Man Arrested For Being Naked In Own Kitchen

[Simon_Jester]

There are places where groping is less socially acceptable than in others, so the rates probably vary somewhat (just as the rate of everything else varies across cultures). But it's probably higher than most of the nongroping males would care to admit.

Keep in mind, though, that if we talk about 50% of all women being groped when they didn't want to be, that's over a lifetime; they have been groped at least once. That means that the overall rate is considerably lower: something like 2 to 5% of all women per year, maybe. Which is why in a place like Japan, I expect that the "has ever been groped" rate is close to 100%...

[salm]

Uhh yeah. If a girl goes through a crowded area like street fair, club, etc... she can pretty much bet on being groped. It happens so much that some girls just let it happen because it is impossible to do anything about it. So I definitely can see 1/3 1/2 of all women having been sexually assaulted if that includes being groped unwanted.

Where do you live? I am not trying to imply anything by that question, but what you describe is absolutely unbelievable to me.

Eh, being groped is nothing unusual. I´d think that the grope rate for women is rather close to 100%. I mean, even most men will get groped here and there? Have you never been groped in a club? Have you ever been to a gay bar? Just go to a gay bar and you´ll be groped into the next millenium.
That said, getting groped is more of "meh" thing and lumping it into the same category as rape is useless and idiotic.

[Bounty]

Eh, being groped is nothing unusual.

It may not be in the environment where you like to spend your time, but in public - yes it is. I've gone to my share of crowded venues in the past and neither me or the women I were with were ever groped (well, I was groped once, but that was someone who couldn't tell his friend from a stranger). The idea that groping is normal or - god forbid - something that should just be accepted is appalling.

lumping it into the same category as rape is useless and idiotic.

The severity isn't anywhere near that of rape but it is most definitely in the same category. Taking sexual advantage from someone against their will comes in many flavours and levels of intrusiveness; rape is probably the worst and groping is somewhere farther down the totem pole, but just because it's less bad doesn't make it right.

[salm]

Eh, being groped is nothing unusual.

It may not be in the environment where you like to spend your time, but in public - yes it is. I've gone to my share of crowded venues in the past and neither me or the women I were with were ever groped (well, I was groped once, but that was someone who couldn't tell his friend from a stranger). The idea that groping is normal or - god forbid - something that should just be accepted is appalling.

Obvious misunderstanding. I don´t promote groping or find it morally acceptable to grope people. Actually i find it rather sad that some people seem to have an urge to do it. With "nothing unusual" i meant "nothing uncommon".

You´re a guy, so you´re not going to get groped as much as women. I never said that guys get regularely groped in public either. However, it´s not that it´s unheard of to get groped in clubs. Especially gay clubs/bars or clubs that have a high percentage of gay guests.

The severity isn't anywhere near that of rape but it is most definitely in the same category. Taking sexual advantage from someone against their will comes in many flavours and levels of intrusiveness; rape is probably the worst and groping is somewhere farther down the totem pole, but just because it's less bad doesn't make it right.

I´d say that it´s an entirely different category because rape scars people for life while groping annoys people for two minutes. Therefore it´s useless to claim that 1/3rd or whatever the number in the current statistic is of all women have been sexually assaulted at least once when many of the cases are simple groping.
A third of all women being raped would be a horrifying number. A third of all women being groped is pretty much a non issue. I mean, honstly, from my perspective getting groped is not worse than getting a couple of bruises in a soccer match. But, eh, maybe i´m wrong an maybe most people do feel getting groped is an ultra horrible experience.

Even if you find groping worse than i do, rape is so much worse that it´s simply useless to lump them together.
Of course you can allways put things in the same category if you make the category broad enough. But it tends to be useless as soon as a certain degree of broadness has been reached.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Therefore it´s useless to claim that 1/3rd or whatever the number in the current statistic is of all women have been sexually assaulted at least once when many of the cases are simple groping.
A third of all women being raped would be a horrifying number.

Well it is pretty close to that number... Around a 1/4th...

I think it is probably useful to differentiate between the sort of annoying grope that happens in a gay bar when a random gay guy just says the word "RESPECT!" and grabs a girls boobs, and the sort of assaulting exploitative groping that happens on a subway car when a woman cannot escape.

[salm]

Therefore it´s useless to claim that 1/3rd or whatever the number in the current statistic is of all women have been sexually assaulted at least once when many of the cases are simple groping.
A third of all women being raped would be a horrifying number.

Well it is pretty close to that number... Around a 1/4th...

I think it is probably useful to differentiate between the sort of annoying grope that happens in a gay bar when a random gay guy just says the word "RESPECT!" and grabs a girls boobs, and the sort of assaulting exploitative groping that happens on a subway car when a woman cannot escape.

I´m not talking about gay men groping girls. I´m talking about gay men groping guys. This has happened quite often when i´ve been to gay bars/clubs or clubs with a large gay audience. Is that not exploitative? However, i´ve never been able to see more than a minor annoyance in it. Rape on the other hand is a huge crime, so i don´t see how it makes sense to lump rape together with any kind of groping.
That´s like making a statistic saying that 100% of people have been injured at least once in a life time and then stating that a scrape on your knee from your last slide to second base counts as an injury.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Is that not exploitative? However, i´ve never been able to see more than a minor annoyance in it.

No. It is not. It is a gay thing

Seriously that is an accepted social convention for signaling sexual interest or casual affection. It is not an attempt to victimize you. That is the difference. Someone groping someone else in a train car is doing it because the other person has no means of stopping them because they are crowded in. A gay guy in a gay bar does it because he likes the person and can reasonably expect a positive response. That same person would not perform that action on a train. That you are a straight guy and get annoyed is irrelevant. You are the proverbial stranger in a strange land.

In Sum: It is all about the context

I am also not defending the Lumping. I definitely at least think a distinction needs to be made about the type of grope or any activity that may meet the legal definition of such a crime, but is not thought of that way by the "victim". Oh and sexual assault and rape are two different crimes... Or rather, rape is a subset of sexual assault that carries with it a different criminal charge.

[Themightytom]

I´m not talking about gay men groping girls. I´m talking about gay men groping guys. This has happened quite often when i´ve been to gay bars/clubs or clubs with a large gay audience. Is that not exploitative? However, i´ve never been able to see more than a minor annoyance in it. Rape on the other hand is a huge crime, so i don´t see how it makes sense to lump rape together with any kind of groping.
That´s like making a statistic saying that 100% of people have been injured at least once in a life time and then stating that a scrape on your knee from your last slide to second base counts as an injury.

ummm I might ahve walked into a gay bar by accident once with friends. And been groped. And decided to let the guy buy me a beer before I left, even though I clarified I was straighter than a one dimensial arrow.

Moving through crowds not so much, guys don't get that kind of attention I don't think. One of our drunk older board members decided check out my gear on Saturday though at an agency fudnraiser, so I awkward turtled my way out of there.

[salm]

Is that not exploitative? However, i´ve never been able to see more than a minor annoyance in it.

No. It is not. It is a gay thing

Seriously that is an accepted social convention for signaling sexual interest or casual affection. It is not an attempt to victimize you. That is the difference. Someone groping someone else in a train car is doing it because the other person has no means of stopping them because they are crowded in. A gay guy in a gay bar does it because he likes the person and can reasonably expect a positive response. That same person would not perform that action on a train. That you are a straight guy and get annoyed is irrelevant. You are the proverbial stranger in a strange land.
In Sum: It is all about the context

Ok, good point.

I am also not defending the Lumping. I definitely at least think a distinction needs to be made about the type of grope or any activity that may meet the legal definition of such a crime, but is not thought of that way by the "victim". Oh and sexual assault and rape are two different crimes... Or rather, rape is a subset of sexual assault that carries with it a different criminal charge.

Hmm... well there allready is a distinction between the type of grope if it´s not thought of that by the victim. Did you mean to say "offender" instead of "victim"?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Hmm... well there allready is a distinction between the type of grope if it´s not thought of that by the victim. Did you mean to say "offender" instead of "victim"?

No, I phrased it awkwardly. The stats on rape and sexual assault are created by survey. They ask the respondent a list of questions that ask about sexual encounters and other such things. Some of those questions are about things that meet the legal definition of sexual assault or rape such as "Have you ever woke up next to someone you do not remember having sex with?" or "Have you ever had sexual intercourse while intoxicated" or "have you ever been groped in a crowded place when not engaging in other consensual sexual activity?". They have to do this because the rate of reporting for sex offenses is often in the single digits. They are correcting for what is likely an order of magnitude or more underestimation. However the method they use, because the questions do not take social context of the perception of the respondent into account lead to an over-estimation.

For example: If you have sex while intoxicated the person who had sex with you (to the extent that they were not intoxicated) is legally guilty of rape. The reasoning is that when intoxicated you are not able to make informed decisions and the decision to become incapacitated does not give a sober person free license to your body.

However you might be dating the person, even married to them. You might have liked the person and legitimately consented and fucked around the next day. These situations give what is effectively "post facto" consent. They invalidate the proposition that a rape occurred.