SDN World 3 Commentary Thread I

[Steve]

You get 5 Armored Brigades and half of your infantry divisions have 20 tanks attached.

[K. A. Pital]

The obvious solution would have been something like: "~200 miles SW of Ayan, Manchurian Border"

Sure, I'll retcon that. You could've asked me to, because you know the intent was to shoot at your border NOT shoot at something... something.

That said, Stas, given you do apparently have recognition from Germany in this game

I don't. I am working towards one though. I asked all or most my neighbors on recognition and neither of them presumed the Soviet government to be recognized outright. I didn't know Beowulf would make a fuss out of this subject.

As such, why not give you recognition (and don't give any BS about how China didn't do recognition, given that they were in turmoil for most of the early 20th century).

Maybe because we are advocating, as a state, the violent overthrow of capitalist governments, and that especially concerns regressive ones like your monarchy? No? Even Byzantium which has a fair share of ties with Russia, didn't just go "OH, OKAY. We recognize you" but demanded that the USSR stop interfering in it's affairs via communist parties, etc. You didn't do even that.

Moreover, I warned you that relations were not going to be warm when your territorial claims just left me without a single useful pacific port and instead proposed me to build a permafrost railway.

[loomer]

Not to harsh you, Stas, but don't forget that Al-Hawari is visiting the Kremlin for trade and embassy talks. I know you've got a lot on your plate with the war and the wife (is she doing any better?), but I'd like to get that sorted.

[Norade]

Steve mind taking a peek at my OOB and make sure I only have the number of tanks I should have? I think I have it about right, but I'd like to be 100% before declaring my OOB finished.

[Beowulf]

The obvious solution would have been something like: "~200 miles SW of Ayan, Manchurian Border"

Sure, I'll retcon that. You could've asked me to, because you know the intent was to shoot at your border NOT shoot at something... something.

That said, Stas, given you do apparently have recognition from Germany in this game

I don't. I am working towards one though. I asked all or most my neighbors on recognition and neither of them presumed the Soviet government to be recognized outright. I didn't know Beowulf would make a fuss out of this subject.

As such, why not give you recognition (and don't give any BS about how China didn't do recognition, given that they were in turmoil for most of the early 20th century).

Maybe because we are advocating, as a state, the violent overthrow of capitalist governments, and that especially concerns regressive ones like your monarchy? No? Even Byzantium which has a fair share of ties with Russia, didn't just go "OH, OKAY. We recognize you" but demanded that the USSR stop interfering in it's affairs via communist parties, etc. You didn't do even that.

Moreover, I warned you that relations were not going to be warm when your territorial claims just left me without a single useful pacific port and instead proposed me to build a permafrost railway.

Just because I don't like your government is not a reason not to recognize it. If only in the de facto sense, not the de jure sense. I mean not recognizing your government would leave me marching to Moscow to end our war. And that'd take a while.

And because you're advocating the violent overthrow of capitalist governments is why I'm rooting out communists, giving them as fair a trial as they deserve, and then shooting them in the back of the head. The only one claiming I'm shooting Communists out of hand is you.

[K. A. Pital]

Just because I don't like your government is not a reason not to recognize it.

It was, in the case of the USSR. Moreover, the dislike IRL was strong enough to support armed intervention, and supporting just about every single possible enemy of the USSR out there in the 1920s.

I mean not recognizing your government would leave me marching to Moscow to end our war. And that'd take a while.

I'm afraid you will run out of men and the war of attrition will leave a heavy toll on your nation.

The only one claiming I'm shooting Communists out of hand is you.

Well, you claimed I redislocated millions of people, when factually even the 1917 population of the Russian East is enough to support my needs. So we're even. Some accusations flying always help when the goal is to incite some old-fashioned hatred in the population.

[Steve]

Steve mind taking a peek at my OOB and make sure I only have the number of tanks I should have? I think I have it about right, but I'd like to be 100% before declaring my OOB finished.

How big are your divisions? You have more than what your manpower would allow if your divisions are 15,000 men.

Also, you have like 52 divisions of infantry but only 20 have no tank support. It should be 26 without support.

[K. A. Pital]

Not to harsh you, Stas, but don't forget that Al-Hawari is visiting the Kremlin for trade and embassy talks. I know you've got a lot on your plate with the war and the wife (is she doing any better?), but I'd like to get that sorted.

Done.

[Norade]

Based on my force pool I have 840,000 soldiers to work with, which divided by 30,000 gives me, 28 groups of 20 tanks. My OOB as you saw it had over than number with 32 attached tank units. Now I have it down to 28 tank units.

Of course some of my 840,000 is Cavalry and some more is in Artillery so my pure infantry force is less and would only leave me with room for only 18.5 tank attachments. I can use either number. Now all I need to know is which number is the one I should be using.

[K. A. Pital]

Tanks can be attached only to infantry divisions. It makes no sense to attach them to cavalry corps/divisions/regiments....

So, I see China stood up for the Manchurians. That poses a problem. Be aware that each day the USSR spends without a Pacific port, it's hatred grows stronger!! Today we backed off, but tomorrow - "who knows, the storm might run through your lands"... (c)

[Steve]

Yeah, we're probably several years from the "cruiser" tanks meant to operate as cavalry.

[Norade]

Given that I have my 'Infantry' Divisions with 2 Brigades of Infantry and 1 of Cavalry I'd hope my force might realize such tactics a bit sooner. Though I don't expect extra tanks for it.

[Steve]

It's a question of technological capability too, better engines and such to allow you to build a speedy tank that also has okay firepower and/or protection.

[Steve]

Well, Stas, that's what makes the game interesting...

[K. A. Pital]

Yes, it does. I wonder how many Chinese I have to kill to actually win such a war, heh. I mean, China doesn't have it's 500 million folks in this reality, right?

[Steve]

480 Million. They lost some thanks to the SAU conquering Guangzhou and Hainan.

[Norade]

It's a question of technological capability too, better engines and such to allow you to build a speedy tank that also has okay firepower and/or protection.

I know, but given that at strategic speed tanks, cavalry, and infantry move at about the same speed that isn't such an issue. In battle, I'd likely have the tanks operating as a strong center supported by the rest anyway and when things are pinned against the tank then the Cavalry would use their speed to box them in and complete the trap.

So now the last question is do I get 28 groups of tanks or 18.5?

[K. A. Pital]

Well, I think I'll probe the lines.

I don't think China or Manchuria, worse yet, could ever solve my Pacific port problems. So I guess I'll have to solve them by force, either now or waiting while they become stronger. That's unacceptable, so I'll try now and see what happens.

I'm not involving Mongolia in any of this, so I'll take time to re-draft my attack plan. Maybe next year... what time is it now?

I know, but given that at strategic speed tanks, cavalry, and infantry move at about the same speed that isn't such an issue.

If you know of instances of tanks attached to cavalry formations in the 1920s, tell us. I know tanks were attached to ID, but to cavalry divisions?

[Norade]

I know, but given that at strategic speed tanks, cavalry, and infantry move at about the same speed that isn't such an issue.

If you know of instances of tanks attached to cavalry formations in the 1920s, tell us. I know tanks were attached to ID, but to cavalry divisions?

I'm not attaching my tanks to a pure cavalry division but rather to my standard infantry division which, with tanks will look like this.

Infantry Division with Tank Support:
2 Infantry Brigades, 1 Cavalry Brigade, 10 Fiat 3000's, 5 Vickers Medium Mark 2, and 5 Char B1

Not to give away all of my tactics but they might deploy something like this:

-------------------------
---Inf--------------Inf---
-------------------------
----------Tanks----------

Tanks stay hidden if they can and once enemies enter the killing zone cavalry covers up the escape route.

[Ryan Thunder]

Any comments on my ORBAT thus far, btw?

[Beowulf]

It should be roughly April 1925, game time, if the game started on the 1st of Janurary.

[Steve]

Each RL week is about 1.5 IG months, or a bit over 6 days each RL day. So right now we're in the last half of April. April 19th-25th I'd say.

Ryan, take your infantry divisions and divide by 2. That's your answer. I'll let you have armored cars with the cavalry but even light tanks, ATM, would be too slow to operationally work with cavalry.

[Ryan Thunder]

Each RL week is about 1.5 IG months, or a bit over 6 days each RL day. So right now we're in the last half of April. April 19th-25th I'd say.

Ryan, take your infantry divisions and divide by 2. That's your answer. I'll let you have armored cars with the cavalry but even light tanks, ATM, would be too slow to operationally work with cavalry.

I don't have cavalry...

They'd just get gummed up in the jungles, I figure, so I'm sticking to infantry and artillery for the most part.

And as I understand it, my mobilization pool is 20% of my population, or approximately 20 million. My Army Focus is 3, granting me 30% of that for manpower, or 6 million troops. A further 20% of that is my standing army, or 1.2 million troops, with 4.8 million troops in reserve. 1.2 million troops divide neatly into 80 divisions, or 240 total brigades, with 320 (4.8 million / 15 thousand) additional divisions in reserve.

What am I doing wrong?

[K. A. Pital]

You're doing everything allright as far as I see.

And loomer, sure, by all means. Invite Russian architects to build the embassy.

[Norade]

It doesn't make much sense that a jungle nation which is going all infantry because horse get stuck in the jungle would get more tanks, even worse in the jungle. Than a nation with more open space who takes cavalry and artillery which can fight in more open terrain alongside tanks.

I would suggest that we just go by total man power with total non-reserve forces / 45,000 for tech 3, and total non-reserve forces / 30,000 for tech 4. Unless that is what we're doing in which case never mind. I'll just edit more tanks back into my OOB.