New GOP Tactic: Encourage revolution via billboard.

[Patrick Degan]

True Texan:

Love the sign! We need a few of those signs down here in Texas!

Yep, and they'll be popular right up until the next swine flu outbreak hits and you're all wondering where the Feds are with the tamiflu.

The 2nd Amendment was written to give American Citizens the power to overthrow a corrupt government if the need arises. As the sign clearly states, we should first try to change our corrupt government through peaceful measures -- pay as few taxes as legally possible and vote out all incumbents -- and if that does not work, then we must resort to other measures.

Because we all know how a bunch of morons with shotguns and hunting rifles are going to beat a modern army. SHUUUUUUUUUUUUURE they will...

I think Mark Twain once said that the Civil War was started by too many Southern gentlemen who grew up reading novels by Sir Walter Scott. The current Civil War II agitators must be the generation who grew up watching Red Yawn a few too many times on the VCR.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Please stop discussing the construction of IEDS. Yes, I know there are lots of sources on the interwebs and a fundie more likely than not isn't going to look here. But all the same, please stop.

for one thing after that april fools day prank got us on the FBI's list, we don't want to give them any more buzz words to harrass and look into a bunch of Sci - Fi nerds. that many of us are students of history should probably be doubly distubing to them too.

---edit---

I also note the resurgence of states rights idjits on some other web board, I did make a snarky comment to one of them, that I don't care if your bible belt state is red or not, just as long as you guys don't ever think of trying to go Grey, remember what happened last time, and theres worse things in our national arsenal then Willie Sherman.

[Yona]

True Texan:

Love the sign! We need a few of those signs down here in Texas!

Yep, and they'll be popular right up until the next swine flu outbreak hits and you're all wondering where the Feds are with the tamiflu.

The 2nd Amendment was written to give American Citizens the power to overthrow a corrupt government if the need arises. As the sign clearly states, we should first try to change our corrupt government through peaceful measures -- pay as few taxes as legally possible and vote out all incumbents -- and if that does not work, then we must resort to other measures.

Because we all know how a bunch of morons with shotguns and hunting rifles are going to beat a modern army. SHUUUUUUUUUUUUURE they will...

I think Mark Twain once said that the Civil War was started by too many Southern gentlemen who grew up reading novels by Sir Walter Scott. The current Civil War II agitators must be the generation who grew up watching Red Yawn a few too many times on the VCR.

That's because the freaking Southern states are ALL still fighting the Civil War. You know, the one they lost. The one THEY say they fought over "states rights", not slavery, economics or anything else, "states rights". The "right" they still insist they had to enslave other human beings to increase their "profit margins" on the ole "Farm".

I know quite a few people in Texas. Over 90% of them are of this opinion. The other 10% are people that moved there from somewhere else. They are the only sane ones.

They can have all those signs in Texas. It just proves again and again how fucked up the "Southern Mentality" is.

Maybe Mexico would be interested in buying Texas. Then the "Texans" could turn all that insanity on something that REALLY needs it. The Mexican drug war.

[The Romulan Republic]

for one thing after that april fools day prank got us on the FBI's list, we don't want to give them any more buzz words to harrass and look into a bunch of Sci - Fi nerds. that many of us are students of history should probably be doubly distubing to them too.

Really? SDN's on an FBI list? Pardon my ignorance, but when did this happen?

[Simon_Jester]

That's because the freaking Southern states are ALL still fighting the Civil War. You know, the one they lost.

You'd think the ones who have seen what happens after artillery fire would try to snap the others out of it.

I don't know why they don't.

[The Yosemite Bear]

for one thing after that april fools day prank got us on the FBI's list, we don't want to give them any more buzz words to harrass and look into a bunch of Sci - Fi nerds. that many of us are students of history should probably be doubly distubing to them too.

Really? SDN's on an FBI list? Pardon my ignorance, but when did this happen?

well they ARE watching us, mostly because of folks we've banned in the past, including a few people who posted Pedo/Nambla links here, so they are watching us, mostly to make sure no ones using this web board for bad things. Oh and the links are long gone. The adult links are elsewhere, but that's between consenting adults, and not illegal outside of Utah/Texas.

[Gil Hamilton]

Please stop discussing the construction of IEDS. Yes, I know there are lots of sources on the interwebs and a fundie more likely than not isn't going to look here. But all the same, please stop.

I didn't discuss the actual synthesis for producing the explosive substance itself, how to build a device, or how to detonate it. I'm just saying that a supply of 155mm shells isn't necessary to producing an IEDs, it just acts as a ready made device. Any damn fool who actually tries to gin up explosives in their garage is likely to kill precisely one person and that's themselves.

[Yona]

That's because the freaking Southern states are ALL still fighting the Civil War. You know, the one they lost.

You'd think the ones who have seen what happens after artillery fire would try to snap the others out of it.

I don't know why they don't.

I know people down there that have gun and ammunition stashes buried in their yards. They WANT this to happen.

They are so filled up with hate and their own "righteousness" that nothing else matters to them.

Fucking brain dead idiots !

Are you sure we can't give them to another country ?

[Coyote]

I'd love to let them go again. Maybe I'll start a political action committee: Northerners for Southern Secession. The NSS thinks that the South has a, um, rich and proud history and distinct culture and they rightfully deserve to follow their own path, politically, on the global stage. We invite the South the rise again and we'll help build a big border wall along the Mason-Dixon line. There, they can flush themselves down the toilet enjoy their rich cultural heritage and marry their sisters pursue happiness their own unique way. Someday, when they're all retarded as fuck and dying from inbreeding we can retake the real estate we can open diplomatic relations and go into the future as peers and equals.

[Chocolate Kiwii]

That's because the freaking Southern states are ALL still fighting the Civil War. You know, the one they lost.

You'd think the ones who have seen what happens after artillery fire would try to snap the others out of it.

I don't know why they don't.

Because the people talking this crazy shit are ignorant to the point that it would be like explaining logistics to chimpanzees; sure they might get the gist of it, and may even be able to recognize the facts: but knowing and comprehending are two differnt things.
These morons hear about the founding fathers and how a rag tag militia fought the vast British empire to a standstill, they idolize Rambo, and jerk off idealized to theself-sufficiency in Road-House and thousand other such fantasies of the lone-man making a difference. They spend there evenings drunkenly describing how their presence would have changed everything had they been in Waco.
They don't understand that the industrialization of war obliterated the relevance of personal bravery, and know-how the second the government started arming it's troops with Gatling guns.

I have spoken to some of these people and their idea of rebellion sounds a great deal like camping, but with less restrictions and more guns.
These people have no idea the horror of watching friends and family disintegrated by shell-fire, the instantaneous loss of all family ties when a bombed roof caves in on your kin, knowing that any second now you could either be in a tremendous amount of seering agony or just a tattered corpse. They can't imagine what it's like to actually live without electricity, diapers, clean water, and medicine. Getting rid of bodies so they don't poison the surroundings, gardening and bivouacking in lands that are direct reference to your enemies positions as opposed to what ever hopes you had for choice camping.
These people have never been starved, or even really been sick really.
Hell even the would-be rebels with actual military experience? Their entire point of reference is as a soldier underneath the wealthiest, and most generous military in the world!
They just don't know what it's like to lose a quarter of your forces to Malaria or dysentery. They can't. They don't have the reference.

[Yona]

I'd love to let them go again. Maybe I'll start a political action committee: Northerners for Southern Secession. The NSS thinks that the South has a, um, rich and proud history and distinct culture and they rightfully deserve to follow their own path, politically, on the global stage. We invite the South the rise again and we'll help build a big border wall along the Mason-Dixon line. There, they can flush themselves down the toilet enjoy their rich cultural heritage and marry their sisters pursue happiness their own unique way. Someday, when they're all retarded as fuck and dying from inbreeding we can retake the real estate we can open diplomatic relations and go into the future as peers and equals.

Get rid of Texas and South Carolina. Mexico would probably buy Texas, and then sell the Oil back to us at a discount.

I don't know anyone who would want SC.

We need to keep Arizona. It may be "Beach Front" in a few decades.

[Serafine666]

The irony of the furor over this billboard is that it is an effective summary of how the 13 colonies came to declare themselves independent and start a revolt: the government that ruled them was imposing increasing economic costs on them, enforceable at the point of a gun and possibly being hauled across the Atlantic to be tried in a military tribunal. If this wasn't enough, the government remained consistently indifferent and oppressive no matter who was in office... and the colonists could not elect their own representatives and beyond that, recognized that doing so would be pointless since a person weeks if not months away by ship could not possibly represent the feelings of the colonies. Neither attempting to starve the beast nor voting incumbents out of office did any good and so, the colonies prepared for armed resistance and eventually, a war.

I think this is mainly a result of someone getting way too carried away; "vote the bums out of office" is an amazingly effective way to dramatically change the government. I mean, look at the most recent election: we got a white Southern "cowboy" who was so sure of himself that he jumped first and thought later, was regularly dissed by the "cultured" Europeans, couldn't have gotten a Nobel prize for anything, and spent money on a mildly timid basis and replaced him with a black northern state senator who studies issues out exhaustively, is practically fawned upon by the Europeans, got awarded a Nobel prize, and isn't at all shy about spending money. Such was the result of just one election... yet people think this isn't a dramatic enough change?

[Duckie]

Bush was timid about spending money?

[Chocolate Kiwii]

I'd love to let them go again. Maybe I'll start a political action committee: Northerners for Southern Secession. The NSS thinks that the South has a, um, rich and proud history and distinct culture and they rightfully deserve to follow their own path, politically, on the global stage. We invite the South the rise again and we'll help build a big border wall along the Mason-Dixon line. There, they can flush themselves down the toilet enjoy their rich cultural heritage and marry their sisters pursue happiness their own unique way. Someday, when they're all retarded as fuck and dying from inbreeding we can retake the real estate we can open diplomatic relations and go into the future as peers and equals.

Get rid of Texas and South Carolina. Mexico would probably buy Texas, and then sell the Oil back to us at a discount.

I don't know anyone who would want SC.

We need to keep Arizona. It may be "Beach Front" in a few decades.

Don't be daft.

My states economy is one of the most most pliant and, and diversified of all 50 states. We have one of the lowest unemployment even during the current crisis, we have a larger population than New York, we are the biggest rancher, we are home to the most medically advanced city in the world, were a rich port state, we are the womb of nano-technology (And still maintain the highest concentration of nano focused engineers and research), second largest producer of soldiers, we have half a dozen internationally renowned universities, and we are going to be a key state in the future of energy.

Getting rid of Texas would be like getting rid of California, New York, Illinois, or Florida.

And on top of all that, of all of the Southern and red states we are the only state that actually pays more in federal taxes than we receive in assistance, if we go it's going to be with the respect and admiration of our neighbors (The stupid segments of their populations anyway.).

[Serafine666]

Bush was timid about spending money?

In comparison to his successor, yes, but not in isolation. Bush was a spendthrift but his successor spends much more.

[Chocolate Kiwii]

Oh. And of the most populous twenty cities in the U.S.A, five of them are in Texas.

So I'm justified in saying that allowing Texas to secede would be like allowing gangrene in your toe to rot off your entire leg. When your country has a Single Payer system. And your apartment is next to a major hospital. And your domestic partner is offering to carry you because the smell is working his nerves. And there's nothing good on television. And the internets down. And your too sore for sex.

[Aasharu]

In comparison to his successor, yes, but not in isolation. Bush was a spendthrift but his successor spends much more.

Do you have numbers for this?

[Tanasinn]

Oh. And of the most populous twenty cities in the U.S.A, five of them are in Texas.

So I'm justified in saying that allowing Texas to secede would be like allowing gangrene in your toe to rot off your entire leg. When your country has a Single Payer system. And your apartment is next to a major hospital. And your domestic partner is offering to carry you because the smell is working his nerves. And there's nothing good on television. And the internets down. And your too sore for sex.

Just curious, are you going to continue to respond to obvious, thickly sarcastic hyperbole as if it were a serious suggestion? I need to know if I should just scroll past your posts when I see your name.

[Serafine666]

In comparison to his successor, yes, but not in isolation. Bush was a spendthrift but his successor spends much more.

Do you have numbers for this?

That Bush was a spendthrift or that his successor spends (or, perhaps, it's more accurate to say his administration projects to spend) much more?

Federal Debt From 9/30/2000 to 9/30/2009 According to this, throughout his presidency, Bush spent $6,102,365,591,311.69 (I start at 2001 since that is the first year that Bush would have had a budget and was thus directly responsible for spending). I think that should satisfy any question of Bush being a spendthrift, don't you agree?

The second part, about Obama's spending in comparison, is a little more complicated simply because this isn't the year 2017 and we cannot know exactly what was spent. We can only rely on what his administration itself believes that it will spend over the next 10 years. Reuters reports on new Obama Administration deficit projections To quote, "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration will raise its 10-year budget deficit projection to approximately $9 trillion from $7.108 trillion in a report next week, a senior administration official told Reuters on Friday."
and
"The White House took heat for sticking with its $7.108 trillion forecast earlier this year after the Congressional Budget Office forecast that deficits between 2010 and 2019 would total $9.1 trillion."
Also look here Wall Street Journal report agreeing with Reuters and here Washginton Post emphasizing the same
Now, obviously, neither we nor the Obama Administration can know of an absolute surety how much will be spent but Obama's administration itself believes that it will spend between 3 and 3.3 trillion more than Bush did. Whether this qualifies as "much more" is up to individual judgement, of course, but I think that spending 133% as much as Bush has qualifies.

[montypython]

If there were a serious secessionist tendency to develop, I'd expect such groups to start resembling the IRA or ETA in action and political agitation more than the typical grousing on Fox News et al.

[Chocolate Kiwii]

Just curious, are you going to continue to respond to obvious, thickly sarcastic hyperbole as if it were a serious suggestion? I need to know if I should just scroll past your posts when I see your name.

Considering what I hear from a great many posters about the great state of Texas: I assumed he was dead serious.

[Serafine666]

If there were a serious secessionist tendency to develop, I'd expect such groups to start resembling the IRA or ETA in action and political agitation more than the typical grousing on Fox News et al.

No kidding. One would sort of expect serious secessionist tendencies to look more like fanatics blowing up cars, collecting RPGs, and assassinating government officials rather than big whiny billboards, bitching on message boards, and in-the-good-old-days nostalgia.

[Simon_Jester]

Oh. And of the most populous twenty cities in the U.S.A, five of them are in Texas.

So I'm justified in saying that allowing Texas to secede would be like allowing gangrene in your toe to rot off your entire leg. When your country has a Single Payer system. And your apartment is next to a major hospital. And your domestic partner is offering to carry you because the smell is working his nerves. And there's nothing good on television. And the internets down. And your too sore for sex.

I'm not sure I agree. Losing Texas would reduce the US's economic strength, but the reduction per person would not be as great as the absolute reduction. Losing Texas would force Texans to confront international issues without the support of the larger US, which would force them to behave more responsibly. Losing Texas would free the rest of the US from the influence of the sort of politicians who can get elected in Texas, many of whom are corrupt, idiotic, or both.

Losing Texas would shift the American political balance in favor of the party (somewhat) less likely to engage in idiotic foreign adventurism, and (statistically) more likely to enact (relatively) sane domestic policies. It remove from the equation the main reason that American textbooks are forced to take bizarre gibberish like Young Earth Creationism seriously: the Texas school system.

All in all, I think it might be a net gain, sort of like going on a diet that causes you to lose one pound of muscle and nine pounds of flab. The end product is likely to be healthier, all else being equal.

If there were a serious secessionist tendency to develop, I'd expect such groups to start resembling the IRA or ETA in action and political agitation more than the typical grousing on Fox News et al.

No kidding. One would sort of expect serious secessionist tendencies to look more like fanatics blowing up cars, collecting RPGs, and assassinating government officials rather than big whiny billboards, bitching on message boards, and in-the-good-old-days nostalgia.

Duly noted.

The real concern is whether what we see now will inspire a smaller, harder-core movement of car-bombing, bazooka-collecting types.

[Aasharu]

Eh, I'd argue that the emergence of any serious right-wing terrorist organization would serve to massively alienate the general populace from the republican party, and, if the current administration had even a single brain cell, would also help to unite all but the most hard core conservative hold outs behind the administration. I imagine Homeland Security would also move to stomp out such a movement before it gained much sway.

I wonder how governments elsewhere reacted to the formation of terrorist groups in their country. Anyone with a good knowledge of history to enlighten us?

[Yona]

Actually, the state (Texas) itself is not that bad. The land itself is useful.

We just need to get rid of the over bearing, self absorbed idiots that populate it. They seem to think they run the whole freaking country.

All those fools calling for rebellion and such need to go form their own country.

I'm sure there is an Island somewhere these fools can remake into their idea of paradise. You know, dig a few holes, bury a few guns, persecute a few "non-believers", etc, etc.