netanyahu made an impassioned denunciation of the Iranian leader at the same UN summit. "Yesterday, the man who calls the Holocaust a lie spoke from this podium," he said. "A mere six decades after the Holocaust, you give legitimacy to a man who denies the murder of six million Jews while promising to wipe out the State of Israel, the State of the Jews. What a disgrace. What a mockery of the charter of the United Nations."

Mr Ahmadinejad has been consistently outspoken about the Nazi attempt to wipe out the Jewish race. "They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above God, religions and the prophets," he declared at a conference on the holocaust staged in Tehran in 2006.
And remarkably, its not the Onion!

I suppose this is mildly similar to Republicans frothing at the mouth over gay issues.

Don't tell me - everyone knew this allready? :oops:
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Big Orange »

Not that remarkable - Luftwaffe Field Marshall Erhard Milch had a Jewish dad (strangely mirroring Werner Klemperer from Hogan's Heroes).
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Tribun »

Pretty stupid of him to hold his ID card into the camera when he's trying to hide this fact. But what else can we expect from his kind of people?
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by CJvR »

LOL! Perhaps his fellow Jihadists will deport his Sionist ass to Israel. Im sure the Israelis would be eager to welcome a long lost relative back from the diaspora.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Darth Yan »

what a hypocritical bastard. It's like Strom thurmand hating black people only to happily have a child with a black woman
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Bluewolf »

Oh dear, what hypocrisy. Its funny how it is always the people who proclaim their dislike something who are the ones who are/do that something.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Teebs »

While amusing, I'm not so sure it's hypocritical. Would he have a problem with Jews who converted to Islam?
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Tanasinn »

I wonder what affect this will have on keeping the illegitimate Ahmadinejad presidency going in face of the doubtless-well-remembered fraud on his behalf?
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

No, Islam has no prejudice against those who have converted from Judaism, at least in principle, and legally he would remain eligible for the Presidency in Iran.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Straha »

Ahem.

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Some important things to note:

1. Mahmoud's father (at least) was a Muslim, and Mahmoud himself has always been a Muslim, an intensely devout one at that.

2. Iran has a tradition of being relatively tolerant of Jews (especially so, considering its neighbors.) So merely saying that Mahmoud's grand-father (or great-grandfather) was Jewish wont get much political traction. Moreover, I very much doubt anyone is going to care much in the long run about this.

3. Ahmadinejad isn't an anti-semite. He's an anti-Zionist. There is a significant difference between the two in that one wants to kill all the Jews, and the other merely wants to destroy the state of Israel, killing all the Jews there if it has to.

Also, I'm pretty sure this (the name change) was known before, come to think of it. There were plenty of name changes during the White Revolution, and I think I saw something to this effect before. If it wasn't known (and frankly, I never much cared for Ahmadinejad's family's history) then all that really matters is that the rumours about his life, especially during the 80s, suddenly become a lot less implausible.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Straha »

I was right.

First page.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Darth Yan »

he might not want to kill jews, but his denial of the holocaust is still vomit inducing.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Ekiqa »

The Daily Telegraph is not that reliable a source of information. It isjust a tabloid.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ish-family
Ahmadinejad has no Jewish roots

Rumours that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's family converted to Islam from Judaism are false. In fact, they are proud Shias

In June 2005, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's meteoric rise from mayor of Tehran to president of one of the most influential countries in the Middle East took everyone by surprise. One of the main reasons for the astonishment was that so little was known about him.

One recently published claim about his background comes from an article in the Daily Telegraph. Entitled "Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish past", it claims that his family converted to Islam after his birth. The claim is based on a number of arguments, a key one being that his previous surname was Sabourjian which "derives from weaver of the sabour, the name for the Jewish tallit shawl in Persia".

Professor David Yeroshalmi, author of The Jews of Iran in the 19th century and an expert on Iranian Jewish communities, disputes the validity of this argument. "There is no such meaning for the word 'sabour' in any of the Persian Jewish dialects, nor does it mean Jewish prayer shawl in Persian. Also, the name Sabourjian is not a well-known Jewish name," he stated in a recent interview. In fact, Iranian Jews use the Hebrew word "tzitzit" to describe the Jewish prayer shawl. Yeroshalmi, a scholar at Tel Aviv University's Center for Iranian Studies, also went on to dispute the article's findings that the "-jian" ending to the name specifically showed the family had been practising Jews. "This ending is in no way sufficient to judge whether someone has a Jewish background. Many Muslim surnames have the same ending," he stated.

Upon closer inspection, a completely different interpretation of "Sabourjian" emerges. According to Robert Tait, a Guardian correspondent who travelled to Ahmadinejad's native village in 2005, the name "derives from thread painter – sabor in Farsi – a once common and humble occupation in the carpet industry in Semnan province, where Aradan is situated". This is confirmed by Kasra Naji, who also wrote a biography of Ahmadinejad and met his family in his native village. Carpet weaving or colouring carpet threads are not professions associated with Jews in Iran.

According to both Naji and Tait, Ahmadinejad's father Ahmad was in fact a religious Shia, who taught the Quran before and after Ahmadinejad's birth and their move to Tehran. So religious was Ahmad Sabourjian that he bought a house near a Hosseinieh, a religious club that he frequented during the holy month of Moharram to mourn the martyrdom of Imam Hossein.

Moreover, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's mother is a Seyyede. This is a title given to women whose family are believed to be direct bloodline descendants of Prophet Muhammad. Male members are given the title of Seyyed, and include prominent figures such as Iran's supreme leader Ali Khamenei. In Judaism, this is equivalent to the Cohens, who are direct descendants of Aaron, the brother of Moses. One has to be born into a Seyyed family: the title is never given to Muslims by birth, let alone converts. This makes it impossible for Ahmadinejad's mother to have been a Jew. In fact, she was so proud of her lineage that everyone in her native village of Aradan referred to her by her Islamic title, Seyyede.

The reason that Ahmadinejad's father changed his surname has more to do with the class struggle in Iran. When it became mandatory to adopt surnames, many people from rural areas chose names that represented their professions or that of their ancestors. This made them easily identifiable as townfolk. In many cases they changed their surnames upon moving to Tehran, in order to avoid snobbery and discrimination from residents of the capital.

The Sabourjians were one of many such families. Their surname was related to carpet-making, an industry that conjures up images of sweatshops. They changed it to Ahmadinejad in order to help them fit in. The new name was also chosen because it means from the race of Ahmad, one of the names given to Muhammad.

According to Ahmadinejad's relatives the new name emphasised the family's piety and their dedication to their religion and its founder. This is something that the president and his relatives in Tehran and Aradan have maintained to the present day. Not because they are trying to deny their past, but because they are proud of it.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

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Darth Yan wrote:he might not want to kill jews, but his denial of the holocaust is still vomit inducing.
There's actually a theory floating around (published most notably in The Ayatollah Begs to Differ) that says Ahmadinejad is being a savvy political player here, and doesn't actually believe what he's saying (he is a Ph.D. after all... even if it is in Traffic Management.) Here's how it goes:

First, by denying the Holocaust he taps into a massive current of anti-semitism/anti-zionism and gives himself quite a bit of popularity in the Arab world.

Second, it destroys European 'face'.
Ahmadinejad says to Europe, "The holocaust didn't happen. And Israel if a phony state."
Europe then turns to the Middle East and very publicly says, "Yes, it did."
Ahmadinejad replies, "Oh come now, you surely couldn't have done this! You're the 'bastion of civilization'!"
Europe responds, "Yes, we did. We killed Six Million Jews, and millions of other ethnic groups as well!"
Ahmadinejad retorts, "No! Six Million! Preposterous. Surely this is just a Zionist myth to help explain why Israel needs to exist."
Europe then gets madly, incoherently angry and declares, "Yes, we killed them, we drove them in cattle cars to extermination pits where they were gassed alive and then burned en masse. We were horrible horrific butchers, and we created Israel in part to make up for our barbarism and to give the Jews a safe land of their own where they would not have to worry about us revoking their right to live again!"

In short, not only does he play the popular political themes in the Arab world (which no Arab leader dares do himself) but he baits the West into delineating its own horrific history and proving every part of it point by point while, at the same time, it tries to argue that Iran cannot be trusted to have Nuclear Weapons.


I don't know if I buy the theory, but it's a neat one. And it fits (more or less) with the byzantine rules of Persian hospitality.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Zac Naloen »

The Daily Telegraph is not that reliable a source of information. It isjust a tabloid.


The Daily Telegraph is one of the last broadsheets left in the UK...

It was just wrong in this instance it seems.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Ryan Thunder »

Straha wrote:
Darth Yan wrote:he might not want to kill jews, but his denial of the holocaust is still vomit inducing.
There's actually a theory floating around (published most notably in The Ayatollah Begs to Differ) that says Ahmadinejad is being a savvy political player here, and doesn't actually believe what he's saying (he is a Ph.D. after all... even if it is in Traffic Management.) Here's how it goes:
Let me know when he actually states that he doesn't believe his own rhetoric.
In short, not only does he play the popular political themes in the Arab world (which no Arab leader dares do himself) but he baits the West into delineating its own horrific history and proving every part of it point by point while, at the same time, it tries to argue that Iran cannot be trusted to have Nuclear Weapons.
Great. Now I want to obliterate him for using such a massive tu quoque fallacy.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

To note, this isn't the first time the West has been easily drawn into believing absolutely absurd and stupid hoaxes about Iran. Remember the article claiming that the Jews of Iran were now forced to wear yellow Stars of David, which stayed strong for several weeks until the Jewish member of the Majlis was interviewed?
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Teebs »

Ekiqa wrote:The Daily Telegraph is not that reliable a source of information. It isjust a tabloid.
Actually the Daily Telegraph is the last literal broadsheet in England. The other broadsheets have moved to tabloid size (obviously they're still considered the quality papers though). As it is, I don't think the Daily Telegraph can be said to be of any lower quality than the Times, Guardian and Independent (the other 'broadsheets'). It is the most rightwing of them though.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Darth Yan »

don't they have Melanie Phillips as a columnist? If so, I don't trust them as a source.
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Dartzap »

Darth Yan wrote:don't they have Melanie Phillips as a columnist? If so, I don't trust them as a source.
Shes writes for the Daily Mail, not Telegraph. :wink:
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Re: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has an ironic skeleton in his closet

Post by Darth Yan »

oh. good. She's a complete hack and no real newspaper would hire her. Glad to see the telegraph has some sense.
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