Is the Fire Nation Steampunk?

[Zor]

In the setting of the Avatar Universe, the Fire Nation is (despite it's lack of chemically propelled projectile weaponry) an industrialized state with the steam engine as the primary source of Mechanical power with technology including...

1-Ironclad Warships
2-Airship Bombers
3-Steam Powered Jet Skiis
4-Steam Powered Tanks and land behicles
5-A massive boring device (again, powered by Steam)
6-Advanced Mechanical Prosthetics (Sparky Sparky Boom Man)

Is this enough for the Fire Nation to be classified as Steampunk?

Zor

[Duckie]

New Zor with random polls isn't as fun as Old Zor with random RARs.

I never thought I'd say that though.

Also this poll needs a comedy option for me to vote for.

[Samuel]

I'm pretty sure steam power ironclads falls under realistic. Also most steam punk requires burning coal or wood- not using magic to heat the water. I'd classify it as magitech.

[Winston Blake]

I voted 'not steampunk'.

By my definition of steampunk: needs more punk. It's a poorly defined term.

People only use it because there isn't a better succinct term for the general idea.

Maybe 'retro-Victorianism'? Nah, it's got 5 more syllables. 'AlterVic'? 'Vic-o-fic'? I give up.

[Dalton]

No. There should be a definitive lack of magic in Steampunk.

[Rye]

No. There should be a definitive lack of magic in Steampunk.

Not convinced by that. Sleepy Hollow is, I would say, a good gothic steampunk story, it even actually has the "punk" aspect missing from most things people refer to as steampunk, in that the protagonist is alienated, there are various unfeeling and cold authority figures and there's a bit of anarchy in there. There's also the theme of victoriana technology and emergent scientific method vs magic and I think it works well on the whole.

As for the OP, I have not watched it, but it sounds like it's primarily a fantasy setting with steampunk aesthetics.

[Vendetta]

Not really. Proper steampunk should really have lots of polished brass and gratuitous clockwork.

The Fire Nation are just an early industrial nation with their capabilities enhanced by the fact that some people can shoot fire from their hands.

The only really steampunk thing they have is proper war zeppelins.

[Dalton]

I think the main idea behind Steampunk is that everything is technology driven. The main thing that sets it apart from cyberpunk is exactly what era that tech is from.

[Akkleptos]

No. There should be a definitive lack of magic in Steampunk.

Yes. Nevertheless, does the genre definition forbid magic per-se?

Otherwise, being able to manipulate fire is an excellent way to power steam machines.

With the drawback that the water in such machines would be easily manipulated by Waterbenders... Which begs the question: Was that why the Fire Nation has been so keen on utterly eliminating all Waterbenders?

And, come to think of it, if they can make fire grow from a single flame, why do they need fuel at all? Do they need fuel?

[Edit]Why is it that Waterbenders, Earthbenders and Windbenders all seem to need to have the actual element in front of them to manipulate, while Firebenders apparently just need a little flame to get everything started?

Oh, and why wouldn't Waterbenders manipulate the water inside, say, a Firebender they're fighting with, since a human body is over 75% water... "for the win"...?

[Themightytom]

I'm pretty sure steam power ironclads falls under realistic. Also most steam punk requires burning coal or wood- not using magic to heat the water. I'd classify it as magitech.

Seconded. Although no one thought to add magitek as a category in time so it could be shorehorned.

Additionally, HOW the F do the Firebenders win over waterbenders? That defies logic

[Xon]

Oh, and why wouldn't Waterbenders manipulate the water inside, say, a Firebender they're fighting with, since a human body is over 75% water... "for the win"...?

That is called bloodbending, and it has a justifiable stigma attached to it.

[Xon]

Additionally, HOW the F do the Firebenders win over waterbenders? That defies logic

Fire evaporates water. And fire is quite useful in forging and metal working.

[squidman001]

Why is it that Waterbenders, Earthbenders and Windbenders all seem to need to have the actual element in front of them to manipulate, while Firebenders apparently just need a little flame to get everything started?

Oh, and why wouldn't Waterbenders manipulate the water inside, say, a Firebender they're fighting with, since a human body is over 75% water... "for the win"...?

According to Hama in the episode "The Puppetmaster" in season 3 of Avatar, the water benders need a full moon to blood bend, although in the episode "The Southern Raiders," Katara blood bends the captain of the ship and there's no mention of whether or not there is a full moon. It could be either that Katara is just a lot more powerful than Hama is, so she can do it when she wants or that there was a full moon in that episode.

Also the fire benders do not need to have fire with them to bend it. When going through their stances and moves they create fire.

[Vendetta]

although in the episode "The Southern Raiders," Katara blood bends the captain of the ship and there's no mention of whether or not there is a full moon.

I'm fairly sure the moon is shown at several points in that episode to emphasise that it is, in fact, a full moon.

[Highlord Laan]

No. There should be a definitive lack of magic in Steampunk.

I wouldn't go quite that far. Autocthonians from Exalted is certainly a steampunk setting, and it's got magic everywhere.

That said, I wouldn't out the Fire Nation as. Steampunk. They're just a industrialized nation that has the shortcut of not needing coal mines or vast forests to power everything.

[Koolaidkirby]

Why is it that Waterbenders, Earthbenders and Windbenders all seem to need to have the actual element in front of them to manipulate, while Firebenders apparently just need a little flame to get everything started?

Oh, and why wouldn't Waterbenders manipulate the water inside, say, a Firebender they're fighting with, since a human body is over 75% water... "for the win"...?

According to Hama in the episode "The Puppetmaster" in season 3 of Avatar, the water benders need a full moon to blood bend, although in the episode "The Southern Raiders," Katara blood bends the captain of the ship and there's no mention of whether or not there is a full moon. It could be either that Katara is just a lot more powerful than Hama is, so she can do it when she wants or that there was a full moon in that episode.

And I'm pretty sure that blood bending is supposed to be a sort of "ultimate waterbending technique" in the same vein as metal bending is for earth benders, or bluefire/lighting is for firebenders.

[SAMAS]

I'm pretty sure steam power ironclads falls under realistic. Also most steam punk requires burning coal or wood- not using magic to heat the water. I'd classify it as magitech.

They use Firebending to light the fire. It's still Coal burning.

I'm kind of on the fence about it being Steampunk, though. It's not "Classic" Steampunk for sure, but it still carries a lot of elements, such as the tanks, zepplins and especially the Drill.

[Highlord Laan]

And I'm pretty sure that blood bending is supposed to be a sort of "ultimate waterbending technique" in the same vein as metal bending is for earth benders, or bluefire/lighting is for firebenders.

I've always wondered what the penultimate bending technique was supposed to be for Air. Maybe they share Lightning with the Firebenders?

[Themightytom]

Additionally, HOW the F do the Firebenders win over waterbenders? That defies logic

Fire evaporates water. And fire is quite useful in forging and metal working.

Water douses fire, the two are thematic counterpoints, but as displayed in the show waterbenders can make water freeze and vapor condense. Somehow waterbenders can control temperature, how is fire a problem for them? Especially when they can immobilize their opponents in ice so they can't move?

The two styles seem to control temperature, so the tie goes to... um the waterbenders who get super powers every full moon rather than waiting 100 years for a comet.

Logistically, How did the Firenavy achieve naval superiority in the first place??? Even the world of the Avatar seems to have enough ocean that water power should dominate.

[Bedlam]

[quote="Themightytom"]Logistically, How did the Firenavy achieve naval superiority in the first place??? Even the world of the Avatar seems to have enough ocean that water power should dominate.[quote]

I havent seen to much of the series but could it be that the Fire nation was just more organised / unified than the Water benders? The Fire nation (as the name suggests) seems to be a single force where as the water benders are split into atleast 2 (and probably in the past more) different tribes. One on one the fire benders might have lost out against a water naval force but if they threw their entire force against one tribe at a time they might have worn them down until there were to few left to counter then.

[Themightytom]

Logistically, How did the Firenavy achieve naval superiority in the first place??? Even the world of the Avatar seems to have enough ocean that water power should dominate.

I havent seen to much of the series but could it be that the Fire nation was just more organised / unified than the Water benders? The Fire nation (as the name suggests) seems to be a single force where as the water benders are split into atleast 2 (and probably in the past more) different tribes. One on one the fire benders might have lost out against a water naval force but if they threw their entire force against one tribe at a time they might have worn them down until there were to few left to counter then.

Good point, the water nation has at least one major city in the north pole, but the south pole consists of mostly villages seemingly on icebergs. (Although they seem to find wood when they need it.)
I had interpreted that as what was left after a massive war, but it could be the nature of waterbenders that they aren't civilization builders, and the comparatively industrialized fire nation wore them out quickly. There's an episode with an elderly water bender where she describes persistent wave after wave of fire benders attacking and imprisoning water bending until there were too few to put up any real fight. All the attacks were firebenders attacking on land, which implies they passed through whatever naval forces there were, and if the waterbenders aren't industrailized, the "Navy" might have been like one boat per village with no real coordination until it was too late.

[Samuel]

The fire nation is an industrial power that occupies the temperate regions of the planet. Needless to say it has a ton of men and material. The water tribes I remember seeing have been in the poles and the jungles.

[Elaro]

Do they have a giant mechanical difference engine? No? I rest my case. They are very close, though, and they do live in a world where steampunk is possible.

Look at the Mechanist in the Northern Air Temple. That's steampunk, right there.

[Erik von Nein]

Waterbender ships were simple skiffs made from driftwood and animal hides. Even when they were defending the water-way to the Earth Kingdom capital they were never engaging the Fire Navy in open combat, merely using mines that would foul up Fire Navy propellers and various other such things.

The Fire Nation largely left the Northern Water Tribe alone, but the Southern Tribe was hammered for a year or more, and they weren't nearly as large as the Northern Water Tribe. It seemed like the Fire Nation was much more interested in conquering the Earth Kingdom, probably because the Earth Kingdom actually had resources worth taking.

It wasn't until the events at the end of season 1 that the Fire Nation attacked the Northern Water Tribe (if they had before then they hadn't attempted again for something like 40 years if I remember Sokka's comments about the Fire Navy uniforms correctly). When they did they attacked with the force you see in the above picture (and then some, it panned out quite far). At that, the main strategy called for removing the Moon Spirit.

[OmegaChief]

Indeed, it seems to be a simple case of numbers.

Even a very powerful opponent can be worn down by a much larger army, and given the reletive size of the Fire nation (One small continent with many cities and several islands of varying size) compared to the Water Tribes (Only one city, with the southern tribe being reduced to a single village, and the Foggy Swampers being all but unkown and again lacking numbers).

We are shown in the show that waterbenders were quite capable of immobilizing a Fire Nation ship in ice, but it took a lot of them some time to do, and as they lacked any other weapons that could take out Ironclad warships they didn't have many options.