Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by Solauren »

Outrage in Washington over Obama's Japan bow
Outrage in Washington over Obama's Japan bow

WASHINGTON (AFP) - News photos of President Barack Obama bowing to Japan's emperor have incensed critics here, who said the US leader should stand tall when representing America overseas.

Obama on Monday was in China, having wrapped up the Japan leg of his Asia trip two days earlier. But Washington's punditocracy was still weighing whether or not the US president had disgraced his country two days earlier by having taken a deep bow at the waist while meeting Japan's Emperor Akihito.

Political talk shows have played and replayed the moment from the second day of Obama's week-long Asia tour, which set the blogosphere on fire and chat show tongues wagging.

"I don't know why President Obama thought that was appropriate. Maybe he thought it would play well in Japan. But it's not appropriate for an American president to bow to a foreign one," said conservative pundit William Kristol speaking on the Fox News Sunday program, adding that the gesture bespoke a United States that has become weak and overly-deferential under Obama.

Another conservative voice, Bill Bennett, said on CNN's "State of the Union" program: "It's ugly. I don't want to see it."

"We don't defer to emperors. We don't defer to kings or emperors. The president of the United States -- this coupled with so many apologies from the United States -- is just another thing," said Bennett.

Some conservative critics juxtaposed the image of Obama with one of former US vice president Dick Cheney, who greeted the emperor in 2007 with a firm handshake but no bow.

"I'll bet if you look at pictures of world leaders over 20 years meeting the emperor in Japan, they don't bow," Kristol said.

Some said the gesture was particularly grating coming after Obama's bow to Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah at a G20 meeting in April.

The US president's Asia trip comes just over a year after he won election to the White House, and is designed to shore up US power in a region increasingly dominated by rising giant China.

But back home, Obama's bow in Japan seems to have grabbed much of the attention being paid to the trip.

The gesture appears to have touched a particularly raw nerve among Obama critics who said the president has hastened America's decline as a world superpower by being too apologetic and too deferential in his dealings with other world leaders.

While most of the commentary about the bow in Japan was decidedly negative, some political observers, like longtime Democratic activist Donna Brazile, came to the president's defense.

"I think it's a gesture of kindness," she told CNN, adding that the bow appeared intended to show "goodwill between two nations that respect each other."

Meanwhile, an unnamed, senior Obama administration official told the Politico.com news site that the president had simply been observing protocol.

"I think that those who try to politicize those things are just way, way, way off base," the official told Politico.

"I don't think anybody who was in Japan -- who saw his speech and the reaction to it, certainly those who witnessed his bilateral meetings there -- would say anything other than that he enhanced both the position and the status of the US, relative to Japan," Politico wrote.

"It was a good, positive visit at an important time, because there's a lot going on in Japan."
Okay, this is beyond stupid.

The President of the United States is respecting another's cultural traditions! Oh no!.

He was now bowing to the head of a foreign government. He was bowing and showing respect to another countries symbol. The Japanese Emperor has all the legal power of a plant. Symbolic at best.

The fact Obama is apologizing is weakening America. Wow. That's a load of a crap.

If this isn't a window into 'Conservative' thinking, I don't know what is.

Not surprisingly, it's mostly bloggers and FAUX-news people.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by Akhlut »

Oh shit, the double-whammy of showing respect to someone and following another culture's traditions! The US is going to be overrun by Islamofascist Commie Black-Christian Supremacists!

I seriously don't get this shit. It's not like he was handing over sovereignty to Akihito or something, nor does this mean the US is now incapable of projecting its power. Whatever nation that tries to use this as some sort of leverage over the US would soon find themselves the laughingstock of the planet.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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Is "Obama does something, Fox News/talk radio/right blogosphere gets acts pissed off" even news anymore? I mean, it's pretty obvious their strategy is to throw as much manufactured outrage at the wall as possible and hope some of it sticks. If there was a camera in the White House bathroom, they'd criticize Obama for wiping his ass the wrong way.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by General Zod »

Guess which other US President has done the exact same thing?

Oh look, it's Richard Nixon. Bowing to the guy who bombed Pearl Harbor.

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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by The Spartan »

This is the normal stupid. I mean, it's not like he gets griped at for shaking others hands, which is what the bow is equivalent to in Japanese culture.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by Frank Hipper »

He looks clumsy and ignorant in the photo I've seen. That's my criticism.

He could have actually observed Japanese custom and not shaken the Emperor's hand while bowing.

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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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RedImperator wrote:Is "Obama does something, Fox News/talk radio/right blogosphere gets acts pissed off" even news anymore? I mean, it's pretty obvious their strategy is to throw as much manufactured outrage at the wall as possible and hope some of it sticks. If there was a camera in the White House bathroom, they'd criticize Obama for wiping his ass the wrong way.
No, it's not news by any measure. But it IS very telling of just how much of an imperial attitude the assholes leveling this criticism at him are displaying. These are the same motherfuckers who are pissing their pants and wetting their beds in terror at the mere idea of a radical islamist getting actual due process in US courts. Who are the main enablers of terrorism, determined to destroy all goodwill the US enjoys abroad just to fuel their masturbatory wank-fantasies without giving a damn about reality.

That is the truth of neoconservatism, a bunch of spineless cowards who are all bluster and no substance with an attitude of entitlement and imperialist ambitions. Of course they are pissed. Or enough of them are that the ones who are just operating on calculation can make good use of it.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by Steve »

Frank Hipper wrote:He looks clumsy and ignorant in the photo I've seen. That's my criticism.

He could have actually observed Japanese custom and not shaken the Emperor's hand while bowing.

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Maybe it was a meeting of cultures? Obama bows in respect, Akihito accepts his handshake in reply? Seems perfectly logical to me and I don't think the Japanese would regard it as an insult or what have you.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by Edi »

Frank Hipper wrote:He looks clumsy and ignorant in the photo I've seen. That's my criticism.

He could have actually observed Japanese custom and not shaken the Emperor's hand while bowing.

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Seeing the photo, yes, that is true. The correct way to bow is with a straight back, eyes slightly downward, but with your head held straight up.

One would think the President of the United States had some competent coaching in this sort of situations, because that is the very first thing any respectable dojo teaches students of judo, jujutsu, karate etc before they even begin to show the basics.

So yes, he can be criticized for the ignorance and lack of technique on the bow, but not for the gesture of respect per se.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by Edi »

Steve wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:He looks clumsy and ignorant in the photo I've seen. That's my criticism.

He could have actually observed Japanese custom and not shaken the Emperor's hand while bowing.
Maybe it was a meeting of cultures? Obama bows in respect, Akihito accepts his handshake in reply? Seems perfectly logical to me and I don't think the Japanese would regard it as an insult or what have you.
Would be better form to bow correctly first, then shake hands normally. Less awkward and it would show reciprocity of customs better than that hybrid atrocity in the photo.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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Contrast Obama's technique with Nixon's bow. Nixon does it better by far in that photo.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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Edi wrote: Would be better form to bow correctly first, then shake hands normally. Less awkward and it would show reciprocity of customs better than that hybrid atrocity in the photo.
I'm not saying he doesn't look a little ridiculous doing both at the same time, but you gotta know that had he bowed first, then shaken the man's hand, the conservatives would blast him for bowing to their custom before "imposing" our own. Or some such ridiculous shit. Really, I find it impossible to predict what new stupidity will come out of that camp.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by J Ryan »

Solauren wrote:Outrage in Washington over Obama's Japan bow
Outrage in Washington over Obama's Japan bow

WASHINGTON (AFP) - News photos of President Barack Obama bowing to Japan's emperor have incensed critics here, who said the US leader should stand tall when representing America overseas."
If this isn't a window into 'Conservative' thinking, I don't know what is.

Not surprisingly, it's mostly bloggers and FAUX-news people.
Surprisingly can't remember much fuss when Bush showed respect to Prince Abdullah.

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Seems anything Obama does is picked apart by some demographic.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

This was an unacceptable gesture. People of equal rank do not bow to each other, and the Emperor of Japan is no more of a sovereign than the President of the United States. This isn't about respect--no system of respect would require a sovereign ruler to bow to another. This is ultimately, simply and actually, a breach of proper protocols between those of power.

The extreme affection Bush showed to a Saudi Prince is actually within the appropriate context--casual friendship between those of power is encouraged. Formality would actually be discouraged. And that is the problem; symbolically Obama showed obesience to the Emperor of Japan. And I guarantee to you many people over there saw it as such, snickering and making fun of him at the least. He was elected to represent a nation, which has fought wars on occasions past before it would render honours to foreign potentates, and this is what we get? I'm sorry, but the condemnation in this case is fully justified. That was inappropriate behaviour out of the man we elected President, and even Akihito surely knew it.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

General Zod wrote:Guess which other US President has done the exact same thing?

Oh look, it's Richard Nixon. Bowing to the guy who bombed Pearl Harbor.

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Hirohito is bowing, too. This is appropriate.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by General Zod »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Hirohito is bowing, too. This is appropriate.
It looks like Akihito might be bowing in the OP photo, but it's hard to tell in the angle of the photo and if he is it's not as deeply as Obama's. Whoever coached Obama on how to bow just did a poor job of it.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

I can't help but wonder what the reaction would be by the people in this thread to, oh, say, Obama bowing (perhaps for a benediction) before the Pope. (also a head of state :P)
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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And I guarantee to you many people over there saw it as such, snickering and making fun of him at the least.
What makes you say that? As far as I know Obama is very popular in Japan...is anyone but the American right-wing jingoists making a big deal out of this?

Do we know whether or not Akihito bowed? We just have the one picture in this thread.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by Kuja »

He looks like he's bowing a little bit to me in the photo. He also looks to me to be fairly old - if he hasn't aged well he simply might not be capable of bowing as deeply as Obama is.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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Obama is also significantly taller than Akihito, too, so it might be natural for Obama to bow more deeply when reaching for the man's hand.

I agree, Obama looks awkward in making the gesture, but then, it's not a gesture Americans make frequently so it's not like he'd have the lifetime of practice a Japanese person would.

You can read all sorts of nuances into this. I doubt very much that anyone Japanese is going to read this as the US being subservient to Japan (September 2, 1945 sort of settled that question for a good long time). We already know how some Americans view this. My question is how the Japanese took it. Did they see Obama's somewhat awkward bowing/handshaking as a good faith gesture to a culture not his own? As diplomatic ineptitude? An insult? We're they pleased he made the attempt to show them respect?

It's not just about how the US sees this, it's about how others see it.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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Who gives a fuck? Oh no, he bowed to a member of foreign royalty! Oh no, he didn't do it right!

The economy is in shambles, we're in two wars, the conservative filth grow ever more strident and violent in their screaming, and we're to care how the president bows to Japan's emperor? Yeah, no. An awkwardly-performed gesture of respect shouldn't be high on anyone's priorities.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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Back when we were a weak and rebellious former British Colony those sorts of things were important.

As arguably the nation with the world's most powerful military, and still a force to be reckoned with in other areas.... it matters not so much.

But I'd rather the conservatards be shitting their pants over this than sabotaging health care reform.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

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Broomstick wrote:Obama is also significantly taller than Akihito, too, so it might be natural for Obama to bow more deeply when reaching for the man's hand.

I agree, Obama looks awkward in making the gesture, but then, it's not a gesture Americans make frequently so it's not like he'd have the lifetime of practice a Japanese person would.

You can read all sorts of nuances into this. I doubt very much that anyone Japanese is going to read this as the US being subservient to Japan (September 2, 1945 sort of settled that question for a good long time). We already know how some Americans view this. My question is how the Japanese took it. Did they see Obama's somewhat awkward bowing/handshaking as a good faith gesture to a culture not his own? As diplomatic ineptitude? An insult? We're they pleased he made the attempt to show them respect?

It's not just about how the US sees this, it's about how others see it.
I managed to find a Japanese blurb (link may be screwy) about it after a bit of digging. Some of the comments are hilarious and about what you'd expect. Most of them seem to be saying he bowed too deeply.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by Morilore »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:This was an unacceptable gesture. People of equal rank do not bow to each other,
Flat wrong. In America, you shake hands when you meet; in Japan, you bow. Bowing lower than the other person is a sign of deference, but in this case Obama's not doing it right anyway so it's clear he's not put that much thought into this. And it's not clear to me that in the Hirohito/Reagan picture, the Emperor obviously is bowing as well; whereas in Obama's picture he obviously is not. Not that it matters one whit anyway.
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Re: Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

Post by TimothyC »

Let us look at others

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert
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King of Morocco
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Dick Cheney
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Prime Minister of Slovenia
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President South Korea
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President Kazakhstan
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Prime Minister India
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Vladimir Putin
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President Obama...
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http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2009/1 ... world.html

Plus, President Obama is doing it all wrong. You keep your back as strait as possible.

Also, you can see that Akihito hardly bows at all.
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