Some numbers behind the healthcare debate?

[stormthebeaches]

Could someone provide me with some numerical evidence that universal healthcare is better than private healthcare? Thanks.

[Thanas]

Link

Link

Link

[Darth Wong]

US health-care administrative overhead is roughly 3x as high per capita as Canada's health-care administrative overhead.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/349/8/768

Frankly, the linked comments of people criticizing the article only strengthen it; most of them are very off-the-cuff talking points which make little or no effort to find fault with the work, and instead just try to change the subject to look for other excuses to dismiss or belittle Canada's health care system.

[stormthebeaches]

Thanks guys. I shall use these next time I get into a debate with American Conservatives.

[Serafina]

Thanks guys. I shall use these next time I get into a debate with American Conservatives.

Won't do much good, since they normally blame it on stuff like
-the US has more health problems (smoking, over-weight) - tough they do not recongize them as solvable by health care
-The US has a larger population (hence, totally failing statistics)
-the health care system in other countries treating less stuff
-that these other countries deny health care very often

and a shitload of other excuses.

[Kodiak]

Thanks guys. I shall use these next time I get into a debate with American Conservatives.

Won't do much good, since they normally blame it on stuff like
-the US has more health problems (smoking, over-weight) - tough they do not recongize them as solvable by health care
-The US has a larger population (hence, totally failing statistics)
-the health care system in other countries treating less stuff
-that these other countries deny health care very often

and a shitload of other excuses.

I was flummoxed when I tried to show someone that the US infant mortality rate and life expectancy were lowest in "first-world" nations and they said "well, those numbers need to be normalized for our population." Is this even a real thing? I've had numerous people say that you can't compare statistics between the US and smaller countries because they're so different. I used the wikipedia page on infant mortality as an example, and their numbers come from the "CIA world factbook". Anyone know what "normalized results" are, or are they just a conserve-tard talking point?

Note: None of my friends have every been able to show me normalized statistics.

[TheLostVikings]

Thanks guys. I shall use these next time I get into a debate with American Conservatives.

Won't do much good, since they normally blame it on stuff like
-the US has more health problems (smoking, over-weight) - tough they do not recongize them as solvable by health care
-The US has a larger population (hence, totally failing statistics)
-the health care system in other countries treating less stuff
-that these other countries deny health care very often

and a shitload of other excuses.

I was flummoxed when I tried to show someone that the US infant mortality rate and life expectancy were lowest in "first-world" nations and they said "well, those numbers need to be normalized for our population." Is this even a real thing? I've had numerous people say that you can't compare statistics between the US and smaller countries because they're so different. I used the wikipedia page on infant mortality as an example, and their numbers come from the "CIA world factbook". Anyone know what "normalized results" are, or are they just a conserve-tard talking point?

Note: None of my friends have every been able to show me normalized statistics.

In this case "Normalized statistics" obviously means "I don't know what a percentage is."

[Darth Wong]

I was flummoxed when I tried to show someone that the US infant mortality rate and life expectancy were lowest in "first-world" nations and they said "well, those numbers need to be normalized for our population." Is this even a real thing?

They obviously don't understand what "per capita" and "average" mean, since those are already normalized figures. This is a clear case of a very dogmatic person who looks for flimsy excuses to dismiss information that does not conform to his rigid expectations.

I've had numerous people say that you can't compare statistics between the US and smaller countries because they're so different. I used the wikipedia page on infant mortality as an example, and their numbers come from the "CIA world factbook". Anyone know what "normalized results" are, or are they just a conserve-tard talking point?

It's not even a talking point; it's just a stalling tactic. However, if he is very clumsily referring to a conservatard talking point, he's probably talking about the oft-repeated fact that the infant mortality rate is much better when you exclude poor people and blacks. Of course, it goes without saying that it is unreasonable to act as if a large part of your population doesn't exist when comparing your nation to others. Not to mention the rather glaring moral deficiency inherent in declaring that a high infant mortality is not a problem if it doesn't affect you personally, which is what that whole "let's exclude the poor and the blacks" argument secretly means.

Note: None of my friends have every been able to show me normalized statistics.

Of course not, because they're just stalling and weaseling. It's not as if Canada doesn't have its own particular problems for life expectancy, such as extremely harsh winters, many small isolated communities, etc. Our native reserves can be as ugly as your ghettos. Americans have a nasty tendency to think that they're soooooo special and unique, and that nothing from other countries can be applied to them.

[Johonebesus]

Actually, it is a talking point to say that the statistics are worse for the U.S. because we have a higher population. I know O'Reilly used it, and I think I've heard it from other talking heads. Obviously it is just an utter ignorance of basic math, but it usually pops up when the talking head is unchallenged, and if he is challenged he'll just shout over the poor sane person. That's why it is pointless to debate the bottom third of the nation, the followers of Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck. When confronted with reality their response is just, "Nuh-uh!"

[Guardsman Bass]

I've found some interesting articles over the years. This is a review of studies comparing health care treatment outcomes between the US and Canada. Aside from one or two things (Canada, for some reason, seems to be exceptionally good at treating end-term renal disease), it shows few real differences in outcomes between the US and Canada - in spite of the Canadian system having socialized insurance, lower doctor pay, lower per capita costs, etc.