Weapons export ban vote

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[R_H]
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Weapons export ban vote

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Weapons export ban vote to test emotions
A popular initiative calling for a ban on Swiss weapons exports has locked pacifists and business leaders in a conflict that will be resolved on polling day.

Swiss industry has mobilised a campaign against the ban, arguing that it would cost jobs while the "yes" camp says lives come before profits. The government has recommended that voters reject a ban.

On November 29, Switzerland will vote on the controversial and emotional subject for the third time since 1972. Two previous attempts to halt Swiss-made weapons exports have failed.

Unlike previous attempts, the current initiative only calls for a ban on military, not civilian, weapons and ammunition. It also stipulates that taxpayers' money should be spent on retraining the industry's workforce for more peaceful production.

The Group for a Switzerland without an Army – the body behind the initiative – is convinced that people would back an export ban this time around.
War and peace

"We don't want Swiss weapons to be involved in wars any longer and we don't want Switzerland to export weapons that are used in conflicts that the majority of the Swiss population are not in favour of," spokesman Tom Cassee told swissinfo.ch.

"It also contradicts our neutrality. When a country is not involved in foreign wars it should not export weapons to other countries," he added.

Switzerland's leading business and manufacturing organisations launched a coordinated campaign this week against a ban. They believe companies would collapse and that 10,000 jobs could be lost, also in the civilian sector where some military technological innovations are used.

"It's not a question of war and peace. We have to be realistic, there are conflicts around the world," Swiss Business Federation director Pascal Gentinetta told swissinfo.ch.

"Most of the weapons are used for self-defence and Switzerland also has the right to defend itself. Because we are a small country we have to export goods abroad [to support the industry]."

In addition, the campaign argues that spending an estimated SFr500 million ($490 million) of federal funds to repair the damage would be folly in the current economic climate.Export destinations

The Swiss cabinet has also come out against a weapons export ban. Economics Minister Doris Leuthard told a public meeting in Zurich on Monday that Swiss controls of the annual 2,000-2,500 export requests are the tightest in Europe.

She added that 70 per cent of material goes to European Union countries. "Even in less developed countries people have the right to defend themselves. Humanitarian aid is only possible with a certain amount of military back-up," Leuthard said.

She added that a collapse of the Swiss weapons industry would also harm the country's own army.

Tom Cassee said the popular initiative was not a back door route to getting rid of the Swiss army. And he insisted that some Swiss-made weapons end up in the wrong hands, taking particular issue with exports to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

"There are a lot of Swiss weapons killing innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan at the moment," he told swissinfo.ch. "Nobody can be sure that [Swiss-made] weapons are not in the hands of the Taliban because we know that a lot go directly from the Pakistan army to the other side."

A survey by the gfs.berne polling and research institute, six weeks before the vote, found that 41 per cent of those questioned intended to vote in favour of the export ban while 44 per cent said they would oppose the popular initiative.
Nobel winners support weapons export ban

Yeah, I guess those damn Taliban have stolen those anti-aircraft systems from the Pakistani Army and are now using them to slaughter civilians. Where is he getting his "information" from? And when he says it isn't "a back door route to getting rid of the Swiss army" he's lying, that's what the whole organisation (Group for a Switzerland without an Army) is about.
Two Nobel Peace Prize winners, South Africa's Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Argentina's Adolfo Pérez Esquivel, have backed an initiative to ban Swiss arms exports.

The Swiss will vote on the proposal on November 29.

The pacifist organisation behind the initiative, Group for a Switzerland without an Army, released a statement on Monday saying it was surprised to receive the letters last week from Tutu and Esquivel, which arrived independently of each other.

"By halting its delivery of war material, Switzerland could make a unique contribution to support the peaceful and sustainable development of our planet and a shining example for other countries to question their export policies," Tutu said in a copy of the letter made public by the Group.

"I think it is vital that swords are beaten into ploughshares and awareness is raised of the necessity for the arms industry to convert to making products for civil use," added Esquivel in his note.

Meanwhile, Ruag, the state-owned technology concern with a large defence unit, said on Monday that it would have to shed up 2,000 jobs – or more than a quarter of its worldwide workforce – if the Swiss vote in favour of the ban.
:lol: What a naive bunch of morons. But hey, lets get rid of a bunch of jobs (estimates of up to 10K jobs that could be lost) when the economy isn't doing well.
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His Divine Shadow
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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Would this also prevent export of small arms such as SIG rifles for civilian purposes?
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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Great idea!

That means Bofors can sell even more guns. :kill:

The Swiss have these odd little subjects poping up occationally.
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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His Divine Shadow wrote:Would this also prevent export of small arms such as SIG rifles for civilian purposes?
The OP wrote: Unlike previous attempts, the current initiative only calls for a ban on military, not civilian, weapons and ammunition. It also stipulates that taxpayers' money should be spent on retraining the industry's workforce for more peaceful production.
73% of all statistics are made up, including this one.

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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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I wonder if they consider a semi auto SIG 551 chambered in 5.56 NATO a military weapon or not.
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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[R_H] wrote::lol: What a naive bunch of morons. But hey, lets get rid of a bunch of jobs (estimates of up to 10K jobs that could be lost) when the economy isn't doing well.
It's more a question of their cultural identity as a neutral country, rather than an economic or business problem.

Can a country really claim to be neutral when it's selling arms to other nations?
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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Gilgamesh wrote:Can a country really claim to be neutral when it's selling arms to other nations?
Sure it can. Why would neutrality matter?
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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Yes because the issue is Swiss weapons being used in in wars and conflicts all over the world. Them such a well know maker of the AK-47 and RPG-7 and PKM machine gun and Enfield Rifle
Wait...

That politico is just scaremongering. Anyone who knows a damn thing knows it's not Swiss weapons you see in the Congo or in little flair ups around the world. It's always either world war I/II surplus equipment (Enfield, Mosin Nagant) being sold by former Eastern Bloc countries, Russia itself or China with re-selling by the buyers to yet other countries. The problem is not with Swiss weapons. They end up in the Navy's of other countries not in their "freedom fighters".

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[R_H]
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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Gilgamesh wrote: It's more a question of their cultural identity as a neutral country, rather than an economic or business problem.

Can a country really claim to be neutral when it's selling arms to other nations?
It's more a question of the GSoA being a bunch of naive douches. This will be the third referendum since 1972 on banning the export of arms. Lots of weaponry and dual use technology was sold to the Nazis during the early years of WW2 (later to the USA and GB). Just the other day there was a press release about a really long range sniper kill by the Brits in A-stan using Ruag ammo. Some reactions were "OMG, we could be a target for terrorist attacks now!" (as if the we weren't already :roll: ). The last big contraversy was that Chad jury-rigged a bunch of machine guns onto a Pilatus flight trainer they had, that was apparently the manufacturer's fault (I guess Toyota is to blame for every one of their Hilux trucks that get turned into technicals :lol: ).

Off the top of my head, the last sale of small arms was a bunch (not actually that many) of BT-9 submachine guns to Saudi-Arabia. Pakistan was sold AA gun-systems (ie not stuff the Taliban tend to lug around) and of course those Mowag Pirahnas that were sold to those evil Romanians.
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

Post by Gilgamesh »

CJvR wrote:Sure it can. Why would neutrality matter?
It depends on how they want to interpret their neutrality.

They may see the selling of arms to other nations as a breach of that stance.
[R_H] wrote:It's more a question of the GSoA being a bunch of naive douches. This will be the third referendum since 1972 on banning the export of arms. Lots of weaponry and dual use technology was sold to the Nazis during the early years of WW2 (later to the USA and GB). Just the other day there was a press release about a really long range sniper kill by the Brits in A-stan using Ruag ammo. Some reactions were "OMG, we could be a target for terrorist attacks now!" (as if the we weren't already :roll: ). The last big contraversy was that Chad jury-rigged a bunch of machine guns onto a Pilatus flight trainer they had, that was apparently the manufacturer's fault (I guess Toyota is to blame for every one of their Hilux trucks that get turned into technicals :lol: ).

Off the top of my head, the last sale of small arms was a bunch (not actually that many) of BT-9 submachine guns to Saudi-Arabia. Pakistan was sold AA gun-systems (ie not stuff the Taliban tend to lug around) and of course those Mowag Pirahnas that were sold to those evil Romanians.
Although I do think it would be more beneficial for the Swiss to continue selling arms to other nations I won't judge GSoA and voters harshly if they see things differently. They are after all exercising their democratic rights to set policy for the nation.
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

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Gilgamesh wrote: Although I do think it would be more beneficial for the Swiss to continue selling arms to other nations I won't judge GSoA and voters harshly if they see things differently. They are after all exercising their democratic rights to set policy for the nation.
I judge them harshly because they're naive and full of themselves. The arms industry here isn't big enough that an export ban would affect global availability, which doesn't make it much of a gesture. If the USA, Russia, China or the EU would stop exporting weapons and related technologies, now that would be something. This will be the third time they've sent in an initiative to get an export ban, the last one in 2007, and the previous two were turned down by three quarters of the voters.

In addition to demanding an export ban, they want that the state supports and encourages disarmament and arms-control internationally. Not even intellectual property related to armaments is allowed to be exported, also long as the recipient is outside of the country. The state also has to support those regions and individuals that are affected by the ban, in order to counter the economic effects of the ban, the initiative however does not say how this support should be implemented.
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

Post by Gilgamesh »

[R_H] wrote:I judge them harshly because they're naive and full of themselves. The arms industry here isn't big enough that an export ban would affect global availability, which doesn't make it much of a gesture. If the USA, Russia, China or the EU would stop exporting weapons and related technologies, now that would be something.
That doesn't seem to be what the issue is about though.
Article wrote:"It also contradicts our neutrality. When a country is not involved in foreign wars it should not export weapons to other countries,"
They aren't really out to change the world. The issue is how the country wants to define it's neutrality.
This will be the third time they've sent in an initiative to get an export ban, the last one in 2007, and the previous two were turned down by three quarters of the voters.
If attitudes haven't changed since then it's likely the proposal will once again fail.
In addition to demanding an export ban, they want that the state supports and encourages disarmament and arms-control internationally. Not even intellectual property related to armaments is allowed to be exported, also long as the recipient is outside of the country. The state also has to support those regions and individuals that are affected by the ban, in order to counter the economic effects of the ban, the initiative however does not say how this support should be implemented.
If the initiative passes then it's up to the government to implement it to the best of their ability. Democracy doesn't guarantee easy solutions.
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Re: Weapons export ban vote

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Well if it won't change anything it does sound like a useless feelgood bullshit move. Democratically decided or not hardly changes what one feels is pertinent about the issue.
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