Home circumcision of 4-year-old ends in conviction Module body
Fri Oct 16, 12:35 PM
SASKATCHEWAN (CBC) - A Vancouver-area father has been found guilty of negligence causing bodily harm after botching a home-circumcision attempt on his four-year-old son as part of a spiritual quest to make things right with God.
The bizarre case centred on a battle over the religious freedoms of the former Jehovah's Witness, who was trying to follow a literal interpretation of the Bible after a series of misfortunes hit his family.
During the trial, the B.C. Supreme Court heard that after a bad motorcycle accident in 2002 left both the man and his wife with brain injuries, he began the religious quest that eventually led him to believe that both he and son needed to be circumcised to celebrate Passover.
The man, identified only as D.J.W. to protect the identity of his son, began researching home circumcision on the internet and in the Bible, and by listening to a radio show.
His first attempt to circumcise himself ended up with his foreskin turning black and only part of it cut off. When he couldn't stop the bleeding, he called an ambulance, and a doctor in a hospital emergency room ended up stitching up the bleeding wound.
The man later returned to he internet for more research and met some other religious fundamentalists, who were also dog breeders. They advised him they used a veterinary powder call Blood Stop to halt any bleeding when they circumcised their 13-year-old son.
At $30 a bottle, Blood Stop was too expensive for the man. But during a trip to Washington state to celebrate Passover with a friend, the man found another more affordable product, called Wonder Dust, meant for horses.
The man also contacted several doctors and rabbis, all of whom refused to do the operation either because the boy was too young for a general anesthetic or because the family was not Jewish.
So after a trip to London Drugs to buy razor blades in January 2006, he asked his son if he could cut off his foreskin, so he could be just like dad.
The man testified in court that, after the boy consented to the circumcision, he fed him some mead a biblical beverage made from honey lay him on the kitchen floor, stretched his penis across a cutting board and cut off part of the foreskin.
When asked in court whether the man used ice to ease the boy's pain, he replied, "Where would the Israelites have found ice?"
He then applied the Wonder Dust, gave the boy some ice cream and told him he could watch whatever movies he wanted that week, before heading off to church, leaving the boy in the care of his mother, who could not stand the sight of blood.
The boy spent the next few days walking with his legs wide apart, until a social worker, who caught wind of the operation, brought two police officers to the house to take the boy into protective custody for a medical examination.
After the medical staff found the boy's penis coated in a thick cap of black tarry substance from the Wonder Dust, they decided to remove the rest of the family's children from the home.
Meanwhile, a surgeon removed "a beehive coating" from the boy's penis before properly circumcising him, saying later in court that the boy would likely have ended up with a disfigured penis had the operation not been completed.
In court, the man's lawyer, Douglas Christie, argued the man's desire to fulfil his religious duty negated any criminal intent.
And in her ruling issued on Wednesday, Judge Marion Allan found the man not guilty on charges of aggravated assault and assault with a weapon, saying the man did not seriously harm the boy and the razor blade was not used as a weapon.
But the judge also ruled the child could not have consented to the operation and the father should have known he needed a trained professional to perform it especially given his own first-hand experience and found him guilty of negligence causing bodily harm.
"Indeed his motivations could be characterized as selfish or even deluded insofar as he believed that he was unable to live in his home at Passover with any uncircumcised male, including his four-year-old son," wrote the judge in her ruling.
The man's lawyer is reportedly considering an appeal on constitutional grounds, and a sentence has yet to be handed down.
You have to realize that most Christian "moral values" behaviour is not really about "protecting" anyone; it's about their desire to send a continual stream of messages of condemnation towards people whose existence offends them. - Darth Wong alias Mike Wong
"There is nothing wrong with being ignorant. However, there is something very wrong with not choosing to exchange ignorance for knowledge when the opportunity presents itself."
In court, the man's lawyer, Douglas Christie, argued the man's desire to fulfil his religious duty negated any criminal intent.
What a bunch of selective horseshit. I'm kind of shocked to see something like this be successfully argued in Canada. I'd expect it from Texas or some other southern shithole, but Canada?
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
The sheer attemp of a circumsision on his own should get him into jail. Seriously, that could have gone horribly wrong.
He willfully inflicted serious injury on his own son - jail him.
And this
In court, the man's lawyer, Douglas Christie, argued the man's desire to fulfil his religious duty negated any criminal intent.
is just outrageous. If he had argued that his brain injury limited his responsiblitiy or something like that, i could understand it - but this is just stupid.
SoS:NBAGALE Force "Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
In court, the man's lawyer, Douglas Christie, argued the man's desire to fulfil his religious duty negated any criminal intent.
What a bunch of selective horseshit. I'm kind of shocked to see something like this be successfully argued in Canada. I'd expect it from Texas or some other southern shithole, but Canada?
I wouldn't say that it was a successful argument. The judge basically stated that the guy was delusional, and that the reason for finding him not guilty of assault with a weapon was that he didn't use the razor as a weapon, and didn't "seriously harm" the kid. While I would take issue with some of this assessment, it doesn't appear as though the judge gave him a pass for being a religious nut.
73% of all statistics are made up, including this one.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
You have to realize that most Christian "moral values" behaviour is not really about "protecting" anyone; it's about their desire to send a continual stream of messages of condemnation towards people whose existence offends them. - Darth Wong alias Mike Wong
"There is nothing wrong with being ignorant. However, there is something very wrong with not choosing to exchange ignorance for knowledge when the opportunity presents itself."
In court, the man's lawyer, Douglas Christie, argued the man's desire to fulfil his religious duty negated any criminal intent.
What a bunch of selective horseshit. I'm kind of shocked to see something like this be successfully argued in Canada. I'd expect it from Texas or some other southern shithole, but Canada?
Wait, this was in Canada?
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. This shit isn't supposed to happen here...
General Zod wrote:
What a bunch of selective horseshit. I'm kind of shocked to see something like this be successfully argued in Canada. I'd expect it from Texas or some other southern shithole, but Canada?
What the hell else is is he going to use as a defence? The defence counsellors duty is to defend his client with what he feels is the course most likely to get him off, or follow the instructions given to him by his client. His client was a brain damaged religious man, guess what he'll want to use in his defence?
That said, the guy hasn't been sentenced yet.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
General Zod wrote:
What a bunch of selective horseshit. I'm kind of shocked to see something like this be successfully argued in Canada. I'd expect it from Texas or some other southern shithole, but Canada?
What the hell else is is he going to use as a defence? The defence counsellors duty is to defend his client with what he feels is the course most likely to get him off, or follow the instructions given to him by his client. His client was a brain damaged religious man, guess what he'll want to use in his defence?
That said, the guy hasn't been sentenced yet.
It's not the fact it was used as a defense. It's the fact that the judge seemed to at least partly agree with it.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
General Zod wrote:
It's not the fact it was used as a defense. It's the fact that the judge seemed to at least partly agree with it.
Really? Because this:
And in her ruling issued on Wednesday, Judge Marion Allan found the man not guilty on charges of aggravated assault and assault with a weapon, saying the man did not seriously harm the boy and the razor blade was not used as a weapon.
"Indeed his motivations could be characterized as selfish or even deluded insofar as he believed that he was unable to live in his home at Passover with any uncircumcised male, including his four-year-old son," wrote the judge in her ruling.
Looks like "it doesn't fit the letter of the law" and that she may be trying to cut the guy a break. Now I'm all for taking this guys kid away and putting him in a home where the Mom and Dad aren't delusional, which I suspect is going to happen after all this is done.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Stark wrote:Y'know, I can think of a few other guys who would love this 'religious duty negates crimal intent' bullshit.
So who's worse - a lazy parent with a 400lb kid, or this guy?
So can i...
Oh, and this guy is worse.
The mother with the fat kid may be (criminally) neglicient and totally unfit to be a parent - but at least she did not actively, directly harm her kid like that.
SoS:NBAGALE Force "Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
Serafina wrote:Oh, and this guy is worse.
The mother with the fat kid may be (criminally) neglicient and totally unfit to be a parent - but at least she did not actively, directly harm her kid like that.
She's setting him up for a lifetime of health problems. It's a different thing than picking up a knife and performing unnecessary surgery, granted, but certainly no better than this brainless twit. Both are quite contemptible.
Please, World, can't we start to ban this barbaric practice already? Enough. Most of Western Society seems to (rightly) condemn female "circumcision" so let's stamp this nonsense out as it pertains to males.
FSTargetDrone wrote:
She's setting him up for a lifetime of health problems. It's a different thing than picking up a knife and performing unnecessary surgery, granted, but certainly no better than this brainless twit. Both are quite contemptible.
The damage done is worse, i agree.
However, the motivations were arguably worse in the case of this guy - the mother was neglicient (and unfit to be a mother) while this guy actively harmed his child.
But thats just my oppionion - i do not think these cases are directly comparable anyway.
Quote fixed
Last edited by Serafina on 2009-10-16 06:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
SoS:NBAGALE Force "Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
Serafina wrote:Oh, and this guy is worse.
The mother with the fat kid may be (criminally) neglicient and totally unfit to be a parent - but at least she did not actively, directly harm her kid like that.
She's setting him up for a lifetime of health problems. It's a different thing than picking up a knife and performing unnecessary surgery, granted, but certainly no better than this brainless twit. Both are quite contemptible.
Please, World, can't we start to ban this barbaric practice already? Enough. Most of Western Society seems to (rightly) condemn female "circumcision" so let's stamp this nonsense out as it pertains to males.
It has largely disappeared in Canada, which is why the doctors wouldn't do it; you have to pay here if it's for anything but medical reasons. And apparently he couldn't afford it, I'm not sure what they charge (it's 150ish for a newborn in the hospital) but it leads me to something odd about all this:
The guy doesn't have the cash for a clotting powder, to pay for a circumcision but he's got the money for a lawyer willing to take the case to the Supreme Court?
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Wasn't he charged with a crime and defended himself? Doen't the goverment has to give you a lawyer in that case, no matter how far you want to go?
That's how it works in Germany - i think. Correct me if i am wrong.
SoS:NBAGALE Force "Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
Serafina wrote:Wasn't he charged with a crime and defended himself? Doen't the goverment has to give you a lawyer in that case, no matter how far you want to go?
That's how it works in Germany - i think. Correct me if i am wrong.
The public defender (or whatever we call them, I can't recall) is free, yes. It depends on his financial status (and you have to be pretty fucking poor to qualify), I'm not sure if that extends to taking things up to the Supreme Court or not.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
.....When asked in court whether the man used ice to ease the boy's pain, he replied, "Where would the Israelites have found ice?"
He then applied the Wonder Dust, gave the boy some ice cream and told him he could watch whatever movies he wanted that week .....
So apparently he believes the Israelites had invented ice cream, electricity, TV, and movies . . . but not ice. Either that, or he has a double standard. I just found the quote absolutely hillarious since they juxtapose the two lines EXACTLY like that in the article.
There is no surer aphrodisiac to a man than a woman who is interested in him.
Couldn't he have just asked a hospital to perform the operation? You know, like the ultiamtely DID only this time the child wouldn't have black tarry shit on his wang and a "beehive" coating?
"Since when is "the west" a nation?"-Styphon "ACORN= Cobra obviously." AMT
This topic is... oh Village Idiot. Carry on then.--Havok
Prosecutors alleged that between 2005 and 2006, Marlowe used box cutters to circumcise two of his sons, causing severe pain and in one case 11 hours of bleeding.
Marlowe admitted to circumcising the two infants in Caldwell County, and a third son in Mecklenburg County, without using anesthesia for any of the boys.
He contends he didn't put them through any more pain than a medical doctor would have.
Say NO to circumcisionIT'S A BOY! This is a great link to show expecting parents.
