Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
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Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
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Arianna Huffington
Posted: November 23, 2009
Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
There's a Category 5 storm about to make landfall, and the president and the officials in charge of preparing for the approaching disaster don't seem to be particularly worried. Sound familiar?
Just as Katrina exposed critical weaknesses in the priorities and competence of the Bush administration, the unfolding unemployment disaster is threatening to do the same for the Obama White House.
The members of the Obama administration may not be attending a birthday party at John McCain's ranch in Sedona or shopping for expensive Ferragamo shoes in New York as a great American city is destroyed, but their decidedly lackadaisical response to what job losses are doing to multiple great American cities raises the question: will unemployment be Barack Obama's Katrina?
His economic team's resistance to a second round of stimulus, "lukewarm" reaction to Congressional jobs legislation, and prioritization of deficit reduction over job creation certainly has the feel of a taking-in-the-damage-from-2,500-feet flyover moment.
"There is no discussion of a package like a second stimulus," said deputy White House press secretary Jennifer Psaki. "But we are working closely with Congress and consulting with outside experts to determine the right policies and next steps." No word on whether those outside experts include the 1 in 6 workers currently unemployed or underemployed.
Of course, the real problem isn't the outside experts; the administration's wrongheaded approach is a classic inside job. Sen. Sherrod Brown summed it up on CNN, telling John King that when it comes to putting the focus on Main Street, the president's "advisors are mixed."
Which makes one wonder: what level of unemployment would it take to unmix them? Even 10.2 percent, the highest level in 26 years, after 22 straight months of job losses, doesn't seem to have quickened the pulse of Larry Summers and Tim Geithner.
And it's not like the levees haven't begun to crack, with the real unemployment rate -- factoring in discouraged and partially employed workers -- at 17.5 percent, the unemployment rate for workers aged 16 to 24 at 19 percent, and the unemployment rate for young African-Americans at 30 percent. What's more, the average length of unemployment is at a record high, while the ratio of job seekers to open positions is now 6 to 1.
A new ABC/Washington Post poll reported that 30 percent of Americans say someone in their home has lost a job. I'm guessing that Summers and Geithner are comfortably in the other 70 percent. But even if it hasn't hit home for them, it should be clear that unemployment is going to be the singular issue of 2010.
Congressional Democrats have certainly gotten the message -- and have grown tired of waiting for the White House to take the lead. According to The Hill, House Democratic leaders, including Speaker Pelosi, are "worried they've appeared unresponsive to rising unemployment because they were absorbed by health care." The article also says that Harry Reid has told colleagues he wants a jobs bill soon.
As John Larson, the fourth-ranking House Democrat puts it: "It's jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. Members of this caucus feel... that a jobless recovery is just simply unacceptable to us."
The problem for the White House and for the Democratic Party -- and, most importantly, for the country -- is that the administration's response on jobs is being led by Summers, who actually opposed the extension of unemployment benefits Obama just signed. At this point you have to wonder what Obama's attachment to Summers and Geithner is. We know if you become a target of Glenn Beck and cause five seconds of embarrassment to the administration you need to start updating your resume (ask Van Jones), but if you slowly bring down the administration, and the party, and the country, that's apparently fine.
Back in February, when the $787 billion economic stimulus bill was signed, Summers and company promised that it would keep the unemployment rate from going any higher than 8.5 percent. With another 3.4 million jobs lost since then -- and the official unemployment rate at 10.2 and rising -- what does Summers say now?
"I think we got the Recovery Act right."
Really, Larry? What would getting it wrong look like?
The tone-deafness of that statement rivals the clueless response of a certain clothes-conscious former International Arabian Horse Association commissioner turned FEMA head.
I can hear it now: Heck of a job, Larry! Heck of a job, Timmy!
But though the alarm bells don't seem to be ringing in the White House, last week showed that there has clearly been a major shift in the tectonic plates on Capitol Hill.
For starters, there is increasing agreement that Obama's economic team is not up to the job of dealing with the unemployment crisis. According to Rep. Peter DeFazio, there is a "growing consensus" in the Congressional Progressive Caucus that Geithner should resign -- and that Summers needs to go, too. "We need a new economic team," DeFazio said on MSNBC. "We may have to sacrifice just two more jobs to get millions back for Americans."
And the next day, DeFazio told HuffPost's Sam Stein: "It is pretty embarrassing for a Democratic administration and a Democratic Congress to be identified with total attention to Wall Street and nothing for Main Street and jobs."
This comes just a few weeks after Senator Maria Cantwell told MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan that she was "not sure" why Geithner still has a job.
Even more dramatic evidence of the shift came in the House, where members of the House Finance Committee passed a measure to audit the Federal Reserve -- for the first time ever. The bill, sponsored by the bipartisan duo of Rep. Ron Paul and Rep. Alan Grayson, was passed over the objections of Chairman Barney Frank -- and of the Fed and its big time friends and lobbyists. That's a group that doesn't lose many votes in Congress. What's more, a last-minute "compromise" amendment that would have significantly watered down the bill was submitted by Rep. Mel Watt of North Carolina and heavily backed by the Fed. In normal times, this sort of "split-the-difference" amendment would likely have passed. But these are not normal times, and the amendment was defeated -- much to the shock of the Fed and its supporters.
The House Finance Committee was the site of another indication of how the ground is moving under the administration's feet. An hour before a scheduled final vote on the comprehensive financial regulation reform package sought by the White House, members of the Congressional Black Caucus cornered Chairman Frank and said they would refuse to vote for the bill because of the White House's lack of attention to unemployment. It was, as HuffPost's Ryan Grim reported, intended "as a direct rebuke of the White House."
When we hear about members of Congress holding up a vote (and we've heard it a lot lately), most of the time, it's a ploy to secure some kind of pork for their home district. This was an instance of the brakes being put on not for pork -- but for principle.
So, clearly, the winds of change are picking up in Washington and around the country. It's time for the White House to stop holding no-rush summits and insisting that everything is going as planned, and course-correct. Now. And there is no shortage of bold steps the administration can take to mitigate the damage before it turns into an all-out catastrophe.
Among the best ideas currently being floated:
-- Use Wall Street bailout funds left in the TARP program to hail out Main Street (via increased lending to small businesses and using money for public services being cut by states and cities).
-- Enact a one-year payroll tax holiday (creating a moratorium on Social Security, Medicare, and FICA taxes will encourage businesses to hire new workers).
-- Expand the Small Business Association's lending programs (45 percent of all job losses have been at small businesses).
-- Offer businesses a tax credit for every new job created over the next 12 months, or have the government pay a portion of the salary of new workers hired over the same period.
The bottom line: extending unemployment benefits, crossing your fingers, and waiting for things to turn around is just not enough.
In the post-Katrina fallout, video surfaced of a final briefing before the storm hit in which federal disaster officials warned President Bush that the hurricane could breach the levees and overwhelm the ability of rescuers to properly respond. Bush famously didn't ask a single question but assured local officials: "We are fully prepared." He later insisted, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."
Are we going to get similar protestations from Obama when the unemployment waters continue to rise?
The unemployment disaster has already inflicted great damage all across the country. And the Obama White House will be defined by its response to it.
So what is it going to be: a muscular, multi-tiered jobs plan to deal with reality or "heck of a job" delusion?
-------------------------
Just for fun, here's the innocentbystanders graph:
Arianna Huffington
Posted: November 23, 2009
Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
There's a Category 5 storm about to make landfall, and the president and the officials in charge of preparing for the approaching disaster don't seem to be particularly worried. Sound familiar?
Just as Katrina exposed critical weaknesses in the priorities and competence of the Bush administration, the unfolding unemployment disaster is threatening to do the same for the Obama White House.
The members of the Obama administration may not be attending a birthday party at John McCain's ranch in Sedona or shopping for expensive Ferragamo shoes in New York as a great American city is destroyed, but their decidedly lackadaisical response to what job losses are doing to multiple great American cities raises the question: will unemployment be Barack Obama's Katrina?
His economic team's resistance to a second round of stimulus, "lukewarm" reaction to Congressional jobs legislation, and prioritization of deficit reduction over job creation certainly has the feel of a taking-in-the-damage-from-2,500-feet flyover moment.
"There is no discussion of a package like a second stimulus," said deputy White House press secretary Jennifer Psaki. "But we are working closely with Congress and consulting with outside experts to determine the right policies and next steps." No word on whether those outside experts include the 1 in 6 workers currently unemployed or underemployed.
Of course, the real problem isn't the outside experts; the administration's wrongheaded approach is a classic inside job. Sen. Sherrod Brown summed it up on CNN, telling John King that when it comes to putting the focus on Main Street, the president's "advisors are mixed."
Which makes one wonder: what level of unemployment would it take to unmix them? Even 10.2 percent, the highest level in 26 years, after 22 straight months of job losses, doesn't seem to have quickened the pulse of Larry Summers and Tim Geithner.
And it's not like the levees haven't begun to crack, with the real unemployment rate -- factoring in discouraged and partially employed workers -- at 17.5 percent, the unemployment rate for workers aged 16 to 24 at 19 percent, and the unemployment rate for young African-Americans at 30 percent. What's more, the average length of unemployment is at a record high, while the ratio of job seekers to open positions is now 6 to 1.
A new ABC/Washington Post poll reported that 30 percent of Americans say someone in their home has lost a job. I'm guessing that Summers and Geithner are comfortably in the other 70 percent. But even if it hasn't hit home for them, it should be clear that unemployment is going to be the singular issue of 2010.
Congressional Democrats have certainly gotten the message -- and have grown tired of waiting for the White House to take the lead. According to The Hill, House Democratic leaders, including Speaker Pelosi, are "worried they've appeared unresponsive to rising unemployment because they were absorbed by health care." The article also says that Harry Reid has told colleagues he wants a jobs bill soon.
As John Larson, the fourth-ranking House Democrat puts it: "It's jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. Members of this caucus feel... that a jobless recovery is just simply unacceptable to us."
The problem for the White House and for the Democratic Party -- and, most importantly, for the country -- is that the administration's response on jobs is being led by Summers, who actually opposed the extension of unemployment benefits Obama just signed. At this point you have to wonder what Obama's attachment to Summers and Geithner is. We know if you become a target of Glenn Beck and cause five seconds of embarrassment to the administration you need to start updating your resume (ask Van Jones), but if you slowly bring down the administration, and the party, and the country, that's apparently fine.
Back in February, when the $787 billion economic stimulus bill was signed, Summers and company promised that it would keep the unemployment rate from going any higher than 8.5 percent. With another 3.4 million jobs lost since then -- and the official unemployment rate at 10.2 and rising -- what does Summers say now?
"I think we got the Recovery Act right."
Really, Larry? What would getting it wrong look like?
The tone-deafness of that statement rivals the clueless response of a certain clothes-conscious former International Arabian Horse Association commissioner turned FEMA head.
I can hear it now: Heck of a job, Larry! Heck of a job, Timmy!
But though the alarm bells don't seem to be ringing in the White House, last week showed that there has clearly been a major shift in the tectonic plates on Capitol Hill.
For starters, there is increasing agreement that Obama's economic team is not up to the job of dealing with the unemployment crisis. According to Rep. Peter DeFazio, there is a "growing consensus" in the Congressional Progressive Caucus that Geithner should resign -- and that Summers needs to go, too. "We need a new economic team," DeFazio said on MSNBC. "We may have to sacrifice just two more jobs to get millions back for Americans."
And the next day, DeFazio told HuffPost's Sam Stein: "It is pretty embarrassing for a Democratic administration and a Democratic Congress to be identified with total attention to Wall Street and nothing for Main Street and jobs."
This comes just a few weeks after Senator Maria Cantwell told MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan that she was "not sure" why Geithner still has a job.
Even more dramatic evidence of the shift came in the House, where members of the House Finance Committee passed a measure to audit the Federal Reserve -- for the first time ever. The bill, sponsored by the bipartisan duo of Rep. Ron Paul and Rep. Alan Grayson, was passed over the objections of Chairman Barney Frank -- and of the Fed and its big time friends and lobbyists. That's a group that doesn't lose many votes in Congress. What's more, a last-minute "compromise" amendment that would have significantly watered down the bill was submitted by Rep. Mel Watt of North Carolina and heavily backed by the Fed. In normal times, this sort of "split-the-difference" amendment would likely have passed. But these are not normal times, and the amendment was defeated -- much to the shock of the Fed and its supporters.
The House Finance Committee was the site of another indication of how the ground is moving under the administration's feet. An hour before a scheduled final vote on the comprehensive financial regulation reform package sought by the White House, members of the Congressional Black Caucus cornered Chairman Frank and said they would refuse to vote for the bill because of the White House's lack of attention to unemployment. It was, as HuffPost's Ryan Grim reported, intended "as a direct rebuke of the White House."
When we hear about members of Congress holding up a vote (and we've heard it a lot lately), most of the time, it's a ploy to secure some kind of pork for their home district. This was an instance of the brakes being put on not for pork -- but for principle.
So, clearly, the winds of change are picking up in Washington and around the country. It's time for the White House to stop holding no-rush summits and insisting that everything is going as planned, and course-correct. Now. And there is no shortage of bold steps the administration can take to mitigate the damage before it turns into an all-out catastrophe.
Among the best ideas currently being floated:
-- Use Wall Street bailout funds left in the TARP program to hail out Main Street (via increased lending to small businesses and using money for public services being cut by states and cities).
-- Enact a one-year payroll tax holiday (creating a moratorium on Social Security, Medicare, and FICA taxes will encourage businesses to hire new workers).
-- Expand the Small Business Association's lending programs (45 percent of all job losses have been at small businesses).
-- Offer businesses a tax credit for every new job created over the next 12 months, or have the government pay a portion of the salary of new workers hired over the same period.
The bottom line: extending unemployment benefits, crossing your fingers, and waiting for things to turn around is just not enough.
In the post-Katrina fallout, video surfaced of a final briefing before the storm hit in which federal disaster officials warned President Bush that the hurricane could breach the levees and overwhelm the ability of rescuers to properly respond. Bush famously didn't ask a single question but assured local officials: "We are fully prepared." He later insisted, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."
Are we going to get similar protestations from Obama when the unemployment waters continue to rise?
The unemployment disaster has already inflicted great damage all across the country. And the Obama White House will be defined by its response to it.
So what is it going to be: a muscular, multi-tiered jobs plan to deal with reality or "heck of a job" delusion?
-------------------------
Just for fun, here's the innocentbystanders graph:
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- KrauserKrauser
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
LOL We need a Second Stimulus! Because the first one was SOOOOOOOO effective! I hear New Orleans needs another few hundred million to make this pass as well, let's make sure to include that in any future budgeting.
Shovel ready, here we come! JobsJobsJobsJobsJobs it'll create SOOOOO many jobs, 8% unemployment I PROMISE!11!11!!!! You can totally trust me on this one! We haven't changed any of our economic advisors so the old team that gave us the first stimulus is still giving the advice but they TOTALLY think this will work!
I'm sure the Kenseyans are agreeing wholeheartedly with the idea of a second stimulus but maybe if they took a sec and look at what the fucking train wreck of incompetence and mismanagement the first one has become, maybe they might realize that this administration and this congress simply can't be trusted with doling out hundreds of billions of dollars at a time.
Honestly those smaller steps listed at the end of the article are good measures that may actually succeed in keeping the money of Wall Street's hands in the short term. Just wait till another of the big boys starts to teeter again and then I'm sure we'll see some action from Geithner, just probably not the action we would like for him to take.
Good thing Obama is doing a great job in showing the economy has hit even in the white house with him avoiding expensive side trips for personal enjoyment, reducing the size of state dinners to reflect the general state of the economy, yep, good thing he is doing all of that. The emporer is FULLY CLOTHED!
Shovel ready, here we come! JobsJobsJobsJobsJobs it'll create SOOOOO many jobs, 8% unemployment I PROMISE!11!11!!!! You can totally trust me on this one! We haven't changed any of our economic advisors so the old team that gave us the first stimulus is still giving the advice but they TOTALLY think this will work!
I'm sure the Kenseyans are agreeing wholeheartedly with the idea of a second stimulus but maybe if they took a sec and look at what the fucking train wreck of incompetence and mismanagement the first one has become, maybe they might realize that this administration and this congress simply can't be trusted with doling out hundreds of billions of dollars at a time.
Honestly those smaller steps listed at the end of the article are good measures that may actually succeed in keeping the money of Wall Street's hands in the short term. Just wait till another of the big boys starts to teeter again and then I'm sure we'll see some action from Geithner, just probably not the action we would like for him to take.
Good thing Obama is doing a great job in showing the economy has hit even in the white house with him avoiding expensive side trips for personal enjoyment, reducing the size of state dinners to reflect the general state of the economy, yep, good thing he is doing all of that. The emporer is FULLY CLOTHED!
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Actually, this would be the third stimulus. The first one was the 750 billion *cha-ching/where'd it go?* payout from W Bush.
Oh, I forgot-- history officially started on January 20th, 2009, and nothing existed before then, meaning that the whole economy was 100% Obama's fault and no one else had anything to do with it... until people remember that by changing history that way they have nullified the existence of President Reagan! NOOOOOOOooooooooo...!!!
Oh, I forgot-- history officially started on January 20th, 2009, and nothing existed before then, meaning that the whole economy was 100% Obama's fault and no one else had anything to do with it... until people remember that by changing history that way they have nullified the existence of President Reagan! NOOOOOOOooooooooo...!!!
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
- KrauserKrauser
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- Posts: 2633
- Joined: 2002-12-15 01:49am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
I never read the TARP $750 billion as a "stimulus" that was a "bail out". Bush did throw out a $100+ billion "stimulus" in the form of a tax cut but that is substantially smaller than the amounts of money that were thrown around with the first stimulus of Obama and whatever shit they'll propose for "Increase the deficit for marginal gains" v2.0.
Where do you get the impression that TARP was a stimulus package? It was always billed as OMG the sky is falling must prop up the zombie banks. Also Obama campaigned in favor of that bill and happily signed on the dotted along with all the other chucklefucks in Congress.
Saying that Bush is responsible for TARP when it was the same people control of the Houses of Congress as in control now sure does pass the buck a bit. They fucked up under Bush, fucked up again under Obama and now are claiming to have all the answers FOR REALZZZ THIS TIME! TRUSTS US!
Also the window on Obama being able to point to the other guy for blame is closing quickly. His economic choices have been abhorrent and remiscient more of Hoover than of FDR. Too bad we don't have many prospects for someone with a willingness to address fundamental problems inherent in the system that can actually win a national election.
And as a random listener of talk radio they aren't fucking preaching truth either, the loudest members of the right are concerned with bowing and other nonsensical shit but you can tell from their responses to the Healthcare debate they are just as much in the pocket of Wall Street as the other side. Hearing Hannity defend the private health care industry being called to task with the obvious differences in costs in the US vs. the rest of the world with "You sir are against liberty" makes me just as sick as the dribble the spews from Geithner's pie hole.
Where do you get the impression that TARP was a stimulus package? It was always billed as OMG the sky is falling must prop up the zombie banks. Also Obama campaigned in favor of that bill and happily signed on the dotted along with all the other chucklefucks in Congress.
Saying that Bush is responsible for TARP when it was the same people control of the Houses of Congress as in control now sure does pass the buck a bit. They fucked up under Bush, fucked up again under Obama and now are claiming to have all the answers FOR REALZZZ THIS TIME! TRUSTS US!
Also the window on Obama being able to point to the other guy for blame is closing quickly. His economic choices have been abhorrent and remiscient more of Hoover than of FDR. Too bad we don't have many prospects for someone with a willingness to address fundamental problems inherent in the system that can actually win a national election.
And as a random listener of talk radio they aren't fucking preaching truth either, the loudest members of the right are concerned with bowing and other nonsensical shit but you can tell from their responses to the Healthcare debate they are just as much in the pocket of Wall Street as the other side. Hearing Hannity defend the private health care industry being called to task with the obvious differences in costs in the US vs. the rest of the world with "You sir are against liberty" makes me just as sick as the dribble the spews from Geithner's pie hole.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Summers and Geithner will do nothing, because they are beholden to Wall Street and their corporate masters. They don't give a fuck.
Now, getting into the actual recovery, it means investing a shitload into infrastructure and lots of other Big Government shit because private industry simply does not have the resources, the muscle nor the interest to do anything about those. So the Republicans, who still make up a lot of Congress-critters, will oppose all of that at every turn, or sabotage it given the slightest chance so that it's watered down to please their corporate masters.
The roots of the current problems go back a lot farther than just the past year or two. The irresponsible policies that led to this crock of shit have been years or even decades in the making and a lot of it has been fueled by the free market fundamentalist idiocy that by and large has a stranglehold on the US.
It doesn't help that every time there is something negative, it's always entirely the government's fault if you listen to the usual suspects, but all recovery is always down to the Invisible Hand guiding Free Enterprise to victory without government interference.
So yeah, all that clusterfuck has not been solved in 11 months of a Democratic presidency now that they actually also have a Democrat majority Congress (though it sure as fuck doesn't look like it with their spinelessness). Big fucking surprise, this state of affairs is.
Obama is playing the hand he got dealt, which was nothing but a crock of shit to begin with, and even then he has made a lot of mistakes that are actually not mistakes at all as long as you view it from the perspective of corporate interests bent on looting as much as they can while not giving a fuck about normal people.
So the article's "insights" don't impress me one whit. It glosses over all of the above stuff and then goes "Who me? It's all Obama's fault! Waaaaahh!"
Now, getting into the actual recovery, it means investing a shitload into infrastructure and lots of other Big Government shit because private industry simply does not have the resources, the muscle nor the interest to do anything about those. So the Republicans, who still make up a lot of Congress-critters, will oppose all of that at every turn, or sabotage it given the slightest chance so that it's watered down to please their corporate masters.
The roots of the current problems go back a lot farther than just the past year or two. The irresponsible policies that led to this crock of shit have been years or even decades in the making and a lot of it has been fueled by the free market fundamentalist idiocy that by and large has a stranglehold on the US.
It doesn't help that every time there is something negative, it's always entirely the government's fault if you listen to the usual suspects, but all recovery is always down to the Invisible Hand guiding Free Enterprise to victory without government interference.
So yeah, all that clusterfuck has not been solved in 11 months of a Democratic presidency now that they actually also have a Democrat majority Congress (though it sure as fuck doesn't look like it with their spinelessness). Big fucking surprise, this state of affairs is.
Obama is playing the hand he got dealt, which was nothing but a crock of shit to begin with, and even then he has made a lot of mistakes that are actually not mistakes at all as long as you view it from the perspective of corporate interests bent on looting as much as they can while not giving a fuck about normal people.
So the article's "insights" don't impress me one whit. It glosses over all of the above stuff and then goes "Who me? It's all Obama's fault! Waaaaahh!"
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist
Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp
GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan
The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp
GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan
The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Hmmm, let's see, the banks got over-extended into bad loans that are defaulting, and they are hoarding their money, which is putting a freeze on lending. So the banks need a trainload of cash right now so that lending can continue-- and the economy, which is based on spending, debt, and lending for same, can continue.KrauserKrauser wrote:I never read the TARP $750 billion as a "stimulus" that was a "bail out".
Sounds like stimulus to me, just with a neat name that fits in a sound bite.
As to Geithner, you're right there, that guy inspires no confidence.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Are you fucking shitting me? Prioritization of deficit reduction?? What the fuck is this horseshit? The headline of the article is correct in that the completely incompetent handling of the economy & unemployment will sink Obama's presidency as surely as Katrina sunk Bush's, but the rest of the article is full of shit. The proposed "fixes" aren't going to work any better than they did in Japan a decade ago, until the bad debts are defaulted, crooked banks are shut down and the perps tossed in jail, the economy is going to remain on life support since people aren't stupid enough to invest or lend money in a rigged casino. People are stupid, but they ain't that stupid and you can only fool them so many times.His economic team's resistance to a second round of stimulus, "lukewarm" reaction to Congressional jobs legislation, and prioritization of deficit reduction over job creation certainly has the feel of a taking-in-the-damage-from-2,500-feet flyover moment.
Did Obama inherit a mess? Yup. Did he do anything to fix it or disown Bush's policies? Nope. Well guess what, he owns the mess now, meaning he gets to take all the blame for every fuckup. I honestly don't feel any sympathy for him, he could've come clean and admitted that we have a big fucking problem soon after his inaugaration, and used his popularity to ram the fixes through Congress. But he didn't. He continued the Bush administration's policies of lies & bailouts, and more lies (gee, what happened to all those "green shoots" and "strong 2nd half '09 recovery" that we were promised?). Oh yeah, and he hired a tax cheat to run the Treasury. That's when I 100% knew there was no hope for any kind of fix.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
I confess, I don't follow a lot of the economic debate. Why not? Because I'm too busy busting my ass doing manual labor for 1/3 the pay I used to get, busting my ass looking for more work (because I am not getting a full time number of hours), and busting my ass growing some of our food to stretch the budget, and busting my ass scavenging scrap metal to sell to stretch our budget, and busting my ass in general to either increase our income and/or decrease our outgo. It doesn't leave me a fuck of a lot of free time, ya know?
Sitting here in the trenches, what we REALLY need, bottom line, is more paying work for the masses. Seriously. How many unemployed/underemployed do we have? 15 million or something? They need sufficient work to make a living. Honestly, it's that simple, the devil being in the details, as always.
If we don't put those people to work the economy will NEVER recover.
And it's not like folks are terribly, terribly fussy at this point. I know a lot of people who will settle for less than they once had if only it could be enough to put a roof over their heads and food on the table. Like me, for instance, because to be perfectly honest we aren't making it. I'm not even sure I can pay my goddamned rent next week. Happy fucking holidays. My current money runs out mid-December and if I don't get work between then and now we are out of money by New Year's. Never mind the rent - I mean out of money as in "we can't buy food this week".
I am college educated with a sterling work record. I have been looking for work for two fucking years. Were it not for friends, one of whom is employing me at least a little, we would have lost our home, everything we own, and if we were lucky living in a spare bedroom in my sister's house in Buffalo. That may still happen if things don't get better for us very soon.
This is what happened to two intelligent, educated people who had no debt and actual savings in the bank. Other folks did not fare so well. We are getting at least one eviction a week in the immediate neighborhood. First it was people being put out of their houses. Now those people are being evicted from rentals.
Funny, though, how no one on the news seems to be talking about this shit, which is going on everywhere around this area, which is going on in other areas according to my friends and family. I agree - extending unemployment is a bad idea. WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK. Yes, even if it's make work because that will enable people to at least buy the basics instead of winding up in homeless shelters.
How do we do that? I don't fucking know. Tonight, I'm too tired to speculate. (Yes, I managed to get five whole hours of work today pulling electrical wire through conduits.) I just know that the real solution is JOBS.
Sitting here in the trenches, what we REALLY need, bottom line, is more paying work for the masses. Seriously. How many unemployed/underemployed do we have? 15 million or something? They need sufficient work to make a living. Honestly, it's that simple, the devil being in the details, as always.
If we don't put those people to work the economy will NEVER recover.
And it's not like folks are terribly, terribly fussy at this point. I know a lot of people who will settle for less than they once had if only it could be enough to put a roof over their heads and food on the table. Like me, for instance, because to be perfectly honest we aren't making it. I'm not even sure I can pay my goddamned rent next week. Happy fucking holidays. My current money runs out mid-December and if I don't get work between then and now we are out of money by New Year's. Never mind the rent - I mean out of money as in "we can't buy food this week".
I am college educated with a sterling work record. I have been looking for work for two fucking years. Were it not for friends, one of whom is employing me at least a little, we would have lost our home, everything we own, and if we were lucky living in a spare bedroom in my sister's house in Buffalo. That may still happen if things don't get better for us very soon.
This is what happened to two intelligent, educated people who had no debt and actual savings in the bank. Other folks did not fare so well. We are getting at least one eviction a week in the immediate neighborhood. First it was people being put out of their houses. Now those people are being evicted from rentals.
Funny, though, how no one on the news seems to be talking about this shit, which is going on everywhere around this area, which is going on in other areas according to my friends and family. I agree - extending unemployment is a bad idea. WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK. Yes, even if it's make work because that will enable people to at least buy the basics instead of winding up in homeless shelters.
How do we do that? I don't fucking know. Tonight, I'm too tired to speculate. (Yes, I managed to get five whole hours of work today pulling electrical wire through conduits.) I just know that the real solution is JOBS.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Stimulus won't work period, unless we have a jobs program.
Of course, the chorus of the worshippers of the deficits-cause-all-ills cult is already loud, so I doubt it'll happen.
BTW, how can something Obama tried to stop be his 'Katrina'? Katrina's disaster wasn't tried to be mitigitated, alleviated, or anything.
Of course, the chorus of the worshippers of the deficits-cause-all-ills cult is already loud, so I doubt it'll happen.
BTW, how can something Obama tried to stop be his 'Katrina'? Katrina's disaster wasn't tried to be mitigitated, alleviated, or anything.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
The argument is that he didn't do anything to stop it.SirNitram wrote:Stimulus won't work period, unless we have a jobs program.
Of course, the chorus of the worshippers of the deficits-cause-all-ills cult is already loud, so I doubt it'll happen.
BTW, how can something Obama tried to stop be his 'Katrina'?
Bush sent in FEMA; Obama sent in Larry and Timmy. The article explicitly draws this analogy.Katrina's disaster wasn't tried to be mitigitated, alleviated, or anything.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
I know I'd sure like a jobs program. I've been semi-employed and on unemployment the entire time Obama's been President. I got laid off a week before election day, 2008.
The fact that the banks have it better off isn't really helping me at all.
The fact that the banks have it better off isn't really helping me at all.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
On top of that I'd add that at least FEMA does at least help with disaster relief, even if at the time it was pretty damn incompetent. Obama sending in Larry & Timmy is actually worse since those two assclowns helped cause the economic meltdown in the first place, it's like calling in a pyromaniac to help with putting out a house fire. Funniest part is Jamie Dimon's name is now being floated as a possible replacement for Turbotax Timmy, yeah, can you say "conflict of interest"? Well, since the Goldman-Sachs mafia doesn't seem to be too popular these days, let's give JP Morgan some representation. Maybe they can find a spot for Ken Lewis (Bank of America CEO) too while they're at it.Master of Ossus wrote:Bush sent in FEMA; Obama sent in Larry and Timmy. The article explicitly draws this analogy.Katrina's disaster wasn't tried to be mitigitated, alleviated, or anything.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me.
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Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
You've hit it on the nosy. I'm unemployed, my bro (see above) is unemployed, and both my neighbors are unemployed. I'm a college-educated mechanical engineer, and I can't get graveyard at a machine shop. So, unless the banks are going to start bailing US out, I'm not terribly enthusiastic about their good fortune.CaptainChewbacca wrote:I know I'd sure like a jobs program. I've been semi-employed and on unemployment the entire time Obama's been President. I got laid off a week before election day, 2008.
The fact that the banks have it better off isn't really helping me at all.
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Captain of the MFS Frigate of Pizazz +2 vs. Douchebags - Est vicis pro nonnullus suscito vir
"Are you an idiot? What demand do you think there is for aircraft carriers that aren't government?" - Captain Chewbacca
"I keep my eighteen wives in wonderfully appointed villas by bringing the underwear of god to the heathens. They will come to know God through well protected goodies." - Gandalf
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
America has arguably been on a gradual downward slope since the conclusion of the Vietnam War, the United States of America is probably in a similar position to Bourbon France in the 1870s/80s (no real starving yet, but it's in some ways worse, what with the strained global resources and enviromental damage). America's corrupt corporate elite has induced severe paralysis in the Federal government through its lobbyists and supporters, they're like foxes constantly at the henhouse, and still Obama tolerates them. The rising spate of rightwing violence and anger although ignorant, criminal, and misguided, is the never the less symptoms of a broken down economic system (how many of these Fundie/Neo-Nazi/Survivalist mooks had chronic employment and financial problems?).
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
What does this even mean? Is there some international standard for what is "up" and what is "down"? What is being valued - civil rights, economic might, military power, government services like health care, etc? For example, some might say that valuing the rights of all people, including racial minorities, is the highest value, and America has gone up since the 1960s in that area. Or, others might say that having universal health care is one of the most important things, and America certainly hasn't gone up as far as that is concerned. You need to establish some sort of criteria before making a blanket statement like that.Big Orange wrote:America has arguably been on a gradual downward slope since the conclusion of the Vietnam War ...
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Leaving aside the fact that Obama is a centrist. What exactly would you expect him to do, Big Orange? I can't really think of much of anything that he or any other politician, regardless of political leaning, could do to change situation for the better in a short amount of time. At least not without the corprate intrests riling up the average idiot in this country to potentially dangerous levels. Look at what the health care industry is doing over healthcare reform, can you even imagine what would happen if you threw the banks and Wall Street into the mix? That is without even considering what the other corprate intrestests would do if they were threatened, or percieved possible threat to themselves. This is a truly shitty situation brought on by decades of problems in this country culminating to a head at this particular time, and unfortunately will take decades if not whole generations to solve (assuming it is actually possible to extricate ourselves from the current mess).
Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Do you enjoy raping history much, BO?Big Orange wrote:America has arguably been on a gradual downward slope since the conclusion of the Vietnam War, the United States of America is probably in a similar position to Bourbon France in the 1870s/80s (no real starving yet, but it's in some ways worse, what with the strained global resources and enviromental damage). America's corrupt corporate elite has induced severe paralysis in the Federal government through its lobbyists and supporters, they're like foxes constantly at the henhouse, and still Obama tolerates them. The rising spate of rightwing violence and anger although ignorant, criminal, and misguided, is the never the less symptoms of a broken down economic system (how many of these Fundie/Neo-Nazi/Survivalist mooks had chronic employment and financial problems?).
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Rising rightwing violence in america is a symptom of a broken economic system? The fuck you say?
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Job Corps, Americorps, and National Able Netowork have recieved huge increases in government funding over the past few months. Granted Americorps ins'tt exactly a jobs program but it works in a pinch to stem the tide of college age employables swamping the market by giving them a legitimate activity for a year.SirNitram wrote:Stimulus won't work period, unless we have a jobs program.
Of course, the chorus of the worshippers of the deficits-cause-all-ills cult is already loud, so I doubt it'll happen.
BTW, how can something Obama tried to stop be his 'Katrina'? Katrina's disaster wasn't tried to be mitigitated, alleviated, or anything.
it always struck me as astounding that the Republican party could simultaneously decry the need for l;arge unwieldy government, and still point out the government doesn't do enough. You wnat more jobs programs? Fine dump more money into Vocational rehabilitation so they can have a caseload that isn't rediculous.
The one in my city has four counselors for over 3,000 participants, how do you even SEE all those people?? Our employment progam is weven worse, they autofunnel all applciants intto a "Working Futures" program for six weeks" than a "Workplace success" class which covers really rudimentary material but serves to slow the intake rate, the same way an automated telephone system pretty much stalls you until a representative can be available.
No case can really be made about obama being absent from the discussion, he addresses employment pretty much weekly. He tried the Stimulus bill, he tried cash for clunkers, he's working on restructuring ehalthcare... he's definitely working on the issues, but his opposition isn't stupid enough to acknowledge that his disparate efforts have a common objective.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Since Reagan faced even higher unemployment at a similar point in his presidential career, and went on to get a second term, high unemployment on its own does not ensure mass discontent. Obama's team is actually trying a similar 'shout very loudly that everything is getting better and hope reality falls into line with fantasy' strategy. Reagan had two major advantages though; the population was well aware that they'd been in a depression for several years (with OPEC as convenient scapegoats) and the jobs from the recovery couldn't easily be exported to cheaper countries. The current US population suffers from both a short memory and denial of the real state of the economy through most of Bush's second term, pushing more blame onto the current administration, plus globalisation is still in overdrive with China and India are eagerly taking over more of the value chain (i.e. R&D, product design, marketing) than ever before.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Huh, so what explained the rise in right-wing populist anger during the Clinton era, Orange, when the economy was strong?*
As to what Obama could do, or could have done quickly, would have been to resurrect the Glass-Steagal act so that the foxes would not be charged with guarding their own henhouses.
* I know the economy was based on a bubble, at the time, but it was "strong" in public perception and acted thusly; we had a budget surplus even if it was partially on a foundation of sand.
As to what Obama could do, or could have done quickly, would have been to resurrect the Glass-Steagal act so that the foxes would not be charged with guarding their own henhouses.
* I know the economy was based on a bubble, at the time, but it was "strong" in public perception and acted thusly; we had a budget surplus even if it was partially on a foundation of sand.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
Themightytom wrote:No case can really be made about obama being absent from the discussion, he addresses employment pretty much weekly. He tried the Stimulus bill, he tried cash for clunkers, he's working on restructuring healthcare... he's definitely working on the issues, but his opposition isn't stupid enough to acknowledge that his disparate efforts have a common objective.
It's busywork at best, he still refuses to deal with the elephant in the room, in other words, stop the goddamn fraud, looting, and other blatantly illegal activities in the banks, the Fed, the Treasury, and the rest of the financial system, prosecute the perps and get the bad & fraudulent debts cleared out of the system. Until that's done the economy will be on life support at best because people will refuse to lend & invest in an obviously rigged financial system. This is why America is experiencing capital outflows and why the US dollar now provides the primary funding for currency carry trades. Ask Japan how well this worked out for them, even with thier advantage of being an export economy as opposed to the US which is a consumer import economy.
Actually he didn't, thanks to Clinton and the changes he made in BLS survey methods & models in the early 90's. In Reagan's day the headline U-3 unemployment number was calculated in a way which would give results somewhere between those given by the current U-4 and U-5 numbers, which are broader measures of unemployment and give higher numbers than U-3. Then back out the ~824,000 (and counting) jobs which were fictitiously created by the birth/death model adjustments and the actually unemployment rate is in the 11-12% range if measured in the same way as in '82-83.Starglider wrote:Since Reagan faced even higher unemployment at a similar point in his presidential career, and went on to get a second term, high unemployment on its own does not ensure mass discontent.
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Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
I wouldn't say the hardship of the average American would compare to 18th century French hardship when half of all children died before the age of ten and the average life expectency was 25, but in modern day America having 10% of American citizens owning 70.9% of all assets when perhaps 16% of Americans are in poverty seems unbalanced and almost aristocratic to me. I've collated stats on US wealth distribution that I can post tomorrow.Thanas wrote: Do you enjoy raping history much, BO?
The decline of America after the Vietnam War is only relative and hard perceive, but at the same time the Vietnam War was still ruinously expensive ($584 billion) and domestic oil extraction irreversibly peaked around that period (as did other forms of extraction temporarily). And why did the US Space Program deflate after 1970, geopolitical priorities aside?
And economic hardship fueling political extremism, no matter how illogical or ostensively unrelated the ideological motive is (like racism against Obama), is not a completely groundless assumption when the US Department of Homeland Security collated an essay on the subject.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...' - Dr. Evil
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
'Secondly, I don't see why "income inequality" is a bad thing. Poverty is not an injustice. There is no such thing as causes for poverty, only causes for wealth. Poverty is not a wrong, but taking money from those who have it to equalize incomes is basically theft, which is wrong.' - Typical Randroid
'I think it's gone a little bit wrong.' - The Doctor
Re: Will The Unemployment Disaster Be Obama's Katrina?
So in other words, you made the comparison with the Bourbon years...why?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs