SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread

Norade · Post by **Norade** » 2009-10-23 12:05pm

Seeing as a lot of people have been trading designs in the other topics I thought it was high time for a thread.

I'll start off with a design that I'm hoping is at least passable, or maybe even good with a few tweaks.

PSS Bandit, Portugal Battleship laid down 1923 (Engine 1924)

Displacement:
42,736 t light; 45,352 t standard; 47,157 t normal; 48,601 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
802.75 ft / 771.00 ft x 98.43 ft (Bulges 104.99 ft) x 36.09 ft (normal load)
244.68 m / 235.00 m x 30.00 m (Bulges 32.00 m) x 11.00 m

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (3x3 guns), 2,048.00lbs / 928.96kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1925 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (6x4 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1923 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 19,800 lbs / 8,981 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
2 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes, 4 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 462.60 ft / 141.00 m 11.91 ft / 3.63 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 308.38 ft / 93.99 m 11.91 ft / 3.63 m
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 462.60 ft / 141.00 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
6.00" / 152 mm 462.60 ft / 141.00 m 33.13 ft / 10.10 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 6.00" / 152 mm, Conning tower: 15.00" / 381 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 101,571 shp / 75,772 Kw = 27.50 kts
Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,249 tons (75% coal)

Complement:
1,599 - 2,080

Cost:
£11.862 million / $47.446 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,475 tons, 5.2 %
Armour: 18,293 tons, 38.8 %
- Belts: 5,365 tons, 11.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,402 tons, 7.2 %
- Armament: 2,895 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 6,209 tons, 13.2 %
- Conning Tower: 422 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 3,590 tons, 7.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,298 tons, 38.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,421 tons, 9.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 0.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
60,988 lbs / 27,664 Kg = 29.8 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 11.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 20.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.565
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.34 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 32.81 ft / 10.00 m (22.97 ft / 7.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Stern: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.93 ft / 7.60 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.2 %
Waterplane Area: 55,936 Square feet or 5,197 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1,068 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Norseman · Post by **Norseman** » 2009-10-23 12:21pm

I figured I'd show you lot one of my designs, basically I see this as the white elephant of my navy, a ship that doesn't really fit into the doctrine but was built anyway. In my opinion every navy needs at least one giant boondoggle, like Jackie Fisher's Large Light Cruisers. So here you are, it's kind of low on firepower and armour (and sanity) but it's the victory of the All or Nothing armoured concept combined with the Speed *is* Armour ideas of Battlecruiser enthusiasts.

Working Class Hero, FSR of Brazil Battlecruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
30,703 t light; 31,905 t standard; 34,118 t normal; 35,888 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
823.52 ft / 808.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
251.01 m / 246.28 m x 28.04 m x 9.75 m

Armament:
9 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8 mounts), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
24 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 9,120 lbs / 4,137 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 470.00 ft / 143.26 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.75" / 95 mm 808.00 ft / 246.28 m 25.00 ft / 7.62 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: - - 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 126,292 shp / 94,214 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 7,200nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,983 tons

Complement:
1,254 - 1,631

Cost:
£6.265 million / $25.059 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,140 tons, 3.3 %
Armour: 13,257 tons, 38.9 %
- Belts: 3,875 tons, 11.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,803 tons, 8.2 %
- Armament: 1,672 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 4,590 tons, 13.5 %
- Conning Tower: 317 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 4,416 tons, 12.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,590 tons, 34.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,415 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
46,955 lbs / 21,299 Kg = 54.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 8.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.502
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.78 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.89 ft / 8.81 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Stern: 18.39 ft / 5.61 m
- Average freeboard: 19.77 ft / 6.02 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.6 %
Waterplane Area: 49,619 Square feet or 4,610 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 778 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.03
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

EDIT: Note this isn't really meant as an entirely viable design for a class, it's a one off, I'm thinking of having it converted to a carrier but... well

It's gloriously whacky.

Bluewolf · Post by **Bluewolf** » 2009-10-23 12:28pm

Well I made this idea with my first try. It may be a bit off but I would like to know what people think of it:
Spoiler

What do you guys think of it? Thanas has suggested a far better design but I like to know how to improve this one and learn more about ships so I can make designs myself. This was my first ship.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2009-10-23 12:31pm

I'll maybe post a few of my designs as well in here.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2009-10-23 02:02pm

Since we now have a separate thread for this, I'll start by reposting a link to my only design, which will probably be used assuming we stick to limiting designs of players by tonnage:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=426

Bluewolf wrote:Well I made this idea with my first try. It may be a bit off but I would like to know what people think of it:

The number and type of guns plus speed would in theory make for a decent WWI-era battlecruiser on that tonnage; hullform looks good as well, but you have a few major changes make. One, a 30 inch thick main belt is extraordinarily excessive, even for a battleship, and it's not going to do you much good in this era, given your thin deck as plunging fire comes more into play (even the first battlecruisers had around 2.5 inches of deck armor). Second, you need to change the mounts for your heavier guns. Simple deck mounts would require the ammunition to be carried manually from the magazine, or a large supply of ready ammo be kept within reach of the gun; obviously that's not going to work very well for a gun that fires 864 lb shells.

The main guns would be in turret-and-barbette mounts for almost any dreadnought-era design; the ammo and charges for such large guns must be stored in the ship's bowels under the armored deck for protection, so must be hoisted up to them; the hoists would need protection as well. The 6-inch secondaries would likely be either in casemates or deck-and-hoist type mounts, and would have much less armor than the main guns. Rest of the guns can stay as they are.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2009-10-23 02:40pm

I originally based this on the QE battleships. Comments appreciated. I'm not too familiar with the proper AA armament though I followed the US 5"/38 guns.

Justinian, Royal Navy Battleship laid down 1912 (Engine 1934)

Displacement:
33,641 t light; 35,963 t standard; 39,952 t normal; 43,143 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(731.98 ft / 721.78 ft) x 108.27 ft x (29.53 / 31.47 ft)
(223.11 m / 220.00 m) x 33.00 m x (9.00 / 9.59 m)

Armament:
8 - 16.00" / 406 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2,065.46lbs / 936.88kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1912 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides amidships
8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 55.18lbs / 25.03kg shells, 200 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1934 Model
4 x Twin mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.17lbs / 1.44kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1912 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
Weight of broadside 18,063 lbs / 8,193 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 235.00 ft / 71.63 m 11.50 ft / 3.51 m
66.78 ft / 20.36 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 410.00 ft / 124.97 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
6.00" / 152 mm 410.00 ft / 124.97 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 3.00" / 76 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 89,396 shp / 66,689 Kw = 26.00 kts
Range 12,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,180 tons

Complement:
1,412 - 1,836

Cost:
£3.218 million / $12.872 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,631 tons, 9.1 %
Armour: 13,062 tons, 32.7 %
- Belts: 4,489 tons, 11.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,458 tons, 6.2 %
- Armament: 2,624 tons, 6.6 %
- Armour Deck: 3,215 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 277 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,572 tons, 6.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,376 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,311 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
67,702 lbs / 30,709 Kg = 33.1 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 13.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 84 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.606 / 0.614
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.67 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.80 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forward deck: 45.90 %, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Aft deck: 17.60 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.70 %, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m, 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 23.09 ft / 7.04 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.1 %
Waterplane Area: 57,476 Square feet or 5,340 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,004 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.41
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Ryan Thunder · Post by **Ryan Thunder** » 2009-10-23 03:03pm

Code: Select all

CSS Vindicator, Columbian Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
	40 481 t light; 44 034 t standard; 45 000 t normal; 45 773 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(838.39 ft / 820.21 ft) x 114.83 ft x (32.81 / 33.22 ft)
	(255.54 m / 250.00 m) x 35.00 m  x (10.00 / 10.13 m)

Armament:
      12 - 15.75" / 400 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1 969.41lbs / 893.31kg shells, 200 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
	  3 x Quad mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
      24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2.07lbs / 0.94kg shells, 1 000 per gun
	  Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
	  8 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 23 683 lbs / 10 742 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	17.7" / 450 mm	492.13 ft / 150.00 m	12.86 ft / 3.92 m
	Ends:	1.97" / 50 mm	328.05 ft / 99.99 m	12.86 ft / 3.92 m
	Upper:	1.97" / 50 mm	492.13 ft / 150.00 m	8.01 ft / 2.44 m
	  Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
		0.98" / 25 mm	492.13 ft / 150.00 m	28.02 ft / 8.54 m
	Beam between torpedo bulkheads 114.83 ft / 35.00 m

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	11.8" / 300 mm	      -			11.8" / 300 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
	For and Aft decks: 5.91" / 150 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
	Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Geared drive, 3 shafts, 132 416 shp / 98 782 Kw = 30.00 kts
	Range 1 200nm at 20.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 1 739 tons

Complement:
	1 544 - 2 008

Cost:
	£13.827 million / $55.309 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 3 869 tons, 8.6 %
	   - Guns: 3 869 tons, 8.6 %
	Armour: 14 165 tons, 31.5 %
	   - Belts: 5 528 tons, 12.3 %
	   - Torpedo bulkhead: 502 tons, 1.1 %
	   - Armament: 2 393 tons, 5.3 %
	   - Armour Deck: 5 581 tons, 12.4 %
	   - Conning Tower: 161 tons, 0.4 %
	Machinery: 4 299 tons, 9.6 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 18 148 tons, 40.3 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 519 tons, 10.0 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  55 123 lbs / 25 003 Kg = 28.2 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
	Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
	Roll period: 18.9 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and large transom stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.510 / 0.512
	Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 33.58 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 79
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20.00 %,  31.50 ft / 9.60 m,  25.79 ft / 7.86 m
	   - Forward deck:	30.00 %,  25.79 ft / 7.86 m,  20.05 ft / 6.11 m
	   - Aft deck:	30.00 %,  20.05 ft / 6.11 m,  20.05 ft / 6.11 m
	   - Quarter deck:	20.00 %,  20.05 ft / 6.11 m,  20.05 ft / 6.11 m
	   - Average freeboard:		22.51 ft / 6.86 m
	Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.6 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.5 %
	Waterplane Area: 65 854 Square feet or 6 118 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 227 lbs/sq ft or 1 107 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 1.00
		- Longitudinal: 1.47
		- Overall: 1.04
	Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
	Excellent accommodation and workspace room
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Post by **Steve** » 2009-10-23 03:12pm

I'm trying to design the Cascadian fleet from earlier designs to newest. Trying my hand at a first dreadnought, to be laid down in 1907. Getting an "undergunned or Underperforming" warning with a Composite strength of 1.18. The main problem is my displacement is too high for a first-run dreadnought.

NM, fixed it by reducing dimensions.

Dauntless, Cascadia Dreadnought laid down 1907

Displacement:
19,053 t light; 20,267 t standard; 22,515 t normal; 24,314 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(519.46 ft / 515.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (31.00 / 33.06 ft)
(158.33 m / 156.97 m) x 24.38 m x (9.45 / 10.08 m)

Armament:
10 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.25kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1907 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
22 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 14.29lbs / 6.48kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1907 Model
22 x Single mounts on sides amidships
20 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,028 lbs / 4,095 kg
2 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m torpedoes - 1.504 t each, 3.008 t total
In 2 sets of submerged side tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 334.75 ft / 102.03 m 10.73 ft / 3.27 m
Ends: 12.0" / 305 mm 180.23 ft / 54.93 m 10.73 ft / 3.27 m
Upper: 10.0" / 254 mm 334.75 ft / 102.03 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
2.00" / 51 mm 334.75 ft / 102.03 m 29.40 ft / 8.96 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 11.0" / 279 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck: 3.00" / 76 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36,408 shp / 27,161 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,047 tons

Complement:
918 - 1,194

Cost:
£1.787 million / $7.149 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,965 tons, 8.7 %
- Guns: 1,962 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedoes: 3 tons, 0.0 %
Armour: 9,105 tons, 40.4 %
- Belts: 4,230 tons, 18.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 728 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 2,244 tons, 10.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,713 tons, 7.6 %
- Conning Tower: 189 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,069 tons, 9.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,914 tons, 26.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,463 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,832 lbs / 13,078 Kg = 33.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.617 / 0.625
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.44 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.69 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 25.32 ft / 7.72 m, 16.12 ft / 4.91 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.12 ft / 4.91 m, 16.12 ft / 4.91 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.12 ft / 4.91 m, 16.12 ft / 4.91 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.12 ft / 4.91 m, 16.12 ft / 4.91 m
- Average freeboard: 16.86 ft / 5.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.4 %
Waterplane Area: 30,614 Square feet or 2,844 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 749 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Any ideas?

Post by **Steve** » 2009-10-23 03:20pm

Actually, it occurs to me that the drive possibly wouldn't be electric. I can change it to direct if needed.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2009-10-23 03:28pm

No, it wouldn't. For this time period you would look at either oil or coal-fired boilers, steam turbines with a geared drive.

Norseman · Post by **Norseman** » 2009-10-23 03:36pm

FOr comparison here is my own 1909 (as in laid down that year) dreadnaught, the first one built by the FSRB, also the only battleship class I've got with 12" guns.

Code: Select all

Rio de Janeiro, FSR of Brazil Battleship laid down 1909

Displacement:
	19,768 t light; 20,786 t standard; 22,558 t normal; 23,975 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
	565.21 ft / 550.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
	172.27 m / 167.64 m x 27.43 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1904 Model
	  Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
	  on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1906 Model
	  Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
	  on side, all amidships
      12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1905 Model
	  Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
	  on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
	  Machine guns in deck mounts 
	  on side, evenly spread
	Weight of broadside 9,960 lbs / 4,518 kg
	Shells per gun, main battery: 100
	2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	10.0" / 254 mm	300.00 ft / 91.44 m	10.00 ft / 3.05 m
	Ends:	5.00" / 127 mm	250.00 ft / 76.20 m	10.00 ft / 3.05 m
	Upper:	7.00" / 178 mm	300.00 ft / 91.44 m	11.00 ft / 3.35 m
	  Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
		2.00" / 51 mm	550.00 ft / 167.64 m	25.00 ft / 7.62 m

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	11.0" / 279 mm	10.0" / 254 mm		9.00" / 229 mm
	2nd:	5.00" / 127 mm	4.00" / 102 mm		4.00" / 102 mm
	3rd:	      -		      -			1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
	Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30,660 shp / 22,872 Kw = 21.22 kts
	Range 12,000nm at 10.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 3,190 tons

Complement:
	919 - 1,196

Cost:
	£1.933 million / $7.731 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 1,245 tons, 5.5 %
	Armour: 8,619 tons, 38.2 %
	   - Belts: 2,893 tons, 12.8 %
	   - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,018 tons, 4.5 %
	   - Armament: 2,282 tons, 10.1 %
	   - Armour Deck: 2,237 tons, 9.9 %
	   - Conning Tower: 189 tons, 0.8 %
	Machinery: 1,394 tons, 6.2 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,311 tons, 36.8 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,789 tons, 12.4 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  33,489 lbs / 15,190 Kg = 38.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.5 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
	Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
	Roll period: 16.5 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.56

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has raised forecastle
	Block coefficient: 0.550
	Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
	Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
	   - Stem:		28.04 ft / 8.55 m
	   - Forecastle (18 %):	22.00 ft / 6.71 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
	   - Mid (50 %):		17.85 ft / 5.44 m
	   - Quarterdeck (18 %):	17.85 ft / 5.44 m
	   - Stern:		17.85 ft / 5.44 m
	   - Average freeboard:	19.35 ft / 5.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.4 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.7 %
	Waterplane Area: 34,546 Square feet or 3,209 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 169 lbs/sq ft or 825 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 0.96
		- Longitudinal: 1.83
		- Overall: 1.03
	Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
	Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Post by **Steve** » 2009-10-23 04:10pm

Thanas wrote:No, it wouldn't. For this time period you would look at either oil or coal-fired boilers, steam turbines with a geared drive.

Unfortunately Geared Drive isn't selectable for some reason.

Norseman · Post by **Norseman** » 2009-10-23 04:11pm

Steve wrote:
Thanas wrote:No, it wouldn't. For this time period you would look at either oil or coal-fired boilers, steam turbines with a geared drive.
Unfortunately Geared Drive isn't selectable for some reason.

Because geared drives weren't developed at that stage, which is why my own 1909 ships don't have them, neither did the original Dreadnaught for that matter, they used direct drives.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2009-10-23 04:15pm

Argh. You are of course correct, Norseman - my mistake.

Post by **Steve** » 2009-10-23 04:18pm

Actually, looking at this, what does one put for the length of a torpedo (after diameter)?

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2009-10-23 04:22pm

German torpedoes:

50 cm diameter= 7.02 m length
60 diameters = 8m length.

This does however vary due to torpedo type etc.

Siege · Post by **Siege** » 2009-10-23 04:24pm

I took one look at this SpringSharp business and it's just as I feared, I don't understand what half the things in this program even mean, and I really can't be arsed to look them up. So, I'm just going to stick with rebranded historical designs instead.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2009-10-23 04:26pm

You are more than welcome to use some German designs if you want to.

Post by **Steve** » 2009-10-23 04:33pm

Contemplating how many different designs to have had. There seems to have been plenty of classes in the early years. The US, for instance, seems to have built two of each class up until around the late teens. Constant refinements, I suppose.

Siege · Post by **Siege** » 2009-10-23 04:36pm

Thanas wrote:You are more than welcome to use some German designs if you want to.

I probably will; I'm already looking at the historical Bayern class as a mold for my primary battleship (the Great Sultan class). Considering the Ottomans bought their ships from the Germans, it seems fitting to stick with their designs ('Course, I'm not the Ottomans, but I'm still the closest thing to them!)

So if Germany has neat new designs that fit my two-pointer fleet (doesn't do much ocean-going, primarily intended to keep my own shorelines clear, and maybe carry out the occasional wave-the-flag operation around the Horn of Africa and in the Persian Gulf), I'll gladly adopt them.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2009-10-23 04:47pm

A quick question - just what the heck does end-run firing mean and why are a few of my designs restricted to it?

For god's sake, I built an exact replica of the Iowa and still it has the end-run firing limitation.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2009-10-23 05:40pm

Thanas wrote:A quick question - just what the heck does end-run firing mean and why are a few of my designs restricted to it?

For god's sake, I built an exact replica of the Iowa and still it has the end-run firing limitation.

It means you can't fire to the beam without the ship rolling enough to potentially capsize. It can be partially fixed through the trim slider. Increasing the beam helps. First though, nudge the trim slider to the left until recoil is under 1.00.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2009-10-23 05:43pm

Hmm. Methinks that Springsharp is a bit bugged in that regard as even the Iowa has that limitation when I know that it did not in real life.

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2009-10-23 05:43pm

Bearing in mind that I know nothing of ship design, I present to you the Glorieuse-class battleship.
Spoiler

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2009-10-23 05:48pm

You still have the same end-on fire problem as I do. Ergo, no broadsides for you either.

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