Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by weemadando »

So let's break this down.

They know he's innocent.
But to cover their arse, they decide torture him until he confesses to something.
He doesn't.
They keep torturing him, despite knowing of his innocence.
He confesses to something to make it stop, but that contradicts what they've already been told.
So they keep torturing him to get a "clean" confession that they can use to justify holding and torturing a man they know is innocent.
Rinse and repeat.
FOR MORE THAN SEVEN YEARS
Obama's DoJ then decides to continue the prosecution proceedings after all of this comes out.

Oh, sorry - I forgot, he's brown and not Christian. So that means he must be a terrorist and all of this is totally justified.
The Australian wrote: The ugly truth of the Bush regime's trial by torture

Andrew Sullivan | October 12, 2009
From: The Australian

THERE is no longer any doubt that torture was used against prisoners at Guantanamo Bay under George W. Bush. The president's own appointee who headed the military commissions, Susan Crawford, said so in January.

The torture was not of the sadistic comic-book type; it was rather the torture that destroys the soul and the body without leaving any physical marks: countless days and nights of sleep deprivation, freezing or heating naked prisoners, shackling and tying them in stress positions, taking people to the edge of dying by drowning, sexual abuse. The Bush administration argued that these were the only ways to get vital intelligence and that they were carried out only on the "worst of the worst".

And so the debate is about whether torture is moral and whether it works.

There is, however, another danger of using torture, especially against people captured in distant places with scarcely any evidence against them: torture risks becoming the means to determine guilt or innocence. And if you have captured an innocent man and tortured him only to find he is innocent after all, what do you do then? Does Dick Cheney, the former vice-president, admit that many of these victims were not "the worst of the worst" but simply innocents caught in the wrong place at the wrong time and tortured nonetheless?

Until now, this scenario has only been a fear. Now we know it was a reality. An astonishing, and largely ignored, judicial ruling issued on September 17 in the case of one Fouad al-Rabiah told us that the US government knowingly tortured an innocent man to procure a false confession.

We know that an American interrogator, operating under the authority of the US government, said the following words to a detainee: "There is nothing against you. But there is no innocent person here. So, you should confess to something so you can be charged and sentenced and serve your sentence and then go back to your family and country, because you will not leave this place innocent."

That's from page 41 of the court memorandum and order, releasing al-Rabiah.

Al-Rabiah was captured in Pakistan in December 2001. He had an unlikely history for a top al-Qa'ida commander and strategist. He had spent 20 years at a desk job for Kuwait Airways. He was also a humanitarian volunteer for Muslim refugees. Yet informants had described him as an al-Qa'ida supporter and confidant of Osama bin Laden, and he was whisked away to Guantanamo. The informants' accounts were riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions. In her ruling, judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly noted that "the only consistency with respect to (these) allegations is that they repeatedly change over time".

The one incriminating statement was given by another inmate after he had been subjected to sleep deprivation and coercion. So the only option left to prove that al-Rabiah had not been captured by mistake was his own confession.

The interrogators' notes, forced into the open by the court, gave the game away. In the judge's words, although "al-Rabiah's interrogators ultimately extracted confessions from him", they "never believed his confessions". In fact, "the evidence in the record during this period consists mainly of an assessment made by an intelligence analyst that al-Rabiah should not have been detained".

That CIA analyst, moreover, had told the Justice Department this was his judgment. Rather than withdraw the prosecution, however, the decision was made to get al-Rabiah to confess. He didn't and wouldn't. So he was subject to sleep deprivation and other unspecified "interrogation techniques" that led him to suffer "from serious depression, losing weight in a substantial way, and very stressed because of the constant moves, deprived of sleep and worried about the consequences for his children".

Whatever the techniques applied to him, the outcome was a breakthrough for the US government. It resulted, in the judge's words, in al-Rabiah's "confession that he met with Osama bin Laden, continued with his confession that he undertook a leadership role in Tora Bora, and repeated itself ... with respect to 'evidence' that the government has not even attempted to rely on as reliable or credible".

Al-Rabiah began to make contradictory confessions, and when he tried to retract them, he was punished: "As a result, al-Rabiah's interrogators began using abusive techniques that violated the Army Field Manual and the 1949 Geneva Conventions ... The first of these techniques included threats of rendition to places where al-Rabiah would either be tortured and/or would never be found."

One individual, we now know for sure, was tortured by interrogators who knew he was innocent but were determined to save face. Mercifully, an independent judiciary finally provided him with the writ of habeas corpus.

Shockingly, although Barack Obama's Justice Department knew the details of this case, it persisted with the Bush administration's attempt to prosecute him. Last week, the Obama administration also backed a legal provision to withhold permanently all unreleased photographic evidence of torture in sites and prisons far away from Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. And some of us believed we were voting for change.

After writing about this case on my blog, a Justice Department trial lawyer wrote me an email. In part it read: "The conclusion drawn by each of my colleagues - some of whom are liberal Democrats, some of whom are conservative, law-and-order Republicans - is, to a person, that the detention and interrogation programs the United States implemented in the months and years following 9/11 is not only a complete abrogation and violation of international law and, in many cases, federal law - it is also fundamentally immoral.

"We also agree that the al-Rabiah case is by far the most egregious yet to come to light. To repeat: yet to come to light. I can only guess that there are other, far worse cases."

Well, we will at some point find out.

The Sunday Times
Story
User avatar
The Spartan
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4406
Joined: 2005-03-12 05:56pm
Location: Houston

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by The Spartan »

Sadly, I'm in no way surprised that this sort of thing happened. Of the original group of people imprisoned in Gitmo, I recall that the Pentagon estimated as many as 3 in 4 of them were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, had a unfortunately similar name or were sold for reward money, i.e. guys that weren't terrorists.

Then when you couple that with using torture to gain confessions which seems to inevitably lead to this sort of thing happening. Well, you're going to end up doing something Very BadTM.

On the other hand, that we're continuing with the prosecution... :finger:
The Gentleman from Texas abstains. Discourteously.
Image
PRFYNAFBTFC-Vice Admiral: MFS Masturbating Walrus :: Omine subtilite Odobenus rosmarus masturbari
Soy un perdedor.
"WHO POOPED IN A NORMAL ROOM?!"-Commander William T. Riker
User avatar
Anguirus
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3702
Joined: 2005-09-11 02:36pm
Contact:

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by Anguirus »

^ That seems to be what's missing from this article...why IS this continuing?
"I spit on metaphysics, sir."

"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
-Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
My blog, please check out and comment! http://decepticylon.blogspot.com
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by Simon_Jester »

Because our federal legal system has been getting crap dumped in it from above for the past eight years one appointment at a time, and Obama hasn't had time to properly clean out the Augean Stables yet?
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Tanasinn
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1765
Joined: 2007-01-21 10:10pm
Location: Void Zone

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by Tanasinn »

Is it really too much to hope for some of these bastards end up in prison for the rest of their natural lives?
Truth fears no trial.
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by weemadando »

One of the closing sentences of the article is what perturbs me most.
"We also agree that the al-Rabiah case is by far the most egregious yet to come to light. To repeat: yet to come to light. I can only guess that there are other, far worse cases."
Duckie
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3980
Joined: 2003-08-28 08:16pm

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by Duckie »

The logical reason I can think of that they are continuing to torture this guy is because if they admit they did something wrong, suddenly the curtain comes down. In a twisted way, as long as they continue to admit nothing is wrong and continue to attempt to prosecute him, there's less of a chance of the hammer coming down on them for wrongdoing. It's the same as any bureaucracy, insisting an error isn't an error because it would mean owning up to their mistake and potentially being punished for it.
User avatar
Stark
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 36169
Joined: 2002-07-03 09:56pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by Stark »

People on this board continue to defend Gitmo on the basis that everyone there is a terrorist, so why should it be surprising nobody really cares about this?

It woudln't surprise me if it continued because otherwise the government is leaving itself open to problems. In many cases, stopping something and admitting it was wrong opens a giant can of beans and it's much easier to just keep going so long as nobody cares.
Eulogy
Jedi Knight
Posts: 959
Joined: 2007-04-28 10:23pm

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by Eulogy »

It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. By continuing to torture this guy, they're virtually guaranteeing that this guy will want revenge, and go to great lengths to get it.

The longer this keeps up, the worse it's going to get.
"A word of advice: next time you post, try not to inadvertently reveal why you've had no success with real women." Darth Wong to Bubble Boy
"I see you do not understand objectivity," said Tom Carder, a fundie fucknut to Darth Wong
User avatar
Darth Yan
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2494
Joined: 2008-12-29 02:09pm
Location: California

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by Darth Yan »

Disgusting. They should let him go. Or at least let him sue his torturers for damages.
User avatar
bobalot
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1733
Joined: 2008-05-21 06:42am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Just in case there were any doubts about torture in Gitmo.

Post by bobalot »

Stark wrote:People on this board continue to defend Gitmo on the basis that everyone there is a terrorist, so why should it be surprising nobody really cares about this?

It woudln't surprise me if it continued because otherwise the government is leaving itself open to problems. In many cases, stopping something and admitting it was wrong opens a giant can of beans and it's much easier to just keep going so long as nobody cares.
MKSheppard, Chocula and Axis Kast (I'm assuming they are Gitmo Defenders) are curiously absent from this thread.
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi

"Problem is, while the Germans have had many mea culpas and quite painfully dealt with their history, the South is still hellbent on painting themselves as the real victims. It gives them a special place in the history of assholes" - Covenant

"Over three million died fighting for the emperor, but when the war was over he pretended it was not his responsibility. What kind of man does that?'' - Saburo Sakai

Join SDN on Discord
Post Reply