SDN Diplomacy #2: Comments Thread

[Spoonist]

An introduction is in order.

I have not played diplomacy for 6-7 years, the last time being at a convention where I was soundly beaten and as if by coincidence that was england then as well... But some 10-12 years ago I played diplomacy regularly (albeit usually unsuccessfully) so I know the bitter pain of a dagger in my back and also the basics of the rules etc.

Regarding rules, a question for Duckie which I htink has not been covered. How fierce will you be with the newbie france if he forgets his coasts when writing orders? Or if someone writes an F instead of A etc?

Now I have been assigned to help you resolve the problem with leadership in england, I can assure you that the coup has been quite successful and that no parties of the old governement remains.

As a last comment you can reach me through PM's but mind that I'm located at GM+1 , which would be central europe for you on the earlier side of the atlantic.

[Duckie]

If only one logical interpretation of an order is possible in my opinion, I will accept that order. If I feel an order is ambiguous, I will void it. If I do not notice an error, it will not be voided, so minor errors will probably slip by. There is no standard format I require, but for newbies the best way to avoid ambiguity is to not use standard dip abbreviations. Instead of writing:
(some random orders that occur to me, possible or not in the current situation)
F Sev - Bla
F Arm S F Sev - Bla
A Syr Holds
A Smy S A Syr H
F Nth C A Yor - Nor

just write
Fleet Sevastapol moves to Black Sea
Fleet Armenia Supports Fleet Sevastapol's move to Black Sea
Army Syria Holds
Army Smyrna Supports Army Syria's Hold
Fleet North Sea Convoys Army York to Norway

that way there's no real chance of error unless you have a major lack of knowledge about the rules and try, purposefully or not, to do something illegal such as move a fleet inland or convoy on land or the like.

If you mark (void) and/or purposefully make a mistake and point it out to me, I will void the order without noting that down. There's got to be a use for this fact for somebody some time, so I'm noting it down.

[Spoonist]

England: OK (obviuosly)
Austria: OK
Germany: OK
France: OK if standard move
Russia: Ambivalent - Random - then OK if this is the standard move
Ottoman: OK
Italy: Unknown
I think that it is fair to say that the statistics provided by Duckie showed that this was indeed a standard opening.
So unless Italy shows up and has strong objections about this I will act as if england made the standard spring move.
If Italy does have strong objections (or Russia changes his mind, after all he has the most to lose from all of this) then note that I have sent alternative orders to Duckie.

->JonB (edit - and Lord Relvenous)
Something which is typical to miss as a newbie is that some countries have two coasts. In northern russia StP it is obviuos which coast you go to and come from so that is usually never a problem. But when giving an order to move a fleet from Mid-Atlantic Ocean to Spain for instance, there is a north coast and a south coast. If you would move to the NC that fleet could then only reach Mid/Gas/Por while the SC could reach Por/Mid/Wes/GoL/Mar. Bulgaria is similar.
Now if you do not specify which coast a fleet goes to how is the arbitrer to decide this? Well that is really up to the arbitrer but I have seen some variants:
1) Random selection
2) Void the move and consider it a Hold order
3) If its a newbie pick whatever seems to be the most prudent and if a regular the least prudent.
4) Let the board vote.
Now Duckie has said that if he feels that it is ambigiuos he will void it, so take care to specify which coast you want if you move a fleet to spain. (If you manage to get in trouble in Bulgaria, I would say that you have been pulling our leg and was no newbie after all and you deserve to get that voided... )

[Duckie]

Counting public and private votes, a supermajority of players have stated that it'd be best just to pretend england made a northern opening.

I will for now act under the assumption that England has made its moves in accordance with a large majority of player's wishes for the opening game to not be as unbalanced.

Any further conversation on this matter may go here or in my PM box depending upon who you want it to be talked to.

[Narkis]

I still don't feel OK with this time travel, but I think that's now caused more by these specific moves rather than the rule-breaking itself. I've thought about it, and I would certainly feel better if England had moved against France from the beginning, for example. So in the interest of fairness I'll withdraw my objection to the time travel.

[Duckie]

Please note that the gates of time are now sealed. While the exceptional case of Britain not moving in Spring 1901 which would seriously unbalance the western triangle enough that all or almost all people appear to have concurred it would be more fun to have Britain have retroactively moved, I highly doubt in the future anyone will be able to get near-unanimous support for 'please bend the rules for me', since the zero-sum nature of diplomacy is approaching very fast in terms of neutrals remaining.

[Lord Relvenous]

Sorry I'm late to the discussion guys, had to pull a double shift at work. I'm fine with the solution proposed, though I think the decision has already been made. Just wanted to make sure you guys knew I wasn't ignoring you on purpose.

[Spoonist]

Is it just me that is unaccostumed to this board's PM system or do some PM take a long time to be delivered?
Why do they just 'hang' in the outbox after being properly submitted? Or is this dependent on when the receiver 'opens' the message? Because it seems that one can edit the message endlessly while it is in the outbox...

[Duckie]

Is it just me that is unaccostumed to this board's PM system or do some PM take a long time to be delivered?
Why do they just 'hang' in the outbox after being properly submitted? Or is this dependent on when the receiver 'opens' the message? Because it seems that one can edit the message endlessly while it is in the outbox...

The outbox is for unopened letters. You can continue to edit a letter up until it's read. The sent items box is for PMs which have been opened.

In light of a member of my family going into surgery and my need to thus be driving at midnight GST, posting of F1901 results will be somewhere between 5 and 7 hours late. Orders are still due at 11:59:59 GST today, in 2 hours and 50 minutes, so hurry up and finalise if you have not yet.

[Spoonist]

Ah, then I understand, thank you.

In light of a member of my family going into surgery and my need to thus be driving at midnight GST.

Here is to hoping that all goes as well as possible.

[JonB]

Indeed. Best of health and speedy recovery to your family.

[Lord Relvenous]

I hope everything went smoothly Duckie.

[Duckie]

Okay, so, everything is fine. 16 hours late, but I'll give everyone an extra day. Results in Fall 1901 coming out in the main thread in a few minutes.

Apologies for the delay.

Build Orders are due by Saturday.

[Thirdfain]

Wiener Zeitung
12 August, 1901

Victory!

After heavy fighting around Thessalonika, the Mohametan legions of the Grand Turk were thrown back in disarray. Crusading regiments of the Imperial and Royal Army returned to their bases in Belgrade to parade for our beloved Kaiser Franz Josef, who bestowed decorations on the many soldiers who exhibited great courage. The King of the Greeks thanked His Imperial and Royal Majesty for his efforts in saving Hellas from what would undoubtedly have been a brutal and vicious occupation.

[Spoonist]

In other news from around the globe.

To direct the media to something else than the Dreyfus affair, Émile Loubet has invaded both Spain and Portugal.
The Romans have again spread salt over the fields of Carthage.
Albeit being only 17, Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill has convinced the parliament of the need for steel and has thus lead to the preemptive liberation of Narvik.
Nicholas II has developed a new version of "gunboat diplomacy" something which the attendees of the Hague Peace Convention all agree was not in the code of conduct. Rumania puts in a formal protest.
The Chancellor Bernhard von Bülow has ended the Schleswig affair 40 years after the treaty and has also accepted the responsibility of protecting the flanderers from their oppressors.
Celebrating a honeymoon with his sixth wife the sultan has aqcuired his wife a summer residence in the beylerbeylik eastern Rumelia.

[JonB]

Now the part of me that is supposed to be writing for money wants to write up semi-annual newpaper styled reports on the diplomatic front. CURSE YOU SPOONIST!

[Thirdfain]

Why, can't there be more than one newspaper?

[Spoonist]

Now the part of me that is supposed to be writing for money wants to write up semi-annual newpaper styled reports on the diplomatic front. CURSE YOU SPOONIST!

If that is the case disregard my headlines and think of them as the paper boy shouting down the street. I bet you could do a better job.
Papers! Papers! Come and get your papers! The powers of europe at war. Read all about it. Papers!

[Duckie]

Winter 1901 (Build Phase, that is) posted (1 hour post-deadline, as usual). Your spring phase of the second year has begun. Deadline is 11:59:59 GST on Wednesday.

[Narkis]

I'm very sorry, but something's happened and I'll have to curtail all my extracurricular activities, including internet use and Diplomacy. Nice game everyone, I hope you'll find a replacement in time.

[Spoonist]

I'm very sorry, but something's happened and I'll have to curtail all my extracurricular activities, including internet use and Diplomacy. Nice game everyone, I hope you'll find a replacement in time.

Bummer. Sorry to hear that.
Then all that is left is to quote Thirdfain.

Hah, so very typical of web diplomacy!

[Thirdfain]

A real shame! And just when I'd completely destroyed any chance of our working together

[JonB]

Awwww. I hope we find your replacement soon, and that you give them a good hand in sliding into their new position.

[JonB]

Given that tomorrow is the end of the time available to submit orders, have we found our new Russian Czar yet?

[Duckie]

Despite communist uprisings in Russia and Italy (also dropped out?) Spring 1902 has come and passed. Some surprising moves from powers.

Questions and Answers:
Q. What will happen to the game?
A. I intend to keep doing these until only one person remains. Whether this is by people dropping out or force of arms, it matters not. The winner will be the last one standing in either case whether it be by being the last person to submit orders after everyone drops out, or all players still in the game may choose to draw. If everyone drops out in the same week then it will be counted as a draw among those players who submitted orders last week.

Q. Why would you care about winning in such a case?
A. Why not?

Q. Are you searching for a substitute Russia or Italy?
A. Are you? No, seriously.

Q. Why did Turkey's moves fail?
A. You can only support an army into an adjacent province. Think about those poor turks in Istanbul trying to shoot across the black sea to give supporting fire to the bulgarian army. It's silly.

Q. Why did Russia's fleet vanish?
A. Players who do not return orders cannot give retreat orders. Russia and Italy are in Civil Disorder until they are reclaimed by their players or a substitute in a spring or fall turn.