SGU Team fires back at critics

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SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

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So I walked into the office the other day to discover a glowering Carl seated at his desk. Now, usually, it takes him the better part of the morning to work his way up to a full glower but, on this particular day, Carl was already there the second I walked in. When I asked him what was up, he informed me that he might have to start boycotting my blog because, in his opinion, some of the fan comments had crossed the line. While he is all for constructive criticism, he apparently takes exception when fans start labeling characters “whores” or suggesting the producers should consider killing off certain characters, especially when its common knowledge that the actors playing said characters check out the blog. And not only the actors, but their immediate family as well.

Sadly, the negativity has also taken its toll on one-time regular Sherry, proud mother of actor Brian J. Smith, who, surprised and saddened by some of the hostility here, has elected to no longer read the blog. Also, after several months of connecting with fandom online, Brian is stepping away from his popular twitter account for much the same reason. Some of the very same fans who he was kind enough to open up a dialogue with in the run-up to the premiere started leaving him nasty comments as though he was responsible for the show’s creative direction. I imagine that if Robert Carlyle was on twitter, these same morons would be berating him for being mean to his fellow Destiny crew members.

I find myself in an awkward position. On the one hand, I want to keep this blog’s comment section open to differing opinions and allow fans to express their honest feelings about the show; on the other hand, I don’t want it to turn into a battleground where fans can feel free to insult the production, its personal, and each other. I have to walk a very fine line and, sometimes, I will let a comment through that may be deemed borderline in order to respond to a “distilled” representation of an oft-repeated opinion.

For the most part, I don’t think it’s gotten all that bad here (I’ve read worse on other forums and even moderated worse). Still, I’d suggest that anyone looking to post a critical comment consider their wording – not their opinion, but the way in which they express said opinion. Sometimes, you can be offensive without even meaning to. And, when this happens, rather making a good point, you risk alienating the very people you’re trying to convince.

For example, amidst all of the ongoing discussion about the Scott-James scene in the pilot, the Scott-Chloe scene in Light, and the burgeoning relationship between Scott and Chloe, someone here referred to Chloe as a whore. Now never mind the fact that we have only seen the Chloe character be intimate with all of one other character so far, and this only after bonding with him following the loss of her father and as both faced what seemed like certain death and thus took advantage of the only opportunity they would have to be together. So how do you think someone on the production would react to such a comment? Would they stop and consider the message at the heart of it? Unfortunately, no. They dismiss the poster and her opinion as extreme and move on.

Also realize – if it hasn’t become apparent by now – that we love our cast and are very protective of them. Trust me when I say that there’s no better way to guarantee a character’s long and fruitful stay on a show than to insist we get rid of them. Keep in mind that the simple fact others in your particular online niche share an opinion doesn’t make it the prevailing attitude among the show’s viewers.

In order to head off any potential frustration on the part of those who are unhappy with SGU’s direction, allow me to make a few points that may save you time and effort in any attempt to change some of the creative choices we’ve made.

SGU is NOT SG-1 or Atlantis. It’s a different show in terms of tone and characters. If you’re expecting flawless people, square-jawed heroes, and stories that set up and deliver all the answers over the course of a forty-five minute episode, you WILL be disappointed. And DON’T expect that to change. If you don’t like the character interactions, romance, and open-ended story elements introduced to date, you’re in for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong haul because that’s our show.

Unlike the more kid-friendly SG-1 and Atlantis with its wholesale slaughters of enemy combatants, tortures, stabbings, and occasional live burnings, Universe will touch on the heinous topic of physically intimacy. These “sex scenes”, which amounted to approximately 1 whole minute of the 270 minutes aired to date, engendered a fair amount of controversy. And that’s fine. I don’t mind continuing to read and approve your comments on the subject so long as you don’t mind knowing that nothing will change in this respect and that if you were offended by that broom closet scene in Air I, I guarantee you’ll be clawing your eyes out of your skull given what we have in store later this season. Also, while I can understand why some may have had a problem with that broom-closet scene in the premiere given that it did come as a surprise to many, I can’t muster up much empathy or understanding for those complaining about the Scott-Chloe scene in Light. Again, if it’s a matter of not enjoying shows that focus on the occasional romance between characters, then that’s unfortunate – because that’s the type of show you’re watching. If, on the other hand, it’s an innate response to the very notion of intimacy no matter how modest the scene, then I’d suggest a deep-rooted personal issue that would be best dealt with somewhere other than this blog.

Finally, some words of advice – words of advice not so much for those of you here but those leaving comments on other forums and websites (if you would be kind enough to pass the message along): STOP MAKING IDIOT COMMENTS. Note I didn’t say idiotic comments because that would imply that the lion’s share of the idiocy lies with the comment itself rather than the commentator. No, I mean: STOP MAKING IDIOT COMMENTS.

For example, say you have a problem with the James scene in Darkness in which she threatens Riley and Eli after they try spying on her with the kino. You can go ahead and make an argument for the scene being sexist (although I’d argue that there’s a difference between the scene being sexist and the characters in the scene acting inappropriately, especially given that a clearly disappointed Young admonishes both men), but if, in the body of your comment or any subsequent comment, you refer to the James character as Lieutenant Rack or McBoobs, then you’re a hypocrite who has successfully undermined their argument by demonstrating you can’t be taken seriously. Also, you’re an idiot.

If you want to express your opinion and argue why you feel that scene was sexist, then by all means do so. If, however, you dismiss anyone expressing a differing opinion, despite the fact that they go through the trouble of presenting a cogent counter- argument, simply on the basis of their sex (“Oh, look ! Another privilege man trying to tell us woman that something is not sexist ! Wow, what a surprise ! What a shock ! What a revelation !” – compliments of one grade school level narow-minded poster here: xxx), why bother posting on a public forum. Rather, pick a private sub-forum where everyone is guaranteed to agree with your opinion or, better yet, imagine you live in a wonderful world where everyone thinks you’re brilliant and sees eye to eye with you on everything.

Hmmm. A lot less ranty than I’d expected two days ago when I had originally planned to tackle this topic. Still, ranty enough to ensure some thin-skinned faction of fandom will be whining and stomping its feet in response.
I think that instead of critics I might have said 'trolls', because there's apparently a LOT of trolling of official SGU sources going on. Its interesting to see his mindset, though. Click the link, there's a cool behind-the-scenes vid from 'Water'

Also, Julia Benson answers charges of sexism and being called Lt. Hooters. Sadly, the comments section undermines her points.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Bilbo »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Link
SGU is NOT SG-1 or Atlantis. It’s a different show in terms of tone and characters.

No this is not SG-1 or SGA. This is a completely unrelated show that is merely calling itself a SG show to try and grab an instant audience and is now getting angry at said crowd for comments. Yes a lot of the comments are wrong and mean. On the other hand comments are being made that are fair. This is not really Stargate. This is nothing more than whoring off an existing market to grab fans, which is okay, but then is taking the show in a completely different direction, ie Pissing on said fans.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

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I hear there are these things called "spin-offs" that happen in TV sometimes that may do radical things such as explore an established universe while altering tone and characters.

These guys have been saying from day fucking one that the show is nothing like SG-1 tonally. Why are you acting so butt-hurt? They warned you in advance that you wouldn't like their show.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Bilbo »

Anguirus wrote:I hear there are these things called "spin-offs" that happen in TV sometimes that may do radical things such as explore an established universe while altering tone and characters.

These guys have been saying from day fucking one that the show is nothing like SG-1 tonally. Why are you acting so butt-hurt? They warned you in advance that you wouldn't like their show.
I also hear that most of the really sucessful ones stay pretty damn true to the origional show, the more they spin away the less popular they are.

I am merely pointing out where most of the anger is coming from that is aimed at the show. The only reason this show has Stargate in the title is to save time on backstory and try to grab an established audience.

Hell, the fucking tone of Stargate was what made half of the show.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

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Not worth the effort.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Darksider »

Not having the SG "feel" would have been a decent criticism for the first couple of episodes, god knows I leveled it at them often enough, but the most recent episode really captured the feel of SG-1s early seasons, with them trying to find a way to deal with a truly mysterious alien creature. It almost felt like I was watching that one with the crystals or the one with the nanites taking over the base.

Anyways, it looks like there's going to be some more action in the most recent one, since the preview looked like it had the destiny firing weapons of some sort. The first couple of episodes were crap, and really turned me off to the series, but it looks like it's finally starting to hit its stride.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by ThomasP »

How much more can you do with the original "tone" of Stargate without turning it into Dragonball Z?

I mean I love the whole sequence of Bad Guy --> Find Superweapon to Kill Bad Guy --> New Stronger Bad Guy as much as anybody, but after 10 seasons of SG-1 and 5 seasons of Atlantis, what's left in that formula?

At least these guys had the sense not to just transplant SG-1 into a new remote setting, cut off from everyone back home, and then treat it just like SG-1 - unlike a certain other franchise.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Starglider »

Preserving the 'tone' is not important, in fact it is actively bad. The important thing about the IP is the universe. Different shows can and should give a different view of that universe, e.g. DS9 is a completely different view to TNG. SG:U has done perfectly well at matching existing canon, so far. The acting and effects are fine (not amazing, but of a reasonable professional standard). Its main problems are all in the writing, but they are not problems because 'it's not like SG-1', they're things that would be a turn-off in any show. For example the sex scene would be fine if it occurred late in the season, once the characters had developed a relationship, but having it so early felt like 'oh wow look how dark and edgy we are, just like Torchwood lol' rather than a natural part of the story. Seriously, who watches their father die and then decides to deal with their grief via casual sex with a random stranger?
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Zac Naloen »

Am I the only person that lives in a world where some people have sex as the act of establishing the relationship?


It sometimes seems like it.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

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Zac Naloen wrote:Am I the only person that lives in a world where some people have sex as the act of establishing the relationship?


It sometimes seems like it.
Not at all. But looking at it with the cynicism of someone who has watched television for years and when you throw a sex scene into the first 10 minutes of a first episode and all you get is a feeling that the show is going for the "shock and awe" effect.

I mean you can practically see the writer sitting in a room saying, "how can we came sure everyone knows this isnt their Dad's Stargate. I know!! We can have two people the audience doesnt know at all fucking practically in the opening scene!! Brilliant!!"
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Zac Naloen »

Bilbo wrote:
Zac Naloen wrote:Am I the only person that lives in a world where some people have sex as the act of establishing the relationship?


It sometimes seems like it.
Not at all. But looking at it with the cynicism of someone who has watched television for years and when you throw a sex scene into the first 10 minutes of a first episode and all you get is a feeling that the show is going for the "shock and awe" effect.

I mean you can practically see the writer sitting in a room saying, "how can we came sure everyone knows this isnt their Dad's Stargate. I know!! We can have two people the audience doesnt know at all fucking practically in the opening scene!! Brilliant!!"

From what I understand the writers are trying to make a show about real people who react to fantastic situations in the way that real people would do.


As far as I am concerned they've done exactly that.

Two people with a mutual attraction had sex in a broom closet. Happens all the time.

Two people with time to contemplate their coming deaths, or at least the prospect of never seeing each other again, decided to have sex.

I was faced with a decision like that at the end of a Holiday recently (I wasn't single so I didn't go through with it, but there was mutual attraction and she put the offer on the plate)

I don't see what's edgy and dark about that. It's natural human behaviour.

In my opinion, sometimes people are too cynical for their own good,

Forget about the shock and awe tactics of TV execs to get ratings from certain demographics and enjoy the drama and action sequences (which are due to come) for what they are. Well made, well crafted TV. In my opinion.

Just go along for the ride, TV is much more enjoyable when you do that.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by TheLostVikings »

Bilbo wrote:
Zac Naloen wrote:Am I the only person that lives in a world where some people have sex as the act of establishing the relationship?


It sometimes seems like it.
Not at all. But looking at it with the cynicism of someone who has watched television for years and when you throw a sex scene into the first 10 minutes of a first episode and all you get is a feeling that the show is going for the "shock and awe" effect.

I mean you can practically see the writer sitting in a room saying, "how can we came sure everyone knows this isn't their Dad's Stargate. I know!! We can have two people the audience doesn't know at all fucking practically in the opening scene!! Brilliant!!"
Or on the flip side, us people who doesn't live in a horribly oppressed puritanical society won't even bat an eyelash at these supposedly "controversial" scenes. It's not that many years ago that several box office PG films had boobs or even full frontal nudity in them, and no parents spazzed over that back then.

The only reason scenes like these could now possibly be considered "shocking" is because hysterical puritans have spent the last decades lobbying their collective asses off in order to remove anything they considered "suggestive" from being shown on film. ("Someone please think of the children") Of course this is effectively a self fulfilling prophecy, as every time you completely remove all "shocking" scenes from film the bar for what is considered "shocking" is invariably lowered, and thus the whole circus starts anew until television is comically neutered.

On the other hand letting kids watch people getting the everliving shit beaten out of each other, or being filled with lead, is no problem. Because we all know any kind of intimacy is automatically much worse than violence. God forbid little Timmy would ever kiss a girl, better that he just beat them up instead... :banghead:
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by NecronLord »

Bilbo wrote:The only reason this show has Stargate in the title is to save time on backstory and try to grab an established audience.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Rommie2006 »

Yes, SGU is radically different from SG-1 and SGA. I just wonder why they shouldn't relabel it as Voyager Destiny: Stargates, apart from the fact that they get to capitalize on the Stargate franchise by associating themselves with it.

Personally, I feel it would be better if they had not marketed themselves as STARGATE Universe. When I tuned in to SGU, I expected to see something Stargate-y. Where's the O'Neill and Mckay equivalent in SGU? Non-existent. The atmosphere of SGU is seriously all wrong and totally out of line with real SG franchises. Seriously, the SGU crew changed so much, including what it means to be a Stargate TV series. Instead what do I get? BSG and Voyager. Hey that's fine with me, I enjoyed BSG at times, but it's not what I was expecting. Imagine if Lucas' SW TV series was on peacful space explorations, you think the Warsies would take it well? For fuck sake, the producers shouldn't start complaining when people react negatively as the viewers were expecting stargate in the first place. Blame it on your stupid marketing strategy.

Had this show been introduced as Voyager Destiny: Stargates, I would not be so negative and critical about it. But there are expectations when you slap a Stargate title onto a franchise. And SGU move is too radical for me. This is not a Stargate franchise. This is a franchise that uses Stargate as a plot element. There IS a difference.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Stark »

Anguirus wrote:I hear there are these things called "spin-offs" that happen in TV sometimes that may do radical things such as explore an established universe while altering tone and characters.

These guys have been saying from day fucking one that the show is nothing like SG-1 tonally. Why are you acting so butt-hurt? They warned you in advance that you wouldn't like their show.
To be honest, SGU sounds like what the SG fans I knew expected Atlantis to be (and indeed what people expected Voyager to be). People often complain that spinoffs have no soul or different existence of their own, and SGU is at least an attempt to make a new kind of show.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

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I also hear that most of the really sucessful ones stay pretty damn true to the origional show, the more they spin away the less popular they are.
Such as? Star Trek: The Next Generation lasted more than twice as long as the original show and created an enormous number of new fans despite being blasted as "not real Star Trek" since before it even opened.

How similar is Frasier really to Cheers? Angel carries over a lot of characters from Buffy but the tone, setting, emphasis, and central metaphor of the show are all pretty different. I'm not a big TV watcher so I'm running low on examples here, but at least I'm providing a few.

SG:U isn't blowing me away, but I have enjoyed it so far (and I follow about 0.5 TV shows a year, so it has to be pretty good for me to put in the effort of watching at all). I understand many of the criticisms that have been leveled at the show, and I too am waiting to see if it will "hit its stride." But there are two criticisms that just make no sense to me whatsoever: "it's just like/trying to be like nBSG" (I really don't see that at all, except for a "dark tone," hard sci-fi trappings, and failing to pretend that there's no such thing as religion), and "it's not enough like SG-1" (they warned you in advance and shows don't need to be like SG-1 to be good).

Frankly, I wouldn't have watched a Stargate spinoff without a major break in the formula, as I really started to lose interest in the overall storyline of Earth becoming a major intergalactic power whilst still managing to conceal the Stargate and spin-off programs from the general public. I also got really sick of structuring seasons around searching for different MacGuffins.

One hope for me is that SG:U pays off the plot thread of Chloe's drunken mother (why hasn't she spilled the beans already?) and starts to explore consequences of Earth's influence on galactic affairs on its own society. Heck, by this point half the people in the US should know about the program anyway through blabbermouth contractors and politicians...what if the US population greets an official acknowledgement of the Stargate program with a collective shrug, but smaller countries that were more in the dark go apeshit? (Obviously this isn't going to be explored in great detail on the show, nor should it be, but using it as a background plot thread is possible.)
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Rommie2006 »

Stark wrote:
Anguirus wrote:I hear there are these things called "spin-offs" that happen in TV sometimes that may do radical things such as explore an established universe while altering tone and characters.

These guys have been saying from day fucking one that the show is nothing like SG-1 tonally. Why are you acting so butt-hurt? They warned you in advance that you wouldn't like their show.
To be honest, SGU sounds like what the SG fans I knew expected Atlantis to be (and indeed what people expected Voyager to be). People often complain that spinoffs have no soul or different existence of their own, and SGU is at least an attempt to make a new kind of show.
My gripe with SGU is the "over-realism"; I know many people will disagree. I admit the characters realism would be good IF a handful of people got plucked out from Earth without any Stargate knowledge. BUT, the people on the destiny were from Icarus base. I expect some kind of screening (from the US govt) that these people are competent and not I-wanna-go-home crybabies. I expect them to be trained for situations similar to this. I expect them to get a fucking grip on themselves.

You want realism? Why then is the newest civilian, Eli not freaking out like the rest? Maybe he is in his mind, but he doesn't show it like the rest. For fuck sake if an unemployed kid can keep his calms, why not the rest? To be realistic, I would expect Eli to be freaking out, along the lines like "I wanna go home... sob... I shouldn't have accepted this job... mommy." Instead, we see all the SG personnel repeating this mantra week after week. Even the fucking scientist, shouldn't they be excited that they are on an Ancient Starship?

Only Rush and Eli are responding up to my expectations. I do not need them to go all kiddish with glee, "yipee I'm on the Destiny", but seriously this whole "I wanna go home" thing is getting stale after six fucking episodes. It's a turn off.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by ThomasP »

I can't imagine why a large group of people stranded on the other side of the observable universe and with no real prospects of ever getting back to Earth would be upset about not being able to go home.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Agent Fisher »

Rommie2006 wrote:BUT, the people on the destiny were from Icarus base. I expect some kind of screening (from the US govt) that these people are competent and not I-wanna-go-home crybabies. I expect them to be trained for situations similar to this. I expect them to get a fucking grip on themselves.

Just because they were stationed at the base doesn't mean they're mean to go into the field. A few of them are cooks, a few of them are regular scientists like Felger or others. These aren't the Sam Carters, or even the Rodney McKay's, they're the scientists at the SGC that you see in the background.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Bilbo »

Opinion Question

Does SGU happen in the same universe as the SG-1 and SGA that we all watched on television? Or does it take place in the same reality as SGA Season 5 episode "Vegas"?

This is just personal opinion, not what you think the show producers intend.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Aeolus »

I have to agree with the blogger Chewie posted. On several sites I visit the comments are simply outrageous. Entire threads filled up with people screaming that Chloe is a whore and should die. Others shrieking about how horrible it was that they dared to have a romance in the show. Then you have the ones saying that they are turning SGU into a porno.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Vympel »

Two thoughts:-

* Thank THE GODS that SGU isn't like SG1 and SGA. Both shows are over, the format is tired, and they needed to end. I cannot comprehend why people want more of the same.

* Complaining about people calling the Big Breasted Lieutenant "Tits" or "Lieutenant Rack" or "Tits McGee" or whatever - the creators can fuck off in that regard. They're the ones who put her tits out there to oodle in what was clearly blatant fanboy pandering, as far as I'm concerned. Don't act all indignant and shocked now. The shots of her tits sticking out were just as sexist as the comments acknowledging them.
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Anguirus »

I'm not sure why the death penalty is being decreed for a slightly useless character who fucks another character. Granted, I really want to see Chloe do something interesting as well, but there's not much point this early in the show in pretending that she's anything other than a scared, traumatized twenty-something who would rather have sex with a hot guy than sit in her room and wait to die.

If anything Lt. Scott's irresponsible (i.e. radio off) man-whoring is more annoying, but I think he has potential to be an interesting commentary on the "hypocritical American Christian who can't keep it in his pants." The show's already shown us that his actions have had consequences but he still hasn't learned. So it could go somewhere interesting.

I also think there's a lot of potential in the Eli/Chloe relationship, whether it's sexual or non-. Would like to see where that develops.
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"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
-Tanasinn
You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country. -Battlehymn Republic
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Starglider
Miles Dyson
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Starglider »

Aeolus wrote: Entire threads filled up with people screaming that Chloe is a whore and should die.
By all means provide links if said threads are amusing.
Others shrieking about how horrible it was that they dared to have a romance in the show. Then you have the ones saying that they are turning SGU into a porno.
Probably angry young virgins pissed that the male lead got random sex with a hot girl without even trying, while they can't get a girl to look a them.

If the creators are at all surprised they can't have much experience with the Internet. No moderation, anonymous posting, pop culture subject => youtube comment quality levels.
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Vympel
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Re: SGU Team fires back at critics

Post by Vympel »

Greater Internet Total Fuckwad theory, I think Penny Arcade called it.

Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad.
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