SGU Analysis Thread (Spoilers)

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SGU Analysis Thread (Spoilers)

Post by NecronLord »

This thread is for any kind of technical analysis based on the new series Stargate Universe, and general technical speculation on the operation of the main spacecraft in the series the Ancient vessel Destiny.

To date the series has made an unprecedented effort to use real science and concepts of spacetravel, having featured things like finding lime for the air-processing systems, correct use of aerobraking and gravity slingshots, as well as accurate use of terms like delta-v and thrust-to-weight ratio, and even newer phrases such as 'goldilocks zone' and 'comet-catcher' and correct suggestion of tidally locked planets around a Red Dwarf. It’s even handled depressurization well. They even seem to have given some detail to the ‘countdown clock’ in the background, to make it fit with the dialogue in scenes it appears in.

While ancient texts in stargate have long used a simple symbol-substitution code, they can’t generally be presumed to be valid in-universe information because it doesn’t fit with the dialogue. The actual spoken Ancient language is not English. I think this clock can be considered valid because of how accurately it fits the dialogue, with the clock showing a modern sexagesimal number system, except its last column that appears to show centiseconds.

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Some time-skips appear to happen in 'Air' between even tense scenes, but whenever the clock is shown and someone speaks about it, the dialogue roughly matches the Ancient number shown. Therefore, it seems that the clock displays Hours:Minutes:Seconds:Centiseconds.

What's the relevance of this? In episode 5 'Light,' Destiny enters a Red Dwarf star to restore her power reserves, while part of the crew take her shuttle to a planet identified as (marginally) inhabitable to avoid the apparent death of this action. When Destiny leaves the star, her engines come on and she accellerates past this inhabitable planet. As she leaves the star, the countdown activates, indicating the ship intends to go to FTL again.
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In these last two shots, they've caught up with the shuttle, which has passed the habitable planet, and are preparing to dock.

In a long-shot shortly before Destiny passes into the photosphere, she seems to cover her own length against the background of the photosphere below about seven times per second by my estimation (I've seen no scalings, and will wait to see if a clearer image of her scale appears, but I'm assuming she's no more than three or so kilometers long) therefore that this speed is less than twenty kilometers per second.

Of course, this information isn't much use unless we can tell how far away the planet is. Which, interestingly, we can. The Red Dwarf Gliese 581 has been studied in reality because of the possibility that some of its exoplanets may be habitable. Science Daily article

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(Image from Science Daily article)

Now, using 0.13 AU as the basis of our stargate planet's minimum orbit (it's much likely further out, as due to its lack of greenhouse gases, it's very cold, but I'm aiming for a lower-limit figure here) because this is within the minimum orbit of both models, we can estimate its lower end accelleration.

d = ut+(0.5*a)t²

d = Distance Displacement = 0.13 AU = 19,447,723,190 meters =~ 19,000,000,000 m
u = Initial velocity =~ 20,000 m/s
t = Time taken = 2:59:57-06:39 = 2:53:18 =10,398 seconds =~ 10,000 sec
a = ?
Therefore, using the two-significant-figure figures:
19,000,000,000=20,000*10000+0.5a*100,000,000
Which simplifies to
19000000000 = 200000000 + 50000000a
Which solves to
a = 376 m/s/s low end

This is distinctly unimpressive, compared to other Stargate accelerations (though impressive enough given the realistic feel of this show so far) which are often thousands of Gs or more, but it's been suggested elsewhere that the ship intended to allow the shuttle to return, which makes sense given its seemingly AI (if not sapient) computer systems. I've also preferred low-end figures wherever possible for this number.
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Re: SGU Analysis Thread (Spoilers)

Post by NecronLord »

Quick update on the above:

Assuming the star is directly equivalent to Gl581, its escape velocity (and Destiny was literally at its surface) should be (offhand) 1,185,825 m/sec which would take some time to accomplish, but as the Destiny was constantly accellerating, that's irrelevant anyway.

More impressively, its anti-gravity, to coast above the sun (it wasn't nearly fast enough to be orbiting) using the same star as an example, and below its photosphere, must be capable of:

G*(Msun*0.31)/(Rsun*0.29)^2 = 1009.24238 m/s/s or around a hundred Gs.

Interestingly, Dr Rush does mention the star's gravity as a danger, but clearly the Ancients' technology can protect them.

I have no idea how to work out the magnetic effects.

EDIT: Actually, I may have done the 'surface gravity' quite incorrectly. Will check tomorrow if I've time.
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Re: SGU Analysis Thread (Spoilers)

Post by CaptJodan »

Any hard numbers for size? I've been searching around, but haven't seen any answers to that one yet.

Clearly the shields should be pretty potent as well, given that it regularly goes dipping into stars.
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Re: SGU Analysis Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Ragnarok »

CaptJodan wrote:Any hard numbers for size? I've been searching around, but haven't seen any answers to that one yet.

Clearly the shields should be pretty potent as well, given that it regularly goes dipping into stars.
It might be possible to get a rough idea judging from the schematics that are floating around of the shuttle, and its size in relation to what we've seen of the Destiny.
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Re: SGU Analysis Thread (Spoilers)

Post by NecronLord »

CaptJodan wrote:Any hard numbers for size? I've been searching around, but haven't seen any answers to that one yet.
There's a few ways you could scale; using the pull-backs seen in Air part 3, and Light, as well as maybe basing it off the shuttles, which Joe Mallozi has posted set-designs for labelled in feet. However, I'm waiting before having an attempt to scale Destiny to see if anything else comes up.
Clearly the shields should be pretty potent as well, given that it regularly goes dipping into stars.
From a thermal point of view, it's not necesserily more potent than a ha'tak's shields. A Red Dwarf's surface temperature is 3,500K, a blue giant's is around 30,000 K, though of course, the ha'tak wasn't actually at the photosphere, and its visuals put it rather further out than the dialogue did.
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Re: SGU Analysis Thread (Spoilers)

Post by starslayer »

NecronLord wrote:I have no idea how to work out the magnetic effects.
I'm not really sure why he mentioned them. On the scale of the Destiny, the magnetic field around a star should be pretty much uniform. And although stellar magnetic fields are very strong on a planetary scale, at the photosphere, it's unlikely that the field strength was greater than a few hundred μT (for comparison, the Earth's magnetic field at it's surface is about 1E-4 T). Simply put, there is no real reason for the Destiny to be affected by the stellar magnetic field at all.
EDIT: Actually, I may have done the 'surface gravity' quite incorrectly. Will check tomorrow if I've time.
Your calculation of g is approximately correct. However, given the size of the Destiny, and the fact that d/dr(g) should be very small at the surface of a star, mean that the ship will not feel any significant tidal effects, and the only danger to it would be not being able to keep itself up.
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Re: SGU Analysis Thread (Spoilers)

Post by NecronLord »

starslayer wrote:
NecronLord wrote:I have no idea how to work out the magnetic effects.
I'm not really sure why he mentioned them. On the scale of the Destiny, the magnetic field around a star should be pretty much uniform. And although stellar magnetic fields are very strong on a planetary scale, at the photosphere, it's unlikely that the field strength was greater than a few hundred μT (for comparison, the Earth's magnetic field at it's surface is about 1E-4 T). Simply put, there is no real reason for the Destiny to be affected by the stellar magnetic field at all.
I thought it might be something like that, yes.
EDIT: Actually, I may have done the 'surface gravity' quite incorrectly[/. Will check tomorrow if I've time.
Your calculation of g is approximately correct.
Many thanks for your verification, it's saved me quite a bit of bother. :)
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