SGU 104: Darkness (Spoilers)

[Darwin]

I wouldn't say their caution was indicative of their appraisal of the ninth chevron's worth, more likely they were finally learning from their mistakes. Stranding two teams in other galaxies wouldn't really look good when the whole thing goes public. (assuming it ever does )

You still plan for worst case which there is no indication that they did.

That they named the project 'Icarus' is pretty much the definition of not planning for worst case.

[JME2]

hat they named the project 'Icarus' is pretty much the definition of not planning for worst case.

As was noted in the premiere talk back, these are the same guys who named their fleet of ships after one of the pantheons Earth was fighting during the Tau'ri-Goa'uld War...

On a side note, I just had an interesting thought about Rush. The character's involvement with the SGC dates back at least 2 years -- that would put his joining within the time-frame of The Ark of Truth. Now, one of the dangling threads from the film is the identity of Marrick's IOA contact, the one who provided him with the modified Asgard data crystal. Whoever re-programmed the data crystal was familiar with Asgard tech and Replicator programming. Obviously, it wasn't Sam. Rodney would probably never agree to it; same with Dr. Lee. Anyone think Rush might have had a part in that little debacle?

[Bilbo]

hat they named the project 'Icarus' is pretty much the definition of not planning for worst case.

As was noted in the premiere talk back, these are the same guys who named their fleet of ships after one of the pantheons Earth was fighting during the Tau'ri-Goa'uld War...

On a side note, I just had an interesting thought about Rush. The character's involvement with the SGC dates back at least 2 years -- that would put his joining within the time-frame of The Ark of Truth. Now, one of the dangling threads from the film is the identity of Marrick's IOA contact, the one who provided him with the modified Asgard data crystal. Whoever re-programmed the data crystal was familiar with Asgard tech and Replicator programming. Obviously, it wasn't Sam. Rodney would probably never agree to it; same with Dr. Lee. Anyone think Rush might have had a part in that little debacle?

That would be an interesting twist.

Personally I think Rush's main bit will be that his wife died and he has nothing in his life but his work.

[Darwin]

That would be an interesting twist.

Personally I think Rush's main bit will be that his wife died and he has nothing in his life but his work.

I'd like it better if Rush was motivated by feeling responsible for the whole mess (cause he totally is) and trying to fix it all himself.

[NecronLord]

As was noted in the premiere talk back, these are the same guys who named their fleet of ships after one of the pantheons Earth was fighting during the Tau'ri-Goa'uld War...

Incidentally, I recently learned that there was a real USS Egeria in WW2. See!

On a side note, I just had an interesting thought about Rush. The character's involvement with the SGC dates back at least 2 years -- that would put his joining within the time-frame of The Ark of Truth. Now, one of the dangling threads from the film is the identity of Marrick's IOA contact, the one who provided him with the modified Asgard data crystal. Whoever re-programmed the data crystal was familiar with Asgard tech and Replicator programming. Obviously, it wasn't Sam. Rodney would probably never agree to it; same with Dr. Lee. Anyone think Rush might have had a part in that little debacle?

You know, for all it fucked them up, Merrick's idea wasn't that bad in itself. It didn't rely on crazy deus-ex-machina. It should simply have been part of the mission briefing from the get-go "if we can't find the Ark." The chief risk would be the Priors reprogramming the replicators somehow.

[Bilbo]

As was noted in the premiere talk back, these are the same guys who named their fleet of ships after one of the pantheons Earth was fighting during the Tau'ri-Goa'uld War...

Incidentally, I recently learned that there was a real USS Egeria in WW2. See!

On a side note, I just had an interesting thought about Rush. The character's involvement with the SGC dates back at least 2 years -- that would put his joining within the time-frame of The Ark of Truth. Now, one of the dangling threads from the film is the identity of Marrick's IOA contact, the one who provided him with the modified Asgard data crystal. Whoever re-programmed the data crystal was familiar with Asgard tech and Replicator programming. Obviously, it wasn't Sam. Rodney would probably never agree to it; same with Dr. Lee. Anyone think Rush might have had a part in that little debacle?

You know, for all it fucked them up, Merrick's idea wasn't that bad in itself. It didn't rely on crazy deus-ex-machina. It should simply have been part of the mission briefing from the get-go "if we can't find the Ark." The chief risk would be the Priors reprogramming the replicators somehow.

I would expect that the Replicator attempt would have failed quickly. Adria as the super ascended being still existed. Since she has no problem interfering with lowers it wouldnt have taken much effort from her to pass knowledge down to the Doci and Priors on how to reprogram or destroy the replicators.

[PREDATOR490]

Gave it a 3.

This series is fairly bland but it is at least consistent in performance. The special effects are pretty good and some of the character interactions are somewhat entertaining.

The situation with this ship starts to wear thin due to the 'ship does whatever we want' situation. Watching the idioicy of the crew is even less appealing when these guys are supposed to be 'ELITE' personnel from Earth chosen to be part of the 'TOP SECRET' Stargate programme. Although, if they keep up with the side trips for each character on Earth I fail to see how the Stargate programme is going to remain secret for long.

Incidentally, why the fuck couldnt they get someone like Daniel on call to do some Ancient translation of the systems rather than rely entirely on an erratic lunatic like Rush ?
Instead they decide to bring in military dudes to just stand around and bark orders on a ship they have no idea how to operate.

One major issue I saw in this episode:
They said they have the senators body yet that body was trapped inside that shuttle. Noone can get to it without dying so whatever broke off during last episode could not have been that shuttle.

So I suspect that object was either an alien vessel or Destiny is falling apart.

I think it is highly obvious the Destiny is heading to the sun to recharge itself. It is beyond stupid that a ship like this dosent have the capability to recharge in its ongoing mission and clearly the ship's automatic systems are intentionally driving them to whatever it needs. So unless Destiny just decided to commit suicide - cant really blame it if it did, then its going to recharge and we might just get to see this thing running at power.
Cue next crisis: Most likely being that Telford guy going rogue or a search for water

[Manus Celer Dei]

It was already obvious that whatever it was falling off the Destiny last episode wasn't the shuttle; it didn't look remotely similar. I doubt it was just a random piece of wreckage dropping off as it seemed to have an exhaust plume of some sort.

[CaptJodan]

Finally got to see it.

Still enjoying the overall atmosphere of the show. The show itself moves at a much slower pace than other Stargate shows, and I feel even slower than BSG did. While this should annoy me, there's a lot there that compensates for it. For one, I was tired of the big bad alien menace threads that have been consistent throughout the series. Man vs. Alien has been done in this show, and I'm confident that it will be done again. But right now we're being treated to Man vs. Machine, Man vs. Space, and a little Man vs. Man. The solutions to some of these problems are simple, easy to understand from a viewer standpoint, and doesn't rely on technobabble handwavium.

While Eli reminds me of a cross between Wesley (without any SUPER genius traits yet) and McKay, I am still enjoying his reaction to all that's going around him. His comments about others being so jaded about all he is experiencing really mirrors my own feelings. Putting some of the wonder back into Stargate is something I felt was desperately needed, and I think Eli is doing a big service to remind the viewer that "hey, flying through a gas giant SHOULD BE something amazing in its own right". The show, in my view, has gone a long way to bringing some of that wonder of exploring both space and other worlds via the stargate or a ship back into a show that desperately needed it (Whereas in Atlantis, they searched other worlds for the "Hunt for the ZPM", with almost every world consisting of dull humans in mostly primitive societies).

Having said that, the episode gets a lot of it's points for atmosphere, but very little for getting things done. Having every character go back to have some version of a sob story with whatever family they have could get old, and as if we didn't have enough strained SOD with the lack of public knowledge of the Stargate, now they are rolling the dice with allowing other family members of these people to know what's going on. The Senator's wife should have at least made them think about their choice to give these people access to classified information. I realize these moments are in there for character development rather than to "get something done", but this one wasn't that compelling.

Seems like we might be stuck with Father Scott.

[NecronLord]

I would expect that the Replicator attempt would have failed quickly. Adria as the super ascended being still existed. Since she has no problem interfering with lowers it wouldnt have taken much effort from her to pass knowledge down to the Doci and Priors on how to reprogram or destroy the replicators.

The Ancients enforce their rules upon the Ori, and her. Note that the Ori couldn't just smite all unbelievers in their galaxy. We don't know where the Priors get their knowledge, but as their powers are unaffected by the death of their gods, there's no reason to assume much of it comes directly from the ascended beings; more likely, their records before they ascended.

[Ragnarok]

I would expect that the Replicator attempt would have failed quickly. Adria as the super ascended being still existed. Since she has no problem interfering with lowers it wouldnt have taken much effort from her to pass knowledge down to the Doci and Priors on how to reprogram or destroy the replicators.

The Ancients enforce their rules upon the Ori, and her. Note that the Ori couldn't just smite all unbelievers in their galaxy. We don't know where the Priors get their knowledge, but as their powers are unaffected by the death of their gods, there's no reason to assume much of it comes directly from the ascended beings; more likely, their records before they ascended.

As well, Priors are just basically super advanced humans that are engineered with Ori technology (similar to the Ancient gene resequencer that created that super advanced human) to give them abilities over most everything else. If you look at the technology that the Priors come with, most of it is very similar to what the Ancients came up with as well. They have their staff, which is controlled by thought and is capable of enhancing pre-existing abilities in the Prior, probably is the projector for their shield generators for protection, enhances their telekinetic abilities, ect. That's why the SGC was able to come up with the anti-Prior weapon to disrupt the frequency on which Priors operate to access those abilities, and bring them down more in line with baseline humans so they can actually be fought.

[JME2]

As was noted in the premiere talk back, these are the same guys who named their fleet of ships after one of the pantheons Earth was fighting during the Tau'ri-Goa'uld War...

Incidentally, I recently learned that there was a real USS Egeria in WW2. See!

On a side note, I just had an interesting thought about Rush. The character's involvement with the SGC dates back at least 2 years -- that would put his joining within the time-frame of The Ark of Truth. Now, one of the dangling threads from the film is the identity of Marrick's IOA contact, the one who provided him with the modified Asgard data crystal. Whoever re-programmed the data crystal was familiar with Asgard tech and Replicator programming. Obviously, it wasn't Sam. Rodney would probably never agree to it; same with Dr. Lee. Anyone think Rush might have had a part in that little debacle?

You know, for all it fucked them up, Merrick's idea wasn't that bad in itself. It didn't rely on crazy deus-ex-machina. It should simply have been part of the mission briefing from the get-go "if we can't find the Ark." The chief risk would be the Priors reprogramming the replicators somehow.

I would expect that the Replicator attempt would have failed quickly. Adria as the super ascended being still existed. Since she has no problem interfering with lowers it wouldnt have taken much effort from her to pass knowledge down to the Doci and Priors on how to reprogram or destroy the replicators.

Yeah. The Ori probably either learned of the Replicators' rampage after contact was established with the Milky Way or the Priors gained the information during their year of initial recon (Given his presence on Dakara in "The Fourth Horseman", the Ver Isca Prior could easily have gleaned information on the Battle of Dakara from Gerak). The Priors could probably have dealt with them. Also, Marrick and the IOA's plan didn't take into account either the ascended Adria or the rest of the Ori (since they didn't learn whether the Sangraal worked until the DTV). Regardless, it was a foolish, insane risk and it's another reason why I still think the SGC and their allies should have pressured the IOA into disbanding or divesting itself of its control of the Stargate Program. They've pulled some stupid stunts on both SG-1 and SGA, but the Odyssey debacle takes the cake.

[NecronLord]

Yeah. The Ori probably either learned of the Replicators' rampage after contact was established with the Milky Way or the Priors gained the information during their year of initial recon (Given his presence on Dakara in "The Fourth Horseman", the Ver Isca Prior could easily have gleaned information on the Battle of Dakara from Gerak). The Priors could probably have dealt with them.

Care to propose a mechanism?

Also, Marrick and the IOA's plan didn't take into account either the ascended Adria or the rest of the Ori (since they didn't learn whether the Sangraal worked until the DTV).

Care to propose a mechanism they could use without the Ancients slapping their wrists? They couldn't even smite some guys hiding in taverns. Why could they smite the replicators?

Regardless, it was a foolish, insane risk

Compared to 'get conquered?' The Ark plan required actual divine intervention by the Ancients to work, Merrick's didn't.

[JME2]

1. Prior Ex Machina; the writers would have probably pulled a new Prior trick out of their hats. I'm just speculating there.

2. Valid point about "Crusade"; I withdraw my argument there.

3. I understand why the IOA took a desperate measure, but the fact they strung the SGC along doesn't help their case. Moreover, the big problem with the IOA's plan was that underestimated the Legos from Hell. They didn't anticipate that the bugs would go after Marrick and try to assimilate his knowledge of the self destruct code so as to neutralize it. Their control of the bugs this time was an illusion and one that could have backfired even worse than it did. As it is, the Asgard were probably rolling in their graves.

Now, should SG-1 have just destroyed the Supergate on the Alteran end? They could have. But even if they had, it would have:

a.) Left the Odyssey stranded behind enemy lines and about a year from the Milky Way with hyperdrive.

b.) The Priors would simply have assembled a new Supergate on their side. Granted, it would have bought Earth breathing room to install the Asgard upgrades on Daedalus and Apollo and recall them from Pegasus. But even with their General's [Adria] ascension and their disorganization, the Priors and the Ori army would just keep coming; they were fervent in their goal of converting the Milky Way to Origin. It's just like how even if Daedalus had managed to stop the second Wraith fleet in "The Siege -- Part 3", the Wraith would have just kept sending more ships like they did during the Lantean-Wraith War. Now if the Replicators had managed to occupy the Priors for a while, same result -- or yet another galaxy overrun by the bugs.

It's ultimately kind a strategic no-win's scenario; lucky for SG-1 they found another Ancient Ex Machina.

[Slacker]

Is it me or was there something following the Destiny in the last cut-away at the end of the episode?

[ZGundam]

Is it me or was there something following the Destiny in the last cut-away at the end of the episode?

I also noticed something left the Destiny at the end of the episode. I had no idea what it was and maybe we will find out later.

[TheLostVikings]

Is it me or was there something following the Destiny in the last cut-away at the end of the episode?

I also noticed something left the Destiny at the end of the episode. I had no idea what it was and maybe we will find out later.

Are you guys talking about This? That was last episode, the only thing following the Destiny this episode was a lens flare.

[JME2]

Is it me or was there something following the Destiny in the last cut-away at the end of the episode?

I also noticed something left the Destiny at the end of the episode. I had no idea what it was and maybe we will find out later.

Are you guys talking about This? That was last episode, the only thing following the Destiny this episode was a lens flare.

Then it's the evil lens flare of doom...

[Bilbo]

I would expect that the Replicator attempt would have failed quickly. Adria as the super ascended being still existed. Since she has no problem interfering with lowers it wouldnt have taken much effort from her to pass knowledge down to the Doci and Priors on how to reprogram or destroy the replicators.

The Ancients enforce their rules upon the Ori, and her. Note that the Ori couldn't just smite all unbelievers in their galaxy. We don't know where the Priors get their knowledge, but as their powers are unaffected by the death of their gods, there's no reason to assume much of it comes directly from the ascended beings; more likely, their records before they ascended.

It would not surprise me if the Ori leave dissent in their galaxy to create extra ferver from their worshippers. Leave the fear of internal dissent to keep everyone on their toes even if the actual danger is miniscule. So the resistence existing doesnt mean the Ori couldnt squash them if they wanted.

Assuming the Ori cannot or will not just smite the Replicators would mean it would come down to knowledge. This would get into unknown areas. Was the Ancient enhanced O'Neil able to create an anti-replicator gun because the Ancients were just that smart or because the Ancients had experimented with Replicators and thus had some knowledge of the situation. If it is the latter then the Ori, even ascended, may not know enough about the Replicators to pass knowledge down to their worshippers.

[NecronLord]

3. I understand why the IOA took a desperate measure, but the fact they strung the SGC along doesn't help their case. Moreover, the big problem with the IOA's plan was that underestimated the Legos from Hell. They didn't anticipate that the bugs would go after Marrick and try to assimilate his knowledge of the self destruct code so as to neutralize it. Their control of the bugs this time was an illusion and one that could have backfired even worse than it did. As it is, the Asgard were probably rolling in their graves.

This would have been irrelevant in the original plan, which was to beam it over to the Ori ships. If anything, the ability to assimilate Priors would be a great advantage. Of course, the moronic thing was getting Merrick to do it on his own. Just get President Hayes, or General Hammond, or whoever, to brief the crew in person "Here's what you're going to do." Hey presto the SGC people cooperate and the bugs are swarming in Ori ships. Similarly, they should have had a whole platoon with shotguns standing by to get the thing when they created it.

The IOA were morons in the way they did it. The idea of using replicators wasn't moronic in itself.

It's ultimately kind a strategic no-win's scenario; lucky for SG-1 they found another Ancient Ex Machina.

There's no evidence bug replicators could change their directives (Replicate and defend yourselves my cute little toys). If their directive had simply been 'destroy the ships of Origin and the Priors' it would have been a perfectly sensible plan.

[NecronLord]

It would not surprise me if the Ori leave dissent in their galaxy to create extra ferver from their worshippers.

Am I going to have to cut you with Occam's Razor?

They couldn't purge unbelievers, they couldn't just kill the Ancients, they couldn't detect the Apollo until Merrick turned the core on. They couldn't just purge the Ark of Truth and every other Ancient relic immediately when they ascended (implying the Ancients got there first, as does the continued existance of Ancients) and most damningly of all, Adria didn't just smite the Apollo when it entered orbit - a single ascended Ancient was able to annihilate an entire 'terrible fleet' of Wraith ships with a single thought, but had to endure punishment. Given Adria's temperment, the only thing stopping her doing so the moment Vala beamed down would be fear of the consequences.

Make no mistake, for the universe to make any sense, the Ancients must enforce their rules on the Ori. The Ori are left scrabbling with loopholes, like impregnating a former goa'uld host.

No wonder the Ancients thought that Moros was being foolish by making a weapon to destroy them.

[JME2]

This would have been irrelevant in the original plan, which was to beam it over to the Ori ships. If anything, the ability to assimilate Priors would be a great advantage. Of course, the moronic thing was getting Merrick to do it on his own. Just get President Hayes, or General Hammond, or whoever, to brief the crew in person "Here's what you're going to do." Hey presto the SGC people cooperate and the bugs are swarming in Ori ships. Similarly, they should have had a whole platoon with shotguns standing by to get the thing when they created it.

The IOA were morons in the way they did it. The idea of using replicators wasn't moronic in itself.

I don't deny it would have been grimly satisfying to see the evangelical Ori forces having to contend with the Legos from Hell. The IOA proceeded the way they did because the SGC would never agree with the plan. And after having to fight the bugs for five years -- especially as they almost blew up the SGC during the final incursion in "Reckoning" -- I wouldn't blame them. Their last 'control' over the bugs was brief and due to the unique circumstances Daniel was in during "Recknoning".

It's ultimately kind a strategic no-win's scenario; lucky for SG-1 they found another Ancient Ex Machina.

There's no evidence bug replicators could change their directives (Replicate and defend yourselves my cute little toys). If their directive had simply been 'destroy the ships of Origin and the Priors' it would have been a perfectly sensible plan.[/quote]

Which makes you wonder why the IOA programmer didn't try to do that, especially as he was able to program a self destruct command and ARG weakness. Either the base code was too complex to reprogram (ala the Asurans in Season 4) or they didn't have enough time and hoped for the best with what he or she had.

[Alyeska]

FYI, its Odyssey, not Apollo.

[Bilbo]

It would not surprise me if the Ori leave dissent in their galaxy to create extra ferver from their worshippers.

Am I going to have to cut you with Occam's Razor?

They couldn't purge unbelievers, they couldn't just kill the Ancients, they couldn't detect the Apollo until Merrick turned the core on. They couldn't just purge the Ark of Truth and every other Ancient relic immediately when they ascended (implying the Ancients got there first, as does the continued existance of Ancients) and most damningly of all, Adria didn't just smite the Apollo when it entered orbit - a single ascended Ancient was able to annihilate an entire 'terrible fleet' of Wraith ships with a single thought, but had to endure punishment. Given Adria's temperment, the only thing stopping her doing so the moment Vala beamed down would be fear of the consequences.

Make no mistake, for the universe to make any sense, the Ancients must enforce their rules on the Ori. The Ori are left scrabbling with loopholes, like impregnating a former goa'uld host.

No wonder the Ancients thought that Moros was being foolish by making a weapon to destroy them.

I figured that the Ancients spent their time keeping the Ori from knowing about the Milky Way galaxy and from directly interfering with events in the milky Way. In their own galaxy you see no such limitation. You see Adria appearing at will, you see the Ori creating the Priors (at least that was what I got from it, that they were created by the Ori directly), they even possess the body of the Doci for entertainment purposes.

Then you have the failed attempt to damage the Ori ships by the resistance. Did the Ori stop the attempt? A Prior showed up immediatly back at the bar, suggesting they knew the resistance was there all along and were amused by their useless efforts.

Adria as I understood it was a loophole to bring in as advanced a person as possible into the Milky Way. The Ori could not impregnate someone in the Milky Way, so they did it to someone in their own galaxy then sent her to our galaxy.

Though I admit your theory is just as likely as mine.

[Slacker]

Are you guys talking about This? That was last episode, the only thing following the Destiny this episode was a lens flare.

yeah, it could've just been a lens flare. *shrug*