SDN World 3 Country Claiming

[Thanas]

I think perhaps we should tweak population into more of a population density or an urbanization number. Very few countries manage to hit even a 3 on the population chart in 1925. France with 40 million only hits a 2. Germany only had 63 million. We should probably change it otherwise most European countries won't actually be able to support the level of industrialization they should by all rights have, or we have to go with crazily a historical populations like Norade did.

Norade's completely unfeasible Portugal aside, the population of 1925 is not really a good indicator due to WWI and disease killing a lot of people. Take the populations of 1914, they are more exact and assume a standard growth and the numbers do play out.

I would also like to point out that as it is in the wiki only 7 modern day countries would qualify for a 4 in Territory size (India, Argentina, Kazakhstan, the Sudan, Algeria, Congo and Greenland) and France, the country upheld as a 3 would fall 50,000 km^2 short of being a 3. This seems against the intention as countries with the territory of two or three of the bigger European countries globbed together would still only be a three. Land area is kinda tricky because the top 6 are all each bigger than any two of the next five combined. Hell, the top six combined are the bigger than the next 30! countries combined. Weird but true.

Meh. As long as it is just a bit less/more, we can always finagle that.

[Raesene]

Are there any countries still available ? I'm interested, but lost track of who owns what now...

[Thanas]

Map.

Portugal has been taken already.

[Norseman]

There are however tons of available colonial areas in Africa it would seem, maybe the East Indies are available too... not sure.

[Norade]

Most of what is left either used to be English or in Angola's case is an independent nation. I could always snap up Nigeria, Cameroon, and Chad and say we stole them from Britain way back though to get more room... I just want to have enough industry to enjoy my navy, and now I'm stuck figuring out population densities...

[Karmic Knight]

Map.

Portugal has been taken already.

As has Suriname and the East Indies.

Canada and Quebec are also open, as opposed to what the map says.

[Norade]

Portugal is open then, I'd be way happier playing Eastern Canada if it's open.

I'm claiming Manitoba east to Quebec, I'll do stats up later.

[Slacker]

Slacker, that works, with the caveat that the territories of Western Belorussia (Brest, Novogrudok, Pinsk, etc.) were only recently acquired by you during the 1917-1920 Russo-Polish border conflict, for it makes no sense for them to be a part of Poland historically. Let's say the USSR after a period of skirmishes and border offensives conceded them for the fear of involving itself into a major war which was just barely averted in 1915.

All other territories can be yours from the 1800s thanks to incompetent Tsars.

*tips cap*

Works for me.

[Raesene]

Has anyone claimed Mid-Italy ? If not, I'd like to have it (except the Vatican, I doubt me being Pope would be good for the game ).

If I read the map correctly, it would consist of everything between Tuscany/Emilia Romagna and Latium/Molise. Campania and Apulia being Byzantine, Liguria, Lombary and Venetia being part of the German Austro-Hungarian Protectorate.

For colonies, I'd be interested in Sokotra, New-Caledonia, Vanuatu, Fiji, the Solomons, Samoa, Mauritius/Reunion (do they belong to Madagascar ?) and Tanzania/Malawi/Sambia (if still available).

I'm open for suggestions, and would love a Caribean Island if one can be had.

[Norseman]

[quote="Raesene"]Has anyone claimed Mid-Italy ? If not, I'd like to have it (except the Vatican, I doubt me being Pope would be good for the game )./quote]

I assume so... I could play the Pope but then there'd be lots of excommunications. Yep, lots of those, that and firm action against the eastern schismatics.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Has anyone claimed Mid-Italy ? If not, I'd like to have it (except the Vatican, I doubt me being Pope would be good for the game )./quote]

I assume so... I could play the Pope but then there'd be lots of excommunications. Yep, lots of those, that and firm action against the eastern schismatics.

"The Pope? How many divisions has he got?"
Unnamed Steel Man

[Raesene]

[...]

"The Pope? How many divisions has he got?"
Unnamed Steel Man

I was aiming for this response when I posted the Pope-Question

Would it be acceptable to remove Piedmont, the Aosta Valley and Liguria from A-H and add it to Italy ?
That gives me shipyards and an industrial heartland, which was also the kernel for Italian Unification - does Germany really want this pin stuck in its protectorate ?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Heh. On the other hand, there's an Ecumenical Patriarch who's basically a Pope equivalent, vying with the Patriarch of Rome for religious dominance.

And unlike the Pope, the Ecumenical Patriarch lives in an Empire that still has teeth.

[Steve]

[...]

"The Pope? How many divisions has he got?"
Unnamed Steel Man

I was aiming for this response when I posted the Pope-Question

Would it be acceptable to remove Piedmont, the Aosta Valley and Liguria from A-H and add it to Italy ?
That gives me shipyards and an industrial heartland, which was also the kernel for Italian Unification - does Germany really want this pin stuck in its protectorate ?

If Thanas says no, then the answer is no.

For colonies, I'd be interested in Sokotra, New-Caledonia, Vanuatu, Fiji, the Solomons, Samoa, Mauritius/Reunion (do they belong to Madagascar ?) and Tanzania/Malawi/Sambia (if still available).

I believe Soccotra is Byzantine or Egyptian. New Caledonia is open if Baerne doesn't want it. Vanuatu and Fiji are British I believe, should ask Bean. Solomons up to Bougainville re open. Samoa is not - owned by Cascadia and Germany. Mauritius and Reunion are claimed, IIRC. Tanganyika has Germany holding the coast at Dar-es-Salaam and a Balkan Empire claim in the north. Malawi belongs to South Africa, so does part of Zambia I believe.

[Raesene]

proposed Tuscan Kingdom

Population: 1 (about 25 million)

Land Area: 1 (estimated 100 000 – 150 000 km²)

Colonial territory: 2 (above 200 000 km²) - Solomons and the western half of New Guinea

Industry: 3-4 well developed European Nation

Economy: 3-4 well developed European Nation

Infrastructure: 4 well developed European Nation

Standing Military: 2-3 standard for a nation, or perhaps less - open for discussion

Naval Focus: 3-4 for tech open for discussion I'd plan for good technology, but lower numbers than possible for the focus value.

Likely I'll choose some of the original Italian designs, maybe add a small carrier, a converted cruiser , for example a lower-tech version of the Independence-class.

Army Focus: 4 (original Italy had 300k in 1912, I’d go with about 100k -150k)

Air Focus: 3 about 120 planes, mostly fighters, but experimenting with dive bombers. no mid- or long-range aircraft except maritime patrol flying boats. Again. less plnaes than typical for the focus value.

The list above of couse subject to modifications, feedback welcome.

EDIT: Foci are now tech level, as it should be advanced; volume however would be lower than permitted by the foci as the Tuscan Kingdom is a small nation. I changed the stats according to Steve's post below

[Steve]

I'll note that Focus doesn't just determine force size, it determines support and sophistication. An Army Focus of 1 would be quite bad. You'd be, at best, early WWI level.

[Siege]

By the way I have a question for the various players here, does your nation have prohibition? Do you ban certain narcotics?

In the Sultanate, the distinction is a bit fuzzy. Technically drugs (including alcohol) would be illegal under Islamic law, and the Mukhabarat (the Sultan's secret police) could nab you for it... The reality of the matter is though that those laws are pretty selectively enforced, in many places even blatant use of drugs is simply tolerated, and there would be opium dens or something akin to it in many cities.

Of course one still shouldn't try smoking hashish or drinking booze on a street in Mecca, Medina or Jerusalem; that's just asking for trouble. But in Benghazi, Alexandria, Sawakin or Kuwait? Sure, knock yourself out. Just be sure not to cross the local Emir, because he'll use it to get you nailed.

Also, our interpretation of Shari'a isn't quite as draconian as the modern OTL version. We're not Wahabbists, we don't behead people unless they conspired against the Sultan, and stoning is right out of the question entirely. The worst you'll get is lashes or jailtime (or a fine, if your pockets are deep enough and you feign enough penitance).

And to answer your earlier question concerning how communists are regarded: the Sultanate is deeply, deeply suspicious of communists, but then we're equally suspicious of reformists of any kind. We're a pretty conservative society that's had bad experiences with people who wanted to change the status quo in the past, so if you want to start a movement that's perceived as revolutionary in any appreciable way there's a fair chance you'll get a midnight visit from either the Mukhabarat or the Hashasheen. Which means your career will be very short lived indeed.

[Steve]

Most of what is left either used to be English or in Angola's case is an independent nation. I could always snap up Nigeria, Cameroon, and Chad and say we stole them from Britain way back though to get more room... I just want to have enough industry to enjoy my navy, and now I'm stuck figuring out population densities...

That's a good idea.

And I don't recommend Canada. It's basically Manitoba, Upper Ontario, and Arctic wasteland at this point. I suppose I could not claim Saskatchewan ( ) but even that gets you a bit of oil and gas and a lot of agricultural land, which you really already have in northern Ontario and Manitoba.

Just stick with Portugal and claim Nigeria and Cameroon around the German base there. For Nigeria just have it where Bean's Britain, losing its inland empire, supported a Portuguese claim (Portugal's always been a historic ally of Britain) after it failed to subdue the Sokoto Caliphate. Portugal then lost Angola and Mozambique from the social pressures of fighting a long colonial war with the Sokoto, eventually conquering Nigeia.

Maybe cut a deal with Thanas for Portuguese access to the German base in Cameroon in exchange for raw materials from your colonies and some such.

And will there be any takers on Sudan? And there's a chunk of New Guinea I don't own and can't realistically own without spending more points on CT. Granted, it's not the best part (:P) but it's there. If not I guess I might eventually try to assert authority there post-game start.

[Setzer]

I don't think anyone's claimed Angola, and wasn't that once Portuguese?

[Raesene]

And will there be any takers on Sudan? And there's a chunk of New Guinea I don't own and can't realistically own without spending more points on CT. Granted, it's not the best part (:P) but it's there. If not I guess I might eventually try to assert authority there post-game start.

If New Guinea is still free, I'll take it, and upgrade my colonial value accordingly.

[Agent Sorchus]

Actually I would like to claim Sudan, Cameroon and what would be the Central African Republic.

[Steve]

I don't think anyone's claimed Angola, and wasn't that once Portuguese?

Angola's been claimed by Dark Hellion.

[Thanas]

Steve, Raesene, I may have found a solution re:Italy, please check your PMs.

[Siege]

Too bad, I'd've liked to see the Sudan as a 'wild wild west' type unclaimed frontier. Oh well.

If it doesn't conflict my territorial/colonial points set, I would like to claim the north of Saudi Arabia, stretching from directly underneath the Byzantine claim from Kuwait (which I claimed earlier but the map doesn't reflect yet) down to Riyadh-Bahrain. I don't need anything farther south because there's nothing there but sand, and because I don't necessarily need to border the dickeries that will inevitably transpire in Yemen/Oman.

[Agent Sorchus]

Too bad, I'd've liked to see the Sudan as a 'wild wild west' type unclaimed frontier. Oh well.

Heh, I think there will be sections that won't be to dissimilar to what you envision.