StarGate Universe premiere 2 Oct (spoilers)

[Themightytom]

One thing I found curious about this was how few stargates were detected. Is that perhaps the limit of the Destiny's sensors for detecting them? Because on standard power, the Destiny can surely dial across a whole galaxy.

I thought I remembered Rush saying something like "there are 3 Stargates in range". I was under the impression that Destiny doesn't have much power reserves left, so dialing "long-distance" might be out of the question. Another possibility is that the ship detected only stargates where they could find their needed resources. I don't have the script on-hand, but Rush seemed to input their needs into the ship and the ship made a list of stops where they can get what they need.

On another note, if they were able to get a fix on what galaxy they're in, couldn't they use the ancient stones to tell the SGC their location and get supplied via an 8-chevron dialing from home? They might not be able to get home that way, but they could at least get food, water, and Lou Diamond Phillips.

According to the graphic, Destiny is REALLY far out, and given the fact that they needed a planet sized power station to dial the Destiny I doubt they can pull off an answer that simply. They needed a ZPM jsut to reach atlantis which is comparatively next door.
A ZPM charged ship might be possible as long as they were willing to committ one for presumably a long trip. The FTL employed by the destiny seems like it would be inferior, or they'd still be using it on Atlantis or the Auroras.

Re: the damage. That was a nice touch. beyond the immediate sense of desperation we get about the evacuees, we also get to wonder how the damage happened. is there another icarus planet in one of the other galaxies? can they use it to get home? Are the aliens going to to try to take Destiny again? Were the ancients stupid enough to send Destiny plowing through the ori galaxy?

I don't know if any of that will play out as SG:U is supposed to be a character driven show and may not focus on grand allainces etc.

I still don't forgive them for wasting the ninth chevron on such a stupid purpose.

[CaptJodan]

The FTL employed by the destiny seems like it would be inferior, or they'd still be using it on Atlantis or the Auroras.

I have to agree. I'm not sure I recall just how far out Rush said they were, or if it was even a set value that he gave, but it seems to me that if you have the galactic hyperdrive even somewhat similar to what Atlantis or the Asgard have, the ship should have gotten even farther out, given the time it's had out there.

I still don't forgive them for wasting the ninth chevron on such a stupid purpose.

I agree. The final Chevron should really have been reserved for something more spectacular than the Destiny. It seems to me the 8th could have gotten them there just as well (it is an area code, after all), but would still need massive amounts of power to do so.

[Anguirus]

What else would they have used the ninth chevron for? Considering that you can literally think yourself into heaven on this show, I have a hard time imagining what else "more spectacular" would fly.

I think they made the right call...tied it into some OLD Ancient tech. Logically, the intended destination of the ninth chevron needs to be older or at least contemporaneous with the first Stargates ever built, since they all have nine, and it needs to be THEORETICALLY dialable from any Stargate. It's also something we have not seen before...we know the Ancients are old, but even when they split from the Ori they had uber-tech and none of them ever seemed to be dirty or hungry ("looks like a king" as Eric Idle might say).

*Keep in mind I could be talking out of my ass because I gave up on SGA pretty early on. Still, the Ancients weren't even in the Pegasus Galaxy until their ubertech days.

[NecronLord]

The FTL employed by the destiny seems like it would be inferior, or they'd still be using it on Atlantis or the Auroras.

I have to agree. I'm not sure I recall just how far out Rush said they were, or if it was even a set value that he gave, but it seems to me that if you have the galactic hyperdrive even somewhat similar to what Atlantis or the Asgard have, the ship should have gotten even farther out, given the time it's had out there.

Atlantis with its speeds could easily travel a trillion light years in a mere thousand years (it could make three million a day in Enemy at the Gate), assuming adequate supplies. Destiny's FTL doesn't need to be any faster.

It could be, but there's nothing to say it is.

[NecronLord]

The FTL employed by the destiny seems like it would be inferior, or they'd still be using it on Atlantis or the Auroras.

I have to agree. I'm not sure I recall just how far out Rush said they were,

Billions of light years.

I still don't forgive them for wasting the ninth chevron on such a stupid purpose.

I agree. The final Chevron should really have been reserved for something more spectacular than the Destiny. It seems to me the 8th could have gotten them there just as well (it is an area code, after all), but would still need massive amounts of power to do so.

Logically, there's two things it could be - an additional distance calculation; reasonable enough. There's only thirty something chevrons. Ida (four million or so LY away) and Pegasus are distinct enough, so really they can only cover the local group at best. Going further must require an additional calculation.

Perhaps it's actually to lock onto an object moving on a given course, Destiny has moved quite a bit since that gate address was entered - though it's likely that as the Atlantis database automatically updates and recalculates stellar drift, it also had some detail in it to automatically adjust for Destiny's current position.

This makes me wonder, actually, how far away the Ori galaxy is? If it's far enough out (and it would seem to be beyond eight-chevron address range, given that they had to take a ship, (though it's possible the Ori galaxy lacks a network of stargates of its own, and they were only dispatching Priors from Celestus itself or something), they may have nine-chevron capacity. It would be neat to see ex-priors, Tomin et al, helping if the Destiny ever gets resupplied.

[Revy]

Question - how in the hell did they manage to dial, as the 9th chevron, the POINT OF ORIGIN FOR EARTH?

So I finally saw this (I live in the UK). No sex scene, which was fine by me. Didn't like the first episode because of the jumping all over the place. The camerawork, pacing and layout of the second episode felt much better to me.

But really, I thought that all stargates had 38 chevrons shared with all other stargates (in the galactic network) and one unique chevron, the point of origin for that planet. This was actually a major plot point for the Gate movie - Daniel Jackson couldn't get the team home because he didn't recognise the 7th symbol he used to dial out in the first place, because Abydos had it's own unique point of origin symbol. Only when he realises this is he able to pick out the correct chevron and use it at the end of the movie to send Jack and co. back home.

So when Eli figures that they have the address wrong, and says the 9th chevron address was meant to be dialled from earth, they dial the earth point of origin symbol as the final chevron, and it actually displays it on their computer screen. Am I missing something? How does a gate on another planet have the unique gate symbol for earth? Surely the only gate in the universe to have the earth point of origin symbol is the earth gate itself? I mean that gate must have its own point of origin symbol right? So what, does it have two point of origin chevrons on it, that planets and earths, and no one noticed?

[Kodiak]

Question - how in the hell did they manage to dial, as the 9th chevron, the POINT OF ORIGIN FOR EARTH?

They decide that it's not an address, but it's a 9-digit code which unlocks the protocols for dialing Destiny.

[Revy]

My point is that they still have to dial in the code on the Stargate itself. The chevrons have to physically lock into place, they even made a point of showing us that earlier. So, what is the physical point of origin chevron for earth doing on a Stargate on another planet entirely, when we know that point of origin chevrons are *unique* to every Stargate? There should be no way the Stargate we saw could dial, as a 7th, 8th OR 9th chevron, the earth point of origin, because it shouldn't be physically on the gate! Each gate gets ONE unique symbol, and that is it's own. That planet should have 38 symbols found on every other gate, and one unique to itself, just as the earth gate has 38 symbols identical to all other gates plus one unique to itself - it's point of origin.

The point of origin chevron for earth has no business being on any Stargate other than earths, and there's no way that gate could have had it without bumping one of the regular 38 symbols used for conventional dialling. That address should have been physically impossible to dial, as the 9th chevron they typed in couldn't have been present on that gate. The whole problem and soloution just makes no sense, other than for Eli to come up with in a very short space of time and for Rush to have not thought of it before. I'm not surprised he never thought of it before, because the earth gate symbol can't be on that gate!

[CaptJodan]

Atlantis with its speeds could easily travel a trillion light years in a mere thousand years (it could make three million a day in Enemy at the Gate), assuming adequate supplies. Destiny's FTL doesn't need to be any faster.

It could be, but there's nothing to say it is.

That's my point. This FTL seems slower than the intergalactic drives we've seen in Atlantis and SG-1. As it seems now, either the Destiny took a few hundreds of thousands of years off in its travels, or the drive is slower than (presumably later and more advanced) intergalactic drives seen in the other series'.

We'll probably have an opportunity to determine how fast the drive is at some point in this series, though.

[NecronLord]

Question - how in the hell did they manage to dial, as the 9th chevron, the POINT OF ORIGIN FOR EARTH?

Either it's a code - as Eli suggests - or perhaps nine chevron addresses must use the region's dominant gate.

Twenty one light years is very close. There's two systems between twenty one and twenty two light years. Even Abydos is likely further away; it could be that this region is within the Earth dialling zone, as a 'third' stargate.

But really, I thought that all stargates had 38 chevrons shared with all other stargates (in the galactic network) and one unique chevron, the point of origin for that planet. This was actually a major plot point for the Gate movie - Daniel Jackson couldn't get the team home because he didn't recognise the 7th symbol he used to dial out in the first place, because Abydos had it's own unique point of origin symbol. Only when he realises this is he able to pick out the correct chevron and use it at the end of the movie to send Jack and co. back home.

Yeah. They had unique symbols until now.

Points of Origin is a continuity thing - in seasons four and five the SGC should have been using a gate address (in the SGC) that looks like this:

Not:
- That's Ra's gate. The original Ancient gate was that one.

Similarly, the SGU intro should have had that symbol. Perhaps the planet they're on here's actually where Ra got the other gate from and it's nothing like Earth?

A couple other unique Points of Origin were shown early on:

Abydos.
Gamekeeper planet.

While others have been re-uses of standard glyphs.

I tend to assume each planet has a unique point of origin (except in this case obviously) and that, like the season four gate having the movie's point of origin, lack of original glyphs for every planet is a matter of production costs.

So what, does it have two point of origin chevrons on it, that planets and earths, and no one noticed?

That must be the case. Presumably that's why Eli, having just had his briefing fresh in his mind an hour or two ago, pointed out the obvious and said they should try the other origin glyph?

[Revy]

I guess. I have the episode recorded and I rewatched it, and yes the gate spins and locks in the 9th chevron, which connects, and we clearly see it is the earth gate symbol on the computer screen.

It just bugs me because the whole reason Daniel couldn't dial earth in the movie was because he expected to find the same 7th symbol on the abydos gate, and when he sees that it's not there, he doesn't know what to do. He says he cant get them home without the 7th symbol. The 7th symbol he needed was there, it was just the symbol for abydos, and not earth. The abydos gate did not have the earths point of origin symbol on it, and neither should any other gate save for the one they originally dialled.

I suppose you could say that the unique symbol on a gate can be used as the point of origin regardless of where the gate actually is, allowing you to move a gate and still dial out even though it's no longer where it originally was placed (thus explaining why there were two gates on earth that both had different point of origin symbols on them, yet both of which worked fine). But even so, a gate should still only have one unique symbol on it not found on any other gate, and the earth symbol shouldn't be on that planets gate.

In fact what makes this worse is that the point of origin symbol should have been the antarctic gate symbol, because that was the original earth gate, not the one Ra put there. And since this is the oldest of the old Ancient setups we know of, then doesn't it stand to reason that the 9 chevron secret code/address to reach the Destiny would have the *original* antarctic gate symbol point of origin in the address, not the symbol found on the gate Ra put there centuries later? The Ancients wouldn't have known their earth gate would get burried and that a Goa'uld would put a second gate on earth, so the 9 chevron address shouldn't use Ra's gate symbol in it at all!

Ehh, now I'm just getting confused.

[Anguirus]

Ehh, now I'm just getting confused.

It's ok, so are the writers.

In Stargate (1994) the Abydos and Earth gates didn't even have one symbol in common. That's obviously changed right quick on the show. However, they stuck with each gate having a unique point of origin, hence the Big Red Button on the DHD.

However, then they came up with the second Earth gate. If Carter and O'Neill had inspected it when they were accidentally zapped through it, they should have seen the PoO and figured it out. It is actually canon that Ra brought the "first" gate to Earth though? Because then, you're right, that makes two Gates with the Earth PoO. (They could have made up another PoO for the "second" Earth gate but didn't.)

However, there are various other wrinkles. Item 1: In "Children of the Gods," Daniel shows Teal'c the Earth symbol and he clearly recognizes it. He may have simply seen it on the Earth gate when he invaded the SGC, but would Apohis' First Prime really have remembered one obscure Point of Origin? Seems more likely he's seen it somewhere before. Item 2: In the second season opener, Daniel manages to dial out with Apophis' stargate because Apophis brought it to Earth orbit. So why does that gate dial out if it doesn't have Earth's PoO?

Considering these as well as the info for SGU, it seems like the Tau'ri symbol may be standard on Stargates, but it doesn't serve as the point of origin for them. Because Earth is special for several reasons on this show, why not throw in another?

[Themightytom]

The FTL employed by the destiny seems like it would be inferior, or they'd still be using it on Atlantis or the Auroras.

I have to agree. I'm not sure I recall just how far out Rush said they were, or if it was even a set value that he gave, but it seems to me that if you have the galactic hyperdrive even somewhat similar to what Atlantis or the Asgard have, the ship should have gotten even farther out, given the time it's had out there.

I still don't forgive them for wasting the ninth chevron on such a stupid purpose.

I agree. The final Chevron should really have been reserved for something more spectacular than the Destiny. It seems to me the 8th could have gotten them there just as well (it is an area code, after all), but would still need massive amounts of power to do so.

Actually I think Rush cited 78 million light years towards the last third of the pilot, i remember thinking "78? oh thats not much further than Voyager...OH.. when i realized it was million, not thousand.

it could have been billion if the graphic was to scale though

[Kodiak]

From the wiki page

A team of scientists and soldiers from the Icarus Base uncover the mysteries of the ninth chevron of the Stargate. As they are forced to evacuate when the base is under attack from an alien race, they end up on the Destiny, an Ancient ship, stranded several billion light years from Earth.

That's.... Pretty stinkin' far.

[NecronLord]

However, they stuck with each gate having a unique point of origin, hence the Big Red Button on the DHD.

Actually, you push all seven, the red button powers it up. The point of origin appears on the DHD too.

(They could have made up another PoO for the "second" Earth gate but didn't.)

They do. Carter points at a symbol on the DHD (I put it up above) and says "This symbol is unique, it must be the point of origin."

However, there are various other wrinkles. Item 1: In "Children of the Gods," Daniel shows Teal'c the Earth symbol and he clearly recognizes it. He may have simply seen it on the Earth gate when he invaded the SGC, but would Apohis' First Prime really have remembered one obscure Point of Origin?

The Tau'ri was something of a jaffa legend, being where humans (and thus Jaffa) came from. The notion is that there is some folk memory of it an icons related to it. Part of Teal'c's motivation for believing O'Neill actually can rescue the people captured by Apophis is that he comes from a legendary world.

Seems more likely he's seen it somewhere before. Item 2: In the second season opener, Daniel manages to dial out with Apophis' stargate because Apophis brought it to Earth orbit. So why does that gate dial out if it doesn't have Earth's PoO?

It had a normal DHD with it. Presumably it recalculates its position automatically either as a function of the DHD, or something Apophis did to modify it (it was on his assault ship, after all) as Destiny does.

Considering these as well as the info for SGU, it seems like the Tau'ri symbol may be standard on Stargates, but it doesn't serve as the point of origin for them. Because Earth is special for several reasons on this show, why not throw in another?

The problem with that is that the show has also shown a couple of unique points of origin - enough times to think it's normally a production-values thing.

[Darwin]

While I'm thinking of it,

Who the hell names a project 'Icarus', and then acts surprised when it fails spectacularly?

[JME2]

While I'm thinking of it,

Who the hell names a project 'Icarus', and then acts surprised when it fails spectacularly?

The IOA?

[NecronLord]

The same people who name a warship Apollo when the greek pantheon are their enemies?

[JME2]

The same people who name a warship Apollo when the greek pantheon are their enemies?

Good point.

[Themightytom]

The same people who name a warship Apollo when the greek pantheon are their enemies?

Good point.

no one listens to the experts

[Jon]

In terms of nitpicking symbols on the gate, wasn't it the case in the movie that the Earth stargate and Abydos gate had completely different symbols altogether, not just a unique/different Point of Origin symbol- which was then retconned in the series?

[NecronLord]

In terms of nitpicking symbols on the gate, wasn't it the case in the movie that the Earth stargate and Abydos gate had completely different symbols altogether, not just a unique/different Point of Origin symbol- which was then retconned in the series?

Indeed. But then, they were in different galaxies.

[Themightytom]

In terms of nitpicking symbols on the gate, wasn't it the case in the movie that the Earth stargate and Abydos gate had completely different symbols altogether, not just a unique/different Point of Origin symbol- which was then retconned in the series?

Indeed. But then, they were in different galaxies.

Eh thats easily explained, they could have been calculating based on how they thought the wormhole behaved and been completely talking out of their ass when they said "Somewhere in the Kalium galaxy" because honestly how would they even have known that, the MALP couldn't look up at stars or anything, it was inside a pyramid.

How the gate got to Cheyenne mountain well I will tell you...

::Throws flash bang grenade and fires grappling hook into ceiling.::

[JME2]

How the gate got to Cheyenne mountain well I will tell you...

::Throws flash bang grenade and fires grappling hook into ceiling.::

Heh.

On a side note, I've been thinking about Daniel's cameo in the travel tapes and how it appears to answer a nagging question: Why didn't Daniel join the Atlantis Expedition following the end of the Ori Crusade as he had originally planned to? The video states that the Icarus project began two years earlier; this would have been shortly after the events of The Ark of Truth. Furthermore, Rush stated that the 9-address symbol was located in Atlantis' Ancient Database, portions of which were brought back to Earth following the events of "The Siege" and "Avalon". If Daniel had been assisting on the project, he would have been consulting the Database excerpts. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who found the address. And while scanning, he probably came across the entries on Janus, realized their importance, and which led to his visit to Pegasus during "First Contact" and "The Lost Tribe".

Just a thought, anyway.

[Vympel]

The same people who name a warship Apollo when the greek pantheon are their enemies?

No, what Greek System Lords have they fought, apart from Ares (who we never saw) - and remember the Greeks hated Ares. Cronus was a Greek Titan, also hated. Apollo is a friendly god, the name's fine.