Well, I had a bad experience today. (Warning Gruesome)

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-02-11 10:59pm

weemadando wrote: Thats an Opossum. Aussie possums, goddamn... I've seen those things shrug off a headshot from a 30-06 and just keep on going about their business.

Isn't it true that you can run the little suckers over with a truck and they still keep going?

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-02-11 11:28pm

Seggybop wrote:No, he shouldn't stab it in the first place. He had already captured it. Like shooting captured POWs or something. They can't hurt you anymore but you kill them anyway. Not that the possum is the same as a human, but it's the same idea that there's no reason to hurt it after it's no longer able to attack.

What the fuck was he going to do? Let the fucker go? So it can come back and continue it's killing spree? Would it have come back to it's original hiding spot? Fuck that possum. The only reason I wouldn't have let it keep suffering, is so I don't forget the bastard and it starts stinking, and rotting, and bringing in disease and filfth.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-12 12:23am

Vertigo1 wrote:
weemadando wrote: Thats an Opossum. Aussie possums, goddamn... I've seen those things shrug off a headshot from a 30-06 and just keep on going about their business.
Isn't it true that you can run the little suckers over with a truck and they still keep going?

Thats wombats. Though most Aussie wildlife can take one fucker of a beating before going down.

Where do you think they got the concept for Stitch from? Drop Bears. Nasty fucking things.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 12:48am

First, this PETA thing you keep accusing me of being associated I barely know of its existence, I assume it's some animal rights group. I don't care about animal rights or whatever, I only dislike the idea of making anything dead, however mean and nasty it may be.

What should you do with it instead of killing it? Dump it into some kind of sack it can't escape from, then call animal control... it was said that would result in the thing's destruction in the end anyway by someone, but not with the animal control department where I live. If you call them they'll capture the animal unless there's no way at all to capture it, then deport it to about fifty miles away. I guess where you live they kill everything, there's nothing better you can do. But if there's any option, immediately trying to kill it is no good.

And the point that farmers kill stuff all the time? Ok. Killkillkill, go ahead. Kill some more cows so that I can have some steak, steak is good. Not like the cow is good for anything else. Killing things because you have nothing better to do with them is different from that.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-12 12:59am

Seggybop wrote:First, this PETA thing you keep accusing me of being associated I barely know of its existence, I assume it's some animal rights group. I don't care about animal rights or whatever, I only dislike the idea of making anything dead, however mean and nasty it may be.

Good. Stop eating.

You do realize that every kind of food you consume is a form of life, don't you? And that even vegetables are not only life, but were grown on a farm which was cleared out of a forest, thus destroying habitat for animals? Where do you think that stuff in the grocery store comes from?

What should you do with it instead of killing it? Dump it into some kind of sack it can't escape from, then call animal control... it was said that would result in the thing's destruction in the end anyway by someone, but not with the animal control department where I live. If you call them they'll capture the animal unless there's no way at all to capture it, then deport it to about fifty miles away. I guess where you live they kill everything, there's nothing better you can do. But if there's any option, immediately trying to kill it is no good.

There is no reason to risk injury trying to carefully capture something like that, nor is there any reason to risk that it might get away while you're pussy-footing around.

And the point that farmers kill stuff all the time? Ok. Killkillkill, go ahead. Kill some more cows so that I can have some steak, steak is good. Not like the cow is good for anything else. Killing things because you have nothing better to do with them is different from that.

So it's OK to kill the cow for meat, but it's not OK to kill a wild animal that's destroying your livestock? What the fuck are you talking about? And how do you justify your asinine comment that you would punch AB's mother in the mouth for telling him to kill a fucking rodent?

The reason people accuse you of being a PETA member is that only PETA members are so militantly stupid about this subject.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 01:29am

It's ok to kill the cow and eat it but not the vicious wild animal because killing it is the entire reason the cow is there, but the dirty animal was defeated and it didn't really have to be killed.

I don't like anarchistbunny's mother because she said to kill the animal, but then after he began doing so she apparently cracked up. If you say that you want something to die but then can't handle it actually being done, then you're messed up. That's what I meant to say mainly in my original post but I have been sidetracked into defending things that I am perfectly aware make no sense and am arguing for no purpose other than to fight everything anyone says to me.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-12 01:33am

Que...okay

It's okay to kill the cow...but not the opossum?

How, so what if they captured it, the thing is either somehow detained to be killed or it's killed on the spot.

It's not going to have a different ending for the rodent, and honestly it was killing their livestock, they were protecting their property from an attacker who wasn't going to be shooed off, unless lethal force was applied.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 01:36am

Dump the animal in some kind of sack, and call animal control... like I said before, if it was the local animal control for my area, they'd take the animal and remove it to an unpopulated area, alive. I guess they don't do that where he lives.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-02-12 01:38am

Seggybop wrote:It's ok to kill the cow and eat it but not the vicious wild animal because killing it is the entire reason the cow is there, but the dirty animal was defeated and it didn't really have to be killed.

I don't like anarchistbunny's mother because she said to kill the animal, but then after he began doing so she apparently cracked up. If you say that you want something to die but then can't handle it actually being done, then you're messed up. That's what I meant to say mainly in my original post but I have been sidetracked into defending things that I am perfectly aware make no sense and am arguing for no purpose other than to fight everything anyone says to me.

I'm not even gonna attempt to answer this.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 01:38am

Killing the cow is ok because that's why the cow is there, you got the cow so that eventually you could kill it and eat it. This other thing might be chicken serial killer but killing it after you prevent it from killing any more and you have no real use for its deadness lacks purpose.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2003-02-12 08:37am

Seggybop wrote:Killing the cow is ok because that's why the cow is there, you got the cow so that eventually you could kill it and eat it. This other thing might be chicken serial killer but killing it after you prevent it from killing any more and you have no real use for its deadness lacks purpose.

Trapping and relocating that possum as you suggest is the same as catching a serial ax-killer in New York and then setting him free in California. Either way you still have a serial killer on the loose, and the serial killer may just make his way back to where you removed him from. In both cases you're going to have more dead bodies popping up. By refusing to incarcerate or kill the serial killer and letting him/it have free reign, you are contributing to yet more killings.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-02-12 08:59am

A little perspective:

Normal opossum. Awww. Cute.

EVIL OPOSSUM OF DEATH:

Ahem:

The only animals I've ever killed are insects (cockroaches for example) and a few rodents (mice and one big rat once). I never felt pity- they're pests. Talking about animal cruelty really just starts you down the road to why do you eat anything, especially meat?

What was done in this thread was gruesome/ necessary. Would've been better if that knife had been sharp .... quicker and less painful.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-02-12 09:42am

aerius wrote:
Seggybop wrote:Killing the cow is ok because that's why the cow is there, you got the cow so that eventually you could kill it and eat it. This other thing might be chicken serial killer but killing it after you prevent it from killing any more and you have no real use for its deadness lacks purpose.
Trapping and relocating that possum as you suggest is the same as catching a serial ax-killer in New York and then setting him free in California. Either way you still have a serial killer on the loose, and the serial killer may just make his way back to where you removed him from. In both cases you're going to have more dead bodies popping up. By refusing to incarcerate or kill the serial killer and letting him/it have free reign, you are contributing to yet more killings.

Perfect analogy! My view is that if something (whether it has for legs and teeth; no legs and venom; or two legs, the knowledge of what's right and wrong, and a gun) attacks you, you have the right to defend yourself with all force necessary up to and including deadly force.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-12 10:39am

Seggybop wrote:Killing the cow is ok because that's why the cow is there, you got the cow so that eventually you could kill it and eat it. This other thing might be chicken serial killer but killing it after you prevent it from killing any more and you have no real use for its deadness lacks purpose.

Explain why "purpose" has any effect on the pain felt by the dying animal.

You can't, can you? This "purpose" bullshit is a red herring. It has nothing whatsoever to do with animal cruelty; you eat animal meat and you rationalize it to yourself with this ridiculous "purpose" nonsense, then you turn around and condemn others for killing animals because their "purpose" is not identical to yours.

We kill animals so that we may live and eat. DEAL WITH IT. It is part of the great circle of life. We try to minimize their suffering, but that's all we can do. AB's mom told him to kill the rodent, and became distraught at the amount of gore and suffering involved because it did not go as smoothly as hoped. Your self-righteous bullshit is unbelievable.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 11:39am

Darth Wong wrote:
Seggybop wrote:Killing the cow is ok because that's why the cow is there, you got the cow so that eventually you could kill it and eat it. This other thing might be chicken serial killer but killing it after you prevent it from killing any more and you have no real use for its deadness lacks purpose.
Explain why "purpose" has any effect on the pain felt by the dying animal.

I never said it did. I said death, not pain.

You can't, can you? This "purpose" bullshit is a red herring. It has nothing whatsoever to do with animal cruelty; you eat animal meat and you rationalize it to yourself with this ridiculous "purpose" nonsense, then you turn around and condemn others for killing animals because their "purpose" is not identical to yours.

I never said anything about animal cruelty. I said that I don't like it when you make stuff dead.

We kill animals so that we may live and eat. DEAL WITH IT. It is part of the great circle of life. We try to minimize their suffering, but that's all we can do.

I never stated any problem with suffering. You assume was my problem, but it was only with the deadness.

AB's mom told him to kill the rodent, and became distraught at the amount of gore and suffering involved because it did not go as smoothly as hoped.

She should have considered what happens when you try to kill stuff first.

Your self-righteous bullshit is unbelievable.

Good that you think that, since I don't believe it either.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-12 12:31pm

Right, the view point from an animal loving vegetarian...

What exactly are you on, Seggybop? It's OK to breed impossibly fat and unhealthy cows, keep them in appalling conditions throughout their life and vicously slaughter them on a mass production line, but it's somehow wron to kill an animal that's lived a natural life but posed a threat to someone's livelihood - and family, as Bunny views his pets, because the cow has a PURPOSE?

I never said it did. I said death, not pain ... I never said anything about animal cruelty. I said that I don't like it when you make stuff dead ...
I never stated any problem with suffering. You assume was my problem, but it was only with the deadness.

WTF is this about? You'd rather torture something than kill it?

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 12:40pm

only pointing out that I never made the claims, but it was assumed that was my position.

I said not to kill stuff.
I also said steak is good.

Kill cow to eat steak. Kill vicious chickenslayer for... what?
Killing the chickenslayer will not help you! Get rid of it and let it meet its own end, whatever that may be.

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet (even though I said it multiple times) I don't actually belive what I'm saying, I am arguing for the sake of arguing, using the stance of Vash the Stampede from Trigun. Because I thought it would be interesting to compare those concepts to the reality.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-02-12 01:25pm

Your position is completely illogical. Deal with it.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 01:33pm

Deal with it? I never had any problem with it. An experiment testing nonsensical anime morality against reality, which was successful.[/list]

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 01:35pm

And I have no idea why that says list, either.
blame yashushiro nightow or whoever made up trigun for this argument.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-02-12 01:37pm

Seggybop wrote:I understand the position of everyone. What I don't get is that after you capture the animal and it's no longer able to cause you damage you need to kill it. It seems sort of gratuitious.

Maybe you ought to try living on a ranch or a farm sometime before you say ANYTHING at ALL abt what farmers and ranchers do. Dick.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-12 01:41pm

Seggybop wrote:only pointing out that I never made the claims, but it was assumed that was my position.

I said not to kill stuff.
I also said steak is good.

Ah yes, but how do you get steak without killing stuff?

"Kill cow to eat steak. Kill vicious chickenslayer for... what?" to save chicken.

"Killing the chickenslayer will not help you!"

Funny, it sure helped the chickens.

"Get rid of it and let it meet its own end, whatever that may be."

It did meet it's own end. You go up against something larger than you, you get creamed. Law of the jungle and all that.

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet (even though I said it multiple times) I don't actually belive what I'm saying, I am arguing for the sake of arguing, using the stance of Vash the Stampede from Trigun. Because I thought it would be interesting to compare those concepts to the reality.

I don't think that Vash's ideology was to not kill anything, but still expect food to magically appear without killing. Do you think donuts just magically come into being without any loss of life?

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-02-12 01:53pm

Watch episode 17.
He sees a spider is going to eat a butterfly and wants to save it without killing either.
Knives kills it.
Vash gets super PO'ed.
Knives says if you save the butterfly, the spider starves.
Vash doesn't care and keeps ranting how he wanted to save them both.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-12 01:59pm

Seggybop wrote:Watch episode 17.
He sees a spider is going to eat a butterfly and wants to save it without killing either.
Knives kills it.
Vash gets super PO'ed.
Knives says if you save the butterfly, the spider starves.
Vash doesn't care and keeps ranting how he wanted to save them both.

Yes, something about in saving the butterfly, you become the spider. It's stupid. It ignores the fact the food doesn't magically appear. Even if he wants to do that, he is complacent in the fact that death occurs. After all, he does eat.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-02-12 02:11pm

Seggybop wrote:only pointing out that I never made the claims, but it was assumed that was my position.

I said not to kill stuff.
I also said steak is good.

Kill cow to eat steak. Kill vicious chickenslayer for... what?
Killing the chickenslayer will not help you! Get rid of it and let it meet its own end, whatever that may be.

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet (even though I said it multiple times) I don't actually belive what I'm saying, I am arguing for the sake of arguing, using the stance of Vash the Stampede from Trigun. Because I thought it would be interesting to compare those concepts to the reality.

That's even stupider than if you actually believed it