Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

Moderator: Alyrium Denryle

User avatar
Bounty
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10767
Joined: 2005-01-20 08:33am
Location: Belgium

Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Bounty »

Huffington Post wrote:BRUSSELS — A man who emerged from what doctors thought was a vegetative state says he was fully conscious for 23 years but could not respond because he was paralyzed, his mother said Monday.

Rom Houben, 46, had a car crash in 1983 and doctors thought he had sunk into a coma. His family continued to believe their son was conscious and sought further medical advice.

Professor Steven Laureys of Belgium's Coma Science Group realized that the diagnosis was wrong and taught Houben how to communicate through a special keyboard, said Dr. Audrey Vanhaudenhuyse, who is on Laureys' team.

Rom used the device to tell a reporter for the German magazine Der Spiegel that: "I screamed but there was nothing to hear."

Belgian doctors who treated him early on said that Rom had gone from a coma into a vegetative condition.

Coma is a state of unconsciousness in which the eyes are closed and the patient can't be roused, as if simply asleep. A vegetative state is a condition in which the eyes are open and can move, and the patient has periods of sleep and periods of wakefulness, but remains unconscious and unaware of him or herself or others. The patient can't think, reason, respond, do anything on purpose, chew or swallow.

But Rom's parents would not accept that he was comatose or vegetative.

His mother, Fina Houben, said in a telephone interview that they took him five times to the United States for tests.

More searching finally got her in touch with Laureys, who put Houben through a PET scan that indicated he was conscious. The family and doctors then began trying to establish communication.

A breakthrough came when he was able to indicate yes or no by slightly moving his foot to push a computer device placed there by Laureys' team.

Then came the spelling of words using his finger and a touch-screen attached to his wheelchair.

"You have to imagine yourself lying in bed wanting to speak and move but unable to do so – while in your head you are OK," Vanhaudenhuyse said. "It was extremely difficult for him and he showed a lot of anger, which is normal since he was very frustrated," she said.

The case came to light after Laureys published a study in the journal BMC Neurology this year showing that about four out of ten patients with consciousness disorders are wrongly diagnosed as being a vegetative state. Houben, although not specifically mentioned, was part of the study.

Houben has started writing a book on his experiences.
How's that for a grade-A nightmare?

In do wonder how they could have missed him being conscious for so long if he had very, very limited movement in his foot. This sounds less like a failure of the coma diagnosis criteria and more an oversight of the doctors.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Especially disturbing in that being diagnosed as persistently vegetative is considered a justification by some for "pulling the plug." I wonder how many people have died in similar conditions because of a misdiagnosis?

Anyway, I hope he and his family can sue those doctors for everything they've got.
User avatar
fgalkin
Carvin' Marvin
Posts: 14557
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:51pm
Location: Land of the Mountain Fascists
Contact:

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by fgalkin »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Especially disturbing in that being diagnosed as persistently vegetative is considered a justification by some for "pulling the plug." I wonder how many people have died in similar conditions because of a misdiagnosis?

Anyway, I hope he and his family can sue those doctors for everything they've got.
If the alternative is 23 years of locked in syndrome, I'd rather they pull the plug, to be honest. That's not life, that's pointless existence.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
Red
Youngling
Posts: 68
Joined: 2007-01-15 11:03am
Location: Kentucky, USA

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Red »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Anyway, I hope he and his family can sue those doctors for everything they've got.
Bounty wrote:His mother, Fina Houben, said in a telephone interview that they took him five times to the United States for tests.
... without further details, I'm not sure it's prudent to jump straight to screaming malpractice, since it wasn't only the original Belgian doctors, but apparently a series of U.S. doctors as well who were inaccurate?

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to gloss over the horror of 23 years of lying prisoner to your own body; but must one jump to calling for blood so quickly?
User avatar
FSTargetDrone
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7878
Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by FSTargetDrone »

fgalkin wrote:If the alternative is 23 years of locked in syndrome, I'd rather they pull the plug, to be honest. That's not life, that's pointless existence.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
I want to know what kind of psychological trauma he may have suffered after supposedly being conscious for those 23 years and not being able to communicate with anyone.

It has to be worse, in all kinds of ways, than being in prison for the same length of time. Even people who are in solitary confinement may have some kind of interaction with guards or social/psychological workers in the prison.
Image
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Red wrote: ... without further details, I'm not sure it's prudent to jump straight to screaming malpractice, since it wasn't only the original Belgian doctors, but apparently a series of U.S. doctors as well who were inaccurate?
Fair enough. But if someone's incompetence is to blame, then they'd better pay up for it.
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Simon_Jester »

fgalkin wrote:If the alternative is 23 years of locked in syndrome, I'd rather they pull the plug, to be honest. That's not life, that's pointless existence.
Understandable, though I wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way and would feel strange about imposing that on others.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Chocolate Kiwii
Shroomy's love slave
Posts: 60
Joined: 2009-11-22 06:07pm

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Chocolate Kiwii »

FSTargetDrone wrote:
fgalkin wrote:If the alternative is 23 years of locked in syndrome, I'd rather they pull the plug, to be honest. That's not life, that's pointless existence.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
I want to know what kind of psychological trauma he may have suffered after supposedly being conscious for those 23 years and not being able to communicate with anyone.

It has to be worse, in all kinds of ways, than being in prison for the same length of time. Even people who are in solitary confinement may have some kind of interaction with guards or social/psychological workers in the prison.
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display ... geNumber=1

I remember reading a while ago that patients who suffer from LIS suffer from emotional desensitization as a great deal of what we define as the human experience is tied into our mobility. I am not sure if the article suggested it was damage from stroke which caused emotional stunting or pessimism, or the actual debilitation. For the life of me though, I cant find it :(

How do you suppose they will even be able to assess long-term mental anguish in cases like this?
Our posturing, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are all challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -Carl Sagan

Creation and implementation of the Scientific Method. It's the one tool that unlocked our ability to realize our potential for discovering and unlocking all others. -Singular Intellect
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Broomstick »

Color me skeptical.

First of all, for suspected vegetative state they study the patient's brain activity. Those with LIS show distinctively different, and far more active, brain activity than those in a persistent vegetative state or a coma.

As for the experience of being locked in - as it happens on another message board we recently had someone join up who has been locked in for 9 years or so (he has adaptive devices that allow him to type on the internet, although very slowly). Being locked in by itself apparently does alter one's perceptions. He maintains that he presently has a good quality of life, despite not being able to move, although being able to communicate has a LOT to do with his current contentment.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Geoff-H
Redshirt
Posts: 13
Joined: 2009-10-25 11:48pm

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Geoff-H »

Simon_Jester wrote:
fgalkin wrote:If the alternative is 23 years of locked in syndrome, I'd rather they pull the plug, to be honest. That's not life, that's pointless existence.
Understandable, though I wouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way and would feel strange about imposing that on others.
Quite, I suppose that would have to be something decided on a person by person basis, stated in a will or some-such. I'd like to stay around, personally and not getting into the whole 'beliefs' area. I've always been rather fond of this world, and I'd kinda like to hang around as long as possible before moving on.
"There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole." Murphy's Law of Combat

May it serve as a reminder to the collective people, Catholicism is not the same as Fundamentalism. Alright?
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

If scans indicate that his brain has conscious activity, then what were the previous medical examinations done to him that showed negative results? What are the usual examinations done to other misdiagnosed patients? How thorough was it?
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Azazal
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1534
Joined: 2005-12-19 02:02pm
Location: Hunting xeno scum

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Azazal »

Broomstick wrote:Color me skeptical.

First of all, for suspected vegetative state they study the patient's brain activity. Those with LIS show distinctively different, and far more active, brain activity than those in a persistent vegetative state or a coma.

As for the experience of being locked in - as it happens on another message board we recently had someone join up who has been locked in for 9 years or so (he has adaptive devices that allow him to type on the internet, although very slowly). Being locked in by itself apparently does alter one's perceptions. He maintains that he presently has a good quality of life, despite not being able to move, although being able to communicate has a LOT to do with his current contentment.
Going to join in with Broomstick here. More info has come out and it is not what it looks like.

James Randi has stepped in on this and makes some very valid points. Sadly it looks more like a case of wishful thinking then medical miracle.
I'm enraged. Several perceptive persons have sent me to msnbc.com - where we can see Dr. Nancy Snyderman relating a story. It's a heartrender, described thus by Dr. Snyderman:

A mother [in Belgium] says her son has emerged from what doctors thought was a vegetative state to say he was fully conscious for 23 years but could not respond because he was paralyzed.

No, that is not what the man said, Dr. Snyderman. That's what an incompetent layperson typed for him! I ask you to first go to http://tinyurl.com/y8lku48, and note the section of the video from 12 to 35 seconds, then come back here.

This is yet another obvious example of abysmal, practiced, purposeful ignorance by medical personnel - including Dr. Snyderman and her staff who prepared this piece. I cannot understand how anyone, professional medical person or layman, can continue to believe that the farce known as "Facilitated Communication" [FC] represents anything other than a fantasy that was begun back in 1977, when an Australian woman named Rosemary Crossley came up with the idea that autistic persons could express their thoughts via a keyboard when their hand was "supported" by what she called a "facilitator." In 1989, Douglas Biklen, a sociologist and professor of special education at Syracuse University, eagerly took up her cause, and as a result vast sums were donated to SU by friends and family members of autism victims - money that was simply wasted in futile "research."

I personally investigated this matter. In March of 1992 I was contacted by Dr. Anne M. Donnellan, of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who asked if I would be willing to participate in an investigation of FC as used with autistic children. I was already familiar with FC, and suggested to her that I felt the researchers were perhaps under the influence of the Clever Hans Effect [CHE], also known as the "ideomotor effect," in which the trainer - the facilitator in this case - was unconsciously transmitting the information to the autistic child. This possibility was emphatically denied by Dr. Donnellan, and I was assured that every care had been taken to ensure that the CHE was not in operation. The Clever Hans Effect is notorious in psychology. Early in the last century, a horse named Clever Hans - in German, der Kluge Hans - was claimed to have been able to perform arithmetic and other simple intellectual tasks. In 1907, psychologist Oskar Pfungst showed conclusively that the horse was not actually performing these mental tasks, but was reacting to cues provided by his trainer.

My tests of autistic children at the University of Wisconsin-Madison clearly showed that FC was simply a tragic farce. My findings were totally ignored. The full account of this matter will be discussed in detail in my next book, A Magician in the Laboratory.

The "facilitated communication" process consists of the "facilitator" actually holding the hand of the subject over the keyboard, moving the hand to the key, then drawing the hand back from the keyboard! This very intimate participatory action lends itself very easily to transferring the intended information to the computer screen. In the video you have just viewed, it is very evident that (a) the "facilitator" is looking directly at the keyboard and the screen, and (b) is moving the subject's hand. The video editing is also biased, giving angles that line up the head of the subject with the screen, as if the subject were watching the screen.

This man in the msnbc.com piece is not seeing the screen. He is not aware of what is going on. He is an unknowing victim of these charlatans. A simple test - such as that done on October 19th, 1993, in a Frontline (PBS) documentary highlighting these concerns, "Prisoners of Silence," would prove that FC is a total fraud. This powerful and comprehensive program proved that FC was a delusion.

Dr. Snyderman, how did this get by you? The evidence is right there on the screen! Others have solved this fraud. The Association for Behavior Analysis International (ABAI), the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, and the American Association on Mental Retardation, have no doubts about this. ABAI calls FC a "discredited technique" and warns that "its use is unwarranted and unethical." The Association for Science in Autism Treatment reviewed the research and position statements and concluded that the messages typed were controlled by the facilitator, not by the individual with autism, and that FC did not improve language skills.

We critics of FC question why people can apparently give speeches in public - via a keyboard and a "facilitator" - and go to college - similarly "assisted" - yet they cannot answer a series of simple questions under controlled conditions! Psychologist Daniel Wegner, professor of psychology at Harvard University and a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science has stated that facilitated communication is a striking example of the ideomotor effect, and tests of FC show that it is a complete fraud, farce, and delusion!

Please, Dr. Snyderman, may we hear from you, in light of what appears here?
Image
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Broomstick »

Here is a link to a US news story about the Belgium man. You can see very clearly the use of facilitated communications. Frankly... I find it on par with a ouija board.

Now, this video alludes to other communication devices available that do not require another human being in the loop. If the person from Belgium can use those to communicate then perhaps he is, indeed, locked in. If not... I am just very, very skeptical. I'll believe fMRI over FC any day.

The other locked in gentleman in the video is the locked in person I've spoken with on another message board. As you can see from this video he has, in fact, regained some function above the neck over the past 8 years or so. This probably isn't that unusual, as some recovery is possible in brain injury.

Here is the man's thread Ask the Guy with Locked In Syndrome if you are curious. It's still running, including him mentioning that he was filmed for Good Morning America.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
GrandMasterTerwynn
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6787
Joined: 2002-07-29 06:14pm
Location: Somewhere on Earth.

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Okay . . . looking at the video, it looks just like the woman is holding the Belgian man's hand and moving it from place to place on the keyboard. Her attention is fixed firmly on the keyboard. The man, on the other hand; well, the lights are on and he looks like he's broadly aware (for a certain, likely generous, definition of 'aware') that there's somebody holding his hand and moving it around . . . but, watching his gaze, it's apparent that his level of awareness does not go beyond that point.

The other man that Broomstick references . . . it's clear that he's quite aware of his surroundings. Watching him is like watching Stephen Hawking. Watching the Belgian man; not quite so much.
User avatar
FSTargetDrone
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7878
Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by FSTargetDrone »

I first read about this on the BBC site a day ago and I was wondering, if this was indeed true, how much time could he have been aware of? How much of world events (assuming they were discussed around him by family or whomever) does he know? It all seems a bit incredible to me.

The guy in the story doesn't even seem to be looking at the keyboard at times, despite the careful editing mentioned.
Image
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Broomstick »

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:The other man that Broomstick references . . . it's clear that he's quite aware of his surroundings. Watching him is like watching Stephen Hawking. Watching the Belgian man; not quite so much.
My other point is that the American guy (he lives in New Jersey) also communicates with other people without assistance of another person. If you read his posts in the thread I linked to you'll find him quite coherent, intelligent, and aware. Those posts are generated by him on his computer, without the assistance of anyone else.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
FSTargetDrone
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7878
Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by FSTargetDrone »

If this is proven to be a case of the Belgian man not really being the person communicating here, how detailed a story refuting the above reports do you think we will see? I am afraid the news will not be as breathlessly reported, for obvious reasons.
Image
User avatar
ArmorPierce
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 5904
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:54pm
Location: Born and raised in Brooklyn, unfornately presently in Jersey

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by ArmorPierce »

When I saw thuis story and saw the picture of him 'typing' I immediately recalled the entire thing about those autistic people (I think) who were claimed to be totally aware of what was going on and typing and communicating with people. When they showed them 'typing' you would notice that they weren't even looking at the keypad and instead staring at like the sky or something. I will wait and see with this story.
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
User avatar
Spectre_nz
Youngling
Posts: 121
Joined: 2009-10-22 06:45am

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Spectre_nz »

Having spotted the same story in our national news carrier and come to the same conclusion as everyone else here, it does look somewhat suspect.

Still, it should be easy enough to rule out the helper, like they did with Clever Hans; display Houben some simple images without the presence of the assistant, then bring the assistant in and get him to type out what he saw.

If you really wanted to get devious, you could display Houben one set of images or letters ahead of time, then display a second set to him while his helper is present and see which set gets typed out...
User avatar
salm
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 10296
Joined: 2002-09-09 08:25pm

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by salm »

According to an article on Spiegel.de Steven Laureys, the neurologist who is treating the guy, said that he did tests to find out if the guy is really typing himself or if it´s the speech therapist who´s helping him. The article doesn´t mention how he tested it, though.

It´s only available in German.
Steven Laureys wrote:"Ich habe ihn natürlich getestet, um auszuschließen, dass in Wahrheit die Logopädin schreibt"
Translation wrote:Of course i´ve tested him, to rule out, that in reality the speech therapist is typing."
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,662625,00.html
User avatar
Bounty
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10767
Joined: 2005-01-20 08:33am
Location: Belgium

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Bounty »

In the news here they said he showed the man images of items when he was alone and then brought the "facilitator" in to have him spell them out; supposedly the answers were correct, but it's his word only.
User avatar
FSTargetDrone
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7878
Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Another Huffington Post story that describes a bit more why this is probably a hoax, as many here think:

Michael Shermer

Publisher Skeptic magazine

Posted: November 25, 2009 06:48 PM

The Coma Man Hoax: Rom Houben's "Communication" Is "Ideomotor" Ouija Board Effect

It's a hoax, folks. Sorry to be the spoiler of a feel good story--that of Rom Houben, the Belgian man who allegedly "woke up" from a 23-year long coma--but the hard truth must win out over hopeful emotions. Houben's "communications," his "statements" about how he's been aware all along of his condition, his "talking" to reporters (all descriptive terms used by hardened journalists softened into bleeding heart jelly) is nothing more than the "ideomotor" effect, where the brain subtly and subconsciously guides the hands and fingers over a keyboard, or a Ouija board, or directs the movements of dowsing rods in search of underground water. You think it, the hand will move there. Dr. Sanjay Gupta missed it on CNN, Dr. Nancy Snyderman missed it on MSNBC. And neuroscientists untrained in skepticism and the history of facilitated communication all missed it.

Watch the video again here and here and note what the reporters say about how Houben was speaking, saying, talking, etc. For example:

* "described his real-life nightmare"
* "'I screamed, but there was nothing to hear,' said Mr Houben"
* "tells of 23 lonely years"

He's doing no such thing. These reporters are watching these same videos are reporting something that did not happen. He did not say anything, nor did he describe or tell. Houben is just sitting there in a chair looking like he's in a coma, with the facilitator standing next to him, his hand firmed gripped by hers, guiding his hand over the keyboard. And yet the reporters report that he is guiding her hand! Watch it again. It's as clear as can be!

A simple test to prove my claim: show a picture of an object (say, a cat) to the facilitator and show a different picture of an object (say, a dog) to Huben. Don't let either one see the other photographs. Then see what gets typed: cat or dog? As a control, show them both the same picture and see what gets typed. Prediction: Whatever the facilitator sees is what will get typed. Would someone there please run this simple test?

Such a test was already done in the 1990s when something called "Facilitated Communication" (FC) was all the rage with autistic children who, just like the Coma Man, "suddenly awoke" from their long sleep and began talking up a storm and sounding all the world like perfectly normal bright children, some even returning to school to take classes. Only they weren't. Normal. Or talking. A facilitator stood next to a child, held his or her hand firmly in a grip with the index finger pointing down over a keyboard, then typed. In controlled tests by experimental psychologists, a photograph of an object was shown to the facilitator and a photograph of an object was shown to the child. Neither one saw what the other one saw. Sometimes the pictures were of the same objects, sometimes they were different. Result: whatever the facilitator saw is what got typed, 100% of the time, and never (0%) did what the child see get typed unless it was also what the facilitator saw. Did that end the travesty of exploitation of these autistic children? No. At least not for many years. Why? Because emotions almost always trump evidence. And, understandably, parents of autistic children want to believe that their children are normal. The tragedy is in the letdown and realization of what is really going on, which in time did happen. That is the power of belief.

Prediction: if the Coma Man story is not thoroughly debunked now, within a short time the families of people in comas will be snapping up these plastic keyboards and facilitating the communication of their loved ones locked up in a broken brain. Only they will be doing no such thing. They will be wasting their time, money, energy, and worst of all their emotions, setting themselves up for being crushed when awareness dawns on them that FC doesn't work. Please, would someone in the Houben family put an end to this charade before it spreads through the coma community and wreaks emotional havoc.
And an even better article from Wired:
Wired Science News for Your Neurons

Reborn Coma Man’s Words May Be Bogus

* By Brandon Keim
* November 24, 2009
* 5:31 pm

The statements of a Belgian man believed to be in a coma for 23 years, but recently discovered to be conscious, are poignant, but experts say they may not be his words at all.

Rom Houben’s account of his ordeal, repeated in scores of news stories since appearing Saturday in Der Spiegel, appears to be delivered with assistance from an aide who helps guide his finger to letters on a flat computer keyboard. Called “facilitated communication,” that technique has been widely discredited, and is not considered scientifically valid.

“If facilitated communication is part of this, and it appears to be, then I don’t trust it,” said Arthur Caplan, director of the University of Pennsylvania’s Center for Bioethics. “I’m not saying the whole thing is a hoax, but somebody ought to be checking this in greater detail. Any time facilitated communication of any sort is involved, red flags fly.”

Facilitated communication came to prominence in the late 1970s after an Australian teacher reportedly used it to communicate with 12 children rendered speechless by cerebral palsy and other disorders. Over the next two decades, it gained some adherents in patient and medical communities, but failed to produce consistent results in controlled, scientific settings.

Researchers said that facilitators were unconsciously or consciously guiding patients’ hands. Multiple professional organizations, including the American Association on Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities and the American Academy of Pediatrics, say that facilitated communication is not credible.

Far more credible, however, is emerging research on patients thought to be in vegetative states, but revealed by brain-scanning technology to be at least minimally conscious, and even aware of what is happening around them. These two strains of research have collided in the figure of Houben. In 2006, a full 23 years after a horrific car accident left him paralyzed and apparently unconscious, tests run by the University of Liege’s Coma Science Group showed that Houben’s brain was active, and almost normal. He wasn’t a vegetable, but aware, and trapped silently in the prison of his ruined body.

Houben has since proven able to answer yes-or-no questions with slight movements of his foot. It’s a tremendous accomplishment, and raises the chilling possibility that, as estimated by Coma Science Group leader Steven Laureys in a Monday New York Times story, as many as four in 10 people considered utterly comatose may be misdiagnosed. But the legitimacy of interviews given by Houben and his facilitator to Der Spiegel, and shown on video by the BBC, may not be as certain.

“I believe that he is sentient. They’ve shown that with MRI scans,” said James Randi, a prominent skeptic who during the 1990s investigated the use of facilitated communication for autistic children. But in the video, “You see this woman who’s not only holding his hand, but what she’s doing is directing his fingers and looking directly at the keyboard. She’s pressing down on the keyboard, pressing messages for him. He has nothing to do with it.”

According to Randi, facilitated communication could only be considered credible if the facilitator didn’t look at the keyboard or screen while supporting Houben’s hand, and helped him type messages in response to questions she had not heard, thus ensuring that Houben’s responses are entirely his own.

The James Randi Educational Foundation has offered a million-dollar prize to a valid demonstration of facilitated communication, and Randi invited Houben to participate. “Our prize is still there,” he said.

In the Der Spiegel interview, Houben and his facilitator recounted his ordeal. “I would scream, but no sound would come out,” they wrote. “I became the witness to my own suffering, as doctors and nurses tried to speak to me and eventually gave up.” Of the correct diagnosis, they wrote, “I will never forget the day they finally discovered what was wrong — it was my second birth.”

According to Caplan, Houben’s apparent lucidity after spending more than two decades in complete isolation — circumstances known to be psychologically and cognitively damaging — is hard to believe.

“You’re going to lie for 23 years in a hospital bed with almost no stimuli, and then sound completely coherent and cogent?” he said. “Something is wrong with that picture. The messages are almost poetic. It sounds too lucid, like someone prepared these things to say. I’m not saying it’s all a fraud, but I want to hear a lot more.”


Whatever the final verdict on Houben’s facilitated communication, however, it does not alter the fact of his misdiagnosis. Laureys could not be reached for comment, but said in an Agence France Presse story that “every patient should be tested at least 10 times before they are categorically defined as ‘vegetative.’”
The yellow highlighting above, that's what I was really wondering about but didn't express clearly.
Image
User avatar
Raxmei
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 2846
Joined: 2002-07-28 04:34pm
Location: Davis, CA
Contact:

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by Raxmei »

I have to feel bad about the family here. They've been fighting this for 23 years, including five trips to the US. After 20 years of intensive doctor shopping you can be sure they're serious about getting a yes answer. If somebody gives them any shadow of hope they aren't going to let it go. Then they find a doctor who apparently is known for doing this. He's painted as something of a medical dissident, claiming that a substantial fraction of vegetative states are misdiagnosed. His team is the only one in decades to get a positive result on a brain scan, his team that establishes communication, and it is his word that they've properly tested to rule out facilitator interference. Meanwhile the family think he's the only person in the medical community with a scrap of brains in his head because he's the only doctor they've encountered in two decades who told them what they wanted to hear.
I prepared Explosive Runes today.
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by SirNitram »

ArmorPierce wrote:When I saw thuis story and saw the picture of him 'typing' I immediately recalled the entire thing about those autistic people (I think) who were claimed to be totally aware of what was going on and typing and communicating with people. When they showed them 'typing' you would notice that they weren't even looking at the keypad and instead staring at like the sky or something. I will wait and see with this story.
As someone with an Autism Spectrum Disorder, I can tell you communicating via keyboard is vastly easier than other methods, and yes, you can be staring off into space. I stare off into space all the time. Ask Tev.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
ArmorPierce
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 5904
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:54pm
Location: Born and raised in Brooklyn, unfornately presently in Jersey

Re: Supposedly comatose man awake for 23 years

Post by ArmorPierce »

SirNitram wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:When I saw thuis story and saw the picture of him 'typing' I immediately recalled the entire thing about those autistic people (I think) who were claimed to be totally aware of what was going on and typing and communicating with people. When they showed them 'typing' you would notice that they weren't even looking at the keypad and instead staring at like the sky or something. I will wait and see with this story.
As someone with an Autism Spectrum Disorder, I can tell you communicating via keyboard is vastly easier than other methods, and yes, you can be staring off into space. I stare off into space all the time. Ask Tev.
okay but the people I'm talking about were typing with one finger that was being held by someone else and it was not a regular keyboard as far as I can remember. So it was not an issue of being able to type without looking, it was them not looking at a funky keyboard set up and jabbing their fingers into the right spots without looking nor feeling their way. I can type without looking but I obviously need my fingers set to something (index finger on f and j). Go ahead, look away and try to type with one finger by just jabbing it at the keyboard, I bet you won't be that successful. I don't think it was even a regular keyboard setup.
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
Post Reply