Is the Fire Nation Steampunk?

[Koolaidkirby]

Additionally, HOW the F do the Firebenders win over waterbenders? That defies logic

Fire evaporates water. And fire is quite useful in forging and metal working.

Water douses fire, the two are thematic counterpoints, but as displayed in the show waterbenders can make water freeze and vapor condense. Somehow waterbenders can control temperature, how is fire a problem for them? Especially when they can immobilize their opponents in ice so they can't move?

The two styles seem to control temperature, so the tie goes to... um the waterbenders who get super powers every full moon rather than waiting 100 years for a comet.

Logistically, How did the Firenavy achieve naval superiority in the first place??? Even the world of the Avatar seems to have enough ocean that water power should dominate.

Well there were only 2 enemies that they were fighting (considering the air benders were wiped out at the very beggining of the war) and most of the fighting was taking place against the earth kingdom, the water tribe were too isolated and not really populous enough to give the fire nation much trouble from the looks of things, and seem to have been left alone for the most part (there was a 40 year gap between the siege of the north and the last time the fire nation bothered them) while they fought against the only ones who could really give them trouble, the earth kingdom (who unfortunately could only deal with fire benders with those nifty hats of theirs)

[RecklessPrudence]

Okay, I don't know how much time I've got, my internet's being all kinds of screwy lately, so:

Take all this with a large helping of salt, as I haven't seen Avatar in a while.

Somebody asked earlier how firebenders can just create fire, as opposed to all the other benders, who need their element around to bend (well, I assume airbenders need air, but the Avatar world isn't really in a position to try to prove otherwise). I believe it's related to something that, IIRC, was only said a few times throughout the show, usually when Iroh was trying to train Zuko - 'Fire is Life'. Presumably, firebender use a bit of their 'lifeforce', for want of a better word, to start the fire, then pull do something funky that allows them to recover that portion of lifeforce while simultaneously building up the fire.

All the benders seem to be able to get more of their element once they have a bit of it, as seen with Katara's waterskin, and the volume-defying amount of water that comes out of it, so the firebenders are probably using something like that.

Also, breathing seems to be more important for firebenders to control their element than anyone else, and we've seen firebenders (admittedly, usually only the 'character' ones, but I suppose you can put that down to superior training), perform feats of strength beyond anything anyone else has done, bar an Earthbender with rock gloves or something, by simply controlling their breathing. I think we've seen Zuko and Iroh snap enemies' weapons, as well as move really heavy things, and if my memory isn't playing tricks on me, 'Phoenix Lord' Ozai did some impressive punching in the final showdown with Aang. Plus, at least once, one of the firebending characters was encased in ice, and outwardly did nothing but control their breathing, and the ice melted. I think.

This would seem to provide an advantage to firebenders in confilicts, as you could never deprive them of their weapon, and you don't want to close to melee with them, either, as they'll just break you in half. This, combined with all the other factors, could provide the armies of the Fire Nation with a critical edge.

Also, a question of mine, how did the Fire Nation get warships to the four Air Temples, some of which are basically in the Earth Kingdom, or over water claimed by the Water Tribes? Could it be that there were treaties, or 'gentlemens agreements', or something, that allowed the Fire Nation to get to the Air Temples without any alarm being raised? I mean, the war hadn't started, but tensions were obviously high, and you'd think the Water Tribes would protest a fleet of warships sailing through their waters, or the Earth Kingdom to be a little concerned about the army marching over their land, when neither of them know if the Fire Nation is positioning them for best effect once war is declared!

[Zor]

Water douses fire, the two are thematic counterpoints, but as displayed in the show waterbenders can make water freeze and vapor condense. Somehow waterbenders can control temperature, how is fire a problem for them? Especially when they can immobilize their opponents in ice so they can't move?

Leaving aside the numerical, industrial and technological advantages, i am pretty sure that steam and ice create by waterbending is actually hotter or colder than it was in it's pre-manipulation state.

Zor

[hongi]

I've always wondered what the penultimate bending technique was supposed to be for Air. Maybe they share Lightning with the Firebenders?

Does anyone know the answer to this?

[Serafine666]

I've always wondered what the penultimate bending technique was supposed to be for Air. Maybe they share Lightning with the Firebenders?

Does anyone know the answer to this?

Energybending, I believe. According to the synopsis of the season finale, energybending is a "lost art" that permits a bender to remove another person's bending abilities entirely. It may be a "fifth element" technique but it's the only thing I could find that sounds ultimate but is not associated with the other elements.

[OmegaChief]

Perhaps the Ultimate Air Bending technique is somthing we've overlooked.

Like self powered flight, such as the kind seen in the grand finale

[Zor]

Perhaps the Ultimate Air Bending technique is somthing we've overlooked.

Like self powered flight, such as the kind seen in the grand finale

I don't see this being the case, with a guider self powered flight is a fairly well established airbending Technique and advanced firebenders are capable of it (at least over short distances).

Zor

[Koolaidkirby]

Perhaps the Ultimate Air Bending technique is somthing we've overlooked.

Like self powered flight, such as the kind seen in the grand finale

I don't see this being the case, with a guider self powered flight is a fairly well established airbending Technique and advanced firebenders are capable of it (at least over short distances).

Zor

well it could have been one of the many technique's we saw aang use while in the avatar state but never named, like the air forcefield thing, or maybe it could be something like weather manipulation. On a side note though its a pity you didn't see more of the airbenders, all we have to go by for a "normal" airbender is what we see in the very brief flashbacks.

But anyway, theories:
-air forcefield?(super dense air)
-on a related note, something plasma related perhaps?
-weather manipulation (can see this being very usefull)
-pulling air out of other peoples lungs? (kind of gruesome for the kid show nature)
-something to do with vacuums?

[Lord Insanity]

I always assumed that the hurricane/tornado Aang makes when he gets upset or pissed was basically the ultimate air bending move. After all there aren't too many in universe that could stop or resist an airbender if they pull that move.

[Vendetta]

-pulling air out of other peoples lungs? (kind of gruesome for the kid show nature)
-something to do with vacuums?

These are the most obvious uses of airbending for aggression. We know that an Airbender can be pretty lethal when required, as Gyatso took a fair number of Fire Nation troops with him when he died. Creating and maintaining an artificial vacuum would technically be possible with airbending, and doing so around an opponents' head would pretty swiftly inconvenience them.

Energybending, I believe. According to the synopsis of the season finale, energybending is a "lost art" that permits a bender to remove another person's bending abilities entirely. It may be a "fifth element" technique but it's the only thing I could find that sounds ultimate but is not associated with the other elements.

I think that's probably universal. It was the precursor to the four elemental forms. It also seems to be more related to the Avatar rather than airbending.

As it is, with all the airbenders dead we'll never know if they have other tricks than just air manipulation.

[Themightytom]

Well there were only 2 enemies that they were fighting (considering the air benders were wiped out at the very beggining of the war) and most of the fighting was taking place against the earth kingdom, the water tribe were too isolated and not really populous enough to give the fire nation much trouble from the looks of things, and seem to have been left alone for the most part (there was a 40 year gap between the siege of the north and the last time the fire nation bothered them) while they fought against the only ones who could really give them trouble, the earth kingdom (who unfortunately could only deal with fire benders with those nifty hats of theirs)[/quote]

Right, I can see how the airbenders were wiped out, Sozan used the comet to enhance his army's powers (And somehow got that army into the air temples as well. It's described as a sneak attack so maybe there was some kind of pretense that was created in order to smuggle the fire nation inside.)Given the Dai Li's practice of suppressing knowledge of the war, it seems the outlier regions of the Earth kingdom, such as Kyoshi and Omashu, and the southern water tribes were the first targets. over a hundred years they were whittled down. The Fire nation confirmed the last waterbender was in their prison 50 years ago and moved on the northern water tribes (Incidently Zuko's uncle probably attacked Ba Sing Se around this time.)

But with the fire nation constantly investing resources and personell in a war spanning 100 years, while simultaneously weakening its own bending by hunting dragons the water benders should have been able to hold their own a little more equally. A sparse and spread out population is a good deal for water benders, it speaks to their watery personality. Water is about push and pull, not constant resistance. Even the advanced technique Zuko's uncle developed shows this, its all about redirecting an opponent's neergy. Either the water tribe completely dropped character, and tried to make a unified stand, or the fire nation has an ungodly sized population. Seriously, after 100 years of war all over the world how is there anyone left in the firenation??

[Samuel]

Because the fire nation is in stage 2 of the demographic transition? It would result in large and constant population growth and they could be stuck there because they keep encouraging people to have more kids so they can settle colonies or provide troops for the military.

[Zor]

Because the fire nation is in stage 2 of the demographic transition? It would result in large and constant population growth and they could be stuck there because they keep encouraging people to have more kids so they can settle colonies or provide troops for the military.

The War might not also be purely continious, maybe their were periods of short campaigns of expansion the Earth Kingdom to conquer Shang Province or whatever followed by reletively long periods of holding the line and minor skirmishes against the Earthbenders. They also might be areas of the Earth Kingdom that through propaganada and Education the Fire Nation had completely assimilated (Sozin originally argued that the purpose of the war was to share the Prosperity of the Fire Nation with other countries).

Zor