Looking Back on: Operation Flashpoint Cold War Crisis

[charlemagne]

However, the game has the fucking annoying OFP thing where when prone, the game limits how much you can look 'down' based on the angle you're lying on. What this means is you can shimmy along a rock and be unable to point downwards for some magical reason.

Oh yeah, I just played the first mission, crouched into one of the houses in the village and it did that to me while I was getting stuck on the doorframe. That really fucking sucks horse dick.

Apart from that, yeah, the game looks and runs really fine (8800 here, too). I'm still fighting the controls a bit, trying to find keys like "take out medi pack" and such while bleeding out. Pity none of my friends have 360's so I could borrow a controller But I guess I'll get used to it.

[Stark]

The most useful inventory buttons are f1 for binoz, f2 for bandage, and 2 for primary gun. I find the bleedout is pretty fucking slow, but then I'm playing on normal because I can't work out how to change the difficulty of a campaign in progress.

Also, the normal -> experienced difficulty step is stupid. You keep all the magical floating compass/weapon awareness/onscreen prompts, but you lose the one thing that was semi-realistic; knowing where your fucking guys are. It's near fucking impossible to find a downed guy on experienced, because you can't hear where they are, can't call them, can't see them, etc. But you still have all the ludicrous floating HUD waypoints. I don't get it; I wish it was Silent Hunter-esque 'tweak your realism' stuff instead of the three presets. I'm happy to not have respawning guys and onscreen indicators, but sorry I want to actally know where my idiots are. Even if it only pinged them at short range or when they used the radio would be fine.

[charlemagne]

Yeah, I wonder why it's too difficult to put in an option to turn the compass thing off. It kinda defeats the whole open world approach if you just end up jogging from waypoint to waypoint after all. I chose "experienced" because respawning guys just seems too arcade-y for a game like this, but I'd love to lose the waymarkers, too.

It's the same thing as in Oblivion or any MMORPG these days, there's this huge world but devs think that players hate not being railroaded, so why not just build tube "levels" so no poor gamer can get lost instead of building that huge world, then implementing a tube to herd players through? They can put in all the help they want, but why the hell not make it optional?

[weemadando]

AAAARGH.

I just tried to play the first mission and my god that command interface is awful. The numbers might have been unwieldy, but at least it didn't lock me out of doing EVERY THING ELSE.

The sprint key seems to make you go the same speed.

Where's time acceleration? If I have to foot slog somewhere then I don't want to have to wait through it. Which makes it even more annoying when I inevitably die as I have to foot slog over to the next objective again.

I'm seriously considering plugging a pad into teh PC to play this.

Also - STRAK (and any others who can have a feasible ping) shall we try to co-op this campaign some so we don't just mimic guys pounding nails through our dicks?

[Laughing Mechanicus]

Even with the noted problems I am still looking forward to this for PC. The control problems sound annoying but I'm hoping I can use some scripts to emulate the control pad behaviour for the keyboard controls - I will give it a shot with a 360 controller but I never feel as accurate with a control stick as I do with a mouse.

I am primarily interested in it for coop play - could one of you kind chaps tell me what options it offers in that regard? Is it full campaign coop, stand-alone missions, custom missions etc...? Also how does it handle death and squad command in coop modes? Is there a seagull-cam?

If Amazon weren't such cursed muppets I would already have my copy, but now I may have to wait until next week to get it. I suppose I could always go an buy it from a shop and return the Amazon copy to the shop when it eventually arrives... tempting.

Anyway, if this game is successful it would be cool to see some continuation of the series - the great thing about the "Flashpoint" idea (though I'm sure Codemasters will casually discard this) is that it allows you to set the game whenever and wherever you want - 1950's jungle warfare? 1970's arctic warfare? There are lots of cool possible combinations meaning you are freed from the "FPS must either be WW2, Vietnam or modern" cliché. They could go totally mental and make it so that maybe we don't play as the US Army for a change? Crazy I know.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Also, the normal -> experienced difficulty step is stupid. You keep all the magical floating compass/weapon awareness/onscreen prompts, but you lose the one thing that was semi-realistic; knowing where your fucking guys are. It's near fucking impossible to find a downed guy on experienced, because you can't hear where they are, can't call them, can't see them, etc. But you still have all the ludicrous floating HUD waypoints. I don't get it;

Every time you turn on the command menu, the indicators showing where you guys are come up - even on hardcore mode. I've been playing on hardcore mode and sometimes I lose track of my guys too so I just stop, turn on the menu to find where everyone else is at and then turn off the menu. There's also no constant compass in hardcore mode too. But there's one when you turn on the call support menu. So if I need to find my bearings, I stop and toggle on my call support menu to get the compass. The other alternative is to pull out your map since it'll give the location and direction of you and your guys on the map.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Yeah, I wonder why it's too difficult to put in an option to turn the compass thing off. It kinda defeats the whole open world approach if you just end up jogging from waypoint to waypoint after all. I chose "experienced" because respawning guys just seems too arcade-y for a game like this, but I'd love to lose the waymarkers, too.

I don't know why the developers decided not to make the individual HUD features toggle-able in the options panel. They did that for the original OFP but here, they just dumbed it down into three options. It's fine for me since I enjoy playing it on hardcore mode but I imagine it must be frustrating for players who want to play a difficultly level somewhere between any of those three options.

[Stark]

Aaron, I'm the first to cry 'hurf durf controllers are fine', but the PC version at least needs a lot of manual sensitivity tweaking to get it right with sticks (the 360 version should hopefully have console-standard variable sensitivity, especailly when aiming). I just reach for the mouse when I need to fight at long range... after trading my useless M16a4 for a Chinese marksman rifle of some kind.

The funniest thing about respawning dudes is you can just kill them all to change your weapon (or get an AT weapon etc) because they'll magically be back in no time. 8

EDIT - and really? I've only replayed mission 3 on experienced, but I guess I never looked backwards with the orders popup up. It's even more daft that they 'take it away' and then give it back. The weapon awareness is a similar thing; I don't want to know how much ammo is left, but I don't want to have to remember my fucking fire mode or ammo type either.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

EDIT - and really? I've only replayed mission 3 on experienced, but I guess I never looked backwards with the orders popup up. It's even more daft that they 'take it away' and then give it back. The weapon awareness is a similar thing; I don't want to know how much ammo is left, but I don't want to have to remember my fucking fire mode or ammo type either.

I guess it's more "realistic" in the sense that if you want to know where your teammates are, you'd have to take a moment and look around. Similarly, in real life, you'd have to remember your fire mode or take a moment to look at your weapon. Unfortunately, this "pausing to do things" in the game doesn't work in many circumstances since there are some commands you want to give while on the run. And not to mention, it can get real annoying too.

[Stark]

Yeah, and there's no 'check weapon' function. I guess ammo type is easy enough if the ammo-change menu is the same. It's only really important wiht nade-launchers anyway.

I wish the game tracked weapon status, though. If I assemble a Queen Bee, then have to change to rifle, can't it just drop the launcher on the ground? Why does it magically come apart and need to be reloaded again when I change back?

[CaptHawkeye]

Ive been playing it and my general stance on it is "good" but not great. The combat flows very nicely and their is much more detail than the simhards would have expected to find. The UI suffers from abysmal stickiness in all areas, from weapon changing to the squad radial. The radial is pretty easy to get lost in but it's obviously still waaaay better than OFP's obsolete Number Menu.

What really grinds me about the game is that the content seems to come to end pretty quickly. Their are 11 missions, a couple of infantry weapons, and lots of jeeps/patrol boats and other light vehicle "types" that I don't count as "different vehicles". CM promised frequent DLC to make up for this but I maintain my stance that DLC promises are never to be trusted.

The engine itself is wonderful, the game looks better than Crysis and runs spectacularly even with lots of smoke and bang bang effects on the screen. I think it's worth pointing out that I felt more involved, powerful, and free in the "Spec Opsy" missions in OFP:DR than I ever did with Nano Man and his bullshit game-balanced spandex.

[Vendetta]

EDIT - and really? I've only replayed mission 3 on experienced, but I guess I never looked backwards with the orders popup up. It's even more daft that they 'take it away' and then give it back. The weapon awareness is a similar thing; I don't want to know how much ammo is left, but I don't want to have to remember my fucking fire mode or ammo type either.

I guess it's more "realistic" in the sense that if you want to know where your teammates are, you'd have to take a moment and look around. Similarly, in real life, you'd have to remember your fire mode or take a moment to look at your weapon. Unfortunately, this "pausing to do things" in the game doesn't work in many circumstances since there are some commands you want to give while on the run. And not to mention, it can get real annoying too.

On the other hand, most weapons have a fire select switch with multiple positions, so you carry out slightly different actions switching it to different settings, whereas a game will inevitably just be a single toggle, so you don't get any differentiation (and thus aid to memory) of what you did to get it into the state it's in now (and you can't feel for the switch if you're unable to look at it for any reason).

[Stark]

My problem with 'realism' like 'who knows where your teammates are' is that it's way easier to keep track of people in your group in real life, with proper 3d sound, peripheral vision, etc. If I'm a trained soldier it shouldn't be a difficult task to find my wounded comrade inside 8m because he fell in grass and can't be seen. You lose so much communcation and awareness in a computer game that I don't really see that sort of thing as 'realistic' at all; it's not like your teammates can point 'he's down there' or whatever.

[weemadando]

I've arranged a 4 player co-op game tonight with a bunch of my old LAN crew from Tassie. I'm hoping that this will prove to be the saving grace. After all, if we can actually communicate and not have to deal with shitty command menu implementation then we may enjoy ourselves!

[weemadando]

OK, having played a few missions in 4 player co-op I can make the following observations.

Their lobby system is fucked. As in totally goddamn borked. It took us (us being 4 guys who have been PC and network gaming for at least a decade each and most of whom work in IT) 45 minutes to figure out the right combination of network ports, game settings and incantations to get everyone able to connect to the same game.

Once you're in however, the netcode is smooth and fast and beautiful. We had no lag or any issues at all, even without a dedicated server or retardedly fat US/Korean pipes.

Playing with people makes it so much better, you rarely have to use the command interface, which is a plus for me.

What I'm noticed though is that this game just doesn't seem as [and please STRAK, don't hate me] visceral as ArmA or even the original OFP. When you are taking fire in those games the constant sound of rounds zipping past or snapping into the ground aroudn you livened it up a lot. In this, it's like you're fighting a war with cotton balls stuffed in your ears. It's quiet and it lacks that ... something .... I don't know how to explain it - I just feel acutely aware that I am playing a game with OFP2.

[Zixinus]

I'm planning on getting the game and perhaps joining you gents. Can you give a brief idea of what would be needed to be done to get the game to play on coop?

I presume all four of you used microphones? Might be a bit of a bummer for me, who just has 5.1 sound system.

And I am worried about the controls overall, because I don't have an Xbox360 controller, although I'm considering to change that (but there is of course, the issue of money). I just hope the game is playable even with the controls on easy (or "normal" because that's the new easy or something).

[Pint0 Xtreme]

As annoying as the toggle interface is, it's difficult for me to see how it's in any way shape or form worse than the number comm system. In OFP and ArmA, using the number comm system is worse in almost every aspect. Despite not being able to do anything while using the OFPDR's menu interface, the radial menu is still faster, easier and more intuitive. That's not to say the radial menu works very well. It's just that the old number comm system is just THAT bad. I rarely ever used it since it was such a major pain in the ass to do so. In comparison, I find myself constantly giving orders with the radial menu.

[weemadando]

I think, because I've spent so much time playing OFP, ArmA and ArmAII the number control system is second nature to me. What kills me (literally) is the inability to move while issuing orders, so - say you want your team to engage something, you literally have to stand there, in full sight of said target and give that order. Unless you want to try and do it through the map.

As for the co-op MP issues. You have to:

Open ports 9500-9505
Have a public game (as private games are busted and passworded private games completely broken).
Hope and pray that everyone is able to join - which is not a given. We had scenarios where 2 guys could join the server, but not the 3rd. Or where only one could. It's a fucking shambles.

[PeZook]

My problem with 'realism' like 'who knows where your teammates are' is that it's way easier to keep track of people in your group in real life, with proper 3d sound, peripheral vision, etc. If I'm a trained soldier it shouldn't be a difficult task to find my wounded comrade inside 8m because he fell in grass and can't be seen. You lose so much communcation and awareness in a computer game that I don't really see that sort of thing as 'realistic' at all; it's not like your teammates can point 'he's down there' or whatever.

It's been touched on in the "fake realism in games" thread, but this annoys me, too. Hell, it reminds me how America's Army had "guy radar", and simhards were throwing fits about it being all unrealistic...

With the ammo thing, it's even more jarring, because it would be so goddamned easy to provide the player with information without ruining immersiveness - and in several ways, too.

You could have a button you could press which would display the info.

You could give visual indicators: like make magazines with different ammo have colored tape on them, and the fire selector switch clearly visible (or even highlighted with a halo?)

For grenade launchers, go the AA route and have the weapon change slightly (like rising the ladder sight for the M240) when activated.

[Zixinus]

I've just been killed on my first mission and before I call it a night:

Yeah, the controls are clunky as hell.

Good news is that I've ordered a Xbox 360 pad and it should be arriving on Tuesday or Monday. Even if I won't use it for OP, it will be a better investment than some of the other pads I've brought.

The quick command menu would be a hell of a lot more improved if it would be pop-up as long as the button is held. It's more intuitive that way. Also, OP commits the same mistake a bit as Arma 2 with giving us a lot of command options but not making it a point to familiarise the player to using them. Which is as bad as making the controls unusable because I don't know all the advantages it can give me.
The tutorial should have been more broad.

As for switching bullets, its a nice thought, but it is made cumbersome as hell. You cannot quickly switch to it in combat (think grenade launcher), unlike Arma 2 where its just another firing mode (but where weapon switching is pointless because it takes FOREVER to get that damn rifle or pistol in hand).

Now, how the hell do I drop a weapon that I no longer have ammunition for.

I also find it interesting that my character tells everything automatically, as he sees enemies. Unlike Arma 2, he doesn't tell you map coordinates off the fly, but tell you direction and heading of the enemy, something that is also useful to you.

I also understand why they removed the compass. It shows enemy locations. What I don't get, is how you are supposed to know your bearings in Hardcore mode?

Has anyone ever used the knife? For anything? It's nice (especially how you can selectively slash and stab) to have an actual melee weapon, but still, I have to wonder whether it could be used for anything.

What else? Oh, I find it hilarious that game did the same as Arma 2 when it comes to medics: rather than just stabilise you, they will have magic hands with weird animations that remove bullets and make flesh wounds and blood loss disappear. Of course, this time you have actual blood and thus blood loss. Having dressings for that is definitely a step up.

And yes, I'm keep comparing the two games. I've just gone trough trying to do a mission in Arma 2 when I went and played DR. They're both milsims after all.

[weemadando]

I use the knife to finish off wounded enemy.

Is anyone else feeling like I do about a lack of "intensity" or whatever in OFP2?

[Stark]

I've just been killed on my first mission and before I call it a night:

Yeah, the controls are clunky as hell.

Good news is that I've ordered a Xbox 360 pad and it should be arriving on Tuesday or Monday. Even if I won't use it for OP, it will be a better investment than some of the other pads I've brought.

The quick command menu would be a hell of a lot more improved if it would be pop-up as long as the button is held. It's more intuitive that way. Also, OP commits the same mistake a bit as Arma 2 with giving us a lot of command options but not making it a point to familiarise the player to using them. Which is as bad as making the controls unusable because I don't know all the advantages it can give me.
The tutorial should have been more broad.

It's really sad that this is true on 360 but not PC. Hopefully it'll be fixed; the q-menu as hold is even precedented in WiC.

As for switching bullets, its a nice thought, but it is made cumbersome as hell. You cannot quickly switch to it in combat (think grenade launcher), unlike Arma 2 where its just another firing mode (but where weapon switching is pointless because it takes FOREVER to get that damn rifle or pistol in hand).

It's sad, but on 360 you just hold reload and press up to get your nade launcher. It's not as good as games with 'alt fire', but it's better than 'reach way over here and tap button for a while'. It's largely useless anyway; there aren't enough armoured targets to give a shit about HEDP anyway.

Now, how the hell do I drop a weapon that I no longer have ammunition for.

I also find it interesting that my character tells everything automatically, as he sees enemies. Unlike Arma 2, he doesn't tell you map coordinates off the fly, but tell you direction and heading of the enemy, something that is also useful to you.

I also understand why they removed the compass. It shows enemy locations. What I don't get, is how you are supposed to know your bearings in Hardcore mode?

I don't know why they changed to compass from clock positions. When guys are saying 'man se 200' I have to look to even know where the fuck SE is.

What else? Oh, I find it hilarious that game did the same as Arma 2 when it comes to medics: rather than just stabilise you, they will have magic hands with weird animations that remove bullets and make flesh wounds and blood loss disappear. Of course, this time you have actual blood and thus blood loss. Having dressings for that is definitely a step up.

And yes, I'm keep comparing the two games. I've just gone trough trying to do a mission in Arma 2 when I went and played DR. They're both milsims after all.

I'm surprised the medic thing wasn't difficulty; many wounds don't really do much (it's nowhere near as serious as OFP1) and the missions aren't that long. I love 'sim' games with such obvious sops to playability, that hurt themselves with forced 'realism' in other areas.

Ando, I think the 'intensity' is just as low as OFP. I know exactly what you mean; you see 4 guys at a treeline, you crouch and start plinking, and when they return fire you have no sensation of threat at all (largely because they're terrible shots). If you've swapped to a marksman rifle you'll easily win the engagement without being hit. The close quarters stuff is much better, and any situation where you're outnumbered is good (in villages or bases etc). The small skirmishes are just as boring as they have to be in a game, because they're isolated groups in the middle of nowhere with small-unit tactics but no 'run to the base' or 'call up the tank' AI.

[weemadando]

The best missions I've had so far were the "hold the control tower" and the "hold the village at the beachhead", large numbers of enemies from all angles, friendly forces and large volumes of fire.

Stark - I also think that the sound design isn't as sharp as OFP and ArmAs, there is a real lack of the snap and zing of rounds flying that they both had.

[Zixinus]

Does anybody else notice that the vehicle physics are funky? I mean, I feel like I'm driving something made out of tin or something, I make large jumps left and right. I had a vehicle roll about on its top and side a few times.

Also, I am suspect of the AI. Once, in the very first mission, I fired at an enemy. He took cover from my immedate fire. Okay, I move on and check a moment later.

He's still there. In the previously exposed position. I make a non-lethal hit and he hides... again. Then after sniping some other enemies he's still there. Just standing there, in the exposed position as before.

This didn't just happen once. At the end of the mission (after I went and destroyed the newly-placed SAM or something) I started sniping enemies that were holding my LZ. They didn't move an inch. Even when their buddies were dying right next to them, they didn't budge. They might have lowered their heads once or again, but it happened again. They just don't seem to realise that I'm shooting at them.

I might invoke the ire of Stark again, but I suspect that the AI is for one reason or another, not quite up to old OP level. It might be the fact that the game is aimed at the console market but I think its done to subtly tone down the difficulty level a notch.

As for the weapons: what the hell, either the Chinese military has some very snappy body-armor or are the bullets a whole lot more weaker? I'm keep making non-lethal hits.

The inventory system is not that unmanageable frankly, you have one spot for pistols, two spots for rifles or anti-tank stuff and apparently an unlimited space for everything else.

[CaptHawkeye]

I really dont find the AI that challenging myself. They seem to be really poor shots against the player and his units. While shooting THEM is hilariously easy, because they don't seem to cover eachother or start shooting at the player even when he's clearly in sight. It's kind of ironic ArmA's problems were the other way around.

I don't have any problem with the ground vehicles, at least they're actually durable and not just moving health bars like in most other games. I was actually able to crash a helicopter twice, destroying the blades and gear, but all of us surviving. That being said the flying physics are really simple, but most gamers can barely pilot aircraft let alone helicopters.