People can't afford $300 jeans

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People can't afford $300 jeans

Post by Oscar Wilde »

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/fashi ... &ref=style
nytimes wrote: THE $300 pair of designer jeans is now, courtesy of the recession, the $200 pair of designer jeans.


“It was all just a fad,” said Jeff Rudes, a founder of the hot-denim-label-du-jour J Brand Jeans and an astute observer of the suspiciously inflated prices of fashion’s most eternally reinvented staple. Like any commodity that becomes overpriced, there eventually comes a market correction. And denim’s day of reckoning was long overdue.

“The floors at most of the major stores were so overassorted that they almost looked like Loehmann’s,” Mr. Rudes said. “They were just cramming jeans onto the racks.”

The introduction of $300 jeans — perhaps even more than $1,000 coin purses and $500 plastic sunglasses — marked the moment when customers really began to question the prices they were seeing in department stores. Cotton dungarees for the price of an iPod was a stretch so extreme that retailers had to come up with a whole new term to suggest that the new jeans were different from the $100 jeans they used to sell in the 1990s.

So, early in the decade designer jeans became “premium” jeans — as in, you had to pay a premium to wear them: $340 for Acne jeans, $350 for Ksubi jeans, $359 for True Religion jeans, $395 for Notify jeans, $580 for Dior jeans and so on. Before the recession, premium denim was one of the fastest growing categories of the apparel business, and there seemed to be no limit to what customers would pay for the latest label, fit, finish, wash or whatever Paris Hilton wore.

But the denim bubble has burst, and only a handful of such extravagantly priced jeans remain at the jeans bar — labels like PRPS and 45rpm, which, in tacit acknowledgment of the decline of the premium business, are now more often referred to as “artisanal” jeans. Meanwhile, the sweet spot for designer jeans has relocated to a neighborhood just below $200, even though the styles do not look substantially different from the $300 jeans that were on the sales floors of Barneys New York and Bloomingdale’s only two years ago.

“The key price is under $200 now,” said Eric Jennings, the men’s fashion director at Saks Fifth Avenue. “The superexpensive stuff is not performing as well.”

Despite all this tumult, designer denim is still one of the few bright spots of the apparel industry. Annual sales of all women’s jeans were actually up 5 percent over last year to $8.2 billion through August, though average prices were down 1 percent, according to the research firm NPD — the pricing shift is reflective of a broader reset taking place in luxury stores.

During the modern gilded age, the spiraling prices of designer clothes had more to do with driving profits than the actual design or construction of a garment. Designers found they could charge a lot for the perception of prestige. Dresses and suits and handbags were priced like cars, and consumers didn’t blink. But with jeans, it just felt more obvious that some kind of game was being played; the basic elements, after all, had not changed substantially in decades: five pockets, cotton, some rivets.

Now designers are facing pressure from stores and from their competitors to rethink prices, in many cases resulting in less expensive jeans or more styles at the lower end of each designer’s range. It has not gone unnoticed by executives behind the great denim rush of 2005 that even mainstream retailers like Gap and J. Crew have caught on to the appeal of Japanese denim, whisker treatments and fading details, and that they are now produce comparable premium-look jeans that cost around $60. Banana Republic has a new denim line coming in January.

“Charging $600 for jeans for no reason at all — those days are over,” said You Nguyen, the senior vice president of women’s merchandising and design for Levi Strauss & Company.

Diesel, the Italian jeans company that pioneered the three-figure category, used to produce only two styles at its lowest price of $150 for men, $160 for women. This season there are 10, said Renzo Rosso, the label’s founder, “because the market demanded more product at this level.”

Rock & Republic, another popular label, introduced a Recession Collection this spring with styles under $140, about $40 less than before. Ksubi, the maker of $280 skintight jeans, is now producing less expensive styles for stores in the United Kingdom and Australia. And Citizens of Humanity found it could entice retailers with a new style for $148, about 10 percent lower than its previous entry point.

“Below that, it is no longer premium,” said Gary Freedman, the company’s chief operating officer.
But that distinction seemed arbitrary before, and the broad pricing retrenchment suggests that there was nothing so premium about last year’s jeans except the profits. The retail price of most designer jeans is calculated by multiplying the wholesale cost by 2.2. A pair of jeans that costs $158 at Saks, for example, was sold to the store for $72.

While that is a typical markup for designer fashion, the actual costs of producing jeans are much lower, and so for many years it was considered a lucrative field for start-ups. In the early part of the decade, there were more than 40 start-ups. But many of those labels, once the next big things, are but memories. Remember Blue Cult? Antique Denim? Paper Denim & Cloth?

“Five years ago, it was easy to start a jeans company,” said Scott Morrison, one of the original founders of Paper Denim & Cloth in 1999 and later a founder of Earnest Sewn, who joined Evisu in May as its chief executive. “You basically have a market that is the fastest growing segment in the apparel business, and stores are overbuying because of it.”

Evisu is a good example. The brand, when it started in Japan in 1991, was so exclusive that only a few dozen pairs of jeans, priced at $600, were produced each week, each with a hand-painted seagull logo on the back pocket. But the label’s popularity soon led to a global licensing agreement to produce runway collections in Italy and increasingly baggy and flashy street-wear styles that, while generating $30 million in sales, devalued the brand to the point that no designer store would touch it.

Mr. Morrison said the label has been losing money for the last four years. His strategy is to revive Evisu by starting over, with a handful of clean, unadulterated styles that will be sold at Barneys beginning in November. Many of them under $200.

But prices are not the only thing that has changed since the recession. The jeans business is just not the same without the swagger.

“You have the underpinnings of a disaster if people can’t turn this around,” Mr. Morrison said.

Of course, people will turn denim around and around and around, lately as skinny jeans or boyfriend jeans and even more recently as jeans so skinny they are called “jeggings.”

Mr. Rosso of Diesel also sensed it is time for a change. Last week, he met with his team of designers to give them a challenge, he said, to reinvent denim in a “younger way, a fresher way.”

“It’s been too many years that we’ve just looked at wash, and the time is now to make an evolution,” Mr. Rosso said. “Denim is the only fabric you really can transform.”
Who the shitting fuck buys jeans that cost hundreds of dollars a pair and why?

Certainly presents insight onto why the American economy is so fucked.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

Post by Vympel »

Fixed your quotetag.

A girl I used to work with at my old firm once told me she bought a pair of 900 dollar (Australian) Diesel jeans. I went absolutely fucking mental and asked her why the hell she was willing to pay that much for something that was in reality worth much less than 100. She said "because they were Diesel!" over and over and over again ...
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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I buy my jeans for $1.50 at the Goodwill store. 'Nuff said.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Three hundred dollars? If I'm gonna pay that much for something, it better let me play Quake on it or fire six shotgun blasts as quick as I can work its pump. Jeans? Fuck that noise, I'll go to Marshall's; I'll bet the $2 jeans will fit just as tight and make my ass look just as bangin' as the $200 ones!
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Three hundred dollars? If I'm gonna pay that much for something, it better let me play Quake on it or fire six shotgun blasts as quick as I can work its pump. Jeans? Fuck that noise, I'll go to Marshall's; I'll bet the $2 jeans will fit just as tight and make my ass look just as bangin' as the $200 ones!
Agreed. If i'm paying 300 big ones for something, it'd better have some god damned functionality. Unfortunately, during the U.S.'s "long boom," (in which the economy kept growing, but all the wealth went to the top ten percent of society) shameless flaunting of one's wealth that would have been considered distasteful or even shameful was popularized. Suddenly it was the "in" thing to do to needlessly spend your money on overly-expensive shit you didn't need. There were people in my high school who were bragging about how much their cloths cost, or that they were expensive designer-brand shit. Can anyone here imagine that kind of shit flying with previous generations? Anyone at all?
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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I saw it in 1970's with affluent kids in my school district. Just as distasteful then as now.

The impulse to show off isn't limited to any particular generation. Historically, there have been frequent instances of the very wealthy showing off.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Darksider wrote:There were people in my high school who were bragging about how much their cloths cost, or that they were expensive designer-brand shit. Can anyone here imagine that kind of shit flying with previous generations? Anyone at all?
Back in my middle school days which was almost a generation ago, anyone wearing Levi's jeans without a red tab was beaten up on a daily basis. It was also the middle of the Air Jordan sneaker craze where everyone was buying and bragging about their latest $200 shoes.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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You know, I bought a pair of $70 dollar jeans about two years ago. I only wear them when I go out and "dress up" because they're my nice jeans, so to speak; I have others, Levi's that are about $30 and last for years, that I wear for hunting, hiking, manual labor, etc. The thing is, even with the caveat that they were supposed to be nice clothes, I thought that was $70 a bit crazy. The idea of jeans over $100, much less $200 or $300 is mind boggling.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Vympel wrote:Fixed your quotetag.

A girl I used to work with at my old firm once told me she bought a pair of 900 dollar (Australian) Diesel jeans. I went absolutely fucking mental and asked her why the hell she was willing to pay that much for something that was in reality worth much less than 100. She said "because they were Diesel!" over and over and over again ...
Jeans outside the US have a habit of being extraordinarily expensive. A 50 USD jeans in the US could very likely cost >SGD$100 in Singapore.
The Spartan wrote:You know, I bought a pair of $70 dollar jeans about two years ago. I only wear them when I go out and "dress up" because they're my nice jeans, so to speak; I have others, Levi's that are about $30 and last for years, that I wear for hunting, hiking, manual labor, etc. The thing is, even with the caveat that they were supposed to be nice clothes, I thought that was $70 a bit crazy. The idea of jeans over $100, much less $200 or $300 is mind boggling.
Actually, if I recall, boutique shops such as AXS sell jeans over a hundred and there are a number of them that do so.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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The ones I bought were actually J. Crew.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Objectively, I've probably spent more money on stupider things in my life.

Probably.

Objectively.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Master of Ossus wrote:Objectively, I've probably spent more money on stupider things in my life.

Probably.

Objectively.
Stupidier than paying 500 dollars for jeans that aren't any higher quality than 40 dollar ones, with the remaining 460 dollars going to the right to allowing a douchebag to put his name on your ass?

Well, I suppose their are always the 200 dollar Nikes that were dirt cheap by a Cambodian preteen that fall apart if you breath on them too hard.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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I dont spend more than 20 bucks for a pair of jeans, period. Of course, I'm cheap like that as I have never given a shit if something was 'designer' or not, Rustler worked just fine for me.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Gil Hamilton wrote:Stupidier than paying 500 dollars for jeans that aren't any higher quality than 40 dollar ones, with the remaining 460 dollars going to the right to allowing a douchebag to put his name on your ass?
People do that sort of thing all the time. Budweiser sells three grades of beers from the same barrels that retail for over a 5x difference in price, for example (Budweiser is the "middle grade" brand).
Well, I suppose their are always the 200 dollar Nikes that were dirt cheap by a Cambodian preteen that fall apart if you breath on them too hard.
Not really what I was referring to, but it's possible to spend truly extravagant amounts of money on luxury goods. I once saw a commercial for a watch that literally advertised the product by noting that it was impossible to take your Mercedes into the boardroom with you.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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I skimp on clothes. I wear them for ages, add to my stockpile only a few times a year (one or two items at a time) and just mix and match. I also never buy designer clothes. The only designer clothes I have are my suits (you've got to have a decent suit when you're a lawyer) and a few presents I get every year from others. Otherwise it's strictly El Cheapo.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Master of Ossus wrote:People do that sort of thing all the time. Budweiser sells three grades of beers from the same barrels that retail for over a 5x difference in price, for example (Budweiser is the "middle grade" brand).
Knew that one, though if you are drinking Budweiser I have little sympathy for you. I find the trend even more telling that bottled water is huge business when most bottled water is from municipal water supplies (in other words, they are selling people tap water).

The bottled water is probably the stupidest, but I still think it's pretty damn stupid to pay 5x as much to walk around with Christian Dior's name on your butt.
Not really what I was referring to, but it's possible to spend truly extravagant amounts of money on luxury goods. I once saw a commercial for a watch that literally advertised the product by noting that it was impossible to take your Mercedes into the boardroom with you.
I'm sure such products allow the people to get it up, but I think if I had that much disposable income I would put it all in a Scrooge McDuck money tower minus the cost of a 60 dollar watch. That way I could keep time with the same precision while swimming like a dolphin through a sea of 18th/19th century faces.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Sadly there will always be a market for 300 dollar jeans and 1000 dollar womens handbags. The people who buy them do so to show how rich they are. They are not seeking superior quality here. If you had some coconuts and a good branding campaign you could sell them for 500 dollar a piece too. There will always be rich people willing to waste money just to impress others.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Levi's are a bit more expensive here. Generally marked at about $75-95 a pair, but they're a little bit cheaper than MSRP at the department stores like Sears and the Bay (I picked up a pair marked at $75 for $55 on sale last time). I prefer to buy the Levi's because they last so long and they fit so right, but I've bought a bunch of $20 jeans at Walmart (the B.U.M. Equipment ones) for work. They don't fit right, and I don't think they're going to last very long, but it's not a big loss.

I do have a few pairs of more expensive jeans, a pair of Calvin Kleins I got as a gift, a pair of Gap jeans I got on sale, some Ralph Laurens, but those jeans are worn so rarely that they last a long time too. And you've got to have some nice clothes to wear out, even if you don't want to show off, it's refreshing to just wear something nice once in a while, something you don't wear every day. And half of them were gifts anyway, so I've saved there (although I would have bought more if I hadn't gotten the gifts).

I remember when I went to Italy, one kid spent more on one pair of jeans than I spent on food, clothes, and souvenirs, total. A pair of Pradas. When I asked him why he thought it was a good idea to spend so much, he mentioned that he already owned 26 pairs of jeans (and almost all of them were absurdly expensive already). When you can wear a different pair of pants every day and not repeat for a month, you know you've gotten excessive.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Yes, that's even the premise of MTV's "My Super Sweet Sixteen" AKA the show that if you strapped a die hard conservative to a chair, Clockwork Orange style, and forced him to watch an entire season of it end to end, you'd end up with either a suicidal or Che Guevera.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Vympel wrote:I skimp on clothes. I wear them for ages, add to my stockpile only a few times a year (one or two items at a time) and just mix and match. I also never buy designer clothes. The only designer clothes I have are my suits (you've got to have a decent suit when you're a lawyer) and a few presents I get every year from others. Otherwise it's strictly El Cheapo.
The vast majority of my clothes are from Target and even then I pick them up on special. Like a pair of nice chinos for work for $6.00. The only time I'll spend real money on clothes is every 3-4 years when I need to get something for a special event. And then I recycle that outfit over and over and over until it needs to be replaced.

Meanwhile I know people who are really struggling for money but somehow feel that if they don't spend $200 on a new Armani belt or some such waste of fucking cash, that their lives don't amount to anything.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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You can't get any sort of jeans for less than €40 or so here, except maybe sometimes on sale and then there usually aren't any sizes left. Unsurprisingly, the jeans I wear (always black) are of the cheapest variety I can find and I always buy the same specific type from the same place since it's a good fit and one of the staple products at that store.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Levi jeans here tend to be around €80 or so and seem to have a better rep in europe than they do in america. So what I've done is I went in and tried a pair of 501s then bought the size I needed (34x34 if anyone cares :P) of ebay for like €30 shipped. I've bought my 4 latest jeans like that now. I should probably try some other brand now too...
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

Post by Dahak »

I don't buy jeans, or wear them that often, but when it comes down to clothes, I spend rather more than less on clothes. Especially my suits, dress shirts, and shoes. So if I felt like it, I wouldn't bat an eye for a mere 300$ for a jeans.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

Post by Bounty »

It's your basic conspicuous consumption.

You can easily justify spending a lot of money on jeans if you know you are getting an objective benefit in return. Someone can happily spend $100 for a pair (actually, it seems like US prices and European prices don't match up; their are less bargain brands, but a wide selection of "brand name" merchandise at the sub-$100 price point), but that's because they know they will last a good few years of daily use without starting to look shabby. In the long run, they save money.

Anything above that, where people buy an item not because of the item itself but because of its monetary value, is you bog-standard peacock behavior. It's older than dirt and unfortunately it's never going to go away, because it's an integral part of how humans function in groups. We like to display success, and the easiest way to do that is to show we make bucketloads of money, even if we don't. Why people are shocked at the existence of concept I'll never understand.

Something that does surprise me is that more brands haven't jumped on the recession bandwagon. If the margins are that big, premium brands can make some good money selling lines at a cheaper pricepoint without diluting their brand too much, with free appeal due to the line being "crisis conscious" or somesuch marketing spin.
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Re: People can't afford $300 jeans

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Gil Hamilton wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:People do that sort of thing all the time. Budweiser sells three grades of beers from the same barrels that retail for over a 5x difference in price, for example (Budweiser is the "middle grade" brand).
Knew that one, though if you are drinking Budweiser I have little sympathy for you. I find the trend even more telling that bottled water is huge business when most bottled water is from municipal water supplies (in other words, they are selling people tap water).

The bottled water is probably the stupidest, but I still think it's pretty damn stupid to pay 5x as much to walk around with Christian Dior's name on your butt.
I think in Europe to call water mineral water you actually have to get it from some kind of spring and there are various conditions. That only makes it marginally less silly though. I only ever buy bottled water if I'm out and thirsty and forgot to bring/fill my sports water bottle.
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