Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Basically, a bunch of hackers stole and released a large amount of correspondence from climate scientists:
New York Times wrote: Hacked E-Mail Is New Fodder for Climate Dispute
By ANDREW C. REVKIN

Hundreds of private e-mail messages and documents hacked from a computer server at a British university are causing a stir among global warming skeptics, who say they show that climate scientists conspired to overstate the case for a human influence on climate change.

The e-mail messages, attributed to prominent American and British climate researchers, include discussions of scientific data and whether it should be released, exchanges about how best to combat the arguments of skeptics, and casual comments — in some cases derisive — about specific people known for their skeptical views. Drafts of scientific papers and a photo collage that portrays climate skeptics on an ice floe were also among the hacked data, some of which dates back 13 years.

In one e-mail exchange, a scientist writes of using a statistical “trick” in a chart illustrating a recent sharp warming trend. In another, a scientist refers to climate skeptics as “idiots.”

Some skeptics asserted Friday that the correspondence revealed an effort to withhold scientific information. “This is not a smoking gun; this is a mushroom cloud,” said Patrick J. Michaels, a climatologist who has long faulted evidence pointing to human-driven warming and is criticized in the documents.

Some of the correspondence portrays the scientists as feeling under siege by the skeptics’ camp and worried that any stray comment or data glitch could be turned against them.

The evidence pointing to a growing human contribution to global warming is so widely accepted that the hacked material is unlikely to erode the overall argument. However, the documents will undoubtedly raise questions about the quality of research on some specific questions and the actions of some scientists.

In several e-mail exchanges, Kevin Trenberth, a climatologist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, and other scientists discuss gaps in understanding of recent variations in temperature. Skeptic Web sites pointed out one line in particular: “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t,” Dr. Trenberth wrote.

The cache of e-mail messages also includes references to journalists, including this reporter, and queries from journalists related to articles they were reporting.

Officials at the University of East Anglia confirmed in a statement on Friday that files had been stolen from a university server and that the police had been brought in to investigate the breach. They added, however, that they could not confirm that all the material circulating on the Internet was authentic.

But several scientists and others contacted by The New York Times confirmed that they were the authors or recipients of specific e-mail messages included in the file. The revelations are bound to inflame the public debate as hundreds of negotiators prepare to negotiate an international climate accord at meetings in Copenhagen next month, and at least one scientist speculated that the timing was not coincidental.

Dr. Trenberth said Friday that he was appalled at the release of the e-mail messages.

But he added that he thought the revelations might backfire against climate skeptics. He said that he thought that the messages showed “the integrity of scientists.” Still, some of the comments might lend themselves to being interpreted as sinister.

In a 1999 e-mail exchange about charts showing climate patterns over the last two millenniums, Phil Jones, a longtime climate researcher at the East Anglia Climate Research Unit, said he had used a “trick” employed by another scientist, Michael Mann, to “hide the decline” in temperatures.

Dr. Mann, a professor at Pennsylvania State University, confirmed in an interview that the e-mail message was real. He said the choice of words by his colleague was poor but noted that scientists often used the word “trick” to refer to a good way to solve a problem, “and not something secret.”

At issue were sets of data, both employed in two studies. One data set showed long-term temperature effects on tree rings; the other, thermometer readings for the past 100 years.

Through the last century, tree rings and thermometers show a consistent rise in temperature until 1960, when some tree rings, for unknown reasons, no longer show that rise, while the thermometers continue to do so until the present.

Dr. Mann explained that the reliability of the tree-ring data was called into question, so they were no longer used to track temperature fluctuations. But he said dropping the use of the tree rings was never something that was hidden, and had been in the scientific literature for more than a decade. “It sounds incriminating, but when you look at what you’re talking about, there’s nothing there,” Dr. Mann said.

In addition, other independent but indirect measurements of temperature fluctuations in the studies broadly agreed with the thermometer data showing rising temperatures.

Dr. Jones, writing in an e-mail message, declined to be interviewed.

Stephen McIntyre, a blogger who on his Web site, climateaudit.org, has for years been challenging data used to chart climate patterns, and who came in for heated criticism in some e-mail messages, called the revelations “quite breathtaking.”

But several scientists whose names appear in the e-mail messages said they merely revealed that scientists were human, and did nothing to undercut the body of research on global warming. “Science doesn’t work because we’re all nice,” said Gavin A. Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA whose e-mail exchanges with colleagues over a variety of climate studies were in the cache. “Newton may have been an ass, but the theory of gravity still works.”

He said the breach at the University of East Anglia was discovered after hackers who had gained access to the correspondence sought Tuesday to hack into a different server supporting realclimate.org, a blog unrelated to NASA that he runs with several other scientists pressing the case that global warming is true.

The intruders sought to create a mock blog post there and to upload the full batch of files from Britain. That effort was thwarted, Dr. Schmidt said, and scientists immediately notified colleagues at the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit. The first posts that revealed details from the files appeared Thursday at The Air Vent, a Web site devoted to skeptics’ arguments.

At first, said Dr. Michaels, the climatologist who has faulted some of the science of the global warming consensus, his instinct was to ignore the correspondence as “just the way scientists talk.”

But on Friday, he said that after reading more deeply, he felt that some exchanges reflected an effort to block the release of data for independent review.

He said some messages mused about discrediting him by challenging the veracity of his doctoral dissertation at the University of Wisconsin by claiming he knew his research was wrong. “This shows these are people willing to bend rules and go after other people’s reputations in very serious ways,” he said.

Spencer R. Weart, a physicist and historian who is charting the course of research on global warming, said the hacked material would serve as “great material for historians.”
Here's RealClimate.org's response-
RealClimate.org wrote:
As many of you will be aware, a large number of emails from the University of East Anglia webmail server were hacked recently (Despite some confusion generated by Anthony Watts, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Hadley Centre which is a completely separate institution). As people are also no doubt aware the breaking into of computers and releasing private information is illegal, and regardless of how they were obtained, posting private correspondence without permission is unethical. We therefore aren’t going to post any of the emails here. We were made aware of the existence of this archive last Tuesday morning when the hackers attempted to upload it to RealClimate, and we notified CRU of their possible security breach later that day.

Nonetheless, these emails (a presumably careful selection of (possibly edited?) correspondence dating back to 1996 and as recently as Nov 12) are being widely circulated, and therefore require some comment. Some of them involve people here (and the archive includes the first RealClimate email we ever sent out to colleagues) and include discussions we’ve had with the CRU folk on topics related to the surface temperature record and some paleo-related issues, mainly to ensure that posting were accurate.

Since emails are normally intended to be private, people writing them are, shall we say, somewhat freer in expressing themselves than they would in a public statement. For instance, we are sure it comes as no shock to know that many scientists do not hold Steve McIntyre in high regard. Nor that a large group of them thought that the Soon and Baliunas (2003), Douglass et al (2008) or McClean et al (2009) papers were not very good (to say the least) and should not have been published. These sentiments have been made abundantly clear in the literature (though possibly less bluntly).

More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.

Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking.

It’s obvious that the noise-generating components of the blogosphere will generate a lot of noise about this. but it’s important to remember that science doesn’t work because people are polite at all times. Gravity isn’t a useful theory because Newton was a nice person. QED isn’t powerful because Feynman was respectful of other people around him. Science works because different groups go about trying to find the best approximations of the truth, and are generally very competitive about that. That the same scientists can still all agree on the wording of an IPCC chapter for instance is thus even more remarkable.

No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

The timing of this particular episode is probably not coincidental. But if cherry-picked out-of-context phrases from stolen personal emails is the only response to the weight of the scientific evidence for the human influence on climate change, then there probably isn’t much to it.

There are of course lessons to be learned. Clearly no-one would have gone to this trouble if the academic object of study was the mating habits of European butterflies. That community’s internal discussions are probably safe from the public eye. But it is important to remember that emails do seem to exist forever, and that there is always a chance that they will be inadvertently released. Most people do not act as if this is true, but they probably should.

It is tempting to point fingers and declare that people should not have been so open with their thoughts, but who amongst us would really be happy to have all of their email made public?

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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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The right wing blogs are going apeshit over this, they're all saying this is clear proof that global warming is fake, and it's some commie greenie conspiracy to ruin America and some other shit like that. They've been doing a victory dance since these emails were leaked and saying how it's time to get back on to driving their SUVs and drilling for more oil.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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Hell, they've got the right-wing trolls coming out of the woodwork and saying that over in the comments at Realclimate. Most of it seems to center around the part Realclimate was responding, the other part being how they were deleting e-mails and the like.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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aerius wrote:The right wing blogs are going apeshit over this, they're all saying this is clear proof that global warming is fake, and it's some commie greenie conspiracy to ruin America and some other shit like that. They've been doing a victory dance since these emails were leaked and saying how it's time to get back on to driving their SUVs and drilling for more oil.
They're never particularly creative with the rhetoric. I've been hearing much the same thing, about how it's proof that global warming was a lie perpetuated by a bunch of scientists to get more research grants as part of a greater conspiracy by The Communists! like Al Gore and others in the UN to wipe out American goodness, capitalism, etc.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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aerius wrote:The right wing blogs are going apeshit over this, they're all saying this is clear proof that global warming is fake, and it's some commie greenie conspiracy to ruin America and some other shit like that. They've been doing a victory dance since these emails were leaked and saying how it's time to get back on to driving their SUVs and drilling for more oil.
Yep. And when the west and east coast megalopolises drown from sea-level rise, they'll probably claim that's part of the Conspiracy to fake climate change.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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Yep. And when the west and east coast megalopolises drown from sea-level rise, they'll probably claim that's part of the Conspiracy to fake climate change.
they may not have a problem that, it's only evil liberals living in in the big cities on the coasts after all, not the Heartland.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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Well now that the secret is out, obviously we need to reprogram our Climate Change Doom Machine to directly target the right wing heartland.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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*yawn*

These people are going to go wild when they hear of what biologists and geologists think of creationism. Ohz noz! The scientists are meanies!

Call me when it's shown that scientists faked the data, or get out.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by cosmicalstorm »

It seems to me that the climate change debate is often used as a red herring to divert the attention away from the real problem. Namely the fact that the human specie is currently destroying every ecological system that sustains our civilization.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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cosmicalstorm wrote:It seems to me that the climate change debate is often used as a red herring to divert the attention away from the real problem. Namely the fact that the human specie is currently destroying every ecological system that sustains our civilization.
Yeah, but changing the climate of the planet doesn't help for biodiversity survival either. It shouldn't be the main thing, but it was choosen because it is huge and doesn't require such extreme lifestyle changes. It should have been easy :banghead:
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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Patrick Degan wrote:
aerius wrote:The right wing blogs are going apeshit over this, they're all saying this is clear proof that global warming is fake, and it's some commie greenie conspiracy to ruin America and some other shit like that. They've been doing a victory dance since these emails were leaked and saying how it's time to get back on to driving their SUVs and drilling for more oil.
Yep. And when the west and east coast megalopolises drown from sea-level rise, they'll probably claim that's part of the Conspiracy to fake climate change.
Nah, it'll just be an excuse for crazy right-wing survivalists like me to go Kevin Costner.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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On the word trick in science: my professors, all of whom do research, use the word "trick" all the time to describe a clever solution to a problem. For example, in my statistical mechanics class, my professor described the process of taking the derivative of an ugly function by breaking the derivative into the product of several derivatives that are individually easy to solve. He referred to this as a "trick", a common phrase. Clearly, the professor was letting us into a dark secret of doing math that the Scientific Community Doesn't Want You To Know.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by Serafina »

Gil Hamilton wrote:On the word trick in science: my professors, all of whom do research, use the word "trick" all the time to describe a clever solution to a problem. For example, in my statistical mechanics class, my professor described the process of taking the derivative of an ugly function by breaking the derivative into the product of several derivatives that are individually easy to solve. He referred to this as a "trick", a common phrase. Clearly, the professor was letting us into a dark secret of doing math that the Scientific Community Doesn't Want You To Know.
Same in (other) mathematics - my math teacher always refered to simple/easy soltutions as "tricks".
Happend in physics/chemistry classes, too.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

aerius wrote:The right wing blogs are going apeshit over this, they're all saying this is clear proof that global warming is fake, and it's some commie greenie conspiracy to ruin America and some other shit like that. They've been doing a victory dance since these emails were leaked and saying how it's time to get back on to driving their SUVs and drilling for more oil.
They are welcome to do so. There's not enough of the stuff (crude oil) left to make a big difference. The real problems for climate change are coal, and ironically, natural gas despite its relatively smaller CO2 production . The remaining reserves of those are big enough that unless good substitutes are found very soon, a very large amount of CO2 could be released from them to the atmosphere. The temptation to use them will be great once the effects of peak oil are fully felt.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by Steel »

Even if this is evidence of a conspiracy among the academics involved, they're from UEA :lol: it means nothing about the actual reality anyway!
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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Some skeptics asserted Friday that the correspondence revealed an effort to withhold scientific information. “This is not a smoking gun; this is a mushroom cloud,” said Patrick J. Michaels
Holy mackerel. Don't be paranoid or anything.
Some of the correspondence portrays the scientists as feeling under siege by the skeptics’ camp and worried that any stray comment or data glitch could be turned against them.
Is that so terrible? Of course they're under siege, and the right wing folks frequently do ignore the huge body of evidence and use any little thing against scientists that they can find. Just like in the evolution "debate." That climatologists are worried about being challenged by skeptics is no surprise--I imagine, like many educated people, they fear that with all the squabbling, by the time global warming is self-evident and no more convincing is necessary, it will be too late.
“The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t,” Dr. Trenberth wrote.
Uh... you can't? I thought climatologists already made it clear that global temperature changes occur gradually, in waves, and can only be measured with certainty after they've already happened, which takes many years. However, there's still a deal of evidence that the Earth has grown significantly warmer in the last several decades.
I mean, come on. Do the climate-change skeptics really expect us to believe that all of their e-mails are sweet and nice and would never hurt anyone's feelings?
Oh yeah, and one more thing--
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Since when was Newton an ass?? Yes, he was a bit peculiar, and I have no fondness for fanatics of any religion, but the only bad thing I ever heard about him was that he didn't do anything in Parliament (except complain about how cold his room was). And maybe that's not so bad. As far as I know, Parliament has, in the past, been accused of not doing very much. Even by W.S. Gilbert. But that's beside the point.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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Since when was Newton an ass?? Yes, he was a bit peculiar, and I have no fondness for fanatics of any religion, but the only bad thing I ever heard about him was that he didn't do anything in Parliament (except complain about how cold his room was). And maybe that's not so bad. As far as I know, Parliament has, in the past, been accused of not doing very much. Even by W.S. Gilbert. But that's beside the point.
We can start with the fight involving Calculus and work our way up from there.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

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Gwah! You know I don't know a lot about climatology, I only know a little about statistics, but I do know programming, databases, and how you develop and debug programs that process large databases. As a result reading this bunch of whackadoodles is acutely painful.

Seriously they have no idea how large computer programs are debugged and how large databases are processed, the kind of errors this scientist found are normal when you start to do a debug. Yes ladies and gentlemen! Getting results that are completely wrong is perfectly normal, finding code that makes you go "What did this idiot think of!" (even if ten seconds later you remember "Oh wait I *am* that idiot") is perfectly normal! These people seem to think that programs to process databases, especially the kind you have to write yourself, are supposed to leap out fully formed like Athena from the head of Jove! But wait! There's more! They seem to think that open and frank discussion about how to debug a program is somehow proof of incompetence or a conspiracy!

You know I did, for a moment, wonder if there was something to this whole "smoking gun!" Thing, that is untill I saw these sub-morons start to insult the intelligence and skill of computer scientists for doing their job! It's frigging ludicrous! It's like looking at Michelangelo doing a painting or a sculpture and then mocking him for not getting the first drafts just right! But will they shot up? No! They keep on talking to make sure that everyone can see that they have absolutely no frigging *clue* what they're talking about!

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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by Norseman »

Not that I'm comparing the guy they're discussing to Michelangelo ;) I got a little too excited and got into hyperbole, but the point stands: In a large project involving a lot of programming and large databases you would *expect* serious teething problems or outright screwups. The fact that these are being discussed and corrected in an open and frank manner is a *good thing*.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Norseman wrote:Not that I'm comparing the guy they're discussing to Michelangelo ;) I got a little too excited and got into hyperbole, but the point stands: In a large project involving a lot of programming and large databases you would *expect* serious teething problems or outright screwups. The fact that these are being discussed and corrected in an open and frank manner is a *good thing*.
I'm getting fairly into the life of a researcher scientist and EVERYTHING has teething problems and outright screw ups in science. Working in a research lab is exploratory. If we knew ahead of time all the answers and could churn out science the first go, we wouldn't NEED to do research. There are alot of face slapping moments involved in such things where scientists realize that they've been barking up the wrong tree for the last six months and many thousands of dollars of grant money later and their project needs to go back and start over.

What saves you is discussion and correction with your fellows. It's not just a good thing, it's entirely necessary, because people will often get to the point where things have gone pear shaped in their project and they need to have a good talk with some colleagues to get their head back in order. Just the nature of the beast, but its something that the "critics" who are going on about this being a smoking gun don't understand because they've never been involved in the process at all.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by gizmojumpjet »

It would be easier to trust these people if we didn't have emails in which they threaten to delete data rather than turn it over to a FOIA request and if the data hadn't subsequently wound up getting deleted when subjected to a FOIA request.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

gizmojumpjet wrote:It would be easier to trust these people if we didn't have emails in which they threaten to delete data rather than turn it over to a FOIA request and if the data hadn't subsequently wound up getting deleted when subjected to a FOIA request.
Do you have a reference for that claim so it can be evaluated? I dont want to comb through other people's emails. Public documents would be nice.

That said, depending on the scientist, the freedom of information act may not apply, and data may get deleted because it is not useful or a hard drive crashed.
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by gizmojumpjet »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Do you have a reference for that claim so it can be evaluated? I dont want to comb through other people's emails. Public documents would be nice.
Well this is the best I can do at the moment. Link to the email:
Mike,
I presume congratulations are in order - so congrats etc !
Just sent loads of station data to Scott. Make sure he documents everything better
this time ! And don't leave stuff lying around on ftp sites - you never know who is
trawling
them. The two MMs have been after the CRU station data for years. If they ever hear
there
is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I'll delete the file rather than
send
to anyone.
Does your similar act in the US force you to respond to enquiries within
20 days? - our does ! The UK works on precedents, so the first request will test it.
We also
have a data protection act, which I will hide behind.
Statement on the missing data, originally posted here (dead link) and easily verifiable by Googling.
We are not in a position to supply data for a particular country not covered by the example agreements referred to earlier, as we have never had sufficient resources to keep track of the exact source of each individual monthly value. Since the 1980s, we have merged the data we have received into existing series or begun new ones, so it is impossible to say if all stations within a particular country or if all of an individual record should be freely available. Data storage availability in the 1980s meant that we were not able to keep the multiple sources for some sites, only the station series after adjustment for homogeneity issues. We, therefore, do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (i.e. quality controlled and homogenized) data.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:That said, depending on the scientist, the freedom of information act may not apply, and data may get deleted because it is not useful or a hard drive crashed.
I find it hard to believe that he would be contemplating deleting the data if it was subjected to a FOIA request if it wasn't actually subject to an FOIA request. And sure, a hard drive might have crashed, or his dog might have eaten it. Who knows, right?
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Alyrium Denryle
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Mike,
I presume congratulations are in order - so congrats etc !
Just sent loads of station data to Scott. Make sure he documents everything better
this time ! And don't leave stuff lying around on ftp sites - you never know who is
trawling
them. The two MMs have been after the CRU station data for years. If they ever hear
there
is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I'll delete the file rather than
send
to anyone. Does your similar act in the US force you to respond to enquiries within
20 days? - our does ! The UK works on precedents, so the first request will test it.
We also
have a data protection act, which I will hide behind.
Makes sense. Imagine being a scientist who is competing with others. Someone submits a freedom of information act request for your data. Someone could scoop you, steal your data, etc. This is not someone coming to you as a collaborator wanting to cooperate with you on a project. This is someone trying to use legal force to rip the data from your hands.

I would hide behind a data protection act and would spitefully threaten to delete it rather than allow it to be stolen too.

I find it hard to believe that he would be contemplating deleting the data if it was subjected to a FOIA request if it wasn't actually subject to an FOIA request. And sure, a hard drive might have crashed, or his dog might have eaten it. Who knows, right?
Read the statement
We are not in a position to supply data for a particular country not covered by the example agreements referred to earlier, as we have never had sufficient resources to keep track of the exact source of each individual monthly value. Since the 1980s, we have merged the data we have received into existing series or begun new ones, so it is impossible to say if all stations within a particular country or if all of an individual record should be freely available. Data storage availability in the 1980s meant that we were not able to keep the multiple sources for some sites, only the station series after adjustment for homogeneity issues. We, therefore, do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (i.e. quality controlled and homogenized) data.
They merged databases and no longer have the raw data that was requested. It was not "deleted" because of the request. Someone requested data that had not existed for a while.
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gizmojumpjet
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Re: Hacked E-mails from Climate Scientists released

Post by gizmojumpjet »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Makes sense. Imagine being a scientist who is competing with others. Someone submits a freedom of information act request for your data. Someone could scoop you, steal your data, etc. This is not someone coming to you as a collaborator wanting to cooperate with you on a project. This is someone trying to use legal force to rip the data from your hands.

I would hide behind a data protection act and would spitefully threaten to delete it rather than allow it to be stolen too.
So you'd commit a crime rather than comply with the law and turn your data over to a FOIA request?
They merged databases and no longer have the raw data that was requested. It was not "deleted" because of the request. Someone requested data that had not existed for a while.
You're assuming the statement is truthful. Considering the threat to delete data rather than submitting to the law and answering a FOIA request, the statement is dubious. People who threaten to violate the law and delete data subject to a FOIA request are no longer afforded the benefit of the doubt.
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