SD+SB in Middle Earth

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-02-12 01:02am

After reviewing a thread on SB, I'll put a similar one here with modification and see what ya'll think.

The top 200 posters on SB, the top 75 posters here on SD and anyone with military experience from either are sent to Middle Earth around TA 3000 (one year before the beginning of FOTR). The main war does not begin until TA 3018.

Assume, for a moment, that we do not immediately kill each other (except BigBryan and Laird).

Present there is a large-sized military base, with .50 cal machine guns and 40mm grenade launchers fixed in armored towers with vast ammo stores that cannot be removed. There are thick concrete walls and a trench, which is spanned by a drawbridge.

Inside are ample barracks and training facilities, a well-stocked medical clinic, a fully functional chemistry lab with supplies, a library of pertinent books, and 150 of the various unarmed versions of the Hummer (tanker, truck,).

Munitions are comprised of a massive supply of rations, uniforms, body armor, fuel, and the following ammo types: 9mm NATO, .40 S&W, 7.62mm NATO, and 5.56mmm NATO, as well as various 12ga shotgun shells.

All those teleported get to choose a pistol and a SMG, Pump-action shotgun, or rifle, but they have no ammo other than that listed above. People who are experienced with firearms may additionally bring a SAW or M60, as well as their personal weapons. They can carry one backpack each. They are automatically immunized to any middle-earth diseases, cured of any current infectious diseases, and know Westron fluently with decent Sindarin. Command is shared by IXJac and Painrack, as they actually have some military experience.

The objective: Neutralize Saruman's forces, and distract the forces of Mordor long enough for the Fellowship to sneak in. Any who completes this operation will recieve a doubled life expectancy (triple for the commanders), treasure, and the ability to return home if you desire.

What do you bring, and how well do we do?

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-12 01:28am

Obviously, you quickly clear out a large area around your base, and then you begin using the chemistry lab to manufacture huge amounts of mustard gas.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-02-12 01:29am

For the above, edit out the IXJac & Painrack as commanders, we probably have some with more experience in the pool now.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-12 01:32am

Jegs2 and Guyver would get my vote. IIRC, they both hold the rank of Captain.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-02-12 01:55am

Well, I'll drag down the firearm capabilities a bit...I don't know how to shoot a gun yet (a friend's father keeps promising to teach me, but one of us is always out of town). I'm a fairly quick learner, though. Quite frankly, if we had ~300 people with assault rifles and ammo, Sauron's armies would be in trouble. IIRC, that's about the number of archers at Helm's Deep, and a far higher rate of fire is possible from rifles than from bow and arrow.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-12 02:09am

The Dark wrote:Well, I'll drag down the firearm capabilities a bit...I don't know how to shoot a gun yet (a friend's father keeps promising to teach me, but one of us is always out of town). I'm a fairly quick learner, though. Quite frankly, if we had ~300 people with assault rifles and ammo, Sauron's armies would be in trouble. IIRC, that's about the number of archers at Helm's Deep, and a far higher rate of fire is possible from rifles than from bow and arrow.

Rob Wilson's a bona fide military sniper (OK, ex-sniper; still better than the rest of us). Wait for the leader to get up and do his war chant, and then blow his left eye through the back of his head. Rinse and repeat, at a range far beyond their longest-ranged weapons. I figure they'd find that rather unnerving.

But of course, the mustard gas would really makes their lives miserable

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-12 02:12am

The neutralization of Isengard is also a top priority. Ten thousand orcs is not a small number, even with 200 individuals with rifles. However, the chem lab leads to interesting and devastating consequences. While mustard gas is possible, I prefer not to.. Friendly fire and all that. However, high-grade explosive should be possible from that lab. This is no small thing, if I'm right. It should easily blow holes in places like the Black Gate, and such. If we have eighteen years until the war reaches full swing, it should be possible to prepare some devastating toys from our chem lab.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 02:17am

I think I'd probably be best in a supporting role. Possibly as an emissary to our allies.

If not, I'd be willing to train people in the use of underwater equipment and any other obscure skills that I have.

Hmmm... Yes, an underwater infiltration attack on the dam at Isenguard. Set the charges and swim away again. Could be handy for ambushes too.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 02:20am

I'd also be happy to lend a hand with my improv incendiary/explosives skills.

Also receive firearms training to get me to a frontline standard.

If needed I have enough medical training to be a competent battlefield medic person, but am nowhere near the level required to perform any form of surgery other than basic emergency procedures.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-12 02:23am

SirNitram wrote:The neutralization of Isengard is also a top priority. Ten thousand orcs is not a small number, even with 200 individuals with rifles. However, the chem lab leads to interesting and devastating consequences. While mustard gas is possible, I prefer not to.. Friendly fire and all that. However, high-grade explosive should be possible from that lab. This is no small thing, if I'm right. It should easily blow holes in places like the Black Gate, and such. If we have eighteen years until the war reaches full swing, it should be possible to prepare some devastating toys from our chem lab.

It should be possible to prepare large quantities of various types of high explosives, as well as incendiaries such as thermite and napalm in addition to the aforementioned chemical weapons.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-12 02:24am

weemadando wrote:Hmmm... Yes, an underwater infiltration attack on the dam at Isenguard. Set the charges and swim away again. Could be handy for ambushes too.

That would be excellent.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 02:26am

AdmiralKanos wrote: It should be possible to prepare large quantities of various types of high explosives, as well as incendiaries such as thermite and napalm in addition to the aforementioned chemical weapons.

Step 1 - Get the ring from Frodo.

Step 2 - Cover it in Thermite...

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 02:27am

AdmiralKanos wrote:
weemadando wrote:Hmmm... Yes, an underwater infiltration attack on the dam at Isenguard. Set the charges and swim away again. Could be handy for ambushes too.
That would be excellent.

Well, all I'd need is the kit to be there and a bit of water to train people/practice in. As well as some waterproofed charges and a structural analysis of the dam from an engineer or similar...

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-02-12 02:29am

Well, seeing as I'm rather skinny, and do know how to get around relatively quietly in forests, I'd probably be more suited to recon than front-line fighting. Or preferably R&D... working in the chem lab wouldn't be too hard...

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-02-12 02:35am

Have Es bring over some of his Janeway porn. That'd take out Isengard right then and there.

Now what else is there...hmm...we could all convert Tron's bus to a tank or battle-bus of some kind.

Addendum:

Es Arkajae is a SB member who likes Janeway porn.

Tron is one of our admins. He's a schoolbus driver, hence the battlebus o' doom.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-02-12 02:46am

I die drom lack of Diabetes meds.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 02:52am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:I die drom lack of Diabetes meds.

ACtually there is a fully equipped base hospital, so I doubt it.

And if we're allying with the Fellowship, then you might as well get some good 'ole Elf healing.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-12 02:52am

In all seriousness, we would have to think logically and sequentially:

Secure a perimeter. Clear out a large area around the base. Use deforestation if necessary in order to clear lines of fire for the defensive weapons. In this way, we ensure that the base cannot be directly attacked.
Secure sources of food and water. All the firepower in the world won't do you a damned bit of good if you starve to death. Given the length of time we're in field (at least one year, and possibly many years), this is not a trivial concern at all. We must be self-sufficient, so we need to dig for water and learn to be farmers. Living off MRE's inside the base would be crazy; they will run out eventually, and we would need them for siege situations (although our vastly superior weapon range would mitigate the effect of a siege).
Convert all of the vehicles to run on methanol. Unless we plan to drill for oil, we're going to run out of gasoline pretty damned quickly, particularly with all the recon we have to do.
Perform extensive recon of surrounding areas, using Hummers for mobility. Look specifically for enemy troops (obviously) and human settlements. We will need to forge lines of communication with existing human settlements for various logistical and strategic reasons.
Women: like it or not, the vast majority of the people on this base will be men, and one year at a minimum is a pretty long time to go without female companionship. Unless Kelly and Zaia and the handful of other females are willing to take on 300 men, there would be a serious gender imbalance. This is yet another reason to work closely with neighbouring human settlements.
Advisory activity: we could exponentially improve our strategic position by giving some of our knowledge to the locals. Much as American special forces often function in an advisory capacity to local forces, we would try to do the same.
And now, we can finally look at various tactics relating to direct assaults, weapons, etc.

I would say that when the time comes for Frodo to embark on his fellowship, he'll make much better ground on a Hummer than he would on foot. A heavily armed vehicular convoy could bypass most of the problems we saw in the LOTR trilogy, while an attack on Isengard with explosives and demolition of the dam would wipe out Saruman's forces. Saruman himself could be taken out by a sniper.

As for the Ring, I would adopt Ando's suggestion to try destroying it using extremely hot-burning materials and powerful corrosive agents rather than wasting time on this quest. Even if the Ring has some magical enchantment which keeps it from getting the slightest scratch until it finally pops, we know it's a simple matter of being "hot enough", and thermite burns pretty fucking hot.

If that doesn't work, I would advocate massive deployment of chemical weapons against Sauron's main base of power, in order to cause massive casualties in his army. Let's face it; despite some fanboy claims, he's simply not that formidable without his army.

Mind you, with several present and former military officers in the group, we would have to see if they can generate a better plan.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-02-12 03:01am

Chemical Weapons. LOTS of them. And we need to find a way to build aerial units. Even ultralights powered by motorcycle engines might work, assuming we can't catch a Roc...

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2003-02-12 03:06am

weemadando wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote: It should be possible to prepare large quantities of various types of high explosives, as well as incendiaries such as thermite and napalm in addition to the aforementioned chemical weapons.
Step 1 - Get the ring from Frodo.

Step 2 - Cover it in Thermite...

Don't reserruct the old magic vs science flamewar Ando...

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 03:09am

AdmiralKanos wrote: I would say that when the time comes for Frodo to embark on his fellowship, he'll make much better ground on a Hummer than he would on foot. A heavily armed vehicular convoy could bypass most of the problems we saw in the LOTR trilogy, while an attack on Isengard with explosives and demolition of the dam would wipe out Saruman's forces. Saruman himself could be taken out by a sniper.

Naz'ghul < 120mm smoothbore.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 03:11am

Captain tycho wrote:
weemadando wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote: It should be possible to prepare large quantities of various types of high explosives, as well as incendiaries such as thermite and napalm in addition to the aforementioned chemical weapons.
Step 1 - Get the ring from Frodo.

Step 2 - Cover it in Thermite...
Don't reserruct the old magic vs science flamewar Ando...

Hey, its worth giving it a shot. If it fails, we get Frodo and co. into the armoured column and set off for Mt Doom.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-02-12 03:16am

AdmiralKanos wrote:In all seriousness, we would have to think logically and sequentially:
Secure a perimeter. Clear out a large area around the base. Use deforestation if necessary in order to clear lines of fire for the defensive weapons. In this way, we ensure that the base cannot be directly attacked.

Only problem with that is we might piss off the ents.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-12 03:19am

Shinova wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote:In all seriousness, we would have to think logically and sequentially:
Secure a perimeter. Clear out a large area around the base. Use deforestation if necessary in order to clear lines of fire for the defensive weapons. In this way, we ensure that the base cannot be directly attacked.
Only problem with that is we might piss off the ents.

All of the human structures are made of wood, and many farmers must undoubtedly remove trees as a matter of course. The Ents must surely have some tolerance for deforestation practices, or they would have declared war on just about everybody a long time ago.

Worse case scenario is that we pull up the drawbridge and introduce the Ents to napalm. It's better than having a base surrounded by thick forest. Of course, this presumes that the base IS, in fact, surrounded by thick forest to begin with. If it's stuck in the middle of a flat plain, this is not an issue.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-02-12 04:05am

Its amazing how differently this thread is running compared to the one over at SB