Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

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Kodiak
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Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Kodiak »

You Rage, You lose

I know many of you will be tempted to tl;dr, but I was blown away by these statistics.
Politico wrote:
Media Matters coordinates campaign against 'lethal' Fox


An official at a Democratic-leaning organization sends on a memo the group Media Matters is circulating today to progressive groups, calling Fox "a lethal 24/7 partisan political operation" and rallying a coalition of groups to join the White House assault on the network.

"The danger to progressive causes and the institution of journalism has become too significant to ignore," says the introduction to a memo by Media Matters founder David Brock. "At Media Matters, we believe it is of paramount importance that progressive leaders have the information necessary to understand exactly what Fox News has become. We hope this brief memorandum will assist you in reaching your own decision on how best to engage this threat."

One of the group's conclusions: Progressive groups should join the White House's effective boycott of the network, and failing that, "any progressive who chooses to go on Fox News should understand that they will be debating the political opposition, not conducting a news interview."

Brock concludes:

Fox News is engaged in a 24-hours-a-day, seven-days-a-week political campaign against the Obama administration, the progressive movement, and the entire progressive agenda. There is no real distinction between its "opinion" and so-called "news" programs. They both display the same contempt for journalistic standards, objectivity, and accuracy. The examples provided above represent a mere fraction of those Media Matters has collected and offer much for progressives to consider when deciding whether or how to engage Fox. In our professional opinion, any progressive engaging Fox News will be engaging not a journalistic enterprise, but the political opposition.

When confronted with evidence and charges such as these, Fox has reacted forcefully to protect its image, brand, and ratings. This reveals that it is not impervious to criticism. In fact, Fox is scared. One need look no further than its paranoid reaction to the recent comments of Anita Dunn to see this fear. "If they repeat this long enough," said Fox's Bernie Goldberg on October 19, "and often enough – that Fox News is not a real news organization, it's an arm of the national Republican Party, it's not to be taken seriously – if they say that long enough, it might become part of bloodstream of the American culture."

For once, Mr. Goldberg’s network was broadcasting the truth. Fox News’ success as a political campaign depends upon the pretense of being an independent and credible news organization. It is now the job of progressives to expose the true nature of the network, thereby defending their own political principles and the institution of journalism itself.

Dear:

In recent days, a new level of scrutiny has been directed toward Fox News, in no small part due to statements from the White House, and from Media Matters, challenging its standing as a news organization.

Media Matters has monitored Fox News every day for more than 5 years. Our analysis of their programming has led us to the unavoidable conclusion that Fox is no longer operating as a “conservative news organization,” but as an outright partisan political operation – and brazenly so.

Since the election of Barack Obama, the Fox News Channel has transformed itself into something truly unprecedented: a lethal 24/7 partisan political operation with an instantaneous national reach. Fox has declared war on this White House, the majority in the United States Congress, and progressive organizations and activists. For Fox News, victory is defined as the destruction of both the Obama administration and the entire progressive policy agenda. Fox News host Glenn Beck predicted last week that he will soon "take the administration down."

The danger to progressive causes and the institution of journalism has become too significant to ignore. At Media Matters, we believe it is of paramount importance that progressive leaders have the information necessary to understand exactly what Fox News has become. We hope this brief memorandum will assist you in reaching your own decision on how best to engage this threat.

As our evidence demonstrates, Fox News has exhibited a consistent willingness to ignore any and all journalistic standards to pursue political ends. The failure to recognize Fox News for what it is enables the network to continue waging a massive conservative political campaign disguised as journalism.

We hope you find this information helpful. If you have any questions or would like any additional information, please feel free to contact Media Matters at your convenience. Together, we can hold Fox News accountable to the high standards of journalism every American has a right to expect from their media.

Sincerely,

David Brock

Founder & CEO, Media Matters for America


October 22, 2009

To: Progressive Leaders
From: David Brock

RE: A New Approach to Fox News

Over the past several years, there has been an escalating debate among both progressive elected officials and leaders regarding the nature of Fox News and the way in which progressives should view the network. That debate has increased in intensity in the wake of recent comments by Anita Dunn and other administration officials. Media Matters has been listening closely to this discussion, and, as an organization which has followed Fox News for years, was one of the first to describe what the network has now become. We feel it is our responsibility, therefore, to further the discussion by clearly and concisely presenting evidence from which we have drawn our conclusions.

Since the election of Barack Obama, the Fox News Channel has transformed itself from its original format – one that essentially put conservative talk radio on television – into something truly unprecedented: a lethal partisan political operation that is at war with progressives, disguised as a news channel, and for whom victory is defined as the destruction of the Obama administration and the entire progressive agenda. Glenn Beck said so himself last week, predicting that he would soon "take the administration down." This transition has been so stark that I would not have written this memo a year or even six months ago, but the threat Fox News now presents has become too dangerous to ignore.

It is of paramount importance that the mainstream media, progressive leaders, opinion makers of all stripes, and the American people come to understand what Fox News is and what it is not. Too many reporters and commentators have continued to treat Fox as a news organization and have discussed criticism of it in the context of mere political brinksmanship. By doing so, they are enabling Fox News to conduct a massive conservative political campaign under the guise of journalism, undermining the field as well as the public's understanding of key issues.

As previously stated, the evidence at hand has led us to the unavoidable conclusion that Fox News is not a news organization. Below is a mere sampling of the observations we have made and examples we have collected that demonstrate Fox News’ inherently political nature and its consistent willingness to ignore journalistic standards in the pursuit of political ends.

Finally, we hope to convey our belief that any progressive who chooses to go on Fox News should understand that they will be debating the political opposition, not conducting a news interview.



The New Fox News


Media Matters has not come to hold our view of Fox News lightly. Every day for the past five years, our researchers have monitored Fox News and debunked countless instances of misinformation. However, what they have witnessed over the past several months is both new and deeply disturbing. In that time, Fox News has, among other things:

• Compared the President of the United States, members of Congress and progressive leaders to Nazis and genocidal dictators such as Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Mao Zedong;
• Referred to President Barack Obama as a racist who has a “deep seeded hatred for white people”;
• Repeated calls for revolution in the supposed defense of liberty;
• Simulated the assassination of Speaker Nancy Pelosi on air;
• Routinely insinuated that the Obama administration and Democratic Congress are destroying the United States as we know it.

This rhetoric itself is shocking, but it is merely an evocative representation of the overall political strategy Fox News is now implementing.

When the White House recently voiced concerns about these developments, Michael Clemente, the channel’s senior vice president for news, responded in a revealing way: “Instead of governing, the White House continues to be in campaign mode, and Fox News is the target of their attack mentality. ... Perhaps the energy would be better spent on the critical issues that voters are worried about.”

This is not the statement of a news executive. It is campaign spin. Glenn Beck was not wrong about Fox News’ place in the political ecosystem when just this week on his radio show he stated, "Can you imagine what America would be like if we didn't have Fox News. ... Can you imagine what the world would be like if we didn't have somebody standing up and playing opposition?"

A Political Campaign, Not a News Network

Fox News is not a news operation. It now comprises all of the elements of a political campaign, including organizing, explicitly partisan advocacy, (highly dubious) opposition research, War Room-style attack communications and even fundraising for the Republican Party and the conservative movement. Consider the following realities:

• Fox CEO Roger Ailes described Fox News’ fight against the Obama administration as "the Alamo." Fox's senior vice president for news, Bill Shine, said the network was "the voice of the opposition."

• More than any other organization – even Newt Gingrich’s American Solutions or Dick Armey’s FreedomWorks – Fox News was the driving force behind the April 15 anti-Obama Tea Parties (described by organizers as part of a 2010 electoral strategy), running 20 stories on them and 73 in-show promotions in the week leading up to them. Fox sponsored the events, branding many of them as "FNC Tax Day Tea Parties." In addition, the network publicized the dates and locations of the events on its website, promoted organizations sponsoring the protests, and multiple Fox hosts broadcast live from protest locations.

• Over the summer, Fox News hosts unabashedly directed viewers to attend August town halls, urging them to "fight back," and as Sean Hannity put it, "become part of the mob." The network largely provided information for meetings hosted by Democratic Members of Congress. At one point, it claimed that it would list GOP town halls too if it could find the relevant times and dates, all of which were easily accessible online. In its coverage, Fox relentlessly promoted town hall attendees who attacked Democratic health care reform efforts. For example, during the week of August 24, Fox News aired 22 clips of town hall meeting attendees expressing an opinion or asking a question that opposed progressive health care reform efforts, but aired zero clips of town hall attendees expressing an opinion or asking a question supporting reform.

• The anti-Obama 9/12 rally in Washington DC stemmed from Glenn Beck’s 9/12 Project, and Fox News again worked to turn out their viewers, manufacturing an event meant to convey widespread opposition to everything Obama. (In no small part due to Fox's efforts the spectacle was then covered as such across multiple media channels nationwide.) At the rally, a Fox News producer was caught on camera revving up the crowd. Beck soon reported that 1.7 million people had attended the event, even though unofficial estimates put the crowd size at about 60,000 to 75,000 participants.

• Fox News is waging a vicious witch hunt against Obama administration officials, not only distorting their records, but actively campaigning for their firing or elimination. Targets have already included Van Jones, Cass Sunstein, John Holdren, Kevin Jennings, and Valerie Jarrett. After Jones resigned, the Fox Nation, the network's new website, literally declared victory.
Nor was this an isolated incident:

Fox News routinely invents scandals, such as the supposed controversy surrounding President Obama's speech to the nation's schoolchildren. Fox deliberately invites outrage, which then becomes "news." For example, Fox Nation asked parents to “sound off” on the subject.

Similarly, Fox's obsessive and stunningly disproportionate fixation on subjects like ACORN reveal the clear partisan orientation of its operations. Consider the following data from a recent Media Matters study focused on the programming of Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity:

It is further revealing to consider that while this study factored in Beck's time on CNN Headline News prior to his departure to Fox News, 1,002 of his program's 1,045 total ACORN mentions occurred on his Fox program – approximately 95.9%.

Does any of this activity sound like the work of a real news organization? Is it any wonder that potential 2012 Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney has paid tribute to FoxNation.com, encouraging people to visit the site? "Hey, FoxNation.com and my fans there, they're the best," he recently said. "Keep it going. I hope that we get a lot of strength and that helps us in 2010 and the years beyond."

Lobbying and Fundraising

Matching the behavior of a political campaign, Fox now openly lobbies on air in opposition to progressive legislation. Glenn Beck, Betsy McCaughey, Newt Gingrich, Dick Morris, Michele Bachmann, and others have all implored viewers to call Capitol Hill. Hosts commonly display congressional phone numbers, and have even provided talking points to pass on to their members of Congress.

Fox News also acts as a fundraising arm of conservative political operations. Fox News contributor Dick Morris and host Mike Huckabee use their airtime to direct viewers to support PACs and 527s they are connected to. These entities have used their funds to support Republican campaigns. Even though this behavior has been publicly documented, Fox News has made no effort to stop it.

Directly Lifting GOP Documents

It has also become increasingly difficult to tell the difference between Fox and the GOP opposition research department. We’re not talking about simply echoing a talking point. On multiple occasions this year, Fox News has simply lifted Republican documents and put them on air without identifying the source. For example:

• Fox News anchor Jon Scott purported to "take a look back" at how the economic recovery plan "grew, and grew, and grew." In doing so, Scott referenced seven specific dates and used on-screen graphics citing various news sources from those time periods -- all of which came directly from a Senate Republican Communications Center press release. One on-screen graphic even reproduced a typo contained in the Republican press release.

• Host Bill Hemmer repeatedly suggested information concerning four "interesting" projects reportedly funded by the Economic Recovery Act was obtained through Fox News' own research. However, nearly all of the information Hemmer mentioned first appeared on Rep. Eric Cantor's Republican Whip website.

Opinion 24/7

It is crucial to emphasize that the two instances cited above did not occur during one of Fox News’ “opinion” shows. Rather, they occurred during shows Fox News claims to be straight news reporting. In response to increasing pressure, Fox News’ leadership has attempted in desperation to draw an illusory distinction between the two. “The average consumer certainly knows the difference between the A section of the newspaper and the editorial page,” Michael Clemente recently told The New York Times.

Opinion certainly has its place on the cable dial. But at Fox News, it is all partisan politics, all the time. Numerous examples abound, but consider the following few:

• America's Newsroom (9 a.m. – 11 a.m. ET):
→ America's Newsroom repeatedly directed viewers to participate in a "virtual tea party." On April 10, Hemmer told viewers, "Can't get to a tea party? Fox Nation hosts a virtual tea party," while co-host Megyn Kelly said, "You can join the tea party action from your home if you go to the FoxNation.com ... a virtual tax day tea party."

• Happening Now (11 a.m.-1 p.m. ET):
→ During two segments on the April 1, Happening Now aired "FOXfact" purporting to describe facts about the House Republican budget. However, all of the seven "FOXfact" displayed onscreen were nearly identical to portions of an op-ed by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) published in that day's Wall Street Journal.

• Live Desk (1-3 p.m. ET):
→ On March 16, Live Desk co-host Martha MacCallum claimed that "after week of economic doom and gloom, the Obama administration is now singing a slightly different tune. Take a look at what was said in recent interviews this weekend." Live Desk then aired clips of administration officials purportedly giving an optimistic view of the economy, including video of Vice President Joe Biden stating, "The fundamentals of the economy are strong." However, Biden did not make those remarks during an "interview" that weekend; he made them at a September 2008 campaign event in which he criticized Sen. John McCain for making that statement. MacCallum apologized the next day.

• Special Report (6-7 p.m. ET)
→ A recent study coordinated by the Center for Media and Public Affairs found that on Special Report with Bret Baier – the closest thing Fox has to a straight newscast – 77 percent of its coverage of President Obama was negative, and only 23 percent positive – twice as negative as the network news channels. As an example of this: on June 29, Baier falsely suggested that Obama has cited Canada's medical system as a "possible model" even though Obama has explicitly rejected a Canadian-style health care system.

Fox News’ institutional imperative is perhaps most succinctly revealed by the graphics aired during the broadcast "news" day. As before, examples are too numerous to include in full, but simply consider this: When the House completed debate on the Hate Crimes Bill, Fox ran a graphic stating, “House Dems Vote to Protect Pedophiles, But Not Veterans.”

As with the above examples, this graphic was run not during an evening "opinion" show, but during America's Newsroom.

Fox News Audience Isn't Persuadable

Despite these stark realities, there still exists the admittedly attractive argument for trying to reach a broader audience. Moderate and conservative Democrats especially may feel the need to appear on Fox News in order to reach more voters in their districts. But this is mostly a mirage. In campaigns, resources and energy are typically devoted to persuadable audiences, not to the hardest part of the opponents’ base.

Despite claims to the contrary, from an electoral standpoint, watching Fox News is one of the highest correlating factors to voting Republican. In 2006, pollster Mark Mellman wrote in The Hill:

“Yet, in our 2004 polling with Media Vote, using Nielsen diaries, we found that Fox News viewers supported George Bush over John Kerry by 88 percent to 7 percent. No demographic segment, other than Republicans, was as united in supporting Bush. Conservatives, white evangelical Christians, gun owners, and supporters of the Iraq war all gave Bush fewer votes than did regular Fox News viewers.”

In the run up to the 2008 election, Rasmussen reported similar results:

“Eighty-seven percent (87%) of Fox News viewers say they are likely to vote for John McCain . . . only nine percent of those who watch Fox News say they will vote for Obama.”

Think of it this way: a progressive is no more likely to persuade a Fox News viewer than they are to persuade participants in a GOP county convention – and even less likely to win Fox News viewers than key members of Republican demographics such as white Born-Again Christians and gun owners.

Progressive participation on the network in recent years has yielded no apparent benefit. Approximately the same proportion of Fox News viewers said they were going to vote for Barack Obama as voted for John Kerry, while nearly every other constituency increased in Democratic performance.

Furthermore, on the issues, active progressive participation on Fox shows over the years does not appear to have persuaded the Fox audience to reconsider their views. A study published in October 2003 and conducted by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy found that Americans held numerous misconceptions concerning crucial details regarding the justifications for the Iraq war, specifically that links between Iraq and al Qaeda existed; that weapons of mass destruction had been located in the country following the invasion; and that world public opinion supported the U.S.-led conflict. Crucially, viewers who relied on Fox News as their primary source of news were most likely to be misinformed. From the study:

And in that regard, times haven't changed. A recent poll conducted by NBC recently found:

“72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will give coverage to illegal immigrants, 79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover, 69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and 75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly.”

Yes, progressives need to reach out to moderate and conservative voting blocs and reason with and reach all those with whom they may not agree – but Fox's hard-right audience makes it of little use for such an effort.

For Fox News, Progressives Are Just Fresh Meat

Fox News is such hostile territory that a progressive appearing on it can't even expect to be treated with civility. Fox hosts have been consistently disrespectful to Democrats and progressives who appear on their airwaves. Even worse, Fox has used the tapes of these interviews to then further smear progressive guests when they are unable to defend themselves.

Consider the following example: Several weeks ago, U.S. Rep. Barney Frank appeared on The O’Reilly Factor to discuss the ACORN controversy. Fox & Friends co-host Steve Doocy later played the tape of Frank's appearance and then attacked him by claiming he had “somebody running a prostitution ring out of his house.” Bill O’Reilly had not raised the charge during his interview, nor was Frank there to defend himself when Doocy leveled the charge against him.

Not long ago, Salon.com editor Joan Walsh valiantly used an appearance on Bill O’Reilly’s show to call out Fox News’ atrocious coverage. But confronted with criticism, O’Reilly lost his composure, accusing her of “having blood on her hands” for holding pro-choice views. It’s not too much to conclude that the more appropriately confrontational a progressive guest is in the Fox News format, the more likely they are to be subjected to this sort of sickening caricature by hosts who control the set. Just last week, Democratic strategist Steve McMahon was called a “radical socialist” and “Mr. Liberal” in the course of a “friendly” interview by Sean Hannity. And just last week, Fox fired Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, one of the more outspoken liberal guests on the network who had in the past defended individuals such as Van Jones.

In each of these instances, Fox News put its own agenda before its responsibility to anything resembling serious discussion. These should serve as instructive examples for progressives who are considering whether or not to engage Fox News.

Even if you yourself are not subject to such disparaging treatment, there is no reason to think that your five-minute segment would provide any real value or political upside in the overall context of 23 hours and 55 minutes a day 365 days a year of partisan political programming aimed at destroying the Obama administration, the Democratic leadership, and the progressive legislative agenda.

Conclusion

As the above evidence proves, Fox News is engaged in a 24-hours-a-day, seven-days-a-week political campaign against the Obama administration, the progressive movement, and the entire progressive agenda. There is no real distinction between its "opinion" and so-called "news" programs. They both display the same contempt for journalistic standards, objectivity, and accuracy. The examples provided above represent a mere fraction of those Media Matters has collected and offer much for progressives to consider when deciding whether or how to engage Fox. In our professional opinion, any progressive engaging Fox News will be engaging not a journalistic enterprise, but the political opposition.

When confronted with evidence and charges such as these, Fox has reacted forcefully to protect its image, brand, and ratings. This reveals that it is not impervious to criticism. In fact, Fox is scared. One need look no further than its paranoid reaction to the recent comments of Anita Dunn to see this fear. "If they repeat this long enough," said Fox's Bernie Goldberg on October 19, "and often enough – that Fox News is not a real news organization, it's an arm of the national Republican Party, it's not to be taken seriously – if they say that long enough, it might become part of bloodstream of the American culture."

For once, Mr. Goldberg’s network was broadcasting the truth. Fox News’ success as a political campaign depends upon the pretense of being an independent and credible news organization. It is now the job of progressives to expose the true nature of the network, thereby defending their own political principles and the institution of journalism itself.


Emphasis mine. I was totally floored by the statistics, and though these ideas are not new the degree of GOP deepthroating going on over on Fox can now be quantified.

Thread title edited to remove pointless Internet shorthand-Bean
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Mr Bean »

Honestly Kodiak, ITT in the thread title? Do you need help reminding were to look to figure out what a topic is about?
Now for those unfamiliar with Media Matters (An acknowledged left-leaning progressive group) let me spill the beans on their devistating secret never fail attack.

You read?
Ok...
They watch the news... and record it...
Yes it's just that simple. Their main tactic over the past few years has simply been to follow folks like the Fox News Commentator's shows and record and note every time they make a statement Pro or Con on an issue. Then when the issue comes up again they compare it to the previously stated position and see if it still holds true...

It's just that simple... Yet it works way to damn well these days. Here they have complied all the Woo is Me statements Fox has made in the past, then contrasted them with all the down with the Socialist messages they gave the day's and weeks before. It's too goddamn easy but our media has gone so far to the shit in buddy/buddy non-conflict that the network's never go after each other now. Now the are all one big happy family and how dare you point out that Fox News repeats Republican talking points vertbatium every day! Sometimes even including the typo from the original Republican party press release... How dare you sir!
I of course expect nothing to come of this. Because if there's one thing I know. It's that Democrats can be countered on to surrender.

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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Xusilak »

This quote from the comments section really belies a typical conservative drone's attempts to sound intelligent:
I'm sorry to point this out to you but I think you might have cut and pasted from another article you surely must be writing on the current administration. I've taken the liberty to make the corrections for you. The Obama administration is not a presidential administration. It now comprises all of the elements of a political campaign, including organizing, explicitly partisan advocacy, (highly dubious) opposition research, War Room-style attack communications and even fundraising for the democratic party (lower case for emphasis) and the "progressive" party (lower case and quotes for emphasis).
Posted By: | October 24, 2009 at 02:04 AM
Yes, this guy really thinks calling the Obama administration a political organization is some kind of damning, salient point to make. How is it even possible to be so disconnected from what you're writing that you don't realize how stupid this sounds? Apparently, his ability to reason is on par with a kid in elementary school: "I know you are but what am I?"

Trudging through the rest, I found that at least half of the comments were typical mindless drone bullshit; the most common defense of Fox News by far was to try to equate the bias of organizations like MSNBC with the outright lies of Fox News (which were clearly covered in the very article they were spamming). The mixture of "bias is evil!", tu quoque, and outright lying in that kind of attack is rather insidious. It's unfortunate that more of the population in the US doesn't have enough of a grounding in logic to understand just how irrational it is.

I am glad that at least a few organizations are coming out against Fox News, though. The article makes a good point: the more Fox News is visibly attacked as a credible news organization, the more popular perception of it will shift negatively. Even if the very large minority (30% claim it's the most trustworthy news source according to this poll) of the US that rabidly follows its message continues to do so, simply swaying independents away from it would be a major victory. Hopefully, as Fox News continues to be discredited, more people will learn about the irrational, subversive reasoning it and its followers tend to employ.
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

If Fixed Noise wants to be the Alamo, I say it's high time everyone start playing Deguello! I'm seeing random people at the hardware store getting pissed at Fox for their now very obvious attempts at fomenting assassinations and terrorism.
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Darth Wong »

Xusilak wrote:This quote from the comments section really belies a typical conservative drone's attempts to sound intelligent:
I'm sorry to point this out to you but I think you might have cut and pasted from another article you surely must be writing on the current administration. I've taken the liberty to make the corrections for you. The Obama administration is not a presidential administration. It now comprises all of the elements of a political campaign, including organizing, explicitly partisan advocacy, (highly dubious) opposition research, War Room-style attack communications and even fundraising for the democratic party (lower case for emphasis) and the "progressive" party (lower case and quotes for emphasis).
This imbecile actually thinks that a NEWS ORGANIZATION and a POLITICAL PARTY should be held to similar standards of impartiality? Is he on drugs, is he so monumentally stupid that he has no idea what a news organization is supposed to do, or is he just a pathological liar who will say anything to defend his tribal leaders' contemptible behaviour?
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Ariphaos »

Give him credit, if Fox News held itself to the same standard of impartiality that the Obama administration did, we'd be mostly fine with them.
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Kodiak »

So I forwarded a link to this article to a friend of my wife who has numerous times defended Faux News as being "fair and balanced" and "only interested in the truth". Any time I tried to tell her that their coverage was full of lies she kept hammering home "Prove it! Prove it's lies". I had posted this on my facebook status as:

"I believe Fox News is a threat to America"

Her: "its only a "threat" if you see standing up for wrongdoing a "threat""

Me: I think you meant to say 'standing up against wrongdoing'. Don't you think it's dangerous to have a news network that intentionally misinforms its audience and introduces a partisan bias into nearly ALL their news coverage?

Her: [My name deleted], you already know my opinion about fox news....the article was interesting...as interesting for me as you would be in an anti-Obama article! I would appreciate it if you didn't send more.

Me: I will respect your wishes. I didn't mean to offend, but since I know you are interested in politics/news/media like I am I thought you might find it interesting- since this article has pertinent facts. Feel free to send me any articles you find interesting on the web. I like to know what's going on beyond my typical "comfort zone".

My wife was totally floored that her friend (since age 13) simply stuck her fingers in her ears and said "nah nah, I'm not listening." For my expectations it was pretty much par for the course. People who have never had their worldview challenged are typically like this. My wife's friend grew up in a small town, then moved to a small town in another state, did 2 years in Beauty School, got married, moved to the South, had 3 kids, and is now stay-at-home while her husband is a Captain-Dentist in the USAF. I was not very surprised by her reaction. I'm sure there are many similar experiences out there with conservatives ignoring facts in favor of "their gut".
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by General Zod »

Kodiak wrote:So I forwarded a link to this article to a friend of my wife who has numerous times defended Faux News as being "fair and balanced" and "only interested in the truth". Any time I tried to tell her that their coverage was full of lies she kept hammering home "Prove it! Prove it's lies".
Shower her this video. It's perfect in that it shows several instances of Fox Noise flip-flopping their positions on things depending on who's in charge. :)
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Darth Wong »

It doesn't help that churchgoers are taught from childhood that the Devil "wears a pleasing face" and has "a pleasing tongue". In other words, they're taught to believe that if someone is charismatic and has really convincing arguments, then he is dangerous and you should ignore him.

That's why argument has no effect on people like this. They're taught that the more convincing your arguments are, the more deceptive and evil they must be. The best way to get through to people like this is to seem like an earnest moron, which is not exactly easy to do, and even if you succeed, there's no guarantee they'll listen.

At the end of the day, the only way people like this will change is if their own curiosity is piqued through life experience or constant exposure to competing attitudes, which it doesn't sound like she's ever had.
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Kodiak
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Kodiak »

Darth Wong wrote:It doesn't help that churchgoers are taught from childhood that the Devil "wears a pleasing face" and has "a pleasing tongue". In other words, they're taught to believe that if someone is charismatic and has really convincing arguments, then he is dangerous and you should ignore him.
You know, I never thought about it that way. I've heard the argument all growing up, but I know enough to realize that good people can actually be good people. I remember hearing over and over "I don't trust Obama- he's got an answer for everything." :wtf:
That's why argument has no effect on people like this. They're taught that the more convincing your arguments are, the more deceptive and evil they must be. The best way to get through to people like this is to seem like an earnest moron, which is not exactly easy to do, and even if you succeed, there's no guarantee they'll listen.
I can honestly say I have no idea what being an "earnest moron" would look like. I plan on never finding out.
At the end of the day, the only way people like this will change is if their own curiosity is piqued through life experience or constant exposure to competing attitudes, which it doesn't sound like she's ever had.
My wife has actually been dealing with this and it's been hard. From her hometown "crew" of friends she's one of the very few that actually left town, got an education, and gained some world perspective. Now whenever she goes home or talks with them she says to me "was I such an ignorant redneck when you met me?" to which I reply "Do you remember when I had to explain to you the difference between Koreans, Japanese, and Vietnamese?" :lol:
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Darth Wong
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Re: Media Matters- Fox News is officially not news

Post by Darth Wong »

Kodiak wrote:You know, I never thought about it that way. I've heard the argument all growing up, but I know enough to realize that good people can actually be good people. I remember hearing over and over "I don't trust Obama- he's got an answer for everything." :wtf:
You never thought about it that way because you heard it so many times growing up. People are often loathe to analyze the things they heard a million times growing up.
That's why argument has no effect on people like this. They're taught that the more convincing your arguments are, the more deceptive and evil they must be. The best way to get through to people like this is to seem like an earnest moron, which is not exactly easy to do, and even if you succeed, there's no guarantee they'll listen.
I can honestly say I have no idea what being an "earnest moron" would look like. I plan on never finding out.
Think "Forrest Gump".
At the end of the day, the only way people like this will change is if their own curiosity is piqued through life experience or constant exposure to competing attitudes, which it doesn't sound like she's ever had.
My wife has actually been dealing with this and it's been hard. From her hometown "crew" of friends she's one of the very few that actually left town, got an education, and gained some world perspective. Now whenever she goes home or talks with them she says to me "was I such an ignorant redneck when you met me?" to which I reply "Do you remember when I had to explain to you the difference between Koreans, Japanese, and Vietnamese?" :lol:
The problem with ignorance is that it cannot recognize itself, for obvious reasons.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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