10-year-old doesn't say pledge at school for gay rights

[chitoryu12]

Yo.

"Liberty and justice for all?"

Will Phillips doesn't believe that describes America for its gay and lesbian citizens. He's a 10-year-old at West Fork Elementary School in Arkansas, about three hours east of Oklahoma City. Given his beliefs, he refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

That did not go over well with the substitute teacher in his fifth-grade classroom.

The Arkansas Times reports that he started refusing to say the pledge Mon., Oct. 5. By Thursday, the substitute was steamed. She told Will she knew his mother and grandmother and they would want him to recite the pledge.

Will told the Times the substitute got more and more upset. She raised her voice. By this point, Will told the newspaper, he started losing his cool too, adding: "After a few minutes, I said, 'With all due respect ma'am, go jump off a bridge.'"



That got him sent to the principal's office. The principal made him look up information about the flag and what it represents. Meanwhile, there was the inevitable call to his mother.

At first, mom Laura Phillips told the Times, the principal talked about Will telling a substitute to jump off a bridge. When pressed, the principal admitted the whole incident was sparked by the boy exercising his constitutional right not to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

Phillips suggested an apology was in order -- from the teacher. When the principal said that wasn't necessary, Will's mother started venting to friends via Twitter. Those friends, in turn, told the news media. And what would have been a minor classroom incident has people throughout Arkansas and beyond choosing sides.

As for Will, he continues to exercise his right to remain silent. It can be rough at times, he and his family admit. He has his share of supporters, however, his critics are louder and nastier -- especially because he took his stand to defend gay rights.

"In the lunchroom and in the hallway, they've been making comments and doing pranks, calling me gay," he told the Times. "It's always the same people, walking up and calling me a gaywad."

Nonetheless, Will told the paper, he is sticking to his convictions. A reporter for the paper asked Will -- with all this talk about patriotism and the pledge -- what he thinks it means to be an American.

"Freedom of speech," he responded. "The freedom to disagree. That's what I think pretty much being an American represents."

His mother is proud.

"He's probably more aware of the meaning of the pledge that a lot of adults," Phillips told the Times.

I have to hand it to this kid. From the way he speaks and describes his position, he certainly seems much more intelligent than the average 10-year-old, and I'm happy that his mother is accepting his position rather than telling him to say the pledge because "It's what you're supposed to do," which I've seen in the past.

[Psychic_Sandwich]

I have to hand it to this kid. From the way he speaks and describes his position, he certainly seems much more intelligent than the average 10-year-old, and I'm happy that his mother is accepting his position rather than telling him to say the pledge because "It's what you're supposed to do," which I've seen in the past.

Judging from the position he's taking, he seems more intelligent than the average 30 year old. This is not a good thing, I feel.

[Serafina]

Clearly, impeaching jingoism on your children is more important than freedom of speech.

But seriously, i deeply respect him for standing up for his beliefs like that - especially since they are NOT self-centered beliefs.
If he determined this for himself, he is clearly way better at critical thinking than others of his age (or four time his age in a lot of cases).
If he got it from his parents, he is lucky to have such parents.

Either way, it shows that most US-conversatives can be outdone by a ten year old.

Oh, and did he actually "with all due respect"?
That's not only awesome, but i supports the notion that he is quite smart - thats propably the best way to vent if you have to.

I hope he does not get into any real trouble - wether from other children or adults. Sadly, i can imagine some religious child beating him up (or shooting him) for this.

[MarshalPurnell]

That the kid has any real awareness of such issues at all speaks highly for his intelligence. Usually at that age political sentiment is limited to repeating whatever they hear around them from their family. His stance indicates a degree of independent reasoning I wouldn't expect to see before the 9th grade, honestly. Unfortunately most of his peers are only vaguely aware that homosexuals are real people rather than legendary subhuman figures of contempt so he is undoubtedly catching hell from his fellow students. That his refusal to say the pledge can also be construed as unpatriotic makes it even worse, and he can probably count on very limited sympathy from educators. Most teachers in an area reflect the prevailing social views to a large degree rather than really challenging them; the "liberal teacher" isn't a myth but is excessively rare outside urban school districts, and no one ever seems to complain about small town teachers plastering their rooms with Christian religious messages.

Anyway, I hope the kid gets the hell out of Arkansas to somewhere his potential will be appreciated and nurtured.

[Teebs]

I have to hand it to this kid. From the way he speaks and describes his position, he certainly seems much more intelligent than the average 10-year-old, and I'm happy that his mother is accepting his position rather than telling him to say the pledge because "It's what you're supposed to do," which I've seen in the past.

To be fair, I'd be amazed if a 10 year made a political stand like that (for or against gay rights) without having gotten it from his parents, so it's not that surprising that his mother is backing him. Good for her all the same though.

[Alyeska]

I had wondered why the kid was being so mature about the whole thing.

Arkansas Times

For one thing, he's smart. Scary smart. A student in the West Fork School District in Washington County, he skipped a grade this year, going directly from the third to the fifth. When his family goes for a drive, discussions are much more apt to be about Teddy Roosevelt and terraforming Mars than they are about Spongebob Squarepants and what's playing on Radio Disney.

The kid is just as smart as the article makes him about to be.

[Serafina]

What Alyeska said

So, not only is he intelligent, but he apparently also has a family that encourages discussion.

Lucky Bastard Bastard being no really derogitary term

[Darth Yan]

wow, this kid's pretty awesome. and they way he owned the teacher made me want to weep tears of joy. Maybe my country does have hope afterall.

[Steve]

It seems that sometimes life has a way of shining brilliant rays of hope through what seems an all-enveloping cloud of despair.

[PeZook]

Should I even comment how bizarre and creepy I find the entire notion of reciting the Pledge Of Allegiance before class?

Oops. I guess I just did

That the teacher decided to throw such a massive fit about this complete non-issue is even more bizarre. From the looks of it, the kid's a great student, and the dumbass woman basically threw away her authority in front of the class by making a fuss out of it.

Especially since she could've turned the whole situation in a good learning experience: for example, why not have the class write argumentative essays expressing their opinions about the whole situation?

[Serafina]

Should I even comment how bizarre and creepy I find the entire notion of reciting the Pledge Of Allegiance before class?

Oops. I guess I just did

So do i. As i said: It's pure jingoism.

That the teacher decided to throw such a massive fit about this complete non-issue is even more bizarre. From the looks of it, the kid's a great student, and the dumbass woman basically threw away her authority in front of the class by making a fuss out of it.

Especially since she could've turned the whole situation in a good learning experience: for example, why not have the class write argumentative essays expressing their opinions about the whole situation?

Not suprising. A lot of teachers actually don't have any authority, except the one given to them by their job. They never earned even a shred of extra authority.

And really, i can understand why there was no discussion - those damn fundies would throw a fit about it.
But given the womans reaction, she was way to nationalistic for this - heck, i would not be surprised if she did not understand the reasoning behind the boys thinking.

[frogcurry]

How normal is it for a child still at school (and this young) to be asked to repeat the Pledge?

[Pelranius]

It's good to know that stuff like this can happen, though I hope he doesn't get social flak, since this is Arkansas we're talking about.

I must admit my first impression of reading the title was that he was doing it for the opposite reason (sorry, not reading very well today).

[Steve]

How normal is it for a child still at school (and this young) to be asked to repeat the Pledge?

It's a part of daily routine in the US, though it can run the gamut of having to stand and put your hand on your heart and recite it or just recite it from your desk, and various teachers are generally loose about it.

But a kid actively refusing to say the pledge? The sub's reaction was probably a mental BSOD moment. It was something she couldn't compute and so she defaulted to trying to wield authority, only to do so... foolishly.

[Guardsman Bass]

How normal is it for a child still at school (and this young) to be asked to repeat the Pledge?

It's a part of daily routine in the US, though it can run the gamut of having to stand and put your hand on your heart and recite it or just recite it from your desk, and various teachers are generally loose about it.

How far did it go at your schools? I remember saying it pretty much everyday in Elementary School, but honestly can't recall if it was ever regularly said in middle school and high school.

[Spyder]

If you're at a religious school does the pledge have to be recited along with the Lord's Prayer?

[CaptainChewbacca]

As a substitute teacher, I've gotta say that teacher was WAY out of line. I barely have time to notice IF the kids say the pledge, let alone keep track of who does and doesn't.

Some people like teaching because they want kids to learn, and some people like teaching because they want to tell people smaller than them what to do. Guess which this sub was.

[Master of Cards]

If you're at a religious school does the pledge have to be recited along with the Lord's Prayer?

My school we didn't even do a prayer everyday let alone the pledge. (Catholic School)

[ArmorPierce]

Had to say it everyday from elementary school until high school where the class schedule was staggered so everyone did not come in at the same time so not much point. Then I moved out to Jersey and the daily recital of the pledge continued. Not only that, a lot of schools require you to sing the star spangle banner in addition to it. I recall getting in trouble for not singing the star spangle banner and me explaining that I didn't know the words was not good enough.

[Dark Hellion]

How far did it go at your schools? I remember saying it pretty much everyday in Elementary School, but honestly can't recall if it was ever regularly said in middle school and high school.

From what I remember, before 9/11 saying the pledge stopped around middle school. After 9/11 with the whole pseudo-patriotism bullshit they started to say it in all levels. Personally, I feel it is insulting to force 17-18 year old kids to say the pledge but a lot of people treat it like it is an anti-terrorism spell or something.

[CarsonPalmer]

If you're at a religious school does the pledge have to be recited along with the Lord's Prayer?

My school was prayer, pledge, sit for announcements, class (Catholic school), although this only happened during the first period of the day.

[Oskuro]

some people like teaching because they want to tell people smaller than them what to do. Guess which this sub was.

To me, the teacher's reaction sounds like a person who cannot accept that a 10 year old is actually opposing her. I suspect she expected kids to be too docile to ever question anything, and she snapped when presented with actual opposition.

[Alyeska]

I just love the comments that the assholes are making about this kid.

Tell that to the vets coming back without limbs and severe head trauma or worse yet, in a body bag. Young Will thinks he's a good American by refusing to stand during the pledge of allegiance. He refuses to honor the sacrifices made by so many so that he can tell the teacher to go jump off a bridge. You should be so proud.

If you don't stand for the flag and the Republic for which it stands, you don't deserve freedom of speech.

Wow. We should be so proud of this little liberal idiot? It's Veterans Day today... That's what the flag represents. The people that gave their lives so some ungrateful little prick can sit there and act like a bastard. His family has more pride in those who tale it up the arse than those who gave their lives for them. Outstanding.

This is what happens when you're brainwashed by liberals. This is the kind of kid who is going to do something stupid when he is older. He has freedom of speech, but it's not okay to stand up to the liberal agenda? Yeah, guess that makes me an extremist. So be it.

I'm sorry. If you are unwilling to stand up for and recite the Pledge of Allegiance, then you lose all your rights to freedom of speech. I think the the country has strayed COMPLETELY away from many of its ideals (a.k.a. Roe V. Wade), but I still recite the Pledge, salute the flag, etc. WHY? Because I'm proud of my FREEDOM!!!

It still amazes me that these people think their views are normal.

[Neko_Oni]

To me, the teacher's reaction sounds like a person who cannot accept that a 10 year old is actually opposing her. I suspect she expected kids to be too docile to ever question anything, and she snapped when presented with actual opposition.

Reminds of that story of a kid getting suspended for objecting to a teacher's (incorrect) definition of...damnit can't remember now. It was a basic thing like the definition of a kilometre or something. Legitimate debate should be encouraged, so that kids learn to think for themselves.

[Alyeska]

Alright, a good counter reply to the idiots. I liked this one.

As an American Soldier currently serving overseas, I must say this story gives me hope for the future of the country I have pledged to defend. To those who call Will's refusal to say the pledge "unpatriotic", I must wholeheartedly disagree. He is utilizing his freedom of speech to protest an inequality in our society with the goal of improving our country. I respect Will's form of patriotism infinitely more than a blind recitation of the pledge. To Will, stay strong and thank you.