SDN World 3 Country Claiming

[Siege]

Six pages of alt-history and I'm only up to 1589. I feel like PeZook...

[Setzer]

Well, it's better then half assing things.

[Raj Ahten]

I've been thinking about things and I'm not really liking my idea of having a nation in West Africa after all and I'm going to go with a Chile/Argentina hybrid nation instead. It just works better for what I want to do and would involve a lot less alt history. It also helps I nkow a bit more about South America than I do west africa.

My only concern is would Rogue Ice have been good with America helping out independence movements in South America in the 1800's when Spain was busy with Napoleon and so forth? Then we could continue to have a special relationship. I know that some Americans were pretty keen to help the Latin American independence movements historically while many others were not.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Preliminary points distribution for the Southeast Asian Union (an equally preliminary name):

Population: 3
The vast majority of the Union's inhabitants are concentrated in the Philippines, Vietnam, and Guangxi.

Home territory: 2
The Philippines is actually a very small place, all things considered. Vietnam is a relatively thin strip of land, while Sabah, Sarawak, and Brunei occupy only a fraction of Borneo's total area.

Colonial territory: 1
Guangxi and Hainan are also relatively small places. Hong Kong and Macau are specks on the map, as are the Carolines and the Marianas.

Industry: 4
The SAU has managed to assemble a relatively impressive industrial complex, considering its size and location.

Economy: 3
While not particularly wealthy, SAU banks are among the most stable in the region and are adequate enough for most purposes.

Infrastructure: 2
It's tough work establishing adequate infrastructure in jungles. Railroads are king for getting people and cargo from point A to point B; actual paved roads are only found in the cities themselves for the most part.

Standing military: 4
The SAU maintains a large military for its size.

Naval focus: 4
The Union Navy is sufficiently powerful enough to make the South China Sea its own personal domain and can project power almost anywhere in the Pacific.

Army focus: 3
The Union Army is of decent quality overall.

Air focus: 3
The SAU's leadership has been keen to note the potential of aircraft and has been working very hard to build up a competitive air force.

The preliminary (and admittedly rather half-baked) history:
Spoiler

1638: After the failure of the Shimabara Rebellion, a large but indeterminate (estimated to be around 30,000) number of Japanese Catholics are gradually deported to the Philippines.
1810: After receiving word of the Mexican War of Independence, the Philippines revolts as well, causing Spain to fight a counter-insurgency on two fronts.
1821: The Philippines wins its independence around the same time as Mexico does and inherits Spain's other possessions in the western Pacific. Later that year, the Sultan of Sulu officially cedes control over his territories to the new Philippine government, thus adding the province of Sabah to the Philippines.
1839: Prior to the outbreak of the First Opium War, the Philippines seizes Hong Kong from China; during the war, the British use it as a staging point for their forces with Philippine consent.
1843: The Philippines exploits a conflict between the Kingdom of Sarawak and the Sultanate of Brunei, thus starting the Borneo Campaign.
1846: The Borneo Campaign ends with both Brunei and Sarawak successfully absorbed into the Philippines; sporadic resistance against the Philippine regime continues for many years afterwards, however.
1849: The Philippines forcefully acquires Macau from Portugal, taking advantage of the chaos surrounding Portugal's declaration of Macau's "independence" from China.
1850: The Philippines launches the Indochina Campaign against Vietnam.
1863: Cambodia, fearful of Philippine aggression, agrees to become a French protectorate. The Philippines enters a non-aggression pact with Siam and France later that year.
1864: The Indochina Campaign ends with Vietnam successfully absorbed into the Philippines.
1865: The Philippines is officially reorganized into the Southeast Asian Union in order to reflect its conquests.
1911: The SAU participates in the Xinhai Revolution on the side of the Tongmenghui, sending arms, military advisers, and supplies to the revolutionaries via Hong Kong and Macau; SAU soldiers also see action against Imperial forces in southern China, successfully managing to seize Guangxi and Hainan provinces in the process.

[Steve]

Langley, that history needs shifting to accommodate Bluewolf's stable China.

Karmic, the Congo and Gabon is the home territory for Setzer's country. You may have to sort out Tunisia with Baerne and East Africa with Bean.

[Setzer]

I'm RPing as a former colony of Karmic Knight's, so there's nothing wrong with him having once had control.

[Karmic Knight]

Karmic, the Congo and Gabon is the home territory for Setzer's country. You may have to sort out Tunisia with Baerne and East Africa with Bean.

Yes, the Congo is Setzer's, I didn't mean to make that claim, I used a facsimile of the colour Setzer used in his map, I had originally used Setzer's map when I made my additions, but I found a larger map and added mine and Setzer's claims to it.

As for Tunisia, if Baerne would like to claim Tunisia along with his other claims, I'm sure we can work something out.

The same goes to Bean for East Africa.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Langley, that history needs shifting to accommodate Bluewolf's stable China.

While I can do away with anything mentioning warlords, without knowing the exact details of his backstory, I don't know what else to change.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Eastern Australia, Papua, and New Zealand are quite open, as I won't be participating after all. Sorry about that.

[Steve]

Say, does anyone have figures for historical sizes of fleets and standing, non-mobilized armies in the interwar period and 1913 or so? Also Air Forces if possible. I need them to determine how big one's forces can be by one's investment in the focus scores.

[TimothyC]

Here is my territory:

[Setzer]

I can see border disputes if I move south and you move north.

[K. A. Pital]

Say, does anyone have figures for historical sizes of fleets and standing, non-mobilized armies in the interwar period and 1913 or so? Also Air Forces if possible. I need them to determine how big one's forces can be by one's investment in the focus scores.

I'll try to compose a table if I have time.

Also, let it be known that the Transcaucasian as part of the USSR is claimed, since the map has not shown it.
The post-Empire Soviet Union

[TimothyC]

I intent to also take southern "Northern Rhodesia" (aka Zambia) as a territory, so yeah, I can see some conflict developing .

[Ma Deuce]

I've begun fleshing out my quasi-realistic history intended to make Madagascar into a major industrial power. For obvious reasons, I don't think it's necessary for me to outline on the map the areas I intend to claim.

As historically, Madagascar maintains it's independence throughout much of the 19th century by playing the French and British against each other, both of whom vied to control the island. Historically, this arrangement fell apart in the decades following the completion of the Suez canal, which reduced the strategic importance of the island for the British who lost interest and thus allowed the French to colonize it around the end of the 19th century.

A very brief rundown where my Madagascar will diverge from historical:
-Earlier discovery and more aggressive exploitation of the island's mineral wealth, allowing earlier industrialization and the establishment of modern institutions.
-Preventing or truncating the the psychotic, xenophobic reign of queen Ranavalona I (reigned 1828-1861), allowing foreign trade and progressive reform to continue.
-Importing oodles of cheap labour from mainland Africa to work in the mines and nascent industries; these African immigrant workers eventually grow to outnumber the wealthier Malagasy natives. While this allows me the population base needed for a major power, the social problems resulting from this downtrodden underclass will play heavily into the backstory, eventually resulting in an attempted Communist revolution a few years before the start date of the game.
-Given Madagascar is now much stronger than OTL it succeeds in repulsing the French invasions in the 1880s and 1890s, the second attempt being so costly France abandons it's ambitions in Madagascar, focusing instead on expanding it's West African colonies.
-After repelling the French, Madagascar decides it needs a modern navy to counter any future invasion, immediately buys a few obsolete decommissioned ships from other navies, before purchasing it's first new seagoing warships from British yards before the turn of the century. Enormous expenditures are devoted to acquiring a fleet of modern warships, with Madagascar gradually gaining the ability to build and design it's own ships by the start of the game.

Something more detailed will follow when it comes time for me to actually assign points for my country.

[K. A. Pital]

I'm currently looking at the state of Russian Navy without the Civil War trying to figure out the total surface and submarine combatant tonnage. All RIN ships lost prior to 1915 remain lost (and many of them by alt-history fiat are given to Beowulf as Russo-Korean War Trophies), all ships lost post 1915 till 1925 (including loss due to Civil War, loss due to German, French, British action, etc.) are still active. And it's a damn good Navy, not that monstrous but still damn good if you ask me, so I won't spare points to have it, and I'd even risk inducing adverse events on my nation (the "mild" civil unrest version and corresponding GDP decline) to keep the ships, service and maintain them and have them seaworthy in the year 1925.

Russian "airforce" on the other hand... is craptacular to the extreme. *slaps head* Army equipment also leaves much to be desired, despite the mob capacity.

I'll probably post a rough description of the state of industry, et cetera of the alt-Russian state. On one hand, there's no scuh Civil War ravage, on the other the hypermobilization by Nicholas was more ill-fated than in reality, and due to the large war with Germany fizzling out it basically collapses upon itself, leading to large abandonment of industrial construction initiated in the 1913-1915 mobilization and 1914-1915 war.

[Zor]

A quick rundown of my Japanese Empire.

Population-3, The Empire’s population stands at approximately 75 million people.

Home Territory-2-The Japanese Home islands have are comparatively small chain of defensible islands, Japan is a highly urbanized nation.

Colonial Territory-1, So far the colonial ambitions of the Japanese Empire have been limited to claiming Southern Sakhalin.

Industry-5-The Empire of the Rising Sun remains the Industrial powerhouse of the Eastern World. Imperial industrial goods are considered the best across Asia and the Empire’s industry gives it an edge over many of it's surrounding rivals.

Economy-3, The Banking system of the Empire, if nothing outstanding is never the less capable of serving its role. The Yen is better respected than several other Asian currencies and the trade balances

Infastructure-3, The rail networks cross the home islands of Japan are well established and paved roads have been established across the more developed sections of the home islands, linking the major cities of the Empire together. Automobile transportation is somewhat reliable and the car has become a common sight in the Empire’s cities but there are still a few rural areas that are behind the times. The Empire has a respectable merchant fleet.

Army Size-3, The Empire has amassed a respectable military to protect its interests. It has several long term plans and suspicions and concerns about a couple of the nations which surround it. Never the less, the Empire has kept it’s aggression against these nations to a minimum.

Navy Focus-5, The Imperial Japanese Navy is the senior most branches of the Emperor’s Military with the responsibility of keeping safe the island based homeland from assault. The Imperial Navy has a powerful line of battle in its battleships, submarines, light assets and a carrier converted out of an older cruiser. The men of the IJN are well trained and are considered among the best sailors on earth.

Army Focus-2, The Imperial Japanese Army has been somewhat neglected over the past decade as the Empire is an island state. IJA soldiers and their commanding officers are in general competent and loyal; although their equipment has not been significantly upgraded since the Great War, with the only major advance has been the adoption of a sub machine gun based off the MP18. The IJA has a few dozen second hand tanks, but research into such Machinery has been limited.

Air Focus-3, despite naval prioritization, the Empire has seen much use in the application of air power. Both the Navy and the Army operate various aircraft (the army’s air fleet being limited to a handful of recon plains), although in 1923 over various protests from army officials was created the Imperial Japanese Air Force (IJAF). Future projects involving military airships and airplanes to fill various rolls.

Zor

[K. A. Pital]

Industry - 5? Really? How is that even possible? Japan started industrializing and without the US and British holding such sway it's results would've been far worse than IRL. Japan was less industrialized than Russia in the 1900s, and frankly if we're going to just pull stuff out of our ass, that'd make no sense. Japanese population is also a little larger than reality.

[Zor]

Industry - 5? Really? How is that even possible? Japan started industrializing and without the US and British holding such sway it's results would've been far worse than IRL. Japan was less industrialized than Russia in the 1900s, and frankly if we're going to just pull stuff out of our ass, that'd make no sense. Japanese population is also a little larger than reality.

And Sub Saharan African nations with level 5 Industry is all hunky doory with you?

Zor

[K. A. Pital]

And which are those? If those are equivalents of South Africa, then - yeah. If those are Central Africa, then - no. And I presume neither would that be hunky with the mods.

[Thanas]

Well, Setzer's congo has an industry of five. Don't ask me how that is justifiable either. Player's fiat, I guess.

[Norseman]

Alright guys I wanna play, so here are my options:

1. Cuba (Peoples Republic of) If that particular piece of real-estate hasn't been claimed yet. I don't see any colours on it.
2. Greater Tibet (AKA The Blasted Plateu of Leng!) If the player of China is willing to drop that piece of land.

If not.. I suppose I could take that free area in the Caucasus or Greater Romania.

Anyway where is the latest map? I've been shown maps that has a lot more stuff coloured in than what we see on this current one.

[Thanas]

^I am currently considering the border with Shady (Balkan area).

[K. A. Pital]

I think our mod council should consider that natural factors should be taken into account. MaDeuce's Madagascar makes sense both from a geographic (natural resource) and historical POV. Setzer's Congo makes little sense if any, unless of course there is some solid backhistory he can make to handwave away the extremely bad natural and climatic conditions of Congo...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

There is also another matter. I would expect also that a strong industry is backed by solid infrastructure. I mean, you have to have solid infrastructure to transport goods around and so forth. A good solid infrastructure promotes trade and thus provides opportunities for banking and so forth. There's a lot of ties between the various parts of the economy, and it is thus hard to just cut them up piece meal.