Nuclear batteries for all

[Azazal]

Well not really, but still pretty damn cool. Sadly, I foresee these not coming into use for the general public.

Tiny 'nuclear batteries' unveiled

Researchers have demonstrated a penny-sized "nuclear battery" that produces energy from the decay of radioisotopes.
As radioactive substances decay, they release charged particles that when properly harvested can create an electrical current.
Nuclear batteries have been in use for military and aerospace applications, but are typically far larger.
The University of Missouri team says that the batteries hold a million times as much charge as standard batteries.
They have developed it in an attempt to scale down power sources for the tiny devices that fall under the category of micro- and nano-electromechanical systems (Mems and Nems).
The means to power such devices has been a subject of study as vigorous as the development of the devices themselves.
Liquid solution
Nuclear batteries are an attractive proposition for many applications because the isotopes that power them can provide a useful amount of current for phenomenally long times - up to hundreds of years or more.
As a result, they have seen use in spacecraft that are fired far off into the cosmos. But for applications here on Earth, their size has limited their use.
The Missouri team, led by Jae Wan Kwon, employed a liquid semiconductor to capture and utilise the decay particles.
Most nuclear batteries use a solid semiconductor to harvest the particles, but the particles' extremely high energies means that the semiconductors suffer damage over time.
This means that to build a battery that can last as long as the isotope inside, they must be built larger.
The team's solution incorporates a liquid semiconductor, in which the particles can pass without causing damage. They are now working to further miniaturise the batteries.
And although the whole idea hinges on the use of radioactive materials, the devices are safe under normal operating conditions.
"People hear the word 'nuclear' and think of something very dangerous," Dr Jae said.
"However, nuclear power sources have already been safely powering a variety of devices, such as pacemakers, space satellites and underwater systems."

[sketerpot]

That's pretty clever, using liquid semiconductors so they don't have to worry about the radiation damaging the crystal structure of a more conventional semiconductor. These look like sweet batteries.

[PeZook]

Man, I always wanted to have an RTG power unit as a backup power source for my house, but nobody would let me actually buy one

Now it appears we can at least be able to power our flashlights when the apocalypse comes!

[Shinova]

Man how long would nuclear-powered flashlights last? Hundreds of years? You'd have to change the bulb before that.

[PeZook]

Man how long would nuclear-powered flashlights last? Hundreds of years? You'd have to change the bulb before that.

A LED light can be expected to have a lifetime of up to 50 000 hours at maximum brightness. This means it could operate continously for 5.7 years. If you only use your flashlight for four hours a day , the shiny parts would last 35 years.

You'd probably be torn apart by a deathclaw or die of dysentery after the apocalypse before you had to replace your flashlight

[Zixinus]

Wouldn't there still be some braking radiation? What elements would be used to power such batteries? What about the waste matter of these?

You'd probably be torn apart by a deathclaw or die of dysentery after the apocalypse before you had to replace your flashlight

Then that is a good flashlight.

[NecronLord]

I would like to know what kind of power it can put out.

[aerius]

Maybe there's hope for a nuclear car afterall! If the battery can put out enough power and it really lasts a million times longer than a regular battery, it should be able to power a car for the lifetime of the vehicle. If it can't produce that much power, a possibility would be to use it as the charger for a regular battery pack, the battery pack moves the car around while the nuclear battery keeps it topped up and ready to go. The car would be fueled for life from the factory.

[Starglider]

Maybe there's hope for a nuclear car afterall! If the battery can put out enough power and it really lasts a million times longer than a regular battery, it should be able to power a car for the lifetime of the vehicle.

Sadly not, given how much the concept of a 'dirty bomb' makes people hyperventilate. I'm sure the casing could be made pretty tough, but with millions of car crashes a year in the US alone, there would still be a fair number that manage to crack it open and spew radioisotopes around.

[une]

Maybe there's hope for a nuclear car afterall! If the battery can put out enough power and it really lasts a million times longer than a regular battery, it should be able to power a car for the lifetime of the vehicle.

Sadly not, given how much the concept of a 'dirty bomb' makes people hyperventilate. I'm sure the casing could be made pretty tough, but with millions of car crashes a year in the US alone, there would still be a fair number that manage to crack it open and spew radioisotopes around.

Maybe cars wouldn't be a good application of this technology, but could it be used in airplanes? They rarely crash, are operated by professionals and are inspected by maintenance crews on a regular basis.

[Zixinus]

Or simply not put them into your average idiot's hands? A car like this would be handy for a moon buggy for example.

Astronauts cover it up/hide it in a hole on some calmer part of the moon, go away for ten or twenty years but when they come back, they have a moon buggy still ready to go.

On the subject, what did happen to the original moon buggy used by the Apollo missions? I know that they didn't bring them back, but if someone lands near that site again, would they be able to put it back to use after some tweaking?

[PeZook]

On the subject, what did happen to the original moon buggy used by the Apollo missions? I know that they didn't bring them back, but if someone lands near that site again, would they be able to put it back to use after some tweaking?

They're still there. You can see one on pictures made by the LRO a while back.

Though I doubt they'd be in working condition after forty years: at the very least, you'd have to replace the batteries. And since batteries are the single most massive component of the buddies, it would make more sense to just bring a modern one with you.

[Steel]

As far as I know RTGs work by taking the energy released by the decay of the radioactive materials inside them and converting it into useful power. Theres no on off switch as such, it will be putting out X Watts all the time irrespective of whether or not you're actually trying to draw power, and otherwise that just comes out as heat or whatever. This means the useful lifetime of the battery is not determined by how many hours you use it for but how long ago it was assembled as the materials decay at constant rate per particle, so after one half life of the material you get out half the power.

It may have a million times the storage capacity of a normal battery, but it doesn't have the ability to regulate the output. Although with a million times the capacity running out of energy isn't really an issue, but the fact the output decays exponentially over time makes it useless after a certain point. You also get the problem of having to store surplus energy in capacitors or something in order to be able to output power when you want rather than all the time, and when the capacitors get full you get a little warm... Could mean you never have to de-ice your car in the morning ever again though.

[Zixinus]

it will be putting out X Watts all the time irrespective of whether or not you're actually trying to draw power, and otherwise that just comes out as heat or whatever.

You also get the problem of having to store surplus energy in capacitors or something in order to be able to output power when you want rather than all the time, and when the capacitors get full you get a little warm...

Then it might be useful for a computer that monitors the condition of the buggy and sends out a constant radio signal of its position.

Then again, at that rate, you might as well allow the buggy to be turned into a running probe, if you are willing to put a few instruments on it.

[PeZook]

Then again, at that rate, you might as well allow the buggy to be turned into a running probe, if you are willing to put a few instruments on it.

That or just use the RTGs heat to keep the computer in working order.

Of course, Steel's point is pretty valid especially for mundane applications like the flashlight. But as a power supplement for a home? Just have your fridge attached to the thing at all times, and use the surplus heat to help keept heating bills down. In summer, the ground can be used as a heat sink.

No more spoiled food during a power outage (or apocalypse!)

[Starglider]

But as a power supplement for a home? Just have your fridge attached to the thing at all times, and use the surplus heat to help keept heating bills down.

Radioisotopes are extremely expensive in bulk, and I doubt the liquid semiconductor would be cheap either, even if you could get over the OH NOES RADIATION TERRORISTS DIRTY BOMBS issue. So, specialist applications only.

[jegs2]

Imagine that military applications for such batteries may well be forthcoming over the next several years. My electronic components Soldiers must carry have a great deal of weight in batteries.

[Darth Wong]

Imagine that military applications for such batteries may well be forthcoming over the next several years. My electronic components Soldiers must carry have a great deal of weight in batteries.

Curiosity: just how much weight in batteries does the average soldier carry? How much electronic gear does he carry?

[Samuel]

Well, now I look like an idiot for saying this was one of the more impossible parts of Foundation.

As for public use, wouldn't this still be more expensive than conventional batteries?

[Sea Skimmer]

That or just use the RTGs heat to keep the computer in working order.

Of course, Steel's point is pretty valid especially for mundane applications like the flashlight. But as a power supplement for a home? Just have your fridge attached to the thing at all times, and use the surplus heat to help keept heating bills down. In summer, the ground can be used as a heat sink.

No more spoiled food during a power outage (or apocalypse!)

If you gave someone an RTG that could output enough power to run a fridge it’d have a couple pounds of radioactive dirty bomb material inside of it. Odds of that being allowed in the current day and age.. zero. It might even need to be more like several kilograms, since the best materials for making RTGs are also thermally unstable and will self vaporize if anything breaks so it is especially unsuited to use in the home. It'd be more realistic to take the thermocoulees used by RTGs to convert heat to power, and start installing them on everything you can so that waste heat from say the fridge condenser can be turned into electrical power. Work is already going ahead to do this on car exhausts for hybrids.

[PeZook]

If you gave someone an RTG that could output enough power to run a fridge it’d have a couple pounds of radioactive dirty bomb material inside of it. Odds of that being allowed in the current day and age.. zero. It might even need to be more like several kilograms, since the best materials for making RTGs are also thermally unstable and will self vaporize if anything breaks so it is especially unsuited to use in the home. It'd be more realistic to take the thermocoulees used by RTGs to convert heat to power, and start installing them on everything you can so that waste heat from say the fridge condenser can be turned into electrical power. Work is already going ahead to do this on car exhausts for hybrids.

Gah! You people and your realism.

You know, it's kind of funny that none of those fears seemed to exist in the 50s. Visions of the future from that era had everything powered by nukes: ford even had a concept study done on a nuclear-powered car.

[Darth Wong]

Gah! You people and your realism.

You know, it's kind of funny that none of those fears seemed to exist in the 50s. Visions of the future from that era had everything powered by nukes: ford even had a concept study done on a nuclear-powered car.

The 1950s was a truly goofy period. People were very optimistic about the future because they had seen so much recent progress, and they hadn't yet discovered the dark side of technology. Hell, even in the 1960s the average person still didn't really have a handle on what radiation could do to people. That's why all of the comics in the 1960s used radiation as a way to give people super-powers. Today, nobody would write that because we know it would just give you cancer and kill you.

[Sea Skimmer]

The US Army did serious work on a heavy tank powered by an open cycle nuclear turboshaft with the reactor in the bow, thinking in the 1950s was rather optimistic.


This shows the basic plan of the TV-1 70 ton version, with 14 inches of armor and a 105mm cannon. Expected reactor operating life was 500 hours. It'd basically be blowing core material in the air the entire time, just not so much as a Tory-II.

[PeZook]

Holy shit...and the driver is sitting right on it!

Optimism doesn't begin to cover this

[jegs2]

Imagine that military applications for such batteries may well be forthcoming over the next several years. My electronic components Soldiers must carry have a great deal of weight in batteries.

Curiosity: just how much weight in batteries does the average soldier carry? How much electronic gear does he carry?

Really depends. If it's a "light infantry" Soldier, he has a heavy basic load that can be up to 100 lbs. over his body weight. If he is a radioman carrying a dismounted radio system, he has extra weight, inlcluding spare batteries. If he is a Force 21 Soldier, he has to carry the computer containing FBCB2 computer, spare batteries, along with basic load. It can get pretty heavy, though the effects are less for mechanized or Stryker Soldiers who can leave gear in their vehicles.