SDN World 3 Commentary Thread I

[K. A. Pital]

Stas:

Does the Soviet Union use the same gauge railway as it historically used? (1524mm/1520mm)? And why would there be a rail way between Russia and Manchuria?

Because there probably was built one during Tsar Russian era (pre-1905)? Or?

You stated yourself that there's not much trade between us. Even if for some reason we had rails going to near the same location, it'd still probably end up bridged by a pedestrian or cart bridge, not a rail bridge. (Especially since all the declared borders between us are either rivers or mountains.)

I presumed there is a railway near Manzhouli anyhow? "There isn't" much trade because well, the USSR underwent an internal strife period and basically shut down borders, not because there aren't fucking roads and railroads between the nations.

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Look, I understand the desire to nitpick, but really, not a single railway connection? Did you just destroy the railways after the Soviet government took power? And what does that say, then, about recognition?

I'm tired of this. I can blow an ox cart frankly. I don't care.

I see now I should have immediately DOW'ed you at game start. Would've spared me time, lots of toeing-around posts, and your ridiculous advice about building permafrost railways. And would've also spared me from your Chinese friends messing in.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, Stas, there's always the surprise attack option....

[Beowulf]

So you presume that a railway built to support Russian imperial ambitions in the east would exist just like in reality. Hell for that matter, no railway, no Manzhouli. I'll admit roads would exist, along with suitable bridges, but Manchuria is sure to have seen the Russian Bear as a threat from way back in the 1600s, and unlikely to help Russia with certain bits of infrastructure that'd make it easier to invade, like convenient railways all the way to the border. Or for that matter, railways that use the same gauge (standard for most of the major railways, CAP gauge for most of the minor ones, including those that service the fortress divisions).

[RogueIce]

Germany has made her position clear. We will not join in any pact that has the goal of attacking communist nations, but we will cooperate in intelligence sharing against communist infiltrators that try to illegitimately overthrow governments.

This would probably be along the lines of the US position. We may not like the commies, but there is that whole isolationism angle. Although you can expect us to be doing a bit of backroom contacts like Wilkens.

On the isolationist note, a Far East War is doubtful to draw in the US, given our lack of presence in the Pacific. Maybe some kind of AVG or something to go fight the dirty Reds? I dunno. Of course, commie bastards trying anything in Central and South America are another thing entirely!

[CmdrWilkens]

And as I understand it, my mobilization pool is 20% of my population, or approximately 20 million. My Army Focus is 3, granting me 30% of that for manpower, or 6 million troops. A further 20% of that is my standing army, or 1.2 million troops, with 4.8 million troops in reserve. 1.2 million troops divide neatly into 80 divisions, or 240 total brigades, with 320 (4.8 million / 15 thousand) additional divisions in reserve.

What am I doing wrong?

Offhand you've got 294 active brigades (54 per Army Group and 5 Army Groups plus 24 in the 977th) so you are 54 over your estimation. The brigades on hand would require 1.45 million active troops.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The stance of the Byzantine Empire is non-interference of internal affairs, unless someone actually provokes us, and then we resort to the usual "pit you against many other enemies" kind of diplomacy.

Also, we are quite socialist in our welfare policies in general...

[Master_Baerne]

France isn't a Communist nation, but is very Socialist, and will certainly not attack any nation based solely on ideaological concerns. Know that.

[CmdrWilkens]

Germany has made her position clear. We will not join in any pact that has the goal of attacking communist nations, but we will cooperate in intelligence sharing against communist infiltrators that try to illegitimately overthrow governments.

This would probably be along the lines of the US position. We may not like the commies, but there is that whole isolationism angle. Although you can expect us to be doing a bit of backroom contacts like Wilkens.

Thanks for calling me out

[loomer]

I think we all know where Afghanistan's ideologies lie - in some terrifying mix of socialism and capitalism!

[Raj Ahten]

If the commies really want to dance I'm ready for them .

[Akhlut]

Hey, Beowulf, the city isn't Choibalsan, it's Bayan Tümen, as Choibalsan is one of the leaders of the Mongolian Communists, and he's definitely not a Stalinist dictator in this timeline. So, just edit that one if you could.

[Beowulf]

Hey, Beowulf, the city isn't Choibalsan, it's Bayan Tümen, as Choibalsan is one of the leaders of the Mongolian Communists, and he's definitely not a Stalinist dictator in this timeline. So, just edit that one if you could.

Sorry... I'll get that fixed then.

[K. A. Pital]

So you presume that a railway built to support Russian imperial ambitions in the east would exist just like in reality.

The "railway to support Russian imperial ambitions"? Are you really that dense? You're operating as a state like, many times more industrialized than IRL Manchuria, and you're not having railway communication to Russia? That's looking like insane, doesn't it?

Manchuria is sure to have seen the Russian Bear as a threat from way back in the 1600s, and unlikely to help Russia with certain bits of infrastructure that'd make it easier to invade, like convenient railways all the way to the border.

Are you being deliberately an ass again? The entire Europe was linked with railroads, regardless of major infighting. Hell, any "railways" that are convenient across the border are likewise working AGAINST Russia as they are working FOR Russia. Russia went apeshit over the capture of the Far Eastern Railway IRL because it allowed to support operations against Russia easily and ship lots of goods from Manchuria to Russo-Chinese border and support the mobilization of a border-assaulting force.

No railway is "supporting" anyone so as long as it's controlled by one's nation. Germany and Russia had railway communication - boo-hoo, it was RUSSIAN Ambitions that built railways in Germany and cross-border railway connections, right? Insanity, insanity and once again pure insanity.

But fine, Beowulf. For that matter, if you want to claim that, you have NO Railways that stretch to Amur. Neither do you have Manzhouli, and that means Lake Dalainor will fall FIRST, because without Manzhouli, I don't see a viable opportunity to support the IRL Manzhouli-Chalainor fortified region. There, have FUN resupplying your fucking forces, you ass.

Hereby railway incident edited out. Cue more border provocations.

[Akhlut]

Hey, Beowulf, the city isn't Choibalsan, it's Bayan Tümen, as Choibalsan is one of the leaders of the Mongolian Communists, and he's definitely not a Stalinist dictator in this timeline. So, just edit that one if you could.

Sorry... I'll get that fixed then.

Thank you sir.

[RogueIce]

Thanks for calling me out

What can I say? I am like the majestic, soaring falcon.

[K. A. Pital]

There, done. Cowardly Manchurians haven't built any railways going to the border because they fear Russia? So be it. Hope your soldiers won't mind when they start running out of shells.

Recon flights have begun, and - quite possibly - the Soviet Union will be going to total war mode shortly. I want to honestly warn other nations to stay out of this.

[Steve]

I'll let Beowulf decide where his railways run just as I do you, Stas.

[Ryan Thunder]

And as I understand it, my mobilization pool is 20% of my population, or approximately 20 million. My Army Focus is 3, granting me 30% of that for manpower, or 6 million troops. A further 20% of that is my standing army, or 1.2 million troops, with 4.8 million troops in reserve. 1.2 million troops divide neatly into 80 divisions, or 240 total brigades, with 320 (4.8 million / 15 thousand) additional divisions in reserve.

What am I doing wrong?

Offhand you've got 294 active brigades (54 per Army Group and 5 Army Groups plus 24 in the 977th) so you are 54 over your estimation. The brigades on hand would require 1.45 million active troops.

Ah, shit. I must've copied an extra Army Group out of Excel...

[K. A. Pital]

Sure, whatever. I'm just tired of his nitpicking. Whoops. What was that? Artillery shell!

[Steve]

Would you two just stop with the OOC sniping in IC post?

[Beowulf]

So you presume that a railway built to support Russian imperial ambitions in the east would exist just like in reality.

The "railway to support Russian imperial ambitions"? Are you really that dense? You're operating as a state like, many times more industrialized than IRL Manchuria, and you're not having railway communication to Russia? That's looking like insane, doesn't it?

Manchuria is sure to have seen the Russian Bear as a threat from way back in the 1600s, and unlikely to help Russia with certain bits of infrastructure that'd make it easier to invade, like convenient railways all the way to the border.

Are you being deliberately an ass again? The entire Europe was linked with railroads, regardless of major infighting. Hell, any "railways" that are convenient across the border are likewise working AGAINST Russia as they are working FOR Russia. Russia went apeshit over the capture of the Far Eastern Railway IRL because it allowed to support operations against Russia easily and ship lots of goods from Manchuria to Russo-Chinese border and support the mobilization of a border-assaulting force.

No railway is "supporting" anyone so as long as it's controlled by one's nation. Germany and Russia had railway communication - boo-hoo, it was RUSSIAN Ambitions that built railways in Germany and cross-border railway connections, right? Insanity, insanity and once again pure insanity.

But fine, Beowulf. For that matter, if you want to claim that, you have NO Railways that stretch to Amur. Neither do you have Manzhouli, and that means Lake Dalainor will fall FIRST, because without Manzhouli, I don't see a viable opportunity to support the IRL Manzhouli-Chalainor fortified region. There, have FUN resupplying your fucking forces, you ass.

Hereby railway incident edited out. Cue more border provocations.

Just because railways don't go all the way past the border doesn't mean that there aren't railways inside the border to supply the fortifications. The territory on both sides of the Germany/Russia border is still relatively well populated. It goes from somewhat decent population on my side of the border to nearly none on yours (for a variety of reasons). There's no reason to push a railway across. Even before the Russo-Manchurian War, most trade would have been either to the south, or through the sea, because those are much higher throughput trade routes.

So far, there been no real interaction between Manchuria and Russia other than conflict. Most recently, there was the Russo-Manchurian War that you wanted to have. And that is definitely a spur to the mentality that Russia wants to take Manchurian land. Mongolia has been more reasonable, and does get a cross border railway. It runs south of Lake Hulun, as I previously posted.

The railways that service the fortifications end several miles short of the border, and roughly parallel them, largely. Spurs service the major depots, that then transship to the fortification servicing railways. They are cape gauge, like most minor Manchurian railway lines. And it's a dual track line, for greater throughput (amongst other reasons).

[K. A. Pital]

If Beowulf has such an issue with border provocations, that's not my problem, Steve. Honestly. I was trying to make more or less realistic provocations, nothing more nothing less.

The territory on both sides of the Germany/Russia border is still relatively well populated

You were the one who went out of your skin to say that your part of Northern Manchuria is SOOO densely populated (and fortified like hell).

Even before the Russo-Manchurian War, most trade would have been either to the south, or through the sea, because those are much higher throughput trade routes.

Through which SEA? Through the extreme North where I have no railways? Which sea? You're being an ass once again, I see, right? Shipping goods through the permafrost? How about I ask that your territory be moved to Chukotka so you get a taste of operating in permafrost, and I get my pacific ports? I'm really, really irritated.

And that is definitely a spur to the mentality that Russia wants to take Manchurian land. Mongolia has been more reasonable, and does get a cross border railway. It runs south of Lake Hulun, as I previously posted.

Who cares. You have railways behind your fortifications, hence, they run TO the border if not over it. I'll deal with the inconvenience of laying several dozen miles of track.

[Beowulf]

Even before the Russo-Manchurian War, most trade would have been either to the south, or through the sea, because those are much higher throughput trade routes.

Through which SEA? Through the extreme North where I have no railways? Which sea? You're being an ass once again, I see, right? Shipping goods through the permafrost? How about I ask that your territory be moved to Chukotka so you get a taste of operating in permafrost, and I get my pacific ports? I'm really, really irritated.

Oh, you think I was talking about your trade... I meant my trade.

[Steve]

Who cares. You have railways behind your fortifications, hence, they run TO the border if not over it. I'll deal with the inconvenience of laying several dozen miles of track.

Good for you. Can we stop this bitching now? Both of you? You're going to fight a war; that's well, let's continue the build-up. And please wait until Friday so I don't get home from Thanksgiving at my aunt's house to find a few dozen battles to moderate decisions for?

[K. A. Pital]

Oh, you think I was talking about your trade...

As you denied me Pacific ports, it's natural that any goods from the Pacific would be trans-shiped to Russia through your territory. Frankly, I'm deathly bored of this nitpicking.

Can we stop this bitching now? ... And please wait until Friday so I don't get home from Thanksgiving at my aunt's house to find a few dozen battles to moderate decisions for?

Sure. *shrugs* From now on, guns will do the talking.

As for waiting, I'll post the initial assault and nothing more depending on the situation. I don't want to wait until Beowulf mobilizes any reserves of his to full efficiency. If I wait any longer, that will just happen and I'll have to abort war and spend time to mobilize more resources to achieve doctrinal advantages.