EU Books worth reading?

[xammer99]

Could someone recommend a few of the better EU books from post RotJ and pre-Yuzhon Vong setting? I've read the Thrawn books and they weren't bad, but are they the best? Are there others worth reading?

Thanks!

[Bakustra]

Could someone recommend a few of the better EU books from post RotJ and pre-Yuzhon Vong setting? I've read the Thrawn books and they weren't bad, but are they the best? Are there others worth reading?

Thanks!

These are my personal recommendations, but the first three Thrawn books are probably the best overall. The Aaron Allston books and Zahn's Survivor's Quest are pretty good as well, with Hand of Thrawn being slightly worse. Avoid Barbara Hambly, Kevin J. Anderson, and The Crystal Star. Truce at Bakura and Stackpole's books are in the middle, at least in my opinion, but others rate them higher or lower. I never read the Black Fleet Crisis or Corellian trilogies, but people are divided on those too. Same for Tatooine Ghost Really, if you're looking for quality, I would recommend ignoring the post-ROTJ EU apart from Zahn and Allston, and looking for the two Han Solo trilogies, the Lando Calrissian trilogy, and Shadows of the Empire, which I would rate as being in the upper half of the EU.

Stretching the definition of book, Dark Empire is pretty good, but avoid its sequels. Keep in mind that I'm a bit out of date on the EU. If you want some expanded reasoning on my picks, though:

Zahn: Zahn is one of the better writers who's done Star Wars, and for the post-ROTJ era, him and Denning are supposed to be the best. However, Hand of Thrawn is all about how great Thrawn is, so depending on how you liked Thrawn himself, well... Survivor's Quest has less Thrawn-love, except at the very end, and works to set up the prequel-era Outbound Flight, which is pretty good, if Thrawn wank all the way.

Allston: Allston's Wraith Squadron books and Starfighters of Adumar are the most lighthearted parts of the Post-ROTJ EU, but the first one is significantly worse. They also lack any major movie characters until Solo Command, where Han Solo is the main character. These have the lowest Jedi concentration of any of the post-ROTJ EU, by which I mean one in Wraith Squadron, and none in SoA. However, how do you like fighter jockeys? These books are high on fighter combat, low on technical accuracy, but fun to read. They also have far better Imperial characters than most other EU books.

KJA and Hambly: KJA is unable to write novels without ripping other people off, it seems. For the Jedi Academy Trilogy, think if somebody tried to mix'n'match the Thrawn Trilogy with one-half prequels and one-half OT. Now imagine reading it in mediocre prose, and with a sense of trying to outdo everybody else. Darksaber is the same only stupider and with tie-ins to Hambly's snoozefest novels. Seriously CotJ and PoT aren't as bad as some of the EU, especially Crystal Star, or KJA's works, but they're simply boring.

McIntyre and Tyers: These two share the same problem, which Hambly does as well. Their works simply don't have that Star Wars feel. Crystal Star is also dull and full of more WTFery than Truce at Bakura, so that's why I placed Tyers on the same level with Stackpole. To be fair to Tyers, she was actually trying, which is more that can be said about KJA's novels.

Stackpole: Stackpole's books, are, well, he claims to be able to write 400 pages a month on his website, and it kinda shows. His works also feature Corran Horn, who is a figure of intense dislike for many. I simply find him an arrogant prat and wonder why, if Stackpole is aware of Corran's faults, that we must suffer through such an unlikeable narrator for all seven books Stackpole has done for Star Wars. Stackpole's books suffer from some of the same faults as Allston's, and a few of Zahn's, which is why I place him in the third tier. He can write the occasional good action scene, though.

Wolverton: Almost forgot about Courtship of Princess Leia, which tells you much of what you need to know. Also feels oddly unlike Star Wars. Highlights include rancor-riders, hamhanded evil matriarchal and good matriarchal societies, one-dimensional villains at best, Han and Leia's relationship being reset, half the scenes with Luke were written one-handed and the one of the stupidest space battles in Star Wars, matchable only by using the X-Wing: Alliance simulator in its ridiculousness.

Frankly if you find the Thrawn trilogy to be not bad, then you may want to simply ignore the post-ROTJ EU (maybe excepting Allston) and simply read prequel-era and OT-era stuff, but maybe part of my overview will pique your interest.

[Crazedwraith]

Allston: Allston's Wraith Squadron books and Starfighters of Adumar are the most lighthearted parts of the Post-ROTJ EU, but the first one is significantly worse. They also lack any major movie characters until Solo Command, where Han Solo is the main character. These have the lowest Jedi concentration of any of the post-ROTJ EU, by which I mean one in Wraith Squadron, and none in SoA. However, how do you like fighter jockeys? These books are high on fighter combat, low on technical accuracy, but fun to read. They also have far better Imperial characters than most other EU books.

Wedge doesn't count as a movie character? Also calling Tyria Sarkin a Jedi Character is stretching the truth near breaking point. She's force sensitive barely and aside from a couple of odd feelings in Solo Command its not at all relevant.

I agree that the trilogy is pretty minimalistic but only in that it fits in with the rest of the EU. I assume 'low on technically accuracy' just means 'has shied generator domes' which again is exactly the same as the rest of the EU. It's not really a specific criticism of Allston.

[fractalsponge1]

I've found James Luceno's prequel work to be quite entertaining. Cloak of Deception and Labyrinth of Evil, along with Dark Lord are all pretty good.

[Bakustra]

Allston: Allston's Wraith Squadron books and Starfighters of Adumar are the most lighthearted parts of the Post-ROTJ EU, but the first one is significantly worse. They also lack any major movie characters until Solo Command, where Han Solo is the main character. These have the lowest Jedi concentration of any of the post-ROTJ EU, by which I mean one in Wraith Squadron, and none in SoA. However, how do you like fighter jockeys? These books are high on fighter combat, low on technical accuracy, but fun to read. They also have far better Imperial characters than most other EU books.

Wedge doesn't count as a movie character? Also calling Tyria Sarkin a Jedi Character is stretching the truth near breaking point. She's force sensitive barely and aside from a couple of odd feelings in Solo Command its not at all relevant.

I agree that the trilogy is pretty minimalistic but only in that it fits in with the rest of the EU. I assume 'low on technically accuracy' just means 'has shied generator domes' which again is exactly the same as the rest of the EU. It's not really a specific criticism of Allston.

I said major movie characters. Wedge certainly isn't major. Perhaps I should have substituted "force-sensitive" for Jedi, in Tyria's case. Technical accuracy, for me, isn't really important, but it is somewhat, well, disappointing when it happens with good authors. I'll freely admit that I hold Stover, Luceno, Zahn and Allston to higher standards than most of the rest of the EU, because I like their books. Allston's minimalism isn't really as bad as other people's, the death of the Implacable is the only thing that really sticks out, but WS is his weakest overall. I honestly will recommend the Wraith Squadron series over anything else besides TTT and Dark Empire.

Ooh, I forgot about Kristine Kathryn Rusch's The New Rebellion! Well, the fact I forgot about it entirely- oh, wait, I used that one with CoPL. Anyway, TNR is below Stackpole and Tyers, and in the same range as Hambly, McIntyre, and Anderson. The book features an idiot plot. The villain is an idiot, with his plan of vaguely-defined revenge against... somebody. Maybe Luke, maybe the New Republic, maybe Lando's old droid buddy, Vuffi Ra. It's never quite clear. Luke is an idiot, because his means of doing detective work is to just head out and screw around with mist creatures. Leia is not an idiot, because I can't even remember any of her scenes, apart from a droid-bomb going off in the Senate chamber, which for some reason I recall as having folding chairs. That's how bad this book is. It makes me think of the NR Senate chamber as a library's community room. "And thank you to the Senator from Brak Sector for that speech about the importance of quality control in fiber-optics! Now let's get this to a vote, because the kid's group is meeting in 15 minutes." Han is an idiot, because his idea of solving the mystery is to go with Lando and Chewie to a bunch of asteroids with kidnapped Jawas and an old friend. The plot is idiotic because all of this works. The author also decided to give the villain a sidekick who attended Luke's academy and then fell to the Dark Side. KJA then used him as a villain for his teen books. Guess how they defeat the villain? If you're thinking, "why, in a dramatic battle, of wills or of weapons, I don't care which," then you'd be wrong. They emasculate the villain by using ysalamiri, (because a good duel between force-users was far too obvious) and then Luke decapitates him, revealing that beneath his hideous death mask that he used to address the NR Senate, Dr. Evil-style, is a young, pretty face. Hoo boy, it felt good to get that off my chest.

I've found James Luceno's prequel work to be quite entertaining. Cloak of Deception and Labyrinth of Evil, along with Dark Lord are all pretty good.

I think that the Clone Wars-era EU is somewhat better, because of Medstar, Shatterpoint, Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, and the ROTS-related works.

[xammer99]

Thank you very much folks! I appreciate it.

I've read lots of the pre-quel EU stuff and liked most of it. But a friend was interested in the post-movies EU for love of the main characters.

Thanks!

[Darth Fanboy]

You know what might be fun? Putting together a panel of people well versed with EU novels and making an stickied offical "recommendations thread"

My List:

"Labyrinth of Evil" and "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader" - I include these books together because they were both written by James Luceno and because they form a trilogy of books with the movie novelization by Stover right in the middle. They are both well written, accompany the movie and its novelization well, and provide some great depictions of established characters. Dark Lord is especially good if you're a Vader fan.

"Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter" - Great prequel to Episode One with lots of Maul action. Written by Michael Reaves.

Medstar Duology - Admittedly better if you were also a fan of M*A*S*H but it was a great Star Wars look at some new characters and a lesser-known character in Barriss Ofee. Written by Reaves along with Steve Perry.

Darth Bane Trilogy - Despite its flaws I still found a lot of enjoyment from the depiction of Darth Bane in the first two books of this series, the third book comes out next month.

Zahn - I'm going to take the road less travelled with Zahn and say that I didn't like the Thrawn trilogy as much as some people. I borrowed the books from my brother and he got them used extremely cheap so it was worth the price. I actually like his "Outbound Flight" book set during the Clone Wars and his one shot novel "Allegiance" the best.

Allston - His X-Wing books were very entertaining, Wraith Squadron was a great Star Wars creation and a far cry from the Gary Stus that do no wrong in Hackpole's books. I wouldn't even bother with anything else he has done from the NJO and onward.

[Darth Yan]

some NJO is good (Final prophecy and Unifying Force and Traitor are all beautifully written, and traitor turns a character who's a pussy into an awesome badass.) The final book has a twist almost as shocking as the Luke I am Your Father revelation. The very final battle between Jacen and the Big Bad (who's best described as palpatine mixed with gollum and the joker) was freaking epic. However, my advice read the more important ones (Vector Prime, Balance Point, EOV duology, Star by Star, Traitor, Destiny's way, final prophecy, and Unifying force)

[Stofsk]

What was so shocking? I don't remember any 'twist' when I sped-read the book.

[The Grim Squeaker]

What was so shocking? I don't remember any 'twist' when I sped-read the book.

Spoiler

Onimi, the court jester/crippled clown is actually mind controlling Supreme Overlord Shimra and can use the force to, er, sweat poisons.

[Darth Yan]

the seeminlgy insignificant jester in the supreme overlord's' court is the real big bad, and he's a extremely powerful warrior. And he wants to kill everyone in the galaxy, and can be summed up as palpatine mixed with gollum and the joker. He's also electrically charged

[Simon_Jester]

What was so shocking? I don't remember any 'twist' when I sped-read the book.

Spoiler

Onimi, the court jester/crippled clown is actually mind controlling Supreme Overlord Shimra and can use the force to, er, sweat poisons.

Spoiler

Oh, come on, that plot twist has been around since Foundation and Empire! That's not very impressive... I want something creative, darnit!

[Darth Yan]

his reveal speech and the depraved rant against the gods (and a captive Jaina), as well his desire to slaughter "everyone and everything in this foul galaxy" was beautifully written, and easily propelled him into the spot of cruelest and most depraved star wars EU villian (palpatine is still more evil). None of the other EU villians showed that much disregard for sentient life; the dude orchestrates the death of trillions, and the destruction of whole species, and is ultimately responsible for all the pain and suffering the Vong unleash on the galaxy, just so he can achieve godhood. He's like Kefka from Final Fantasy VI, in that he takes giddy joy in slaughtering people.

[Connor MacLeod]

For the most part you cna rely on certain authors to be good.

I am a fan of James Luceno, Aaron Allston, Michael Reeves/Steve Perry, and most of Matt Stover's works. I am also partial to most of Troy Denning's stuff but not everyone likes him. The First republic Commando novel is still good, but you probably want to steer clear of hte rest of them. Black Fleet Crisis is moderately good as well.

As far as Timothy Zahn goes, the first three books he wrote and hand of Thrawn are probably all you want to deal with. And perhaps Alleigance (which Ih aven't read yet.) Avoid the others.

On the "classic" scale I also highly recommend Brian Daley's Han Solo novels, and the NPR radio dramas (He wrote those, although the first and second are the best)

Stackpole's books aren't bad if you read them purely for "big dumb" mindless entertainment and ignore the obvious fact they are novelized forms of the X-wing games and can tolerate Corran Horn.

Jedi Trial isn't a bad novel either, since its the most "military" oriented SW novel out there.

[Darth Yan]

black fleet sort of strikes me more as "why the hell should we intervene?" Sort of like what the US was experiencing before WWII. I found the concept really unique. The only thing keeping Leia from stopping Sparr is people's inifference.

[Lord Pounder]

In fairness to the Aaron Allison books Tyria Sarkin does later become a self taught Jedi. She had the power all along but before she could access these powers she had to get over the emotional hang ups she had.

To be fair I thought the Allison X-Wing books where no more minimalist than Zahn's works. The hunt for The Iron Fist was compelling the mirror between Solo and the Warlord was interesting and unlike a vast majority of EU authors Allison introduced new characters and made you care about them. I remember being so depressed when certain characters died. He didn't rely on Movie characters to flesh out his books, also on a personal note he introduced some much needed comedy to Star Wars EU. I still laugh when I read the "pirates" skit in Solo Command.

[Darth Hoth]

Stackpole gets bashed a lot, undeservedly in my humble opinion. From most comments one receives the impression that he is some KJA-level hack who writes the plot for a morning cartoon show. He is not. Apart from the minimalism and technical inaccuracy (neither of which is really any worse than, say, a celebrated visionary like Tim Zahn, A.K.A. Captain Minimalism), the reason many seem to hate him is that they dislike the Corran Horn character (and bullshit that some Shistavanen did not get enough character development, as if we are interested in what some werewolf thinks).

His books have their bad sides, this is undeniable. But that they focus on a small core cast is not necessarily a negative. In plots, he is certainly among the more original EU authors, even if he usually portrays the Empire as moustache twirlers.

His standalone novel I, Jedi is arguably one of the very best books in the EU. It has a small scale*, a personal focus, and as a bonus it at least attempts to repair the trainwreck that was KJA's original depiction of the Yavin Academy.


*As in, not minimalist per se, but dealing with small matters (piracy and personal hero quests) rather than the imminent destruction of civilisation and life everywhere.

[Darth Hoth]

some NJO is good (Final prophecy and Unifying Force and Traitor are all beautifully written, and traitor turns a character who's a pussy into an awesome badass.) The final book has a twist almost as shocking as the Luke I am Your Father revelation. The very final battle between Jacen and the Big Bad (who's best described as palpatine mixed with gollum and the joker) was freaking epic. However, my advice read the more important ones (Vector Prime, Balance Point, EOV duology, Star by Star, Traitor, Destiny's way, final prophecy, and Unifying force)

Many people will, however, likely find the philosophy espoused in Traitor and onwards to be at odds with the filmic (and usual EU) depiction of the Force. Read at your own peril.

In the NJO I particularly liked Star by Star because it has the closest thing to an epic battle that the EU has yet shown us. It does, however, depict the New Republic as even more terminally retarded than usual and has a number of other oddities in it. The Stackpole duology in the series I also liked, but that was probably mostly because at that point the Vong were actually new and still vaguely scary, both to the reader and the in-universe perspectives, especially as compared to the totally demystifying and disappointing introduction they got in Salvatore's series opener.

[Crazedwraith]

His standalone novel I, Jedi is arguably one of the very best books in the EU. It has a small scale*, a personal focus, and as a bonus it at least attempts to repair the trainwreck that was KJA's original depiction of the Yavin Academy.

I,Jedi? One of the very best books in the EU? Don't get me wrong I've defended I,Jedi and Corran Horn's possible mary suish ness before but the best EU novel? Seriously?

Many people will, however, likely find the philosophy espoused in Traitor and onwards to be at odds with the filmic (and usual EU) depiction of the Force. Read at your own peril.

Oddly enough Traitor's author Matthew Stover, also wrote the Episode III novelisation and managed to fit the same philosophy of the force into that, and it works.

[Sheridan]

Out of my own experience, I've yet to go horribly wrong with Zahn's novels. Some of them are better than others (I particularly like the interesting tactics that Thrawn comes up with in the first [chronologically written, not in universe] trilogy), but I've yet to read any that actively sucked. My personal ranking on them are the original trilogy, The Hand of Thrawn duology (I like Pellaeon as a character), Survivor's Quest, Outbound Flight (my gripe with Outbound Flight is that the plot seemed somewhat forced, since it needed to tie the rest of the novels' details together--still, it wasn't predictable but for a few important details that are already known if you read the rest), and Alliegence down at the bottom (Alliegence just doesn't seem to do anything, even if it does have enough explosions to entertain me).

As many have mentioned before, Allison does a good job of humor. I like humor in my reading, and all I really have to say about that is, "Yub-yub, Commander!" On top of that, most of the characters from the Wraith Squadron series are specifically not big names from the films.

Michael Stackpole is not terrible. My specific gripe with him is that many of his characters seem to blend together when I'm reading about them. They lack much in the way of depth--but, given the nature of the Rogue Squadron series, I'm willing to forgive that. It's not supposed to be a deep, life-affirming story of complicated emotions, convoluted plot, and character development. It's about blowing shit up. Lots of shit. To the point where he probably could have titled the novels "Running From Explosions" 1 through whatever. I enjoy that from time to time.

I specifically did not enjoy the Republic Commando novels that I read. It had the same problem as Stackpole's novels: the characters all seemed to be exactly the same (though, at least here, they had the excuse of most of the characters being clones). It seemed to lack the explodiness of Stackpole's work, though.

Avoid the Jedi Academy trilogy if you value your sanity. Those books would make Cthulu run away, screaming in fear.

Edit: Forgot about Alliegence.

[Darth Hoth]

I,Jedi? One of the very best books in the EU? Don't get me wrong I've defended I,Jedi and Corran Horn's possible mary suish ness before but the best EU novel? Seriously?

Among the Bantam books, it certainly is among the best. (My favourites otherwise are the old Han Solo pulps, so I suppose I tend to prefer the stories with narrower plots.) I mostly bailed out of the EU after Dark Nest, so there may be other, newer literature of which I am not aware. But compared to the trash by KJA, the Black Fleet books, the Corellian trilogy, Zahn's self-indulgent wankfests, & c? It is certainly superior to those

Oddly enough Traitor's author Matthew Stover, also wrote the Episode III novelisation and managed to fit the same philosophy of the force into that, and it works.

How would he manage that?

Spoiler

The whole "there is not really any Dark Side, and the ends justify the means" story just appears to fly in the face of how the films portray the Force, nevermind most EU.

[Crazedwraith]

Oddly enough Traitor's author Matthew Stover, also wrote the Episode III novelisation and managed to fit the same philosophy of the force into that, and it works.

How would he manage that?
Spoiler

The whole "there is not really any Dark Side, and the ends justify the means" story just appears to fly in the face of how the films portray the Force, nevermind most EU.

Vergere's point is not that there's no dark side; just that the darkside is internal to people not an external component of the force as a whole. To be fair take the first example of Anakin going dark: Massacring the Tusken Raiders. Did he do that at the behest of 'the dark side' or did he do it as revenge for them killing his mother?

As for Stover working it into EpIII its really confinded to Anakin's final introspective passage like thus:

But you remember...
You remember all of it
You remember the dragon that you brought forth Vader from you heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader's Blood. You remember the furnace of Vader's fury and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth-
And there is one blazing moment when you finally realise the truth: that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker.
That it was all you. Is you
Only you.
You did it.
You killed her.

[Darth Yan]

i flipped through champions of the force, and the part I read really wasn't too horrible (the final confrontation with Exar Kun was well written). Can't speak for the rest of the series. What vergere said is that the force reflects what it finds in the user.