The MMA thread (mk1)

[Pablo Sanchez]

Rogers nearly got the upset, if he had better top control & balance he could've punched Fedor's head through the mat, but he didn't, and almost got armbarred when Fedor went for the escape. He was scoring solid punches on Fedor with his ground & pound but he just couldn't maintain his position, I thought for a few moments that Fedor was about to get pounded out. Then in the 2nd round, boom! Fedor puts everything into a massive right and drops Rogers onto the canvas, couple punches later and it's all over. Fedor wins again, and all is right with the world.

Watching the video online, it looks like a contest between physique and technique. Fedor gets close to ending the fight by submission several times during the first round but Rogers powers his way out to survive. The fight ended with a wild punch but if it hadn't, it probably would have finished on the ground with Rogers too fatigued to escape one more submission. Watching Emelianenko work is truly impressive and I'm glad it was on network TV, because he deserves widespread recognition as a fighter. He's as talented and skilled as anybody who ever threw a punch and it'd be a crime if his name wasn't in the same pantheon as Dempsey and Ali, regardless of which sport we're talking about.

[weemadando]

Goddamn.

Miller v Shields was unfortunate. Mayhem plan for the first two rounds was solid, let Shields waste energy on him, then explode back. Hell, I wonder how he only ended up winning one round on the judges scorecards. But he spent too much time on the ground.

Rogers v Fedor? I thought for a moment that we were going to see the greatest eruption of keyboard warrior indignation in history. Sadly that was denied, but Fedor was put right on the map. Now. UFC please.

[weemadando]

There can only be one reaction to this story:

HIS CAMP SAYS FEDOR'S NOSE NOT BROKEN
Sunday, November 08, 2009 - by Steven Marrocco - MMAWeekly.com
FedorTSylviaAfl1_7608.jpg

Fedor Emelianenko did not sustain a broken nose in his Saturday fight with Brett Rogers, according to a member of his camp.

Emelianenko took a hard jab to the nose in the opening exchange of the fight, causing it to bleed generously throughout the fight.

Emelianenko stopped Rogers cold in the second round with a right hand, racking up his 31st professional victory.

Steven Bash, Emelianenko's translator and American representative, said Sunday that the jab caused a deep cut to his nose, but did not damage it in any other way.

Bash confirmed that Emelianenko injured his left hand and may have dislocated his thumb requiring it to be popped back into place. The Russian heavyweight was later outfitted with a soft cast at a Chicago area hospital.

Bash said Emelianenko would visit a Chicago-area doctor Monday to check on his injuries.

[Edward Yee]

Mark Miller vs. Deray Davis was apparently scrubbed from the card due to "time constraints"... the live card, not just the broadcast, with them finding out right before it should have gone on. Word is that they got show money, but no bonuses, plus one of them may have lost all of his sponsor money since he couldn't appear.

[weemadando]

Yeah, I was reading about that. What typical fucking douchery. It seems to be that the curse of Elite XC mismanagement may in fact be the curse of CBS.

As for the "time constraints" according to Sherdog's "Beatdown After The Bell" podcast there was half an hour of dead-time before the televised card because the females fight finished early and they'd scrapped this fight.

So these local, low level fighters are robbed not only of their chance to perform, but of their hard-earned because Strikeforce can't manage to keep a bunch of Russian Mobster's M-1 Managment fellows out of the ring and maintain order? Or manage a fucking telecast?

I mean really - it was a shit job by Strikeforce overall, the commentary team was rough as hell. The camera work gave us more time spent on the arse of Big John than I'd ever want to see again. And the ad break timings meant that we didn't get to know the fighters, there were hardly any post-fight interviews and no real build up to the fights.

The only decent thing was that their sound equipment and mixing was spot on and gave us some great in-the-cage noise.

[Edward Yee]

Yeah, I was reading about that. What typical fucking douchery. It seems to be that the curse of Elite XC mismanagement may in fact be the curse of CBS.

As for the "time constraints" according to Sherdog's "Beatdown After The Bell" podcast there was half an hour of dead-time before the televised card because the females fight finished early and they'd scrapped this fight.

So these local, low level fighters are robbed not only of their chance to perform, but of their hard-earned because Strikeforce can't manage to keep a bunch of Russian Mobster's M-1 Managment fellows out of the ring and maintain order? Or manage a fucking telecast?

It gets worse; according to Bloody Elbow, it's Mark Miller who lost all his sponsor money (his reps naming "Jaco Clothing, Hayabusa, World Fight Shop, Immortal Apparel, Guerrilla Fight, Another Dimension Tatoos and Rockwell Watches"), that "nothing has been promised as of yet" (Miller's reps) as to whether he can at least fight on the next card, and according to MMA Recap, the fighters' friends/family/training partners were denied refunds (on several of 120-150 tickets between the two) when the only fight they'd come to see was scrapped.



I can agree though with those blaming Strikeforce, not CBS or the sponsors,who hopefully may be able to quickly rearrange things for Miller and Davis to fight... hopefully against each other, so that their specific training isn't wasted.

[weemadando]

The response I read from Strikeforce is that the half hour delay was because they needed to switch broadcast equipment from their gear to CBS' gear.

Really? Why didn't you just fucking lease their gear for your half of hte show and not fuck up your schedule?

Every time I think that I want to see Strikeforce succeed they remind me what a pack of two bit hacks they really are.

[esthera]

Spambot banned ~Edi

[weemadando]

The obvious first step is that you'd ask your coach.

Because really, if you want to fight MMA, you should probably have a coach.

[Edward Yee]

Update on the Strikeforce drama: Mark Miller and Deray Davis are getting their win bonuses, but as for them actually getting to fight each other:

Just so you know, we made every attempt to put the fight back on in another Chicago area fight so they could fight in front of their hometown fans but neither fighter was available on the date proposed for a local card there.

[weemadando]

OK, the Couture v Vera card.

I had Vera winning the first and third with the second being a draw or marginally to Randy despite the damage done by Vera as Couture controlled the pace so well when he wasn't getting folded in half by kicks. It was definitely the case of experience and wrestling winning out though as Couture's plan was rock solid, even if his ribs weren't. I think this was more of a crime that Shogun v Machida, but at the same time I really expected this outcome anyhow as it's Randy...

Dan Hardy has pretty much no chance against GSP with that wrestling, unless that wrestling was all an elaborate ruse... Which I doubt, but may as well put out there, as making GSP feel that he'll be a pushover in the wrestling is probably the only reason to have spent so much time trying to take down Swick. Then again, I'm not Dan Hardy or his coaches, so who knows if they saw something in Swick that they thought they could exploit.

Bisping v Kang - Bisping's chin almost put on a show again. And then when he finally got fired up - that's the Bisping people like to see.

Wilks v Brown - brilliant fight, but it was clear that Wilks' last ditch kimura was in fact that. All credit to both of them though, it was a great fight.

Pearson put on a fucking show with his striking. I was loving the outside knees in the clinch. He's probably the best looking TUF winner in a while.

Winner showed why I thought he was a lock to win that season of TUF. His hands are about the fastest you'll see and that KO was awesome.

The highlight reel of Terry Etim's choke was also fairly impressive.

[aerius]

I had Vera winning the first and third with the second being a draw or marginally to Randy despite the damage done by Vera as Couture controlled the pace so well when he wasn't getting folded in half by kicks. It was definitely the case of experience and wrestling winning out though as Couture's plan was rock solid, even if his ribs weren't. I think this was more of a crime that Shogun v Machida, but at the same time I really expected this outcome anyhow as it's Randy...

I had Randy winning the 1st & 3rd, Vera had Randy neutralized in the 2nd and dropped him with some good body kicks. 1st & 3rd go to Randy for the clinch and dirty boxing, Randy got some decent punches & elbows on Vera against the fence and also got him with knees to the leg, plus he got the takedown in round 1 though Vera evened that one out with the opening punches. That cancels out, so Randy takes it by his clinchwork and control. 3rd round, Vera got the takedown & mount, but couldn't do shit with it and Randy escaped it in a bit over 20 seconds. Vera got a few good kicks in but Randy tagged him with punches to the head as well so the striking in the open cancels out again. So that leaves nearly 4 minutes of Vera getting clinched, elbowed, and uppercutted against the fence, which was judged to be more significant than 20 seconds of mount to nothing.

You could make a case for Vera, but fact is he spent 90% of the fight defending himself and doing jack. No doubt it was a cheap win for Randy, but I don't see anything nearly as unfair as the Machida-Shogun decision.

Bisping v Kang - Bisping's chin almost put on a show again. And then when he finally got fired up - that's the Bisping people like to see.

I don't know what Kang was doing, he rocked Bisping bigtime and what does he do? He goes to ground with him and plays the submission game, what the fuck. If you're going to go to ground with a rocked opponent you beat him on the head some more, you don't try to get a kimura or arm triangle while letting the guy recover, you pound his fucking head in or let him get back up so you can punch him in the head again. But no, he goes down and plays fucking twister. Then in the 2nd round he just fell apart. Again.

Pearson put on a fucking show with his striking. I was loving the outside knees in the clinch. He's probably the best looking TUF winner in a while.

Yup. It's about time a non Chute Boxe fighter learned to use the clinch to swing people around and knee them good.

[Zadius]

Seems the UK strikers and taking the UFC by storm with Hardy, Pearson, Winner, and Paul Daley. I was happy with Bisping's performance too, even though I was rooting for Kang. He lost the first, then came out with a different strategy in the second. Sometimes plan B works better than plan A.

I didn't think the main event was such a huge robbery either. I think rounds 1 and 3 were very close, and Vera won number 2. I was expecting a split decision. Hey, does anyone understand why Randy didn't use this strategy versus Big Nog? He tried it successfully against Gonzaga, and unsuccessfully against Lesnar. I thought for sure he could hold Nog against the fence and grind him down in order to avoid the striking and grappling game of Nogueira. It seems like he got baited into an ill-advised boxing match though.

[aerius]

Hey, does anyone understand why Randy didn't use this strategy versus Big Nog? He tried it successfully against Gonzaga, and unsuccessfully against Lesnar. I thought for sure he could hold Nog against the fence and grind him down in order to avoid the striking and grappling game of Nogueira. It seems like he got baited into an ill-advised boxing match though.

Nog could probably pull guard on him and drag him to the ground, and messing around on the ground with big Nog is asking to be submitted. You just don't want to put yourself in a position against Nog where he can get a hold of you and somehow get you to the ground unless your name is Fedor.

[weemadando]

I think Couture v Vera for me was a more egregious outcome thank Shogun v Machida because Vera so clearly had Randy's number. Randy had no offense. Somehow it seems that when Randy is involved, leaning your opponent against a cage for the whole match becomes "PERFECT GAMEPLAN!" rather than the "FUCKING AWFUL FIGHT AND YOU'RE A TERRIBLE HUMAN BEING!" reaction that Tim Sylvia got. Kind of like how Machida getting backed up by Shogun is "elusive karate master" not "OH FUCK!"

Anyhow - yeah, doing the clinch and lean against Big Nog is a bad idea as Nog would pull guard and he has a really good guard.

And btw - how the fuck is Randy a 5 time champ with a record of 17-10? And no doubt all of his slavering fans are the ones who bawl out the UFC for giving Lesnar "preferential treatment".

Speaking of which - Lesnar may be out for good. The talk is that he was hospitalised due to severe complications from his illness (glandular fever/swine flu) which could be career ending.

Big Nog is out of his fight against Velasquez as a major staph infection has now gotten into his bloodstream - so if he lives through the next few days (depending on how bad the strain is) in hospital, he'll be fine.

And Shane Carwin is out until February at least with his injury.

I can see a lot of post-season recruitment from this season of TUF.

[Edward Yee]

And btw - how the fuck is Randy a 5 time champ with a record of 17-10? And no doubt all of his slavering fans are the ones who bawl out the UFC for giving Lesnar "preferential treatment".

Two weight divisions, plus some of those losses aren't in UFC. Based on Wiki he took a majority decision over Maurice Smith in '97 (at UFC Japan) for the HW title, TKO'd Kevin Randleman in 2000 for the HW title, TKO'd Liddell in 2003 for the interim LHW title, got a UD over Ortiz to unify the LHW titles that year, got a doctor stoppage over Vitor Belfort to win it back*, and finally there was the win over Tim Sylvia for the HW title.

I certainly won't call Smith and Randleman cans or paper champions, much less in that time period of MMA history, but I'm not seeing what the problem or objection should be here.

* This one was due to the preceding cut stoppage that got Belfort the LHW belt.

[aerius]

I think Couture v Vera for me was a more egregious outcome thank Shogun v Machida because Vera so clearly had Randy's number. Randy had no offense. Somehow it seems that when Randy is involved, leaning your opponent against a cage for the whole match becomes "PERFECT GAMEPLAN!" rather than the "FUCKING AWFUL FIGHT AND YOU'RE A TERRIBLE HUMAN BEING!" reaction that Tim Sylvia got.

Well, this is the first crappy Couture fight in a long time, you'll have to go all the way back to UFC 49 and his fight with Vitor Befort before you see another fight where he smothered his opponent with clinching and work in the half-guard. With Timmy, almost every single one of his fights was a suckfest once he came off the 'roids, if Randy gets a few more stinkers in a row I bet he'll start getting booed as well.

[weemadando]

And btw - how the fuck is Randy a 5 time champ with a record of 17-10? And no doubt all of his slavering fans are the ones who bawl out the UFC for giving Lesnar "preferential treatment".

Two weight divisions, plus some of those losses aren't in UFC. Based on Wiki he took a majority decision over Maurice Smith in '97 (at UFC Japan) for the HW title, TKO'd Kevin Randleman in 2000 for the HW title, TKO'd Liddell in 2003 for the interim LHW title, got a UD over Ortiz to unify the LHW titles that year, got a doctor stoppage over Vitor Belfort to win it back*, and finally there was the win over Tim Sylvia for the HW title.

I certainly won't call Smith and Randleman cans or paper champions, much less in that time period of MMA history, but I'm not seeing what the problem or objection should be here.

* This one was due to the preceding cut stoppage that got Belfort the LHW belt.

Oh I'm not doubting that he could have done it, I just find it remarkable that someone with a record that looks like that can be a 5 time champ and so beloved... Just look at how quickly most people jump off a bandwagon after a loss.

[aerius]

Oh I'm not doubting that he could have done it, I just find it remarkable that someone with a record that looks like that can be a 5 time champ and so beloved... Just look at how quickly most people jump off a bandwagon after a loss.

It's also the quality of his opponents, practically every last one of his fights was against a top 3 or at worst a top 5 fighter at the time, other than GSP and Chuck Liddell I can't think of anyone in the UFC who's had that many fights with top level competition.

[Edward Yee]

Oh I'm not doubting that he could have done it, I just find it remarkable that someone with a record that looks like that can be a 5 time champ and so beloved... Just look at how quickly most people jump off a bandwagon after a loss.

What aerius said, and you're willing to discount the Smith and Randleman wins, then in the Zuffa period all three of Couture's title wins were under convenient circumstances that shortened the road to contending -- the interim light heavyweight title situation in the first half of 2003, the immediate rematch with Belfort (I guess because it was deemed "illegitimate" for Belfort to be considered champion based on a cut TKO loss?), and Brandon Vera's contract dispute that led to Couture replacing him against Tim Sylvia.

As for the beloved? I think part of it is still the legacy of "YES someone beat Tim Sylvia!" as well as the "holy shit quotient" of Couture becoming champion at such advanced age, though presenting himself as a stand-up guy clearly helps.

[weemadando]

Someone from BJJ posted this... I like it.

[Lord Pounder]

Been following the Brock Lesnar sickness, what is the story with this? If Lesnar will never fight again as I saw speculated in more than a few sites will he be stripped of his title and if so how would a new champ be crowned? Has anything like this happened before?

[The Spartan]

Similar things have happened in boxing, i.e. a champ retiring. At which point the belt is put up by the commission responsible for it and the top two contenders fight it out for belt.

I would presume the UFC would so something similar.

[aerius]

Been following the Brock Lesnar sickness, what is the story with this? If Lesnar will never fight again as I saw speculated in more than a few sites will he be stripped of his title and if so how would a new champ be crowned? Has anything like this happened before?

From what I've heard he has a case of mono, then got hit with some kind of bacterial infection in his intestines. He'll be out for a while, if it's bad it could be over a year or even career ending.

If he's going to be out for a year or 2 they'll probably have the top contenders fight for an interim heavyweight title, and after Brock's ready to come back they'll have a fight for the undisputed title belt. If he's out for good they'll have the contenders fight for the undisputed heavyweight belt.

[Zadius]

Been following the Brock Lesnar sickness, what is the story with this? If Lesnar will never fight again as I saw speculated in more than a few sites will he be stripped of his title and if so how would a new champ be crowned? Has anything like this happened before?

Frank Mir was the HW champ when he had his motorcycle accident. They did Andrei Arlovski vs. Tim Sylvia for the interim title, then waited to see if Mir could come back to face Arlovski. He couldn't, so they stripped him of the belt and Arlovski became champ.