40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11978
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Imperial Overlord »

More recent interpretations based on re-analysis of info from BFG and other sources has lead me to believe that feudal and feral worlds are not considered "officially" apart of the Imperium (too low tech) but are more like colonies or protectorates (hence the "mililon world" Imperium yet having millions of worlds.) So they could (potentially at least) contribute a fair numbe rof troops even though both such worlds have rather low populations.
What sources support this? The telling fact that such worlds pay tithes and have some representative of Imperial authority on world or in the system indicates that these worlds are considered part of the Imperium, albeit backwards and undeveloped worlds in need of conversion and development. Colonies don't pay tithes.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.
User avatar
Serafina
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5246
Joined: 2009-01-07 05:37pm
Location: Germany

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Serafina »

A "warzone" actually is defined, IIRC.

Basically, it is based on the reaction of the Departmento Muntiorum. If a planet gets attacked, the surrounding worlds will supply troops, supplies etc. - they are drawn into the warzone and shifted to war economy.
Now, two things can happen: either more troops are required on that single planet/system, or the conflict actually spreads to other systems.
In these cases, worlds further out are drawn into the warzone.

Which makes it a pretty broad definition - at least a planet or system, but up to dozens or more systems.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Imperial Overlord wrote:What sources support this? The telling fact that such worlds pay tithes and have some representative of Imperial authority on world or in the system indicates that these worlds are considered part of the Imperium, albeit backwards and undeveloped worlds in need of conversion and development. Colonies don't pay tithes.
Officially? Stuff like BFG and some of the confusing and conflicting stuff about territory and planetary defintiions form Dark HEresy. There's probably other stuff I'm forgetting ATM (like maybe 5th edition) but that alone is worth noting.

unofficially its an attempt to reconcile all the widely diverging accounts of territory size and number, distrubition, what the fuck an "Imperial" world is, what the fuck a hive world is, etc. etc.

I'll try to make this brief:

BFG mentions an average sector having "hundreds" of habitable worlds which are implied to be controlled by humanity. I used that long ago to establish my baseline on number of sectors for fleet calcs. Re-evaluating it, its obvious that BFG adopted a very narrow (and different) definition of what qualified as "planets" in a sector based on the star maps - IE you get Hive and Forge and Civilised and Agri worlds, and even mining and Penal worlds, but they don't include other stuff like Feral or Feudal worlds as being "linked" by said wrap channels, which is pretty effing weird if you ask me but meh.

Anyhow, that means there's pehaps two "tiers" of planetary system in the Imperium. You have "member worlds" and you have "colonies/protectorates" etc. They're all under the imperium's rules, they all give tithes, etc. but there may be different.. levels of importance or authority. This may only apply at an intra-sector or intra-segmentum level, rather than to the Imperium as a whole though.. but its ALL territory. This is also broadly why you interchangably have the "million world/system" reference to the Imperium as well as "millions" (or tens of millions or billions depending on your source) worlds also mentioned in various sources including BFG.

If you've got a better idea though, I'm welcome to suggestions.
User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11978
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Imperial Overlord »

The BFG maps show only major warp channels so they're totally unreliable for deriving information about the Imperium's composition. Feral and feudal worlds are not likely to be on main warp routes in a heavily developed sector as they would probably get modernized quickly. Warp routes are just the easy, safe routes that are frequently used by chartist vessels. Since it lists a feral world as fulfilling navy tithes in the background of the Lunar cruiser, I don't see how BFG supports a divergent system.

There is clearly a two tier system breaking worlds down into colonies and member worlds. Colonies are controlled by a colonial administration but don't owe tithes and thus aren't a source of Guard or Munitorium resources (Tattered Fates goes into this in some detail, as it occurs on a planet that is technically still legally a colony). There are also backwards worlds, primarily feudal or feral, where the Imperial Commander is separate from the populace which owes tithes but has very little understanding of galaxy at large and might still be undergoing conversion by the Ecclesiarchy. That division goes back to Rogue Trader.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

First off, where are you getting this "divergent system" idea? I am talking about a two tiered system, one based on "importance." Its fairly obvious that other planets are under Imperial rule that are NOT included in the canon 'million world/system' Imperial definition, since they use the term "millions" and "billions" interchangably (sometimes in the same source - including BFG and Dark HEresy). The whole point of "official" and "unofficial" is strictly in terms of explaining the discrepancy - "official" worlds fall under the "one million" figure, while the "unofficial" ones are included in the "millions/billions" figures we get elsewhere, and include colonies and minor planets, outposts, etc. It's no different than rationalizing any other bizarrity (like Space Marine numbers) or the varying definition of "hive worlds".
Imperial Overlord wrote:The BFG maps show only major warp channels so they're totally unreliable for deriving information about the Imperium's composition. Feral and feudal worlds are not likely to be on main warp routes in a heavily developed sector as they would probably get modernized quickly. Warp routes are just the easy, safe routes that are frequently used by chartist vessels. Since it lists a feral world as fulfilling navy tithes in the background of the Lunar cruiser, I don't see how BFG supports a divergent system.
Er, why would they deliberately leave out worlds if they are just as important as the ones they do list? The Navy would be tasked to patrol and "show the flag" in those systems as well (They list penal colonies and uninhabited/dead worlds for crying out loud, nevermind the "Ork infested" ones we get from the Armageddon war.) Likewise, its not as if they show research stations and outposts or other minor elements even though they are clearly included as being "Imperial territory".

[wuoyr]
There is clearly a two tier system breaking worlds down into colonies and member worlds. Colonies are controlled by a colonial administration but don't owe tithes and thus aren't a source of Guard or Munitorium resources (Tattered Fates goes into this in some detail, as it occurs on a planet that is technically still legally a colony). There are also backwards worlds, primarily feudal or feral, where the Imperial Commander is separate from the populace which owes tithes but has very little understanding of galaxy at large and might still be undergoing conversion by the Ecclesiarchy. That division goes back to Rogue Trader.[/quote]

As I recall that world was an exceptional case, not a general rule. A developing world or colony naturally would not be immediately subject to tithes since the raising of troops (nevermind material tithes) requires a certain level of population and industrial output, but this hardly puts such worlds on the same level of importance as (say) a Forge or Hive world.
User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11978
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Imperial Overlord »

Er, why would they deliberately leave out worlds if they are just as important as the ones they do list? The Navy would be tasked to patrol and "show the flag" in those systems as well (They list penal colonies and uninhabited/dead worlds for crying out loud, nevermind the "Ork infested" ones we get from the Armageddon war.) Likewise, its not as if they show research stations and outposts or other minor elements even though they are clearly included as being "Imperial territory".
The maps only include worlds that are considered important either for their innate value or their position on major warp routes (and thus inherent strategic value regardless of whether or not they produce anything. Page 158 of the BFG rulebook makes it clear that the subsector maps are deliberately far from complete.

Quaddis is not an exception because it doesn't have to pay tithes because of its colonial status.. Quaddis is an exception because its colonial status has been manipulated and extended because it suites the interests of the powerful in the Calixus Sector.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.
User avatar
white_rabbit
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2002-09-30 09:04pm

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by white_rabbit »

Uh oh Connor, someone linked me to a thread where your analysis is being nitpicked by keen analytical eyes!

My fav bit.
Post by Mr Oragahn

The Eldar plasma grenades of this edition were supposed to be flashbangs, according to Lexicanum.

This is a priceless piece of evidence as to how handle such hyperboles, as a miniature sun is nothing more than a source of light that blinds people, but that's all, not even a frag grenade. The ability to cause damage only appeared in the 4th edition, and therefore must point to a different kind of grenade.
*winces* Lexicanum.

Those of us not working from google are probably aware that the plasma grenades of the 1st/2nd edition were anything but flashbangs. The entry in question from the 2nd edition wargear book is actually only marginally less powerful than an anti-armour krak grenade in terms of strength and armour modifier. (5 and -2, versus 6 and -3) and with a multiple turn persistent "matter energy conversion" blast effect. :lol:

The silly bugger actually has things in reverse, with Eldar plasma grenades becoming "stun" grenades that countered the advantage of cover in close combat, doing no damage, in a similar fashion to frag grenades, which also do no damage ingame in later editions.
ICS is heavily contradicted by BOTH older and newer sources. The Clone Wars Series, the CGI cartoon, routinely shows warships damaged by firepower billion if not trillion times weaker than what the ICS claims.
Example: An exhaustive although incomplete list of such sources. Arguments to defend this position are all over SFJN and even SBC now.
Errrrm......

Not sure that changes the point much, but hurray for obsession right ?


I wouldn't be too worried man. :wink:
Image
User avatar
Aaron
Blackpowder Man
Posts: 12031
Joined: 2004-01-28 11:02pm
Location: British Columbian ExPat

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Aaron »

Christ, Lexicanum shouldn't be used as anything but a quick place to link to pictures. It's actually worse then Wikipedia which is odd seeing as they C&P'd most of their articles from it before the cleanup.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Image
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

white_rabbit wrote:Uh oh Connor, someone linked me to a thread where your analysis is being nitpicked by keen
analytical eyes!
.. [snip quote]

Those of us not working from google are probably aware that the plasma grenades of the 1st/2nd edition were anything but flashbangs. The entry in question from the 2nd edition wargear book is actually only marginally less powerful than an anti-armour krak grenade in terms of strength and armour modifier. (5 and -2, versus 6 and -3) and with a multiple turn persistent "matter energy conversion" blast effect. :lol:

The silly bugger actually has things in reverse, with Eldar plasma grenades becoming "stun" grenades that countered the advantage of cover in close combat, doing no damage, in a similar fashion to frag grenades, which also do no damage ingame in later editions.
Yeah, I did go check what he was doing. Its obvious he just going off what I say, since he would otherwise know that the Harlequin's Kiss thing isnt consistent. The 2nd edition codex for the Eldar argued against the idea I put forth, whereas on the other hand the 2nd Inquisiton War novel Harlequin (which I'll update soon) actually supports it. Hell, since I read Harlequin before I read much of the 2nd edition stuff that's quite likely where I got the idea (and then just forgto about it months later). Doing what he does is rather tricky becuase you're not really bothering to LOOK at the material in any detail, and not knowing what may or may not be said elsewhere can always bite you in the ass (its done so to me before *many* times.)
I wouldn't be too worried man. :wink:
I'm not. If he doesnt have anything better to do let him if it makes him happy.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Page 34
The fighting forces of the Adeptus arbites are the arbitrators, warriors of justie, the militant arm of the Judges. These warriors are many and well armed, capable of fighting a limited war if need be, and of transporting themselves through space in their onw ships. For the Judges trust no-one they may be called upon to judge, and can find themselves fighting rebellious Warmasters of the Imperial Guard, or chasing treacherous Admirals of the Fleet.

...

Each Precint is the base for an army, complete unto itself, led by Marshals of the Court, and supporrted by an array of highly trained warriors of justice. Patrol groups prowl the underway of city hives, shock troops break up the viscious queue wars which develop outside govermental buildings, execution teams hound the guilty through barren wastes and labryinthine tunnesl, and detectives sift holo-records, tracking cyber-criminals through the computer matrix of the Administratum.
The good old Adeptus Arbites. In alot of ways they're a mini-Astartes in that they have limited (and somewhat specialied) warfare capability but also a more "organic" combat setup (Starships, vehicles, etc.) not including what they can requisition in emergencies from the Guard or Navy, that is.

We aren't told how many troops there are in a precint or how many arbites might occupy any given planet, aside from them being less numerous than the PDF, at least.


Page 36
Most humans do not have psychic powers, although it is generally accepted that all humans have at least a limited potential for psychic activity.
Basically a confirmation that all humans are, on some level, connected to the Warp even if they do not manifest tangible or controllable psychic powers. Some of those will not have conscious or consistent powers, but low level powers (ie like wyrds and such.)

Page 36
The institution [Adeptus Astra telepathica] is divided into a teaching body and a recruiting body, called the Scholastia Psykana and the League of Blackships respectively. The two are united under the Master of the ADeptus Astra Telepathica and his advisory council.
The Black Ships are (at least here) under the aegis of the Astra Telepathica.

PAge 36
The League consists of a substantial fleet based throughout the Imperium. The ships travel in a huge circuit, visiting each world every hundred years or so.
That seems like an oddly long time for delay unless multiple ships visit a single world. And slow FTL speeds. No idea how substantial a substantial fleet is. A fraction of the Navy, at least.


Page 36
Primary psykers is the name given to thsoe whose powers and strength of character are sufficient to resist possession and daeonic taint under normal circumstancees.
Non-astropaths. Guard Sanctioned psykers, Librarians, and psychic Inquisitors.

Page 36
AStropaths undergo basic psychic training before they assume their role of telepathic communicators throughout the Imperium. They are taught how to use the Emperor's Tarot, how to cast horoscopes, and the practiicecs of cheiromancy and augury of all kinds. Once they have been prepared in this way they undergo the unique Soul Binding ritual which gies them a little of the Emperor's strength.
Basically the rest of those psykers who won't get eaten eventually. Basic roles are as psychic detection and communication devices, more or less.

PAge 37
The need for Astropaths is enormous. They re a common sight in the Imperium and are easily distinguished by their green robes. Astropaths serve in the Fleet as ship-board and shore based communicators. They also serve in the Imperial Guard, the Inquisition, the Adeptus Ministorum, the Space Marnies, ,and throughout the Adeptus Terra.

The Imperiial Commanders of distant worlds must have AStropaths if they are to communicate with the rest of the Imperium. Similarily, Astropaths are an essential part of civilian life, working for commercial shippers and anywhere where interstellar communication is needed. This vast body makes up a network covering the entire Imperium, facilitaitn gthe transfer of information from one end of the gaalxy to th eother.
Astropaths basically forma vast psychic communicatons and informational network, both in civilian and military roles. They are also vital to commercial interests - likely at the local (sector/sub sector) level and at higher (the latter being more the province of the Imperium and/or Navigators)

Page 37
No ordinary psyker can transmit a message through the warp, nor receive a telepathic message over such vast distances. Astropaths only gain this ability as a result of their many years training, culminating in a special ritual which combines some of the Emperor's own power with their own. This ritual, known as Soul Binding, brings the mind of the Emperor. In the process some of the Emepror's vast energy is transferred to the AStropath
The power of Astrotelepathy seems to be based largely on power, hence the soul binding ritual (likely to resist daemonic forces in the warp doing this). The Emperor may also act as some sort of facilitator or router for signals, helping to ensure they get through. His link to the astropaths also likely gives him a heads up when dangers are nearby, thereby allowing him to assist in preparing the Imperium (through astropathic intervention, the Tarot, etc.)

As I recall though, powerful psykers like Chapter Librarians can serve as astrotelepaths too. Possibly Inquisitorial psykers and Sanctioned ones as well (but perhaps ont as much range?)

Page 39
The Sisterhood is divided into two militant Convents: the Sanctorum and the Prioris.

...

Each Convent has its own fleets and runs its own affairs in much the same way as the Space Marine Chapters.

Like the Astartes and the Arbites, but not like the Guard, the Sisters of Battle have their own fleets.

The Sanctorum and Prioris represent the two main Convents (Terra and Ophelia IV) - meaning two basic fleets, although in all probability ships are dispersed throughout the Imperium on various duties as well as attached to specific stations

.Page 41
The Magos is a master of technological achievement. There are many divisions such as Magos Technicus, Magos Metallurgicus, magos Alchemys, Magos Physic, Magos Biologis, etc

...

The Logis is a logistician, an analyst, and statistician. His purpose is to predict future trends and make forecasts about expenditure and needs. They are regarded as prophetic figures.

...

GEnetors are genetic scientists. They are very common among the Adeptus Mechanicus and often accompany Imperial forces involved in the exploration of new worlds.

...

Artisans, or constructors, design machines, buildings, spacecraft, weapons, and military hardware. THey control the vast labour forces of Servitors.

...

The Electro Priests are fanatic cult warriors of the Adeptus Mechanicus. They travel on board spacecraft and support the Tech-Priest warriors in battle. The Eelctro Priest turns himself into a crackling fount of electrical energy, destroying everything he touches before he collapses from the strain.

...

Engineers are highly trained agents of the Cult Mechanicus, and they are often assigned to duties in the Imperial Guard or other parts of the Adeptus Terra.

...

The Rune Priest scribes runes and chants liturgies over machines as part of the Cult ritual of initiation. He is trained in the arcane branches of scientific lore such as intuitive mechanics, speculation, and improvisation. THey are famous for their lateral thinking, and may be called in to solve a problem when strict logic and standard procedures fail.

...

These [Transmechanic] are technicians or service engineers who specialize in communications technology. Like the Engineers, ,they are often assigned to duties in other Imperial organisations.

...

Their [L:exmechanic] purpose is to compile and rationlise data so that it can be entered into a central computer repository. THey work with computer speed and accuracy, assembling battlefield reports, economic statistics, planetary reports, and so forth. THey may be assigned to duties throughout the Adeptus Terra.

...

Sevitors are mindless slave machines of living flesh and metal - creatures with no individual mind who obey their programming without question. Servitors make up the huge bulk of the Martian population, and there are many kinds from heavy mining cyborgs to Holomats (holographic recorders.) THE most severe punishment for a criminal is to be turned into a Servitor: mind-wiped and reprogrammed to perform some rudimentary function. EX-wrongdoers wear a brass plaque around their necks proclaiming their crime as a warning to all who would cross the Tech-Priests of Mars.
[/quote]
Breakdown on Admech personnel.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Next to last update for Codex imperialis: Titans, Assassins, and Orks (part one)...

Page 42
These [Titans] vast constructions were unlike anything ever seen on Earth, massive humanoid-shaped weapons of destruction powered by fission reactors and bristling with mighty cannons.

...

A titan is a gargantuan land-battleship powered by advanced technology. Its armoured carapace is capable of withstanding heavy damage, whilst its armaments can level whole cities.
Titan fluff. Note that in this context they're described as being powered by fission reactors rather than plasma reactors. Someone will invariably tkae this to mean "plasma reactors are fission reactors" even though fission reactors exist alongside plasma reactors in 40K (and the orks are known for using fission reactors in their gargants, which is different from other sources.)

That said, the logical inference is that not all Titans run on just plasma reactors. Plasma reactors are arguably more effective (IIRC that was required to power void shields) but they may design titans to run off fission (or perhaps fusion) trading firepower and protection for greater reliability (using powerfields instead of void shields.) It would be a less effective Titan, but not neccesarily dramatically so. Perhaps these would be cheaper, "Mass produced" titans?

Alternately, its possible Titans run on variable power supplies.

Page 42
These [Forge Worlds] became the bases for the Titan Legions throughout the galaxy, so that today the Titan Legions are spread across the Imperium, where they defend the scattered Forge Worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
That means there are at least one Titan Legion per forge world (likely), and knowing there are thousands of Forge worlds, there are thousans of Titan Legions.

Page 42
The Adeptus Mechancius is driven by the quest for knowledge. This quest takes many forms, including research and exploration, but its ultimate embodiment is the search for ancient STC systems.
They search for STCs primarily, but they also do research. Worth remembering.

Page 42
The STCs are often said to embody the sum total of human knowledge. This is probably true as far as technical accomplishments goes. Although most colonists required little more than designs for agricultural machinery, programs were included for all sorts of advanced constructions such as nuclear power grids and fission reactors. However, the early colonists' needs were simple and were met by conventional energy forms and relatively low-level technology.

...

Today there are no known surviving STC systems, and only a very few examples of first generation print-out.
STC fluff.

Page 42
By their efforts much information has been retrieved or can be reconstructed by the vigorous analysis and comparison of copies. Yet the most technically-advanced knowledge eludes the Adeptus Mechanicus, ,for the early colonists were mostly simpel folk whose needs were practical. Only rarely did anyone bother to take copies of the theoretical and advanced work which the STC contained.
More STC fluff.

Page 44
Engineers are the most skilled of all human technicians.
The Imperium has engineers and technicians, although in more modern parlans this probably became "enginseers". so may be overriden.

Page 45
The Electro Priests are a fanatic brotherhood of techno-zealots. Their skins are engraved with a metallic electoo circuit, a metal-based tattooo that spirals round their bodies like a magnetic coil. This complex circuit interfaces with their minds and enables them to buidl up a huge current of electrical energy.
Good old Electro priests. Not often seen in modern fluff or anything like that. The stuff they have is pretty neat. Its worth noting that Glavians seem to have similar tech to the Electropriests, so its possible that the Glavians are tied to the AdMech in some fashion (in case anyone forgets, the Glavians were from the Eisenhorn novels)

Page 46
Servitors are the lowest form of bio-mechanical life - task-adapted slaves whose mechanical components are designed so they can perform a single laborious function. There are untold millions of these mindless cyborgs on Mars, many working in hostile enviroments where an unmodified human body would quickly perish. Because they are specifically adapted they vary tremendously; some have mechanical legs or arms for lifting, others have computer terminals sprouting from their bodies where they interface with more complex machines. Many Servitors are adapted from artificially cultured drone bodies: others are mind-wiped humans who have committed some terrible crime.
Servitor description, estimated population numbers on Mars. Of interest are the "artificially cultured" bodies, implied cloning and artificial birth tech.

Page 47
Only the High Lords themselves can sanction the deployment of the Assassins.
Self explanatory

Page 47
An Assassin's body is his most powerful weapon. He can smash through steel with his hands and feet. He can climb sheer surfaces, leap gaping chasms, run as fast as the wind, and endure hardships that would kill a lesser man. None can withstand pain or hurt like an Assassin. An Assassin can place his hand in boiling water without flinching, he can endure flame, or cutting blade. Even mortal wounds will not blunt his purpose.
Benchmarks of Assasin capability. Its not specified (at least here) whether or not these are the result of genetic engineering (similar to what the Space Marines do) or more bionic/augmetic enhancement. Or perhaps both.

We can probably infer these are "generic" Assassin abilities (a minimum bencjhmark) with specific abilities varying among the various temples (IE Eversor and Culexus probably make better fighters than a Vindicare.)

Page 47
This [synskin] is a rubbery layer which the Assassins spray onto theri bodies, forming a close-fitting suit which enhances the shape and function of the muscles below. Even items of equipment can be sealed in place by successive layers. Synskin acts like armour, absorbing the blows and dissipating the energy of a hit. Synskin also feeds the body with oxygen and metabolic booster chemicals. An Assassin wearing synskin can survive burning heat, freezing cold or even the hard vaccuum of space for a limited time.
Synskin description and capabilities.

Page 48
THe mere administration of the Imperial Palace is said to involve over ten billion people.
At least 10 billion on Terra, simply involved in administration. Since this is likely a small percentage of the overall populations, its likely their numbers match or exceed that of other hive world populations.

Page 49
Ciphers are trained to memorise dictation and can repeat whole texts verbatim after a single scan. They achieve this by means of self-hypnosis. The ability is a family secret passed down from parent to child. Ciphers have no knowledge of the messages they carry, ,but mechanically chant their information when they reach their destination.
Imperium couriers.

Page 49
Subordinates are servants who work for a specifici part of the Administratum. Some are skilled craftsmen, engineers or builders, others are unskilled workers who perform similar tasks to menials.
Apparently, at least by this, we have engineers and craftsmen not directly tied to the AdMech but may be allied with or trained by).

Page 50
The Ork race is spread throughout the galaxy much like mankind, but unlike mankind the Orks are divided into many thousands of independent empires, each led by an Ork Warlord. Warlords strive to defeat their neighbors whether they are humans, Eldar, or even other Orks. If successful, a Warlord expands his territories by conquest, and continues to do so until he is defeated. Even if a Warlord wins battle after battle, plundering many worlds and scattering the armies of the Imperium before him, he will eventually overreach himself. This is simply a part of Ork nature! Orks always attack before they are ready adn they never think beyond the next battle.
While out numbering other races (as per other sources), Orks are broken up into coutnless number empires. "Thousands" is almost certianly a generalization, since as described above, Orks territory can expand or contract according to circumstance, and many Orks are nomadic by nature as well.

Page 50
This lack of foresight and organisation have saved the Imperium from defeat m any times, although the damage inflicted by rampaging Orks can still be very great. Most Ork incursions can be dealt with as a matter of routine, and local forces usually manage to contain the invaders before too much harm is done. However, this is not always the case, and Earth has been threatened with destruction several times in the Imperium's history.
Most Ork invasions evidently aren't nasty enough to require much if any Guard assistance, but others are another story - The high end being the ability to invade or threaten Terra, which would take SIGNIFICANT forces. More than likely many times greater than what the Armageddon forces face.

Page 50
What has become clear is that the Orks are the remnants of a once diverse race of green-skinned creatures whose colonies extended over most of the galaxy.

...

The Brain Boyz were the driving force beyind the civilisation, developing technology and directing the other castes.
The Ork race (like the Eldar) at some point ruled the galaxy as well. Its hard to imagine exactly when this might be, since the Eldar ruled the galaxy some time before The Fall, whereupon humanity began its ascendance. THe Eldar may have fought the Orks at some point to build their own empire, or they may have built some empire after the Fall but before the Imperium kicked their asses.

My guess is that its sometime after the Old Ones fell (since we know they created tjhe Orks as well as the Eldar) but befor the rise of the Eldar empire, since much of this Empire would tie into the "Brain Boyz" concept as well. Of course, this might also be subject to revision of canon, like all things.

Page 50

If Ork Legends are anything to go by, the Brain Boyz died out in a great plague that lasted for many centuires, causing them to dwindle in numbers and eventually die out altogether. Fortunately for the Orks, the Brain Boyz evidently predicted what would happen and took steps to preserve what they could of their knowledge by engineering it inot the genetic structure of their slaves. It is as a result of the Brain Boyz' efforts that Orks have such a relatively high level fo technology today.
Loss and extinction of Brain Boyz. I must say I like this better than "Brain Boyz died cuz they lost their smart mushrooms" from earlier age.

I'm not going to speculate now you can "genetically engineer" technological development into the orks. either its high tech nanowankery type stuff or I'm just invoking warp magickery

If the Necron Codex is anything to go by, its possible the "plague" was what hit after the Necrontyr went into hibernation, which means the "Ork Empire" originated at some point in history when the Old ones were still around. Or that the Brain boyz had some connection ot the Old Ones.

Of course this being 40K, there probably are lots of "deadly plagues" flying around what with Papa Nurgle lurking about.

Page 50
Orks are brave and tough, and their bodies have a natural resilience which allows them to survive traumatic injruies and the most primitive surgery. They feel very little pain and can keep fighting even if they lose a limb or sustian a major body wound. Their blood, which is green, carries a symbiotic algae through their veins, digesting and reconstituting damaged body tissue and even rebuilding major organs. This unusual physique is common to both orks and their smaller cousins the Gretchin, and was presumably common to the ancient Brain Boyz too.
Description of Ork toughness. The ability of their blood to "break down" and re form Ork tissue probably explains both their regenerative ability as in their ability to digest or feast on their mobile ecosystem (which is a form of cannibalism for all intents and purposes.)

Gretchin have the ability Orks do, but just in lesser capability.

Page 50-51
these Oddboyz all posess an intuitive understanding ot complex technical matters.

...

It appears that bound up within an Ork's genetic structure are artificial DNA strands which carry knowledge. Possibly tehse DNA strands were implanted into the Ork metabolism by the Brain Boyz to enable the Orks to surivve without their masters. As an Ork matures any latent knowledge inherent in his genetic structure starts to make itself felt, and he assumes a role in society to which he is best suited.
More on the Ork "genetic technology" stuff. I still think its handwaved away by the warp. We might figure that the Orks "Brian Boyz" still exist as some sort of warp entity or some gestalt (related ot their gods perhaps?) and that the smart ones "feed" their technological understanding psychically to the Orks with the right genetic structure.

Page 51
Although this gives the impressoin that Orks are disorganized and rebellious, they are actually capable of a high degree of co-operation. The Techno-magi of the Adeptus Mechanicus have identified low levels of background psychic energy in the minds of Orks and Gretchin, and this seems to act like a hormonal stimulus, establishing territories and establishing just who is who in the hierarchy of Orkdom.
More on the psychically-oriented nature of Ork physiology. As noted by WR, its highly possible that Orks generate psychic energy independently of the warp (although their gods are still Warp entities, and they are invariably linked ot them in some way.)

It may be that the Orks have some unique ability to tap the warp without directly linking portals to it which makes them impossible for daemons to inhabit, but that's purely speculation on my part :)

Page 51
This process (Warlords assembling an Ork Army) is controlled in some way by the Ork psyche. When massive Ork armies embark upon wars of conquest, this psychic stimulus gives rise to what the Orks call a Waaagh!

The Waaagh takes hold in the minds of every Ork and gretchin, driving them towards fresh conquests up on a wayve of bloodthirsty euphoria. A Waaagh will last until the Orks are defeated or until they run out of enemies, after which the armies will dissipate and the various Ork factions divide into mutually antagonistic tribes oncee more.
Ork Waaghs as we know are a psychic impulse (yet another manifestation of their psychically oriented biology) although the trigger is not specifically known beyond that we get ork Leaders organizing it and one big leader overseeing it all. If we take Armageddon as an example, it likely manifests as an impulse from the psychic gestatlt-entity known (to them) as "gods" that provide this impulse - although other sources say that the other way around is true (that is, Waaagh's tend to influence the gods. Perhaps whatever gestalt controls Ork technological development and the WAAGH is separate form their gods.)
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

And... last update to Codex Imperialis. Rest of the orks, Tyrnaids, Eldar...

Page 51
It seems likely that Squigs are another legacy of the Brain Boyz, the features of a natural and mobile ecosystem that sustains the Ork racees as it travels from world to world.
Mention of the Ork's "mobile ecosystem." Its probable that the ecosystem represents an intermediary by which Orks convert the resources of their enviroment (water, other organic material etc) into something more easily digestible/usable by the Orks.

Page 51
A [Ork] tribe is roughly analogous to an army or the inhabitants of a planet, but because Orks don't always settle in one place for very long tribes ar em ore important than planets.
...

Although Orks belong to tribes they also belong to clans. Tribes are constantly changing, breaking apart and reforming, but the clans are constant and enduring.

...

These [clans] probably reflect genetic variations engineered into the Orks by the Brain Boyz in the distant past, although this is impossible to say for certain.
Organization of Ork Hierarchy in brief. Note that Ork "clans" are considered genetic variations or specializations in the Ork species itself.

Page 54
As Orks feel very little pain they can sustain serious wounds without a flinch. Their bodies will readily accept the most crude transplants and prosthetics and serious battle injuires don't bother them much.

...

The Orks green skin is due to the algae that flows through thier blood and also forms part o ftheir digestive system. This algae not only gives the Orks their green colouration, but it also accounts for their strange and extremely durable metabolism. It is true that an Ork head will live for some time if severed from its body, and can sometimes be transplanted onto another body altogether.
More on Ork physiology and toughness.

Page 55
The Gretchin do most of the actual work, especially fetching and carrying, and they outnumber the Orks manyn times over.
As noted, the Gretchin do most of the actual running of what passes for the Ork Empire.

Page 57
All orks unconciously generate a certain amount of psychic energy. The reasons for this are uncertain, but it could go a long way towards explaining their sense of common purpose and the uncanny way that tribes have of gathering together when the time comes for a big war.
As I already noted, White rabbit has noted this may indicat ethe Orks draw psychic power from another source other than the Warp.

Page 57
They [weirdboyz] absorb the psychic power of ORks around them, and the more Orks there are nearby the higher the psychic charge. Unfortunately the Weirdboy can't control the build up of psychic power within his head and strange things start to happen.
Weirdboyz are Orkish psychic artillery, including up to duplicating lances.

Page 57
Their houses are built high in the air on copper piles which help to transmit psychic energy away from the Weirdboy and into the ground, much as a conductive wire will earth electricity.

...

They also carry copper staffs which enable them to earth their psychic powers, preventing too great a psychic build-up in their brains.
I dont know if the Copper actually has some effect in damping or dissipating psychic power, or if the Orks only believe it does and thus it works, but its worth noting.

Page 57
As the Weirdboy soaks up all this raw psychic energy of the Orks around him he desperately clings to his copper staff for relief, but the energy build up is too fast to discharge completely.

..

With a massive stomach-werenching heave the Weirdboy vomits out a great gout of psychic flame, drenching the target in destructive power which dissolves flesh and metal into nothing.
Weirdboyz act as a sort of psychic capacitor, in other words.

Page 61
Rogviler had gone down in hand-to-hand combat with some of those Rough Riders. An explosive-tipped lance had torn him apart.
Rough Rider lance blasts apart an Ork with its explosive head. Effect oughta be at least equal to several grenades.

Page 62

They [Eldar] are more often ally than enemy to the Imperium, yet the two races owe each other nothing and conflicting interests have driven them to war on occasions.
Nothing new here -we've known both Imperium and eldar to ally out of mutual self interest.

Pge 63
No one knows exactly how many Craftworlds there are, not even the Eldar themselves, for the evacuation of their worlds was hurried and many ships disappeared into the void.

...

undoubtedly there are CRaftworlds which have yet to make contact with either the Imperium or the main body of Eldar Craftworld civilisation.
The implication in this is that the Eldar craftworlds don't maintain anything resembling constant contact with each other, save via travellers int he webway and Harlqeuins, which is likely infrequent at best. This would imply they haven't got anything with the range/reliability/ability of an astropath (although I dont see why, Eldar are stronger psykers and Farseers could do it I am sure. Hell, maybe they do.)

Page 63
Every Eldar is a trained fighter able to defend the craftworld against enemy attack. There are far too few Eldar for things to be otherwise.
The Eldar largely rely on militia forces, in other words.

Page 63
Their usual weapon is the Shuriken, a magnetically charged projector which fires a hail of monomolecularly sharp discs. The discs are no bigger than the width of a palm, but their edges are so sharp that they slice striaght through armour, severing limbs, and tearing apart flesh.
Shurikens are implied to be several cm in diameter. They must rely more on their edged nature to do damage rather than raw impact (momentum and KE). assuming silicon like density and maybe a millimeter thickness we may infer they mass in the milligrams.

If we infer momentum comparable to somewhere between the Steyr ACR (10 grains at 1450 m/s) or a shotgun flechette here of around 580 m/s for an 8 grain flechette we may infer a momentum between .8 kg*m/s and .29 kg*m/s. If we say 10 milligrams (1e-5 kg), velocity at this momentum would be tens of km/s easily (20-80 km/s) - well into the hypervelocity regime.

Note however that the only reason to achieve such a velocity is going to be to achieve some range and accuracy, shurikens shred their target and they do so by virtue of high rate of fire rather than the individual power of the shots. Still, they may use increased velocity simply to achieve better penetration against some targets.

Page 63
These masked warriors (ASpect Warriors) fight with the ferocity of daemons and their fighting skills exceed those of the Guardians many times over. To human eyes these warriors exhibit supernatural speed and dexterity.
Naturally this means that Aspect Warriors are many times better fighters than humans (likely including Strength, speed, etc.)

Page 72
There are several thousand [Squat] Homeworlds, and it is very likekly that there are worlds still awaiting rediscovery after the time of isolation.
This used to be true of course. Its worth noting the scope of the former Squat forces, before they got eaten. Its likely that any Squats leftover are now simply another abhuman race under the aegis of the Imperium - not a independent power. Their Tech would also have been gobbled up by the AdMech too (and probably their engineers as well.)

Page 72
There are currently approximately 700 Leagues in all, the most powerful being the influential League of Thor which includes over 300 Strongholds. THe other Leagues are less poweful, and the smallest is the League of Emberg which lies close to the Eye of Terror and includes only four Strongholds.

Other Leagues include the League of Kapellar, which is actually the largest in size,
Former organization of the squats pre-Tyranid.

Page 73
The Guild has succeeded in developing several technologies which are exclusive to the Squats, and are not even understood by the Technomagi of the Adeptus Mechanicus on Mars. These include the neoplasma reactor powered by a warp-core and held in thrall by a zero-energy containment field. No other race has developed this technology, and the Adeptus Mechanicus gave up their experiments with warp-cores after the infamous Contagion of Ganymede.
"Neoplasma reactors." Presumably linked ot regular plasma reactors, so both must involve fields containing a warp core (which amkes sense, since some BFG sourcs mention warp engines powering Imperial ships)

Page 76
However, there are many gateways between the world of matter and the realm of power, some great and others small, but all bristling with potential danger. The largest gateway is the Eye of Terror
The Eye of terror is considered a "gateway" between the warp and realspace.

Page 76
The Daemons themselves can effortlessly take on material shape by drawing upon the energy of the warp to manifest their physical bodies.
Daemons take on material shape by tapping energy from the warp and physically shaping their form. Energy to matter conversion, I guess. I'm more inclined to believe this only applies in the warp. In realspace they are less tangible, and must rely on realspace matter to take shape.

Page 76
These worlds are home to the mortal followers of Chaos, the bands of Chaos Renegades that plague the galaxy, to outlaws and desperados from a thousand worlds,
Populations of Chaos worlds. Make Imperial populaces look like pacifists.

Page 76
Whole worlds may be plunged into anarchy. Freed from the righteous restraints imposed by the imperium psykers go out of control, releasing a vortex of psychic energy that tears at the fabric of the multiverse. If allowed to go unchecked, the psychic warp-rift, engulfing the planet within a tide of daemons, swallowing the whole world within the warp and creating yet another substantial gateway from which the perils of Chaos can invade the universe.
This largely tells us the whole point of chaos cults (from the perspective of Chaos) - to create new chaos worlds perverted by the Warp.

Page 78
Although a Primal Heresy throughout the Imperium there are thousands, maybe millions, of chaos Cults, all gathering their strength and extending their influence.
A (rough) esitmation of the number of Chaos cults in the Imperium. If we estimate scores or hundreds of cultists per cult, we may infer tens/hundrds of billions of cultists to trillions in the Imperium. Still an esitmate though.

Page 90
The Explorators of the Administratum discover hundreds of new worlds every year, new life-forms, even new civilisations. For the most part these aliens are ignored, contained, or, if they present a danger to the Imperium, eradicated.
"Hundreds" of worlds disocvered annually. Even though it probably isn't an exact estimate we might figure the estimated "true" size of the Imperium, even if it were just a very rough calc.

Also, we see the Imperial policy towards alien worlds - they'll ignore them or restrict them if they aren't a threat, but if they are a danger they wipe them out. Rathre more pragmatic than their xenophobic propaganda would have you believe.

Page 90
Planets known to have teemed with plant and animal life were suddenly reduced to scorched asteroids of sterile bedrock. Not a single creature, not even a solitary bacterium remained to bear witness to what was often millions of years of complex biological evolution.
Result of Tyranoforming. It evidently does suck up "everything" that could be considered organic. Even, I would guess. topsoil.

Page 94
The Tyranid hive fleet consist of millions of spacecraft, each home to billions of creatures, untold thousands of monstrosities evolved from teh bubbling geno-organs of the ship's reproductive chamber.
"Millions of spacecraft" with "billions of creatures" per craft.. trillions per hive fleet. Although breakdown isnt given, the implication would seem to be their combat forms.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Now that codex Imperialis is done, I want to cover Dark Millenium. 2nd edition book, also 1993. covers psychic stuff mainly but also some vehicle shit.

Page 3
Da Krunch: This Ork power uses a template that looks like a huge foot-shaped crater. This is because the power summons up a huge ectoplasmic vision of the foot of Gork (one of the Ork gods) stamping down on the enemy.
Ork psychic powers can generate collective psychokinetic manifesations. This may be an important thing to note as a potential explanation for many other warp related phenomena that are "seemingly solid as well.

Page 3
The Gate is an Adeptus power which opens a tunnel through the warp.
Psychic power for Imperial forces that allows a (shorter ranged) sort of teleport on-planet. Similar to a webway I guess.

Page4
Others known it as the Sea of souls, and these perhaps understand it best of all, for every creature in the material universe also has an existence in the warp, a spirit-self or soul. With the death of its physical body, the soul of a mortal creature is cast adrift in the limitless sea of energy. Eventually the souls of all but the strongest are drawn to the Chaos gods to feed teir lusts.
The Warp/realspace connection between living beings nad their spirtual counterparts in the warp. The interesting thing here is the implication that barring some other external force (EG another godlike being like the Emperor.) any entity's soul "in" the warp will invariably be gobbled up by the Chaos Gods. This may not neccesarily refer to the FantasitcFour alone, however - the context could be taken to mena ANY super powerful warp entity, and the Gods probably can absorb that power if any oftheir minions consume the soul - their minions are literally extensions of themselves after all.) - thus it isn't so much that all creatures are automatically bound to Chaos gods so much as that any unattached soul that lacks the strength will be a victim in short order.

The only exception of cours are the extremely strong souls. One presumes that these are the sorts that may manifest again as angels or divine beings (EG a Primarch for example.)

Page 4
Thus the gods of Chaos and their daemonic minions grow stronger all the time, gathering the strength of the billions of mortal souls adrift in the warp. But this harvest does not satisfy them and they constantly seek ways to corrupt more souls and break through into the mateiral universe to glut their lusts on its inhabitants.
A lower limit indication of the power of Chaos gods, although its not accurately quantifiable (since not all souls are the same in terms of the psychic power they allow) but still "billions" is pretty damn impressive.

This also highlights the basic nature of the Chaos Gods as being manifestations of the basic emotions of living creatures - they may be complex in some ways, but in others they are quite simple and straigthforward (EG what they rperesent/feed off of.) and their animalistic cravings to feed and feed.

Page 4
The souls of mortal creatures stir currents and waves in the energies of the warp. A few, the very strongest, can draw energy from the warp and into the material universe. With experience they can give form and purpose to the raw power of the warp, reading minds, sending mental images or messages, locating people or objects, seeing into the future or the past and so on. These psykers are often trained by the Imperium to serve mankind in a myriad of ways. Some become Astropaths who speak between the stars, others fuel the great beacon of the Astronomican. Others are granted the honour of sacrificing their souls to the Emperor.

With further training or greater experience, the strongest psykers can wield the energy of the warp in ever more potent ways. They can transport creatures at will, summon raging infernos of fire or cast ravening bolts of raw power. They can assail the minds of the enemy or overwhelm their consciousness with false images. Psykers such as these serve the military force and support ordinary troops on the battlefield with their extraordinary abilities.
Myriad capabilities of psykers, particularily Imperial ones. The first paragraph describe alot of deteciton and communication abilities, many of which probably would qualify as "fTL sensors" as well as communication by Imperial standards. The others in the second paragraph hint at stuff already known or described.

We also get the usual breakdown of psykers - food for the emperor, fuel for the astronomican, or astorpaths/sanctioned psykers/etc.

Page 4
Just as a psyker can draw energy from the warp into the material universe so he can draw daemons too.
drawing on the warp, since it crates "currents" and "waves", is probably what attracts the notice. The greater the draw the more attnetion you're likely to pull. And if a Daemon notices you, it can use that connection as a portal (hence.. possession.)

Page 7
When the warp flux is great psykers are able to draw on more energy to use their powers but the extra energy also makes it easier for opponents to defend themselves, so more powers willb e used but fewer will work successfully.
The conditions of the Warp affect the power of psykers. No surprise really, since we know its true with daemons and sorcerers (warp storms especially.)

Page 14
Eldar runic powers mostly rely on the subtle channelling and redirection of the flow of the warp to bring an effect by indirect means. This is because too great a disturbace in the warp will bring the attentions of Slaanesh, the bane of the Eldar.
By and large the effects of these powers can be considered "luck" or prediction or probability manipulation (making lucky shots hit, making shots strike catastrophically, making shots miss by luck, causing accidents, etc.)

This leads to an interesting detail about the Eldar's psychic powers. THey are considerablty stronger psychics than humans as a rule, but due to Slaanesh they have to be much more subtle and skillful with their manipulation of the Warp than normal. Which probably is good practice for hwen they DO use their full power.

Page 15
The bulk of Librarian powers concentrate on the enhancement and protection of the Librarian himself or those around him. This reflects the Librarian's vocation as a warrior monk and how they have learned to perform super-human feats with the aid of energy siphoned off from the warp.

..

Even Greater Daemons have reason to fear the attentions of a high level Space Marine Librarian!
Powers here include teleportation, psychic shielding, and Prescience. They don't just focus on enhancement, they do often have raw firepower at their command as well as augmentation. But the augmentation is not surprising either - we've seen Librarians in some cases use their psychic powers to boost speed and strength

I'm not sure that the last part actually means a "high level" Librarian (someone like Tigurius or Mephisto perhaps) is equal in power to a Greater Daemon, or something along the lines of a Librarian being powerful enough to banish them without difficulty (or at least threaten to banish them.)

Page 15
The Adeptus powrs represent a broad range of common psychic abilities which are relatively easy to master. This is why so many different psykers can draw upon the discipline of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica as a secondary discipline. However the Adeptus discipline does contain some of the best attacks and most useful 'general' powers...
They can curse machines, telekinetic like abilities, warp tunnels, and teleportation.

Page 16
The Inquisition powers are mostly directed at combating daemons and psykers or bringing down mass destruction on the foe.
They can bolster abilities against daemons, create warp vortexes (like a vortex weapon), or trigger holocausts.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Some more Ork stuff from Dark Millenium.. mostly psychic nonsense
Page 16
The Ork weirdboy "discipline" is undoubtably the most brutal set of powers avialable. Nearly all of the Weirdboyz' powers are attacks of one sort or another, though the Waaagh! power is useful for enthusing da Boyz when they hcarge into hand to hand combat.
These mostly seem to be psychic/physical manifestations, doing nasty direct attacks (crushing, throwing, etc.) I believe Epic 2nd edition described weirdboyz as exhibiting Poltergeist activity, which is basically what this would be - directed/controlled (sort of) poltergeist activity.

Page 17
Though they are limited in their applications, the Squat psychic powers are potent, driven as they are by the Ancestor Lord's formidable will power.
Creation of "force domes", mental domination (puppetry ableit briefly) etc. Squats basically had a different approach to the whole Weirdboy thing (or what Tyranids did with Zoanthropes and some other specific Hive forms.) or the way some dedicated Chaos sorcerers tap power

Page 18
Orks and gretchin have a metabolism which is quite unlike that of humans, and as their physical make-up is entirely different it is hardly surprising that their psychological make-up is diffrent too. This has a profound effect on the way Orks and Gretchin interact with the warp. Whereas other creatures with psychic powers utilise the raw power of the warp, Orks and Gretchin generate their own psychic energy.

Each Ork and Gretchin unconsciously creates a week psychic field aorund himself. When they become excited, such as in a battle, this field becomes stronger and stronger and merges with the psychic fields of all the other Orks and Gretchin around them.
White Rabbit has previously noted on Spacebattles and to me that this indicates the Orks are not tapping the warp for power. I'm of two minds on this. One, they flat out say it so it must be true... yet their Gods are clearly warp-manifestations and the Orks are linked to and influence them as well (as noted in Epic Armageddon.)

Best explanation I can think of is that there are no true Ork "psykers" in the sense human and Eldar have them. Rather, all Orks are weak psykers (too weak to be noticed or sustain daemonic entities via possession and corruption, which couples with the "protection" of Gork and Mork to give them great protection against Chaos.) and that they only manifest psyker abilities in aggregate via the weirdboyz (which act as psychic sponges and foci for the attacks.) Another way to look at it is that weirdboyz are powered by Orkish "faith" in the WAAAGH and Orkyness in general, although "faith" isn't the right word for it since its pretty much how things "are" for Orks.

Page 18
This psychic energy is perceived by the Orks as a feeling of communal excitement and invulnerability known as the Waaagh! As the Ork Boyz march into battle they feel strong and unbeatable as the mounting spirit of the Waaagh! overtakes them. This unique psychic field interferes with the powers of other races and so makes Orks and Gretchin difficult to affect with psychic attacks. at the same time thepower of the Waaagh! can be focused by Ork Weirdboyz to unleash terrifying destructive psychic assaults upon their enemies.
Ork psychic energy in aggregate, as I supposed above, can manifest as a "pskyer" via weirdboyz. Also they seem to have a lesser "Shadow of the Warp" type effect like what Tyranids do.

Also, the WAAAGH effect has a huge psychological impact on Orks that can enhance or degrade their abiliites. (Thus not just equipment can be enhanced via the "WAAAGH" effect - it can actually bolster their physical capabilities - or degrade them if Orks lose morale. Such as when a leader is killed.)

Page 18
Ork Weirdboyz are, trhough a fluke of genetics, particularily susceptible to the power of the Waaagh! When other orks around them become excited and their psychic field glows strongly, the power of the Waaagh! tries ot find osme means of discharging itself. Like it or not, the power vents itself through the most susceptible mind in the vicinity - usually that of a weirdboy. The Waaagh! resonates within the Weirdboy and he becomes suffused with its energy, driven wild iwth excitement and pain. It is so difficult to contain the growing power that the Weirdboy may die in a particularily spectacular fashion if he does not find some way of releasing the pent up psychic energy.'

Weirdboyz learn at an early age that the only way to avoid extreme pain and even detah is to allow their minds to vent this mounting energy in the form of a destructive psychic manifestation. In an immature Ork this may take the form of uncontrolled poltergeist activity in which objects mysteriously fly about the room or smash onto the floor. The mature Weirdboy learns to control these powers and turn them to his advantage in the form of powerful energy blasts or radiant psychic powers of destruction.
Again Weirdboyz basically soak up all the low level psychic power other Orks generate to generate psychic attacks or powers - they're "collective" psykers. Tyranids are a bit similar too in this respect.

An interesting question is whether humans and Eldar (or Chaos cultists) could achieve similar effects to the "WAAAGH" effect (both on equipment and individuals) on some limited scale as well. If so, this may explain the various "prayers/litanies" and such you see in the Uplifting primer. Out of universe they are clear jokes, but in-universe they may be seen as a way to tap into the collective human psychic unconcious for minor "prayers" or psychic manifestations (making a lasgun more reliable or effective, insuring accuracy, luck, or whatever.)

Page 18
Gork and Mork are the Ork Gods, crude brawling figures in Ork legends who embody the spirit of the Waaagh! The Orks tel legends about how mighty Gork and Mork , about how Gork is the strongest thing in the 'ooniverse and Mork is the most cunning. Orks don't worship gork and Mork, or pray to them in times of adversity - they know that their gods are as likely to stomp all over puny little Orks as to pay any attention to them. The howls of gleeful Orks careering into a fight, the thunder of guns and the roar of explosions are more fitting prayers to Gork and mork. The Orks dedicate their constant battls and countless wars to their gods, and evne build monstrous smoke-belching war machines in their image - great metal idols called Gargants.
Orkish religion is very straightforward and pragmatic, in other words. Like all things about Orks. Gargants as objects of veneration perhaps eptiomzie the "wAAAGH" effect. This may explain why they can challenge titans despite (usually) being boiler driven (They soak up and tap the WAAAG heffect like WEirdboyz in a manner.) Hell it might even be a form of possession (Gargants channeling part of the Ork God's power) since most Orks believe they really are Gork/Mork in avatar form.

Page 19
Weirdboyz spend a lot of time drinking fungus beer which causes wild and colourful hallucinations to dance around their brains, so even when they are fully conscious they tend to be a bit strange. They are convinced that Gork and Mork are real, as they have seen them in their dreams, and that if they can call upon them when the spirit of the Waaagh! is great, they will avoid the inevitable head explosion. Many Weirdboyz manifest their psychic powers by chanting to Gork and mork, requesting one or another god's assistance in the battle.

...

Because the Weirdboy's fevered brain conjures such a spectacle while possessed of a massive amount of psyhcic energy a big green ectoplasmic foot may well descend to crush the enemy.
Again their "gods" mainfesting are liekly more due to hallucinations triggering psychokinetic/poltergeist activity (mentioned before.) The "Gods" bit is simply the mannersuch success is achieved, though I suppose it might possibly be a form of possession as well.

Page 21
Warpheadz are Weirdboyz who have survived enough battles for their minds to become totally saturated with Orky power. Whereas ordinary weirdboyz suffer agonising spasms when they use their powers Warpheadz hve been driven to the point that they actually enjoy it!

..

Warpheadz are quite unlike the morose Weirdboyz, being full of manic energy and overconfidence, recklessly plunging into the thickest fighting wherever they can. Warpheadz arae also possessed of a low cunning and often give their Minderz the slip.

..

Warpheadz are too useful to just boot out of the camp because they have become far more powerful than ordinary Weirdboyz by absorbing such prodigious amounts of energy and surviving.
Ork Librarians?
User avatar
Serafina
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5246
Joined: 2009-01-07 05:37pm
Location: Germany

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Serafina »

Actually, the theory that prayers can have a psionic effect would explain a lot.

We know that the guard issues prayers for nearly everything. We also know that these prayers seem to work from time to time.
We can explain this either by assuming that the people it works for have some minor psionic abilities - but that would be noticed, since the guard is screened for such things.
Or that devotion (or whatever you want to call it) can have a physical effect if there is some kind of focus.

These foci could either be a lot of "devotion", such as in the case of an Ork Waaagh or chaos-infested territory weaking the warp barrier, or nearby psionicans.

We can observe these foci-effects in orks and chaos cultists. Furthermore, we know that this "devotion" can create warp beings, so it clearly has an effect.
It also appears that soldiers fighting chaos or psionicans have a higher success rate with their prayers than these not doing so - regiments like the Cadians or Mordians seem to be favored in that way.
This could be explained that they simply are in better conditions more often, pariculary since they also happen to have a lot of psionicans in their ranks.

This may seem like speculation, but it fits a number of known mechanisms in 40K, such as Warp-Gods, Ork-powers and various miracles.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

More Dark Millenium.. a combination of psyker stuff and some more vehicle oriented stuff this time..


Page 22
The Grey Knights Chapter was the sole creation of the Second founding in the 31st Millenium. Legend has it that the Knights were created upon the direct orders of the Emperor to form a special Chapter of Space Marines dedicated solely to rootingout and destroying daemons in face to face combat.

..

bio-engineering and psycho-surgery were lavished on the Grey Knights at their inception to make them the hardiest and most loyal Space Marines ever created. In addition to the considerabel stoicism they share with their brother Space Marines the Grey Knights are heavily psycho-conditioned against the horrors of daemonic incursions and the whispered seductions of Chaos. Their lives are ones of self-denial and spartan purity, filled with rituals to strengthen the mind and the heart against the horrors they must face.

..

The Grey knights are based in a secret fortress-monastery on Titan, the largest of Saturn's moons. Here the young aspirants are sent to undergo hundreds of trials of both body and spirit. Finally the handful of survivors (for none who fail survive) are implanted with the Chapter's gene-seed and begin their real training. Their bodies are hardened to withstand pain and fear and their minds re disciplined to fight against the foul machinations of Chaos.
Grey Knights and their makeup. Note that like most Chapters, the recruits who actually make it in are implied to be small, making one wonder how they can suffer the attrition rates they typically do.

Page22
The fortress monastery also contains a unique repository of knowledge about the warp and Chaos which has been painstakingly pieced together by the Ordo Malleus down the millenia in the Librarium Daemonica. This gloomy and forbidding place contains tens of thousands of tomes of arcane lore and diabolism, cracked iwth age and heavy with the psychic evil they have brought upon the universe. Every Grey Knight carries the Chapter's sacred tome of battle rituals, the Liber Daemonicus, in a special ceramite case on his breastplate. This holy book contains the essential tenets of warp lore rendered from the dusty shelves of the Librarium Daemonica and is one of the Grey Knight's greatest weapons.
I'd suspect this is probably the biggest repository of knowledge outside of the Black Library, but that's largely supposition. I have always wondered though at the idea of them carrying a book around with highly dangerous (to others) information about daemons. You'd think they'd have it stored in the armor, or in a dataslate or maybe on some micro-book like we see the Vitrian Dragoons had in first and only.

Page 22
The majority of the Chapter's strength is scattered across the Imperium in fast ships guided by the finest navigators of the Navis Nobilite. These forces are typically organised in small teams that have trained and fought together for their entire lives.

..

Grey Knights may be stationed in the farthest reaches of the galaxy for decades at a time.
Grey knights have, relatively speaking, the best response times in the Imperium, which might set some benchmarks from the novels. Then again, we dont know where they are stationed or could be stationed, andits implied they're prtty widespread as well. You dont fuck around with daemon incursions.

Page 22
The Grey Knights are screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers. The strongest and purest of them are rigorously trained to combine their psychic abilities together into a gestalt power far greater than any of htem could muster individually.
Part of a Grey Knight's psychic resilience is because they ARE psykers. highly specialized psykers arguably, but still psykers. They also have good gestalt psychic powers.

Page 22
Squads of Grey knight Terminators are the utter bane of daemons who enter the material universe and one of the few forces strong enough to face a Greater Daemon and banish it back to the warp.
That says something I think if GK Terminators can throw a Greater Daemon back into the warp (which generlaly means destroying its host body as well). Then again that does depend on the Greater Daemon - Avatars of Khaine are supposedly equal to a Greater Daemon and Marneus Calgar and Gabriel Angelos both took one down. Nevermind what happened in GK if I Recall (A guard force taking a daemon down singelhandedly)

Page 22
Though the Grey Knights do have Librarians like other Space Marine chpaters (though considerably more powerful) they are unusual because all the Terminators of their First company possess a varying degree of psychic ability.
most if not all GK are psykers, again.

Page 26
Psychic energy is the raw mateiral of Chaos just as physical matter is the raw material of the galaxy.
difference between psychic energy and matter. Not sure if I'd say psychic power is literally "energY" since energy has no real physical form - given most descriptions I'd say the wapr is made up of either fairy dust, some gaseous matter or maybe a plasma analogue. My bet is on fairy dust.

Page 26
Many daemons have the power to twist psychic energy to their will, indeed the huge Greater Daemons are as adept at it as the mightiest of mortal psykers. Other daemons cannot use psychic powers on their own, but are capable of joining their energy together so that between them they can unleash a potent psychic attack.
Greater Daemons must be at least Alpha Psyker level then. This in turn suggests that in some ways a Primarch is Alpha psyker level, as well as the Avatar of Khaine. (also implying an ability to take down Titans, but I'm leery of that comparison, since Titans are not strictly psychic beings and it should still be possible for a Primarch to die if he gets plastered by a Titan barrage.)

The "gestalt" ability of lesser daemons is also interesting.

Page 28
Across the galaxy it is common practise to organise vehicles or support weapons into units on the battlefield. This makes it considerably easier for the commander to give orders and ensure that such valuable assets are not frittered away in innumerable pin-prick attacks for little gain.
organizatio nand useage of vehicles and artillery

Page 30
Improvements, upgrades, and special features are often added to a vehicle when it is built. Imperial command tanks are fitted with improved communications and detection gear as standard, for example.

..

Ultimately, though, it is the vehicle's crew that makes a stnadard battle tank or personnel carrier inton an individual fighting machine. They get hold of extra pieces of equipment or armour to upgrade the vehicles survivability (always of great interest to the crew), tinker with the engine to make it go faster and experiment with mounting different weapons.
Things of interest to note here are command vehicles always having sensor and detection gear "as standard", which is true through much of the fluff and novel material we see. Note as well we see reference to crews fiddlign with their vehicles, including increasing speed (which we have heard mentioned in the IA books, as well as the example of Salamander Scouts) - it does confirm that some vehicles can go (much) faster than the IA values indicate, anyhow.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Pre Holiday update.. we'll see if I update again before the end of the year.. And next to last update for Dark Millenium.

Page 32
Dreadnoughts are huge fighting machines which stand two or three times the height of a man and weigh several tons.

..

Dreadnoughts are often mistaken for robots or very large fighting suits. In fact they are similar in design to both yet the same as neither. Dreandoughts are quite unique because each one contains a single sentient creature whose nervous system is permanantly interfaced with the electro-fibre bundles and magna-coils which form the machine's 'muscles', enabling it to walk and balance iwth the ease of a living crature.
2nd edition dreadnought mateiral. mass of several tons (although how much you define several by is up to you, since they're pretty massive by IA standards) could imply anywhere from 3-6 meters, depending on your definition of average. (IA lists Dreadnougths as 3.7 m approximately, which would be heights from 1.2 to 1.85 m as "average" Imperial height. Since 1.2 Meters would be a "mere" 4 feet tall (and thus more appropriate to squats or ratlings), I'm inclined to believe closer to the other end of the scale. That would suggest the average Imperial human is a bit taller than most people on EArth (There are some as tall or taller depending on geographic region, though, so take this with a grain of salt.)

Also note the reference to "robots" or "fighting suits", implying the existence of both (which is another trait of second edition.)


Page 32
Dreadnoughts are complex machines, requiring special materials and skills to construct and all space marine dreadnoughts are revered in themselves because the art of their construction is almost lost.
They can rebuild and repair them, so I imagine they could at least build SOME kind of dreadnought, otherwise you'd think they'd have been lost by now. Its not as if Dreadnoughts haven't been destroyed and their occupants killed.

Page 32
The weapons mounted on the Space Marine Dreadnought are superficially similar to heavy weapons carried by Space marines or Space Marine Terminators.
However, Dreadnought weapon ssystems are superior in a number of ways because of their sturdier construction, increased ammunition capacity and improved targeting systems.

..

The Space Marine Dreadnoguth features a large ammo hopper holding many thousands of rounds of ammunition for its sutained-fire weapons. This is combined with a liquid nitrogen cooling system and a flexible powered ammof eed which literally pushes rounds into the weapon and extracts any dud rounds before they can block th breach.
Dreadnought weaponry comparable in ability to Devastator/Terminator weapons, but with better targeting and ammo capabilities (largely.) the bit about the cooling and loading systme is interesting too

Page 33
Though some older Space Marine Dreadnoughts carry a normal missile launcher, most have been upgraded to carry a specialist salvo-firing launcher capable of launching up to three missiles simultaneously. Unfortunately, the launcher has a slightly termperamental gidance systme which occaisonally locks on to only some, or none, of the extra designated targets.
Dreadnought verison of the Cyclone launcher I suspect.

Page 33
A normal melta weapon fires a fairly tight stream of energy which strikes the target and instantly super-heats it to a point where it vapourises explosively. The Space Marine Dreadnought mounts a multi-melta with a variable focus, able to broaden the energy beam. This sacrifices range and power to burn a wider area more throughly.

..

A Space marine Dreadnought armed iwth a multi-melta can opt to fire either a narrow beam with the effects of a stnadard multi-melta, or it can be fired on a broad focus with the same effects as a heavy flamer.

Usual melta energy description. The variable focus aspect is interesting in the terms of versatility (especially in terms of tradeoff) also a note a melta weapon basically acts like a sci fi flamer. lol

Page 33
The twin lascannon weapon systme features a sophisticated scanning system which can seperate and identify the diffrent components of a target. This system allows the Dreadnought to adjust its aim with pinpoint accuracy to strike the desired component.
Dreadnought targeting system. Note the emphasis on precision.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

And.. last installment for Dark Millenium. Next up.. not sure. I'll have to think on that. I have to say, Russes were alot more sophisticated in 2nd edition...

Page 37
The little rituals were as much part of life in the Leman Russ as the smell of their unwashed bodies and the constant maddening whirring and clicking of the defective air filtration fan.

..

"Havne't you fixed that filtration fan yet?[

..

"Oiled the parts with the sacred unguents. Said all the right prayers. Even got the Chaplain to bless the rotor blades.

"air filtration unit" inside the Russ. Might be a sort of cooling system as well.

Page 37
They'd all been stuck in the tank for three days now with no chance to wash or shave.
The Russ has been running (admittedly at an unknown speed) for 3 days. Assuming running at max speed off road (~24 kph as in Imperial armour) it would imply they've covered 864 km. It might be a fraciton of that (400 km, or less) depending on the speed or the possibility of rest, but I don't recall any indicaiton of them having stopped.

Page 37
"Just a thought," said Eriksonn, returning to the task of checking the power systems of the turet's battle cannons. "Howler, you check the feed-lines of the cannon like I asked you?"
This battle cannon has a power system, suggesting it doesn't need conventional propellant, ro that it can "boost" the effecitveness of the chemical propellant. Perhaps an electrothermal or Electrothermal-chemical weapon, or something similar (like certain forms of needler rifle propulsion). It wouldn't neccearily be a railgun.

One would assume this is a more "high end" version of battle cannon though, and not neccesarily a common one.

Page 37-38
Outside the snows covered the ice plains. Inside the sealed shell of the Leman Russ it was warm as summer back home on Taurus Six.

..

Eriksonn had heard that some crews had been found frozen to death when the heating systems of their tanks had failed.
In addition to other systems, the Russ has its own heating units.

Page 38
Now they were not just five men who had been stuck in a confined space together for three days. Now they were a crew.
Again 3 days in the tank.

Page 38
Leif took a deep breath and prayed ot the spirit of his gun. slowly, as the power of the weapon took him over, the view through the eyes of the helmet changed. He now saw what the gun's targeter saw.

He saw the immense white snow drifts and the great hill that loomed before them. He saw the grey clouds, pregnant iwth the threat of another blizzard, racing through the sky overhead. He saw the other tanks in the unit, turning the nsow to slush with the heat of their engines, treads churning and sending showers of the white stuff spraying backward. He saw the hot air from exhaust vents form clouds.
A rather sophisticated targeting setup for the Russ's targeter.. not sure if its actually a MIU of some kind but it might be. 2nd edition tanks were pretty damn high tech compared to modern 40K (especially in contrast ot the Imperial armour stuff)

Page 38
He ran the hull lascannon through all the post invocation checks. He swivelled it left and right, he fed small amounts of power through the barrel, and felt the element respond. He muttered activation runes and the litany against misfiring. The gun responded as if it were his own arm.

..

"Main Battlecannon seems a little off-centre," said Eriksonn. "Don't know if I'll be able to hit anything with this piece of junk. Howler, you sure you checked the gyroscopes."
Hull lascannon can turn, at least a little. Battlecannons use gyroscopes for something.. gyro stabilization of the gun, I would guess.

Page 38
"The tank bounced again as it raced downhill towards the enemy formation. Carefully Leif sighted on an approaching Ork battelwagon.

"Fire at will," said the Chief. Leif opened fire. The battlewagon exploded, turning to a tumbling heap of disintegrating metal, rolling side over side until it came to rest.
Russ vs Ork Battlewagon.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Next update: stepping back a bit earlier into the rogue trader (quasi canon?) era with the Compendium - one of the Chapter approved suppelments circa 1989. First up a big ol dose of Space Marines:


page 7
AT the same time, the specially engineered hormones encourage the forming bones to absorb ceramic-based chemicals administered in the Marine's diet.
Space Marine bones have a "ceramic" component imbued to them, possibly with other chemicals/minerals added in. Likely meant to both reinforce the skeleton to support the strain that their enhanced strength put son theri body, as well as reinforcing the protective properties of the ribcage shield they grow to protect their organs.

Page 8
After five years the neck (progenoid) gland is mature and ready for removal. After ten years the chest gland becomes mature and is also ready for removal.
Apparently it is possible to remove the progenoids before the death of a marine. One wonders why they do not. Possibly they gain something from continued attachment to the body to offset the possibility of loss - otherwise its got some special religious significance, perhaps.

Page 9
Black Carapace. This is the last and most distinctive implant. It looks like a film of black plastic when its growing in the tanks. This is removed from its culture-solution and cut into sheets which are implanted directly beneath the skin of the Marine's torso. Within a few hours the tissue expands, hardens on the outside, and sends invasive neural bundles deep inside the Marine. After severla months the carapace will have fully matured and the recipient is then fitted iwth neural sensors and transfusion points cut into the hardened carapace. These artificial "plug in" points mesh with features integral to the powered armour, such as monitoring, medicinal, and maintenance units. Without the benefit of a black carapace a Space Marine's armour is relatively useless.
Implantation and fusing of the black carapace.

Page 9
According to their charter, each Chapter is obliged to send 5% of its genetic material to the Adeptus Mechanicus on Mars. This 'tithe' has two purposes. Firstly, it enables the Adeptus Mechanicus to monitor the health of each Marine Chapter. Secondly, it enables the Adeptus Mechanicus to store gene-seed with a view to founding new Chapters.

A new Chapter cannot be founded overnight. A single suitable gene-seed must be selected for each zygote. Zygotes are then grown in cultures and implanted into human test-slaves. These test-slaves must be biologically compatible and free from mutation. Test-slaves spend their entire lives bound in static experimental capsules. Although conscious, they are completely immobile, serving as little more than mediums within which the various zygotes can develop. From the original slave come two progenoids, which are implanted within two more slaves, from which come four progenoids and so on. It takes about 55 years of constant reproduction to produce 1,000 healthy sets of organs. These must be officially sanctioned by the Master of Adeptus Mechanicus and then by the High Lords of Terra speaking for the Emperor. Only the Emperor can give permission for the creation of a new Chapter.
The implication here is that you only need one of the set of progenoids in an Astartes to create a new Marine. Basically its a redundancy measure, which makes sense given the risks and dangers they face, and likely cuts down on the potential loss of a set (one at least can hopefully be recovered) as well as providing extra that can be stored as a future buffer against catastrohpe or loss.
It's not made clear whether or not the tithe is a ongoing thing, a one time event, or both. Implication in other sources though is that it is done peridoically (There are Chapters who have been threatened for not providing it to the AdMech, eg the Black Dragons)
This passage also sets the formation of a new chater at approximately 55 years or so, with the implied statement that their equipment and starship would be available int hat time (presumably including rare stuff like Dreadnoughts, battlebarges, etc.)
Page 9
A Marine usually joins the ranks between the ages of 16-18. Pressures during wrtime may accelerate the procecss
Ages and implantation time do have some mutability in them to allow for emergencies, although its unlikely they would go back to "Heresy era" practacies unless things were extremely dire since they often blame those practices as bieng one of the factors that lead to the HEresy.
Page 10
For example, a Marine can control his senses and nervous system to a remarkable degree, and can consequently endure pain that would kill an ordinary man. A Marine can also think and react at lightning speeds. Memory training is an important part of the indoctrination too. Some Marines develop photographic memories. Obviously, Marines vary in intelligence as do other men, and their individual mental abilities vary in degrgee.
Space Marine ability confirms a measure of biological degree over their body, as well as some mental abilities not often considered (the photographic memory would be a useful trait, for example. memorizing maps, instruction manuals, etc.)

Page 11
Also known as Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Terminator exo-armour is a development of the sealed enviroment suits used by spaceship crews, Space Pirates, and in many other lethal situations.
Exo Armour is constructed from heavy-gauge plasteel plating, forming an armoured shell that can withstand even the colossla impact of high-speed orbital micro-debris. It is the only readily available armour suitable for working inside the high-pressure casings of plasma reactor shields, or the extremely corrosive enviroments inside the holds of bulk chemical carriers. These same qualities, suitably enhanced by the Adeptus Mechanicus, make Terminator armour virtually invulnerable to most weapons.
bog standard description of terminator and dreadnought armor.
Page 11
All Terminator suits contain their own independent power supply and enclosed life-support systems. Marine Terminator suits are heavily armed and also carry teleport homers, bio-scanners, energy scanners, auto-senses, suspensors and targeters for their weapons and communicators.

The Communicators carried in Terminator suits are specially rigged to carry visual as well as auditory signals. This means that any member of a Terminator squad can tune in one of his comrades, and see exactly what he sees through his own auto-sense unit. Although all Terminator suits are capable of broadcasting, to avoid confusion it is usual for only the Sereant's suit to send out visual messages.
Terminators apparently carry gear that is far more sophisticated than even regualr power armor - complex sensor capabilities and targetins ystems, suspensors to offset weight (this may account for some rare or suprising bits of agility seen like in the novel Warrior Brood), and homing beacons. What's more they have the facility to share visual and audio informatio with one antoher through their suits and through auto senses - a useful ability.

Page 15
This awesome weapon (assault cannon) is a motorised, multi-barreled autocannon that can pour out hundreds of shells per second. Although the weapon is made from a special ceramite alloy which conducts almost no heat, the barrels still reach temperatures of over 300 degrees. Due to the high rate of wear on the barrels, assault cannon are regarded as disposable and are generally discarded after a mission.
Rate of fire of assault cannon, and the temperature which they typically operate at. Liek msot machine guns, the barrels are meant to be disposable repalced due to strain of sustained fire.

Page 15
The Chain Fist - essentially a power glove with a built in heavy chainsword - is designed to slice a Terminator sized hole through almost any substance in a matter of seconds, using the energy of a power field to turn an activated chain.
Godo old Chainfist and its capability.

Page 15
All weapons carried by Marines in Terminator armour (storm bolters, assault cannon, etc.) are equipped with suspensors and targeters as standard.
Standard modifications on terminator weaponry.

Page 18
Terminator armour may be equipped with a refractor field - a defensive field that deflects an attack by refracting energy around the target.
Terminator armor can carry shielding. Useful in combat especially at close quarters.

Page 18
Terminator Armour may be modified to incorporate a grenade harness consisting of six one-shot grenade launchers. As grenades are very small - about the size of a marble - the grenade harness does not encumber the user at all.[
A neat capability considering they also have the multi-shot missile launcher, although rarely seen in any modner sources. The small compact size of the grenades implies a fairly sohpsiticated explosives tech too (smaller than those coin grenades)
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Next Compendium update.. dealing with the Guard, Ogryns, Dreadnoughts and (interesting to me) VEhicles. I like to note how "up teched" the vehicles are here, including the possibility of having shields as well as automated systems. Not that this is neccesarily even possible in modern 40K ( a retcon of sorts) or would even be common if it were, but its interesting to contemplate the possibilities (or what were.. after all nothing doesnt suggest that an earlier edition of 40K couldnt be used as "canon" for the debates - that could correspond to different "eras" the same with Star Wars.)

Page 44
it is rarely practical to recruit from the homeworld to make up for combat losses. The Guard therefore uses various other methods of bringing regiments up to strength, depending on the circumstances: Amalgamating depleted regiments into a single fighting force is common practice, especially when the regiments are being constantly transproted to new battle zones. Regiments that are left to garrison a world they have conquered, on the other hand, recruit from local sources - the most common method (and by far the safest on hostile planets) is to draft the sons of the regiment into the Guard when they come of age.
the whole "recruiting from homeworld" being impracticla stuff. As a rule this tends to vary from author to author, a number of regiments actually do (Cadians, Valhallans, Vostroyans, etc.) One possibility is that it depends on timeframe. In an active warzone time and resources may not neccesarily permit the transfer of sufficient forces to replace losses, so it is just easier to consolidate fragments of regiments into a whole new one than bother with the time and effort of training newer recruits.

Garrison troops seem to have the option fo recruiting from local sources, although as we have seen in the Ghosts novels its possible in certain circumstances for offensive armies to do this as well.

Page 49
Ogryns are generally half as tall again as the average human. They ar emore heavily bilt, even in proportional terms, with a muscle mass to height ratio almost twice that of a Human. Their bones are heavy, and their skin is thick, with few sensory nerves.

...

In response to the generally barren nature of their home planets, Ogryns have developed a digestive system which is capable of deriving nutrition from almost any organic substance. Their capacity for eating - far in excess of that of a normal Human - derives from the need to eat everything available when food is found, and store it against the long fast until more food is discovered.
This means Ogryns would be about 8-9 tall (space Marine height). Orgyn seem to have a highly efficient digestive system reminiscient of the Astartes, as well as a highly developed ability to store food.

Page 49
the basic appearancec of an Ogryn is that of an oversized and coarsely-formed Human. They stand 2 1/2 - 3 metres tall, and are very heavily built by Human standards. Limbs are short and heavy, and hands are large and clumsy looking.

Ogryns hae large heads - the thick bone of the skull often makes them look disproportionately large by Human
standards
Again roughly Space Marine size here, and implied to have very dense bone (like Marines and Orks.)

PAge 49
[
In keeping with the mediaeval level of technology of their [Ogryn] homeworlds; skins, coarse cloth and chain mail armour are comon,
Primitive armor often but most Orgryn have been shown to wear flak in modern times, with some carapace in some cases (Nork Deddog)

Page 51
the lure of regular rations and adventure on worlds whose climates are seldom harsher than home is enough to keep millions of Ogryns flocking to join the Guard.
"millions" of Ogryn in the Guard. although this is likely an approximation at best. Given the "billions" typically stated we might say 1:1000 ratio, or perhaps even 1:100,000 ratio (more likely - billions instead.)

Page 51
Ogryns do not follow the usual Imperial Guard practice of raising a whole Regiment from a single homeworld. Instead, they are attached to Guard Regiments of normal Humans, according to Administratum instructions. Imperial Guard Ogryn are invariably organised into squads of five.
Ogryn are specialists obviously, so they follow specialist practices.

Page 51
Each Ogryn squad has a seargent-Ogryn leader, who has been subjected to ADeptus Mechancius brain-enhancement biochem, or BONE treatment (Biochemical Ogryn Neural Enhancement.) OGryn leaderas are known as BONEheads, a title which they bear with considerable pride. BONEheads are able to be educated to a limited degrree in small-unit tactics and the operation of equipment such as communicators and weapons like the ripper gun.
Specialized kinds of enhancement, suggested to be less mechanical and more chemical (although some might do mechanical if needed.)

Interestingly enough, in the older times Ogryn were "less sophisticated" and ripper guns were unusual, whereas in modenr sources Ogryn use the Ripper gun frequently. The inference we could draw from this is that Ogryns may be being genetically or chemically "manipulated" for greater intelligence - or perhaps the "enhanhced Ogryns like Nork are just favored for their greater intelligence (like Nork again, who was returend to his homeworld) and breeding invariably resulted in smarter Ogryn. This means a "bone head" Ogryn is likely to be able to use better weaponry (thus explaining examples of Ogryn using grenade launchers, heavy support weapon./cannon, etc.)

Page 51
They [Ogryns] are trained in the use of grenades, but the normal grrenade types are too small for their large, clumsy hands. Instead they are issued with a specially-designed Ogryn frag grenade, which takes the form of a metal cylinder six to eight inches long and two to three inches in diameter with a ring-pull arming mechanism at one end.

BONEheads may be issued with the Fragmentation autogun (Ogryn), universeally known as the Ripper Gun. This is a drum-fed, large-bore automatic shotugn firing heavy shot. Its limited range is no great disadvantage givejn OGryn preference for close assaults, and at short ranges its effects are devastating.

Armour varies widely. In general, the supply of advanced armour types in Ogryn sizes is limited, and most Imperial Guard Ogryns wear primitive armour brought with them from their homeworld. This is a mixture of chain, plate, and the hides of exceeptionally resilient homeworld creatures, such as the Armidillian Plate Lizard. Limited supplies of Ogryn-sized flak and mesh armour are available to some Imperial Guard Regimetns, and this is generally issued only to BONEheads.
Ogryn equipment. Bigger (and assumedly more powerful) grenades, the infamous Ripper Gun, and armour. It is interesting that a "fragmentation" ability is noted on the Ripper gun - perhaps some or most of the ammo is some sort o fshrapnel or flechette rather than pellet or shot, or it has an explosive quality. (likely the former than the latter.)

The armor bit again indicates that flak or mesh is availalbe in "limited quantities" and only to "Bone Heads" - suggesting that the evolving commonality of flak suggest smarter ogryn are more common).

Page 52
However, BONEheads do have the degree of intelligence required to drive a Rhino APC, and some units of the Imperial Guard hae specially converted "open-top" Rhinos for transporting Ogryn squads.
Heh. Some Ogryn can drive. That would be something to see. The open topped bit is understandable given their fear of dark enclosed spaces (apparently)

Pge 57
The powerplant that lies at the heart of each Dreadnought may be a crystal battery, a nuclear engine, a polarising gravitic bed, or a conventional combustion engine. The actual technology used is not strictly important except, of course, in terms of refuelling and supply. Crystal batteries are commonly used by Human and Eldar, whilst Ork machines normally employ combustion engines.
Variations in Dreadnought powerplants.


Page 57 - The shell of the dreadnought is made from tough ceramite mouldings.

..

Ceramite begins life as a thin white liquid which is injected into moulds under pressure. The mould is gradually heated to 300 degrees and then allowed to cool. The moulding is then both tough and durable.[/quote]

Early edition description of Ceramite formation. I'm sure this is a real life analogue to something but wht would escape me without further research.

PAg 57
Imperial and Eldar dreadnoughts are further protected by armoured plates made from adamantium. This material is produced in the proceessing factories in orbit around Mars a well as on Eldar craft-worlds. Each wheel-shaped factory consists of a vast spinning centrifuge several kilometres across. The inside of the rim is maintained at a constantly high temperature by plasmas held in place by magnetic fields. Only under these conditions is it possible to melt adamantium so that it flows into moulding chambers built on the outside of the factory rim.
Adamantium formation, along with the oft-mentioned "plasma" forged bit. This would, I think, further reinforce the idea 40K materials are different and liekly better than our own (at least in regards to thermal properties.)

Page 59
Communicators with a 50 mile transission/reception radius are fitted to all Dreadnoughts.
Dreadnoughts have the same comms range as Space MArine and other communicators of this era.

Page 80
The shot throws the vehicle to one side, turning it over until it lands on its (1,2,3) side or (4,5,6) back. The vehicle should be moved d6" away from teh source of a hit, or in a random direction if this is not appropriate.
Game stats, but its interesting to take possible note of as where all the "weapons fire knocking vehicle around" may come from.

Page 81
Power fields of 1" radius are assumed to cover the entirety of any small or medium vehicle. A large vehicle requires a 2" radius field. Power fields of larger radii may be fitted...

A vehicle may carry several different shields, although only one may be active at any time.

....

The presence of a Power Field around a vehicle does not affect its movement, nor does it make any diffrence to the result of a collision with another vehicle. The field is designed in such a way that it flows around obstacles in its path, otherwise the vehicle would be in permanant collision with irregularities in the terrain.
An interesting vehicle modification "back in the day" - shielded vehicles. The interesting bit is that its implied that such fields may be semi-intelligent in some manner - as they can differentiate between different kinds of obstacles (IE weapons fire as opposed to terrain)

PAge 82
Land Raiders are delivered to the Space Marines, the Imperial Guard, the Inquisition, the Adeptus Arbites, to certain Rogue Traders and to other more secret and obscure Imperial bodies.
As we've noted before, everyone and their dog used Land Raidres back then. Nowdays the story is different and only the Astarrtes (nmostly) get Land Raiders thanks to Imperial armour.

Page 85
The Predator is a mobile weapons platform built around the solid frame of the Rhino armoured personnel carrier. It is a standard Rhino variant, and is constructed in large numbers by the Adeptus Mechanicus for use by the Space Marines and Imperial Guard.
While Rhinos and PRedators are mostly Space MArine vehicles, it is known for a few sources to indicate the Guard or orelated units using them. Probabyl as light tanks, and the ones they have may not be as sophisticated as the one the Astartes use.

Page 85
The Primary features of the Predator are its three main weapons systems: a turret-mounted auto-cannon and two las-cannon inside sponsons. With its smoke launchers and turret bolt gun, this givest he PRedator a formidable array of weaponry, ideal for its battlefield role as an assualt tank.

The Predator is widely used to hunt down and eliminate enemy vehicles and Dreadnoughts. The turret mounting of its auto-cannon allows the Predator to keep a target in its sights while moving swifty forward, spearheading an assault or breaking through an enemy flank.

The Predator will usually carry a crew of four (Driver and three gunners) but, like the Rhino and Land Raider, its auto systems enable it to function without a crew if neccecssary. The crew are wired into their machine and are unable to leave the predator during the battle - it takes too long to unstrap them from their tight harnesses and unplug them from the snaking pipes and cables that engulf them. Some crewmen, as a punishment for insubordination, are hardwired into thier vehicles and are only released after an exceptional show of valour.

...

There is not enough room to carry squads of Marines or Guardsmen inside a Predator, but up to five passengers may be carried if neccessary.
More on the Predator's armmanets and systems. The ability to fire on the move is interesting, as is the mention of autos ystems (which wsa more common in the earlier editions) and the ability for more then just Land Raiders to function without crews. The ability of the crewmen to "plug in" (MIUs?) is also an interesting note.

Page 86
A single bolt gun is fastened to the cupola on top of the turret, and has its own 360-degree fire arc. The cupola may swivel independently of the main turret, and so it is not affected by which way the auto-cannon is pointing.
Early pintle mount weapon.

Page 86
Preadators are fitted with the following as standard:

1" power field and power field synchroniser.

Auto-aim, auto-drive, and auto-fac

Ejector seats

4 targeters for auto-cannon, both las-cannon, and cupola-mounted bolter.

Communicator

Sensor package (bio-scanner, ,energy scanner, rad counter)

medi-pack.
[/quote][/quote]

Predator equipment outfit. Note the power field system, auto systems and targeters and sensor package. Pretty damn sophisticated back then.
User avatar
andrewgpaul
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2270
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:04pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by andrewgpaul »

Connor MacLeod wrote: Page 57 - The shell of the dreadnought is made from tough ceramite mouldings.

..

Ceramite begins life as a thin white liquid which is injected into moulds under pressure. The mould is gradually heated to 300 degrees and then allowed to cool. The moulding is then both tough and durable.
Early edition description of Ceramite formation. I'm sure this is a real life analogue to something but wht would escape me without further research.[/quote]

Possibly the methods used by GW to manufacture the miniatures. :)
"So you want to live on a planet?"
"No. I think I'd find it a bit small and wierd."
"Aren't they dangerous? Don't they get hit by stuff?"
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Next update... running a bit late


Page 96
The Legio (Cybernetica) is responsible for the care and construction of all Robots thrroughout the Imperium. Robots may be used by all kinds of Army and Marine forces, but they are always under the Legio's final control.

..

The Legio is organised into several thousand cohorts, although only a percentage of these is ever active at any one time. Each cohort is in turn organized into maniples of three, four or five robots plus a legion tech adept. The number of maniples in a cohort varies, but it is rarely more than 100. However a cohort is usually spread across an entire Marine force ofs everal Chapters or a single Army. Battles involving more than 4 or 5 maniples are rare.
Robot "Legions" - ultimately descirbed as a mechnaical allied force (like Titans) under AdMech control. Implied scope of a Legion is "many" - tens or hundreds of thousands, or even millions of "robots" - each seems roughly analogous to a Dreadnought.

Page 97
The Inquisition has also put Cohorts of the Legio to good use. Robots are, by their very natures, utterly incorruptible.
This is.. debatable. They cannot be turned in some ways organic beings can (Bribed or anything) but as we know from First and Only, their physical structures can be infected or warped.

Page 97
Like a Dreadnought, a Robot is the product of many advanced technologies which have produceed its armoured shell, its artificial muscle and nerve bundles, its cortex, power plant, weapons control sysems, equipment interfaces, and cortex.

...

Many Robots components are identical (or nearly so) to dreadnought parts.

..

What makes a Robot different from an unoccupied Dreadnought suit is its cortex. This is an artificial brain of sorts, which is constructed from artificial proteins and enzymes. This cortex is imprinted with simple maintenance and movement routines - a rudimentary "mind.".
Again Robots = Dreadnoughts without the pilot. The interesting thing is that the "brain" described may in fact sound almost organic, or quasi-organic - more like a cloned servitor than anything else although it might be a synthetic "brain" too (Imperial tech is weird that way.)

Page 101
Organic camoflage systems give a Robot a clone--skin of human flesh, allowing it to pass for human.
The AdMech apparently have their own Terminators.

Page 101
In many situations a Robot may be less effective than a living creature, even though its reflexes are just as fast, its aim is just as true, and it is often strronger, tougher and harder to "kill" than a person.
Advantages and disadvantages of a Robot. The reason the Robot may be less effective is, of course, its following preprogrammed instructions, rather than being completely autonomaous (rather interesting given the auto systems a vehicle can use. This would suggest the limitation is more of a deliberate design.)


Page 106
A robot need not have a cortex and a program to operate. IT can act as the slave of a master Robot, receiving ordrs by communicator.
Some robots are "linked to" and directed by other robots, a feature that is rather analogous to what some Necrons troops do.

PAge 129
Recruits (Astartes) are taken mainly from feral or hive worlds, but occasionally civilised worlds produce suitable individuals.
Sources of Astartes soldiery.

Page 137
A Power Shield is a thin sheet of plasteel with a very small Power field gnerator incorporated into the design The generator produces a small field sufficient to cover the surface of the shield.

The form of the Power shield varies considerably from Chapter to Chapter. For example, the Crimson Fists favor coffin-shaped shields, while the Blood Angels use a cruciform shield and the Iron Fists bear shields moulded into the shape of a medeviel armoured gauntlet.
Powerfield enhancned shields. The shapes are, to me, amusing.

Page 143
The Imperial Guard makes up the vast bulk of the Imperial Military machine; recruited from the planetary defence forces of the Imperium's millions of worlds, ,it is a huge military force of Humans and Abhumans.
IG forces recruited from "millions" of worlds.

Page 143
Precise numbers vary, but most Imperial Guard Regiments are raised with a strength of 2,000-6,000 men.
Here, 2,000-6,000 is considered more of an "Average" or "standard", but variation is allowed.

PAge 144
The lex imperial de munimenta publica lays down that each planet shall raise and maintain a planetary defence force, and a further Imperial decree provides that these planetay defence forces shall provide recruits for the Imperial Guard.

Recruitment for the Imperial Guard creams off the elite of the planetary defence forces, according to a series of quotas set by the Administratum. Using a complex system of probability computations and battle forecasts backed up by the Imperial Tarot, the Administratum issues a requirement for troops, which is passed down to the Imperial Commanders of individual planets. The Imperial Commander can then formulate his population control policy for the next generation around the Administratum's requirements for Imperial Guard troops and his own requirements for labour.

Quotas are normally set each generation, but in times of great need the Administratum may require a planet to supply two or more raisings from a single generation. During the wars of the Horus Heresy, for example, Necromunda was required to provide dozens of separate raisings, supplying the guard with hundreds of millions of troops total. Many hive worlds suffered similar burdens, while at the other end of the scale, many agricultural and feral worlds were almost entirely stirpped of their meagre populations, and had to be left for several generatiosn in order for their populations to recover.
A bit of interesting fluff... the bit about taking the "best" of the PDF forces isn't new, but all the bit about forecasts and population planning is interesting, as it suggests the Imperium (with the collusion of its commanders) takes an active and long-term role in shaping and directing population growths for both military and industrial purposes (which makes some sense.)

Of course there are always still emergneices, and noting that "hundred of millions" of troops (each of dozens of separate raisings) was required of Necromunda nad other hive worlds is interesting. Considering that there are literally tens of thousands of Hives in the Imperium that leads to trillions of troops from them alone.

Page 144
On hive worlds such as Necromunda, it is common to draft entire street gangs into the planetary defence force - in effect, to legitimise their activities and give them formal control over an area. The most successful of these, and some are so successful as to threaten the long-term stability of a wide area, are drafted as complete platoons or companies inot the Imperial Guard.
It may seem odd to make "street gangs" a military force, but it is wise to remember that your average Necromunda street gang has access to military grade equipment as a rule and tends to employ them frequently (rifles, grenades, machine guns, etc.) This does not mean, of course, they are the SOLE elements of the PDF - the mid and upper levels have their own militaries after all. Also there is still going to be certain qualitative differences - lack of communications and other important gear that the Guard take for granted, etc.

Page 145
However, in many Regiments the Guardsmen's offspring are brought up within the Regiment, and are recruited when they come of age. Until that time, they perform menial and support duties, and may fight as a probitor unit alongside the rest of the Regiment.
Something we've seen in the Ghosts novels, for example. Not likely to provide a steady source of recruits, but possibly it would provide troops who are "from home."

Page 145
Because of the lack of ongoing recruitment, it is common for Regiments to become severely depleted, and it is thought that a great many Imperial Guard regiments are currently at less than half their founding strength. In some cases, such as the 22/4 Valeria, two or more Regiments serving on a world amy be combined to form a new Regiment; which is given the name of the base world if its parent Regiments came from different homeworlds.[]/quote]

An interesting implication that experienced/veteran regiments, unless newly formed, are rarely at full strengh due to attrition, an interesting reminder that the term "Regiment" is largely an adminsitrative abstraction for record keeping purposes. I do wonder how long a regiment might remain "depleted" until they lump it together with one or more other regiments, though.


Page 146
Recruits to the Imperial Guard are already partially trained by virtue of their service with the planetary defence forces form which they are recruited. Advanced training, weapon cross-training and various drills take place during the long voyage from the Regiment's homeworld to their posting. Since it is Imperial policy to post Imperial Guard units well away from their homeworld in order to minimise the risk of revolt, these voyages can take months or even years. By the time an Imperial Guard unit arrives at its destination, it is a highly trained and cohesive force, ready for almost any eventuality.
PDF troops recruited into the Guard need further training to reach Guard standards, although what kind of "training" this is I don't know.

Also a reference that Guard troops are garrisonned on distant planets to limit uprising. also note the voyage distance taking "months or years" - although the distance isnt known. Logically it would be subsector or sector scale in most cases (ie less than 200 LY) suggesting a FTL speed of only a few thousand c tops for such voyages, more likely few hundred c or less. If we use the older "hundreds or thousands of light years between worlds" it might go up to tens of thousands of c, though. As a rule I tend to regard the greater distances as "inter-sector" travel distances, and sectors tend to be single or double digit Light years between planets at most, and the bulk of Guard forces will probably remain in the Sector. On the other hand, its likely that "inter sector" transport will also be used, which is naturally slower than the truly stellar (nevigator equipped) types.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Last compendium update. Just gonna throw it all out there just to finish it up.. enjoy...

Page 147
They [servitors] are selected from various sources - Penal Battalions, planetary reformatories, captured rebel forces and other sources of unwanted manpower - and then brain-scrubbed, physically adapted if neccessary, and given intesive biochem and training.
Potential sources for srevitor recruits.


Page 147
Servitors are able to operate their machines without thought, by instinctive resposne resulting from their intensive training and modificatrion, and a single Servitor can perform the functions of two normal crewmen.
This provides one possible reason for why Servitors are used over other crewmen - they're more efficient. On the other hand, this comes at a cost in versatility since most Servitors in my experience are "mono task" whereas a human crewman can at least be cross-trained (to some extent) and also augmented if need be.


Page 147
Sanctioned Psykers are often attached to Command Sections of Imperial Guard Platoons.
A detail that remains largely unchanged in modern times.


Page 147
Penal Battallions are part of the Regular fighting force of the Imperial Guard, and a commander who regards Penal Battalion troops merely as cannon fodder and uses them wastefully is liable to end up in a Penal Battalion himself.
despite being military criminals, back then (at least, although arguably it could apply now) even the waste of Penal battalion troops was considered wrong by Guard standards, so I doubt deliberately wasting regular troops in most cases is not considered "the rule".


Page 152
The auxilliary grenade launcher is a one-shot weapon, consisting of a simple tube mounted on a standard-issue lasgun which uses a gas charge to fire a single grenade. AGLs may be issued to troops equipped with lasguns.
Grenade launchers affixed to (Guard) weapons are single shot.


Page 152

- as a note, the Guard have power shields as well.


Page 153
Ogryn Leaders are equipped with the ripper gun, a drum-fed, large-bore automatic shotgun firing heavy shot.
Ripper guns have, of course, become more common among the Guard.


Page 153
Ogryn grenades explode as normal frag grenades but with a -1 saving throw modifier due to the larger size and greater quantity of explosive and shrapnel.
Ogryn of ocurse carry bigger, nastier grenades.


Page 153
This is a laser-powered needle rifle, reserved for the use of Imperial Assassins and Ratling Snipers. The rifles have long barrels and are quite bulky;

...

Sniper rifles function in the same way as lasguns, but also project a microscopically thin sliver of crystal which is driven by the tight photon stream and enters the body of the target through the wound made by the laser. On striking the target, the crystal dissolves into a powerful neurotoxin, which affects the target immediately.
Sniper rifles are a modification/upgrade of a lasgun to incorporate teh "crystal sliver" firing bit. Again we note that the "laser" provides propulsive effect to the needle somehow, but also punched the hole into the target to allow the needle penetration.

this indicates that lasguns are photoni weapons, or at least were back then (We still have ABnett Brand Lasguns now remember, not to mention Abnett Brand Needlers.)


Page 162
Originally designed as a light scout vehicle for reconnaisancee and guard duty, the Sentinel is often pressed into battlefield service. Combining the mobility of the Rough Riders with the firepower of a Dreadnought, it is employed where mobile patrols must be mounted across rough terrain, or where firepower must be deployed rapidly in repsonse to a threat.
Sentinels are depicted as a cross between a rough rider and a dreadnought, suggesting comparable speed to cavalry (and a sort of cavalry role themselves) as well as considerable firepower (which may be one reason why the Guard doesnt need or bother with Dreadnoughts, even disregarding the technical limitations preventing their use nowadays)


Page 162
The Sentinel is armed with a compact multi-laser (plus targeter) on a forward swivel mount, with a 90-degree forward fire arc.
Back then Sentinals were more standardized. To be of "Dreadnoguth" scale though that multi laser must be pretty darn powerful though.

Page 165
To this day, Squat hydroponic plants, developed with Eldar help, are among the most efficient food sources in the Imperium.
Squat tech seems to have been developed (in some ways) with Eldar assistance in the past, possibly explaining why it is both better than Imperial stuff and why the Imperials couldn't always figure it out. One wonders if the Imperials ever adopted Squat hydroponics tech, although the quote implies they may still be using it (though this may still be assuming "Squats in the Imperium" era of things too)


Page 167
The Squat Home Worlds are almost unique in the Imperium, as they are not directly controlled by the Administratum. Instead, they are allowed a certain amount of autonomy, being ruled by their Stronholds and LEagues just as they were before the age of discovery.
...
The racial character of the Squats - hard-working, tenacious, honourable, ,and inimical to alien races - is almost perfect from the Imperial point of view, and the Imperium is content to allow them a great degree of self-government.

...

In exchange for their comparative freedom, the Home Worlds provide troops for the Imperial forces, and trade their mineral wealth exclusively with the Imperium - trade that has made the Squats a wealthy race. They also undertook at the start of the Age of Rediscovery to allow the Adeptus Mechancius unrestricted acess to their techonology; it is significant that the Squat Home Worlds have a higher incidence of working Standard Template Construct equipment from the Dark Age of Technology than any other group of worlds known to Humanity.
Despite what this says, it is not unusual for the Imperium to offer autonomy to its members - although squats are and probably were the only autonomous abhumans ever (before they broke way in second ediiton that is - although the distinction between Imperial membership and mere alliance is a narrow one anyways.) The Astartes and AdMech are "self governing" after all, and one could even argue they aren't wholly "human"....

Squats also had a great deal more STC tech witht hem which (along with their engineering mindset) probably also helped explain their better tech than the Imperium - one wonders why this didn't rub off on the AdMech despite having "unrestricted access." I also start to wonder if the extinction of the Squats was the fault of the AdMech - wouldnt surprise me if it is as it woudl be something they would do to hold their tech monopoly (or exapnd it - they would easily believe themselves entitled to the tech the Squats had)


Page 168
The League of Emberg, for instance, consists of four strongholds, while the powerful Kapellan League is made up of over 3 thousand.
thousands of strongholds at least. Or at least there were.


Page 172
Brotherhood troops are generally armed with lasguns, but the Squats have a characteristic fondness for heavy firepower, and heavy botlers are a favourite weapon. Most squads will heave at least one heavy weapon, and sometimes an entire squad may be equipped with heavy weapons.
Squats have more flexibility in their squad outfitting than the Guard.


Page 173
Carapace breastplates and helms give a basic saving throw of 5 or 6 on a D6.
Squats seem to wear partial carapace, or at least many can.


Page 173
Exo-armour combines features of both power armour and dreadnought arour. The extnesive protection it affords the wearer is especially useful when fighting in confined spaces where movement is restricted and it is difficult to avoid concentrated enemy fire.

..

Exo-armoru also serves as a hostile enviroment suit, and the baren surface of the home Worlds has certainly stimulated the development of this form of armour by the squats
Squat version of power armor.. probably a poor man's Terminator suit (although not neccesarily any less effective)


Page 177
Although the Legiones Astartes shun serving with Abhumans whereever possible, the Imperial Guard are quite prepared to serve alongside Squats. In return, Squat forces can often count on Imperial Guard contingents being available to support them. Indeed, of all the abhuman troops that the Imperial Guard may find themselves serving with, Squats are certainly perferred by most commanders because the Guard can count on their reliability, determination and technical experteise to make life on campaign alot easier.
Back then it would seem the Guard was less intolerant of some of its abhuman allies (along with one imagines the ratlings and possibly ins ome cases Ogryn.)


Page 184
A device known as a holo-suit, dathedi shield (Dathedi: "between colours", or visual disruption field, is incorproated into each Harlequin's body-suit; projecting a holographic field around the wearer's body. This produces various costume effects in performance, and operates in battle like a programmable form of cameleoline, breaking up the Harlequin's outline. Refractor and Conversion fields are also widely used as well. In addition the Death Jesters commonly wear carapace and other armour types.

To enhance their speed and agility, Harlequins are equipped with suspensor belts known as Flip Belts, Inertia pivots, or geirgilath (Eldar: "belt of speed") These devices allow the Harlequin to pviot effortlessly about hip-level, and permit undiminished use of their spectacular acrobatic abilities even when encumbered with battle-gear.
Harlequin gear.

Page 188
The warp-gates bound the Eldar togehter as a single civilisation, stretching across space and, it was theorised, backwards and forwards in time. The Eldar, fearful of the consequences, never experimented with the temporal aspect of the warp-gates.
A "proto" webway before it carried the name. One does wonder if chaos tries to infest so they cna more eaisly muck about with space and time.


Page 191
When the wearer is in motion, the field [holo suit] breaks up the outline of the figure using an enhanced form of disruptive camoflage. To the observer, the Harlequin appears to explode into a cloud of tiny, multicoloured fragments every time he moves, and when he remains stationary the fragments coalesce into a solid figure, like the pieces of a jigsaw. The greater the speed of movement, the greater the disruption of the image, and the wider the dispersion of the cloud fragments. The suit also has a cameleoline emulation program which is activated whenever the Harlequin is stationary; the total effect is a blurring cloud of colour, fading to nothing when it stops
More on Harlequin holosuits.


Page 192
Each bio-explosive shuriken consists of a shaped energy field containing a small amount of genetically tailored serum. They must be loaded individually, so a shruiken cannon loses its following-fire capability when using this type of ammunition.
Neat ammo, and shows what the Eldar are really capable of.

A model who is wounded doe snot die immediately, instead the serum works its way into the brain where it begins to replicate itself at a terrible pace. Sensory nerves are overloaded with every imaginable sensation at once, and the victor staggers..

....

.. the serum's activity has reached such a pitch that the victim's head explodes, cuasing d6 automatic strength-3 hits over a 3" burst radius.
[/quote][/quote]

Nasty, but neat.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Yet anothre return to "early" edition stuff between 1st and 2nd.. Rogue Trader compilation. The source is basically a bunch of WD articles compiled into a single source. This is way back in 1st edition still and the date for the book is 1991 (yellow cover with the Blood Angels and Dante on it) and mostly covers Imperium, Eldar and Genestealers. Notable (for me) in here is that it has breakdowns and descriptions of the "Heresy" era armor Marks, the refernces to which you still get even today even if the details may or may not be canonical.

Page 9
The bulk of Tacticla Dreadnought armour is such tht many conventional heavy weapons can be carried only with extreme difficulty. For the same reason, normal in-ligh-of-sight video interface targeters cannot be used effectively.
"targeters" (at least in Terminator armor) seem to be sophisticated electronic deviecs with a "video interface" and such. Whether this applies to others isnt known.


Page 9
Among the heavy weapons available to Terminator squads is the Cyclone or Terminator Support Missile Launcher, capable of firing devastating salvos of up to a dozen laser-guided super-crack missiles.

...

Developed from salvo-firing ship-to-ship short range killer missiles, the system would be equally at home mounted in the turret of an Imperial battle cruiser.
This applies to Terminator cyclone missile launchers. I doubt that this litearlyl means Terminators go around carrying missiles with the firepower of Imperial warships (We know torpedoes and missiles are going to be far larger than anything the Terminator carries), but it rather suggests a similarity in design and nature of such systems, in terms of how they operate, but with differeing capabilities/effects (naturally)

Note in particular the "laser guided" bit. It shoudl aslo be noted the aformentioned ferences to targeters also was used in reference to the Cyclone launcher, further reinforcing the sophstiicated targeting system (and implying capital ship missiles/torpedoes might employ similar.)

"Super-crack" warheads refer to "krak" warheads, but Super crack/kraks were heavier ones. This indicates that the missiles on the Cyclone (and probably capital ship weapons) are likweise focused/shaped charge weapons.

Page 10
The Thunder Hammer is built around a power generator rather like a power axe, sword, or glove. In this case the generator is triggered to energise only at the instnat of contact, thus enabling it to conserve energy while delivering a particularily powerful blow. As the hammer is brought down upon the target, a blue energy field explode with an almighty crack, knocking a smoking hole int he enemy while blue sparks crakcle and leap about the ruined armour.
..

The Thunder Hammer may be adjusted to release its entire power charge when it hits. This is a last ditch measure, as the resulting explosion is likely to destroy the wielder of the wepaon as well as the target.
The Thunder Hammer. The description has remained pretty consistent throughout the editions, so not much has to be said here. Note the adjustable power dial, although max power is a clearly "doomsday" setting.

Page 10
The storm Shield is a special power shield designed to be carried by Terminators. It is shaped like a cross and draws its energy from generators inside the Terminator's armoured suit. It flickers with a constant blue light which flashes and spits fluorestenct fire when the shield is struck. Because of the constant hum of the generators, crackle of electrical discharge, and the resulting smell of ozone, the shield was named the Storm Shield.
Storm shields, again not much has changed. If it draws power from inside the suit though one wonders why they could not just affix it to the suit.

Page 10
The weapon [lightning claws] consist of long slashing blades very much like the long claws of a primeval cat. However, like other power weapons, these claws are sheathed in a deadly energy. As the razor sharp knive edges are drawn across armour they hook into it and tear it away, exposing the soft flesh and inner workings to further asault.
Lightning claws.

Page 12
Indeed, they [Terminators] were originally fashioned for more arduous conflict, for battling the most dangerous of all imaginable foes: the creatures of deep space and daemonic creatures from the void of Chaos.
An indication of the magnitude of foes Terminators are expected to face.

PAge 13
They [Commissars] have the power of absolution in order to restore the morale of the troops at critical moments on the battlefield. Commissars are both feared and respected. THey do not often need to exrcise their powers because their presence among the troops is enough to instill devotion and confidence.

..

The Commissar must be seen as representative of the Emperor and thus a superior authority to any officer. Furthermore, a Commissar is required to deal with troops from many different tribal and racial origins, so cannot be associated with any particular group himself.
Fluff on Commissar training and duties, pre Grimdark when the emphasis was on shooting your own troops.

Page 14
...summed up the need for Cadet Commissars to live, fight and if necessary die alongside the troops they were supposed to inspire. For this reason, Cadet Commissars use the same standard weapon as Imperial guardsmen, the lasugn. This training forms the basis of much of the respect accorded to Commissars by Guardsmen, for they know that only those Cadets who have shown bravery and devotion in the face of enemy fire are selected.
Page 14
Qualified commissars are often attached to Abhuman units, Rough Rider units, Ogryn and aerial units. Those who have performed in an outstanding manner can be seconded to the SEcutor regiments of the Titan Orders.

Page 15 - intersting to note the CAdet equipment includes chainswords and conversion fields as well as a lasgun. One would assume in more modern times they might be carrying Hellguns and perhaps double as Commisariat troopers we see and hear of (like in the Ghosts novels)

Page 16
He [Russ] was one of the twenty bio-engineered superhumans wo would become the founding fathers, or Primarchs, of the original Space Marine Chapters. Tey were created by the Emperor to be stronger and tougher than any humansb efore or since. From tehir bio-engineered genes the Space Marines were cloned, yet even they were a pale reflection of their awesome progenitors, whose genetic material had to be dliuted a thousand times for a single Marine.
Primarchs are (roughly) 1000x better than a space Marine (1000x stronger, at least. I doubt it scales linearly for all aspects, like say. speed. I doubt a Titan can run at hypersonic speeds.)


Page 16
Great tales were told of his strength and courage: how he could pluck a tree from the ground and break it over his knee; how he culd stand against a hundred men in battle, and within mere minutes have thm begging for mercy;
Another (mythological admittedly) depiction of Russ's strength and combat abilities, pre Heresy.
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Re: 40K 1st/2nd edition misc analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

More of the RT Compiliation...The Marks of Space Marine armour!!!

Page 19
This first type of armour is now often referred to as 'Mark 1'. In fact this is the sort of armour worn by the techno- barbarian warriors that dominated the Earth. When the Emperor began his conquest of the planet his retinue was equipped and armed in the same way as the troops of other warlords. The first Space Marines formed part of that retinue and were equipped with the same sort of armour as other warriors of the time.
A bit of a description of "Mark 1" Space Marine armour from the pre-Imperium days when the Emperor was conquering earth. It is interesting to consider that it was considered "standard" technology at the time. One does wonder why the Imperium did away with it entirely, rather than relegating it to the use of second line/less important forces (considering that other "primitive" worlds like Caliban and such could maintain a limited sort of powered armor too.)


Page 20
This is not really a single enclosing suit and offers no atmospheric protection or life-support facilities - all of these being unnecessary while fighting was restricted to Earth. The helmet and the top plume are fairly typical, but these early suits were manufactured on an entirely local basis and their exact designs were often a matter of personal taste. The main part of the armour is the massive powered torso which encloses the chest and arms. Beneath the armoured chest plate coiled energy cables transmit power into the arms, effectively multiplying the wearer's fighting abilities three or four times over. During this period most fighting consisted of close combat, warriors preferring to grapple with each other rather than use long range weapons - the power of a warrior's chest and arms was therefore of paramount importance.
The warrior's legs are not power armoured at all but enclosed in tough padded breeches. In the example shown the warrior wears armoured greives and armoured boots. These were not standard by any means, but were worn by many of the better equipped warriors and were common amongst the early Space Marines. The warrior wears a backpack which provides his suit with power - most of its bulk is taken up by a cooling mechanism meant to prevent the power unit from overheating.
Warriors equipped in this way fought during all the Emperor's wars on Earth, and also on the Moon and Mars which have Earth-type atmospheres. Mark 1 armour is unlikely to be seen on the 41st millennium battlefield but ceremonial units are sometimes equipped in this way.
Details of the Mk1 powered armor. It would probably be more owrthwhile to note it is "Semi powered" since only the upper torso was, and it largely was meant to provide an enhancement to strength rather than allow a person to carry more weight (as later versions of power armor did.)

In this context we might look at it as simply a more exotic/elaborate carapace armour with built in power fists/augmetics, but one wonders why it wouldn't e used nowadays (save for ceremonial) purposes it doesnt seem that sophisitcated.

Note the 3-4x strength enhancement. This would be a lower limit on the boost SM armour cna provide.

Page 20
The new type of armour was the Crusade Suit, which became soon became known as Mark 2 armour while the old style became Mark 1 retrospectively. The armour is totally enclosed and life-sustaining, and so suitable for fighting on alien worlds as well as in deep space. It is arranged into articulated hoop-shaped plates for ease of movement and these now cover the legs as well as the chest. The additional energy cabling required to operate the leg armour can be seen in the example illustration while the chest coils are enclosed by armoured plates. The old armour had deliberately placed these coils on the outside to help keep the armour cool, but more efficient coolers in the Mark 2 did away with this necessity.
The first "proper" power armor as we get to know it. Exposed cabling was a ncessity it seems for cooling purposes, although why is worth noting (since its meant to be used in deep space, the means of carrying off waste heat would be more limited - such as radiation. Are the cables also designed to dispose of heat?) - it may hint at extensive efficiency.

Page 21
The back pack retains the old shape but is now much more efficient and contains all the extra equipment needed to maintain life-support, air recycling, fluid recovery, and the various automatical medical Functions which have remained common to Space Marine armour ever since.
The helmet is now fitted with automatic sensory devices developed in the Martian workshops. These consist of exterior sensors which gather visual and audio stimuli from the immediate environment - effectively functioning as eyes and ears. The information gathered in this way is processed by a computer brain and then transmitted directly into the wearer's mind by a neural connector. The practical result for the wearer is that he appears to see and hear quite normally, but he can also see infra-red and ultra-violet light, and hear a wider range of sound frequencies. The wearer is also able to selectively enhance a visual image or sound should he wish.
If exposed to blinding lights or deafening noises, the computer processor acts as a safety valve and dampens down the stimuli preventing damage to the Space Marine.
This sort of armour was used throughout the Great Crusade. Many maintain that it is the most efficient of all Space Marine armours, although its overlapping plates are notoriously difficult to repair. Actual examples of this armour, much repaired and carefully maintained, are still used in small numbers by many Space Marine Chapters.
This version (Mark 2 still) also describes many of the life support and sensory features typical of Space Marine armour and is basically self-explanatory.

Page 21
Mark 3 armour was never intended to replace Mark 2, but to Provide an optional heavy armour type suitable for fighting on board spacecraft and in tunnel complexes. High casualties suffered during early battles had shown the need for such armour. Mark 3 therefore placed considerable emphasis on frontal protection, while the rear armoured plates were lightened to compensate. This armour was reckoned ideal where cover was minimal and combat was a matter of frontal assault.
The suit itself is a highly modified Mark 2 with the addition of fixed armour plates to the body and limbs and a new heavy armoured helmet. The sloping plates of this helmet were intended to deflect shot to the left and right, and was to inspire the Mark 4 and 6 helmet designs. No Space Marine forces were ever equipped solely with this mark although many modern Chapters still use Mark 3 armour for boarding actions and tunnel fighting.
While a successful solution to a specific need, Mark 3 armour is too clumsy and uncomfortable for everyday use. As the most visually brutal of all Marine armour, it is sometimes used as a basic uniform for ceremonial guards. Mark 3 armour is sometimes called the Iron Suit or Armorum Ferrum in recognition of its great strength.
Mark 3 armor seems like a low-tech stand in for terminator armour - basically where you optimize protection forward at the expense of rear, making it ideal in close quarters type fights.

Page 22
The Great Crusade lasted for approximately 200 years at the end of which came a period of political consolidation. The Space Marines were now scattered far and wide throughout the galaxy, many serving as garrisons rather than as campaigning armies, and their size was scaled down to reflect this new role. Much of the equipment of the past was rapidly wearing out, including the old Mark 2 and 3 armour suits produced on Mars. While some Marine Chapters chose to continue local production and maintenance, the Martian factory hives of the Adeptus Mechanicus set about producing a new variant. This was to be the Mark 4 or Imperial Maximus Suit.
The main change was to abandon the separate abutting plates in favour of larger inflexible armour casings incorporating the flexible joints originally developed for the Mark 3. The result was only marginally less mobile than the earlier type and considerably easier to produce and maintain. Technical secrets uncovered on newly conquered worlds enabled the Martians to develop a more efficient armour, improving the quality of protection and reducing the weight of the suit at the same time. Improved armouring of the power cables enabled the main arm and chest supply to be safely relocated on the exterior of the armour, while use of new material also allowed the size and number of cables to be reduced.
The helmet is an entirely new type, the basic shape inspired by the sweeping front of the Mark 3. In earlier armour the helmet is fixed and the wearer's bead is free to move inside. In Mark 4 and later versions the helmet is not fixed but moves with the wearer's head. This facility reflects the constructors' increasing experience with neural connector gear and the use of new materials which flooded into the Martian workshops as the Great Crusade progressed. Mark 4 armour was designed to be the ultimate and final type of Space Marine armour, able to offer the best protection in a variety of conditions. The Martian factories were turned over to its production and many of the Space Marine armies were entirely or partially re-equipped.
Mark 4 armor - basically a re tooling of previous designs iwth an emphasis on a balance between protection/mobility and ease of fabrication (in design at least, but not mateirals.)

Also of note is the whole "Space Marines as a garrison force" and this necessitating a downscaling fo their forces, and that some Chapters utilized "local production and maintenance" rather than rel on the AdMech

Page 22-23
The general issue of Mark 4 armour was only half complete when the Horus Heresy broke out. This threw the entire program of supply into turmoil. In fact many of the most recently supplied Chapters were to turn against the Imperium while many loyal Chapters were forced to continue with older variants, and the confusion was considerable. The Space Marine armourers Techmarines and Artificers) had hardly got used to the new armour and many were as yet unable to maintain it properly let alone duplicate it as was originally intended.
With the Mark 4 newly in service the need for large numbers of spares had not been anticipated, so that suits quickly became unusable due to quite minor battle damage. It was soon found that the new and rather specialised materials used in the construction of the Mark 4 were unavailable locally and this increasingly became a problem as Chapters moved from battle-zone to battle- zone. The Imperial forces were soon forced into a fall- back position. Production of Mark 4 armoured ceased, and a new type of armour was designed almost literally over-night. This was the Mark 5 or Heresy Suit.
Flaws in the Mark 4 suits and the transition to the Mark V.

Page 22-23

The Mark 5 used as many pre-Mark 4 components as possible. Large stocks of these existed and the Marine Artificers were already familiar with their application. Once supplies of the new materials used in the Mark 4 armour dried up it became necessary to re-use older substances. In the illustration the lighter chest, arm and leg cabling of the Mark 4 has been replaced by older and heavier style cabling made from more readily available materials. However the cables are now exposed because they are too bulky to fit under the new style chest plate. This was to prove a consistent weak spot in the design leading to the fitment of all kinds of improvised chest armour.
A distinguishing feature of the Mark 5 armour were the heavily studded armour plates. This was an attempt to reinforce the Mark 4 pattern plates when inferior materials were used due to lack of the proper supplies. An extra skin plate was fitted around the armour using molecular bonding studs. The extra weight was considerable, especially if a further chest plate had been added, leading to increased pressure For energy from the power pack. As a result the wearer either had to turn up the power output and suffer intolerable heat build-up, or leave the power supply as it was and accept reduced power levels.
The helmet type illustrated is a spin-off from the Terminator development program, an early type of pre- production helmet, sharing the same type of auto-sense components as contemporary Terminator suits. Being something of an improvised stop-gap, it is common for Mark 5 suits to vary a great deal. Where Mark 4 helmets, armoured plates and cabling were available these were often used.
Despite its inauspicious origin the Mark 5 armour proved remarkably durable and equally importantly it was easy to produce and maintain. Huge quantities were shipped out to Space Marine Chapters during the Heresy, including to Chapters which subsequently went over to Horus. As Horus's own supply position became tenuous Mark 5 suits were scavenged from fallen enemies and used by his forces. After the Heresy most of the Mark 5 suits were broken up or dismantled to Provide spares. Few Chapters maintain examples of the design, preferring perhaps to forget the dark days of the Heresy. Renegade Space Marine Chapters may still be equipped with this armour.
The Mark V suit - basically a mishmash of all earlier suit components deisgned to be durable and easy to make and keep despite its flaws.

Of partiuclar note here are the "molecular bonding studs" which is meant ot be an in-universe explanation for the "studded" appearance of some earlier SM armour (the beaky type with the studded paudlrons.) It's interesting as it may suggest the Imperium discovered a new (read magical) kind of riveting which explains why so many Imperial vehicles (even capital ships) are sometimes described as riveted. Like I said, magic, but it works as far as retcons go.

Page 23-24
At the same time as production of Mark 4 armour ceased, work began on a long term development program to replace the Mark 4 with a more durable type. The Mark 5, or Corvus Suit, was only ever perceived as a stopgap design. The weapon development workshops on Mars began to experiment with a mixture of new and old technology, making the newer materials more durable where possible.
A notable feature of the resulting armour types (Marks 6 and 7) is the provision of dual technology circuits. These permit relatively rare or sophisticated functions to be temporarily replaced or repaired using common or very simple technology. Although development was incomplete the new armour was rushed into production while the forces of Horus advanced throughout the Terran solar system. Hastily equipped Space Marines wore the new style Mark 6 armour into battle while the development laboratories were disassembled and prepared for transfer to Earth. During the Martian campaign forces of Horus eventually overran the production facilities for Space Marine armour and soon began to manufacture new suits for their own use. Consignments were distributed to other forces elsewhere in the galaxy so that this new type of armour became quite widespread.

Distinguishing features of the Mark 6 armour are its relatively clean appearance due to rehousing the main power cables under the armour plates. The exterior chest and arm cables are duplicated under the chest plate and automatically isolated from the main system if damaged - thus providing a failsafe and overcoming the vulnerability of the Mark 5. The helmet is an improved version of the Mark 4 rather than a new type, although a new type was under development and was to be used on the Mark 7. The left shoulder armour retains the same construction method as the earlier Mark 5 and for the same reasons. Where supplies of material were short it is the right side of the warrior which needs to be better protected while he fires his weapon, thus the left side could be most easily replaced by slightly less effective plates. The need to economise in this way was very real at the time. Later the studded pad became associated with the Terran campaign and the final heroism of the Space Marines so that it became a traditional emblem of those days.
[/quote]

Page 24
While the final battle for Mars was underway the Imperium, realizing that the planet would eventually fall, set about duplicating the munition production lines back on Earth. The armour development teams from Mars were transferred wholesale to continue the development program and incorporate their latest work into a new armour type. As Horus's forces finally overcame the defenders of Mars new Mark 7 armoured suits started to reach the Space Marines on Earth and the Moon. Mark 7 represents the fulfillment of the new design program which was really only half complete in the Mark 6. In fact, so effective was the Mark 6 that both types continued in service thereafter and many Chapters chose to continue with their old armour rather than adopt Mark 7.
The main improvement is the newly designed chest plastron which covers the chest and arm cabling. This bears the eagle device and gives the armour its common name of Armorum Impetor or Eagle Armour. The other main difference is the abandonment of the studded right shoulder piece and the substitution of the new helmet for the old Mark 4 derived model. Improvements were made to the knee joint articulation, but this modification had already been incorporated into many of the later Mark 6 suits. On the whole it is Fair to say that Mark 7 represents the final development of Mark 6 and that the two sets of armour have a great deal in common. Parts from one are readily interchangeable with parts from another, so that a Mark 7 helmet will fit a Mark 6 suit and vice versa.
Mark 6 and 7 armour overlap a bit and perhaps is more representative of "modern" armor.

Page 25
The 7 basic marks of Space Marine armour were all developed up to and during the period of the Horus Heresy. During the production history of each mark various improvements were incorporated in the light of field experience. Thus there is a certain variation even within each mark although this is usually limited to the types of material used rather than to stylistic changes.
Following the end of the Heresy much in the Imperium changed, including the organization and number of the Space Marine Chapters. Whereas up until this time there had only been twenty Chapters, henceforth the huge pre- Heresy forces were to be broken up into many smaller Chapters. The new Chapters that were founded were equipped with whatever suitable armour and weaponry was available. For the most part the armour used was either Mark 6 or 7, but with a fair sprinkling of older types.
Since that time each Chapter has largely taken over the production of its own equipment. That is not to say that every Chapter produces every single item of hardware that it uses. Some Chapters trade items with other Space Marine Chapters, or they commission work from local fabricators. This latter option is especially common where Chapters hold the governorship of the world they live on - in which case the planet is effectively owned by the Chapter and its resources can be organized by the Space Marines as they wish. In other Space Marine Chapters supplies are purchased through the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Post-Heresy logistics and equipment changes in the Space Marines, likely an explanation about variation in equipment or armour types we sometimes see in the stories and such. Some Astartes have to buy their gear direct from the AdMech, although by and large its eems most Chapters are mostly self sufficient.


Page 25
Within each Chapter Space Marine armour is maintained by skilled Marine Artificers, These are not Space Marines, but highly trained and dedicated servants who spend their entire lives working for the Chapter, Artificers are just one of the many types of 'civilian' servants who work for their Space Marine Masters. In some Chapters these Artificers traditionally work together in a single huge workshop and their products are distributed amongst the Space Marine Chapter as a whole. In other Chapters individual Artificers are the personal servants of either a Squad of 10 Marines or an individual officer. These Artificers are very proud of their Space Marine masters, considering the status and reputation of their unit or officer to be of the utmost importance. In their turn the Space Marines are equally proud of the Artificers whose fine workmanship adorns their armour and weapons. Over the history of a Chapter especially talented Artificers become famous and justly celebrated, and examples of their work are much sought after.
In many Chapters it is traditional for Artificers to come from special families, and for fathers to pass on their skills and position to their sons. In other Chapters the position is open to all, but involves a long period of apprenticeship to an older Artificer.
The Artificer's job is to decorate and maintain the Chapter's armour and weapons. In fact, the Chapter also has Engineers and Techmarines whose role is to manufacture much of the equipment, so the Artificers are involved more with decoration, engraving, customizing and modifying the basic equipment. For example, when a Space Marine earns a combat honour it is the Artificers who make the honour badges and fasten them on to the Marine's armour. Similarly, the Artificers make rank badges, long service badges and other marks of distinction that are used by their Chapter.
Older types of armour are associated with the past history of many Chapters and often with the deeds of heroic individuals. Artificers will carefully hunt down examples of ancient armour-to use as the raw material on which they can engrave honour marks or purely decorative features. Such pieces will be lovingly restored, often plated with silver or gold, and then painstakingly engraved with naturalistic scenes, abstract designs or Chapter badges. A piece of armour that can be shown to have belonged to an old Chapter hero is valued above all others. As successful Space Marine Officers are often presented with ancient pieces of armour, a single armoured plate or helmet might have a long and famous history and could have belonged to a whole succession of Space Marine heroes and been worked on by many famous Artificers.
Artificers - which I take to mean Techmarines, although they may actually be non-servitor subordinates of TechMarines.


Page 27
Marine Power armour is fitted with an automatic weight-compensator which off-sets heavy weights by selectively boosting power ot the arms as required.
Strength seems to be variable and automatically adjusts according to demands, although the extent of this capability isn't clarified here.
Post Reply