Obama Administration lifts stem cell ban.

[Starglider]

From DailyTech;

Researchers now have access to 13 new lines of stem cells, opening a wealth of possibilities

Embryonic stem cell lines promise to unlock incredible new therapies, allowing tissue types to be regrown and diseases such as Parkinson's disease, sickle cell anemia, and spinal cord injuries/defects to be truly treated for the first time. However, a moral debate long limited these potentially life-saving research tools. Under President Bush, only embryonic stem cell lines in existence before August 9, 2001 were allowed for federally funded research (which was significant considering most university biotech researchers involves some degree of federal funding). Newer lines were expressly forbidden from federal funding.

Now, President Barack Obama's administration has thrown that policy away according to the New York Times, allowing the first of many new embryonic stem cell lines to be approved. The National Institutes of Health announced Wednesday that federal researchers now have legal access to 13 new embryonic stem cell lines. Over 96 more lines are under review and may soon be approved.

Embryonic stem cells are typically derived from embryos left over at in vitro fertility clinics. Opening more lines is significant for many reasons. First, it is notoriously hard to keep stem cells growing and dividing in their original state for almost 10 years. Genetic changes may skew test results and lead to misleading conclusions.

Secondly, it's important to have multiple lines accessible to verify that phenomena observed are applicable to all stem cells or just certain lines. This information is essential if doctors are to ever hope to seriously treat diseases on a widespread basis with stem cells.

During the ban, researchers were able to finance some work on new lines via independent financing, but found themselves buried under mounds of government red tape, namely the necessity to keep the independently financed lines in separate areas. Describes Ali H. Brivanlou, a researcher at Rockefeller University, "You can imagine what it meant not to be able to carry a pipette from one room to another. They even had to repaint the walls to ensure no contamination by federal funds."

I thought I'd post this because it's a good example of the Obama adminstration doing something simple but useful, which McCain/Palin would never have been capable of. The huge train-wrecks of stimulus/bailouts, health care quagmire etc are depressing to watch, but meanwhile little positive things like this keep going through in the background.

[Solauren]

Wow, Obama is really using the distraction over Health-care to get through alot of other stuff.

Good Going on Electing a Smart President!

[wolveraptor]

Wow, Obama is really using the distraction over Health-care to get through alot of other stuff.

Good Going on Electing a Smart President!

Er, what else has he accomplished aside from this? As a commie pinko tree-hugger, I've been pretty disappointed, though not really surprised, in his performance.

[The Spartan]

This for instance. Posted a little bit further down in the forum.

TLDR: lobbyists have had a cut in their power to influence lawmakers.

[Big Phil]

Wow, Obama is really using the distraction over Health-care to get through alot of other stuff.

Good Going on Electing a Smart President!

Er, what else has he accomplished aside from this? As a commie pinko tree-hugger, I've been pretty disappointed, though not really surprised, in his performance.

Good lord, what the fuck is it with you people? Sure, the big ones (health care, Iraq, Afghanistan, the economy) aren't "fixed," but for fuck's sake he's only been in office for ten months and he's got the conservatives in this country unified to try and make sure this fascist/communist/racist/muslim/nazi/black/liberal/non-citizen fails. While I'm not entirely thrilled with health care reform, give the man some time, and some credit for what he has accomplished.

Two links on how Obama is doing keeping his campaign promises:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
http://promises.nationaljournal.com/

[Themightytom]

Wow, Obama is really using the distraction over Health-care to get through alot of other stuff.

Good Going on Electing a Smart President!

Er, what else has he accomplished aside from this? As a commie pinko tree-hugger, I've been pretty disappointed, though not really surprised, in his performance.

Oh come on! he won the Nobel peace prize, saved a turkey and invented a new solution to racial tension, will nothing satify you people???

wait I don't mean you people...

Now lets see if he will continue funding the ISS and keep pushing for alternative energy developement...

[Starglider]

Now lets see if he will continue funding the ISS

Exactly what useful science or tech development is the ISS doing that justifies its massive operating costs?

[Serafine666]

-snip-
I thought I'd post this because it's a good example of the Obama adminstration doing something simple but useful, which McCain/Palin would never have been capable of. The huge train-wrecks of stimulus/bailouts, health care quagmire etc are depressing to watch, but meanwhile little positive things like this keep going through in the background.

And it'd be so much more useful if they walled off the stem cell research that's still struggling to be scientifically valid and threw all support behind the research that is curing diseases and making crippled people walk. But he's a very good populist to do something that is widely perceived to improve things.

[ray245]

-snip-
I thought I'd post this because it's a good example of the Obama adminstration doing something simple but useful, which McCain/Palin would never have been capable of. The huge train-wrecks of stimulus/bailouts, health care quagmire etc are depressing to watch, but meanwhile little positive things like this keep going through in the background.

And it'd be so much more useful if they walled off the stem cell research that's still struggling to be scientifically valid and threw all support behind the research that is curing diseases and making crippled people walk. But he's a very good populist to do something that is widely perceived to improve things.

You would attempt to back it up with facts right?

[wolveraptor]

And it'd be so much more useful if they walled off the stem cell research that's still struggling to be scientifically valid and threw all support behind the research that is curing diseases and making crippled people walk. But he's a very good populist to do something that is widely perceived to improve things.

I can't be the only one who's interested in hearing how stem cell research is "struggling to be scientfically valid".

[Formless]

And it'd be so much more useful if they walled off the stem cell research that's still struggling to be scientifically valid and threw all support behind the research that is curing diseases and making crippled people walk. But he's a very good populist to do something that is widely perceived to improve things.

I can't be the only one who's interested in hearing how stem cell research is "struggling to be scientfically valid".

If only for a laugh. A cold, humorless laugh.

[Omega18]

and threw all support behind the research that is curing diseases and making crippled people walk. But he's a very good populist to do something that is widely perceived to improve things.

In other words you're talking about supporting embryonic stem cell research since its very clearly the more promising area regarding allowing crippled people to walk?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/ ... 4662.shtml
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121345.htm

With upcoming human trials in this area.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/24 ... temcells24

[SirNitram]

Now lets see if he will continue funding the ISS and keep pushing for alternative energy developement...

The first would prove he's not on top of understanding space policy....

Christ. The ISS is a sad little shed in space.

[ArmorPierce]

And it'd be so much more useful if they walled off the stem cell research that's still struggling to be scientifically valid and threw all support behind the research that is curing diseases and making crippled people walk. But he's a very good populist to do something that is widely perceived to improve things.

Awww... the good old 'Stem Cell Research has not yielded any results yet and therefore probably never will, our money is better spent elsewhere!" It is a stupid argument not to mention inaccurate.

[Serafine666]

Awww... the good old 'Stem Cell Research has not yielded any results yet and therefore probably never will, our money is better spent elsewhere!" It is a stupid argument not to mention inaccurate.

It's stupid to note that umbilical cord and adult stem cell research has yielded results (for some time, in fact) but embryonic stem cells have not so it's better to spend our research money on USC and ASC instead of ESC? Fascinating logic! I wonder why the term "stem cell research" is meant only to refer to one type of stem cell, seeing as how the other types have been used medicinally for longer...

[Serafine666]

In other words you're talking about supporting embryonic stem cell research since its very clearly the more promising area regarding allowing crippled people to walk?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/ ... 4662.shtml
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121345.htm

With upcoming human trials in this area.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/24 ... temcells24

No, I'm talking about ADULT stem cell research since it has allowed crippled humans to walk as opposed to crippled mice with human trials upcoming:
Crippling injury healed by ASC.
Crippled patients aided by ASC.
The above, by the way, are just the first two results I came across with a simple Google search; there's lots more. And would you look at that date... 5 years ago, ASC was helping humans instead of 3 years ago ESC helping mice. Tell me again about which stem cell research I'm talking about?

[Mr Bean]

Awww... the good old 'Stem Cell Research has not yielded any results yet and therefore probably never will, our money is better spent elsewhere!" It is a stupid argument not to mention inaccurate.

It's stupid to note that umbilical cord and adult stem cell research has yielded results (for some time, in fact) but embryonic stem cells have not so it's better to spend our research money on USC and ASC instead of ESC? Fascinating logic! I wonder why the term "stem cell research" is meant only to refer to one type of stem cell, seeing as how the other types have been used medicinally for longer...

As long as we limit our research to only those done in American labs which were not allowed to do any research it's easy to prove stem cell research is going no where! Why bring in that bothersome research in Singapore and South Korea who's scientists are not under the same shackles as ours.

Here's a hint Serafine666 to say research won't pan out without first doing the research is idiotic, it ignores what science does. To prove something does not work or is not useful you have to do the research. We here in the US have not had a chance to do pure stem cell research because we are perfectly happy to simply toss good genetic material in the trash(Which is what literally happened when the ban went through) rather than use it for experimental purposes. Which is why in the Stem cell line of research we are a decade behind everyone else who were able continue on since when the ban passed it's reporting requirement for existing research was so expensive that projects had to be transferred to other countries or stopped. Most were simply stopped and we might see a chance of discoveries coming out of this now the ban has been revoked.

[ArmorPierce]

Awww... the good old 'Stem Cell Research has not yielded any results yet and therefore probably never will, our money is better spent elsewhere!" It is a stupid argument not to mention inaccurate.

It's stupid to note that umbilical cord and adult stem cell research has yielded results (for some time, in fact) but embryonic stem cells have not so it's better to spend our research money on USC and ASC instead of ESC? Fascinating logic! I wonder why the term "stem cell research" is meant only to refer to one type of stem cell, seeing as how the other types have been used medicinally for longer...

Firstly, you did not differentiate between the two.

Secondly, yes it is stupid considering that the research is not being done or severely limited.

Thirdly, as you have gone on to post, there HAVE been results for embryonic stem cell research.

I agree, I don't know why stem cell research is meant to refer to one type of stem cell, I wonder why you jumped to the conclusion I was talking just about embryonic stem cell research in response to your post about stem cells.

[Serafine666]

You would attempt to back it up with facts right?

I can't be the only one who's interested in hearing how stem cell research is "struggling to be scientfically valid".

First: EMBRYONIC stem cell research. Stem cell research, as in non-embryonic stem cell research, is scientifically quite valid and proven to be medicinally useful.
Second: I'd be glad to back it up with facts but there's so many citations that I think a sampling will suffice.
Crippling injury healed by ASCs.
Repeated success with ASC treatments
Promise in healing hearts with ASCs.
Brief Wikipedia discussion of therapeutic ASCs.
General overview of ASC and USC potential.
Article on successes with ASCs.
Should you wish additional evidence, feel free to ask and I'll do a more thorough survey. To emphasize: ESCs are promised to eventually help people. ASCs as well as USCs are currently helping people.

[Serafine666]

Firstly, you did not differentiate between the two.

True. I should have specifically named the stem cell research that works versus the one that has yet to work. But whether I named them or not does not detract from the fundamental point that one works and the other may eventually work.

Secondly, yes it is stupid considering that the research is not being done or severely limited.

Do you really think that the US alone in the world does stem cell research? The research IS being done and is only severely limited in the United States. Moreover, there was never a limit on whether private monies could be used to fund it; the limitation was on federal money.

Thirdly, as you have gone on to post, there HAVE been results for embryonic stem cell research.

I have posted no such thing. I admitted that there has been results in RATS and that human trials are UPCOMING... but then pointed out that ASCs have successfully treated humans and had been used in that manner more than 5 years ago at least.

I agree, I don't know why stem cell research is meant to refer to one type of stem cell, I wonder why you jumped to the conclusion I was talking just about embryonic stem cell research in response to your post about stem cells.

I apologize for that. When people use the phrase "stem cell research", they generally use it in the context of "oh goody, we can finally start doing stem cell research and there is promise that it will eventually help people"... when stem cell research (encompassing all types of stem cells) has been helping people for some time. I should not have jumped to the conclusion that you were using it in a general fashion.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Awww... the good old 'Stem Cell Research has not yielded any results yet and therefore probably never will, our money is better spent elsewhere!" It is a stupid argument not to mention inaccurate.

It's stupid to note that umbilical cord and adult stem cell research has yielded results (for some time, in fact) but embryonic stem cells have not so it's better to spend our research money on USC and ASC instead of ESC? Fascinating logic! I wonder why the term "stem cell research" is meant only to refer to one type of stem cell, seeing as how the other types have been used medicinally for longer...

You are a fucking idiot. You want to know why ESC research has not yielded cures as fast? Part of the reason is because the research that can be done has been systematically undercut, its progress retarded by funding restrictions. The second part of the reason is that the basic research needs to be done before the engineering begins. It is a lot easier to use adult stem cells because they are already partially differentiated. ASC and USC are also much much more limited in their applications than ESC because of that same partial differentiation.

Do you really think that the US alone in the world does stem cell research? The research IS being done and is only severely limited in the United States. Moreover, there was never a limit on whether private monies could be used to fund it; the limitation was on federal money.

And the vast majority of basic biomedical research is funded by the federal government moron. Drug companies have no incentive to cure disease, they have incentive to treat disease and ensure repeat customers. Moreover, with the federal fund ban as it was, no facility that used any federal funds could do ESC research at all, unless they essentially built a new building, got separate pieces of equipment and separate staff.

[Omega18]

No, I'm talking about ADULT stem cell research since it has allowed crippled humans to walk as opposed to crippled mice with human trials upcoming:
Crippling injury healed by ASC.
Crippled patients aided by ASC.
The above, by the way, are just the first two results I came across with a simple Google search; there's lots more. And would you look at that date... 5 years ago, ASC was helping humans instead of 3 years ago ESC helping mice. Tell me again about which stem cell research I'm talking about?

The problem is the adult stem cell treatment in question lacks credible medical proof it actually works. (Note the lack of publication in a peer reviewed journal for instance.)

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/story? ... 621&page=1

The huge issue is the patient could well have recovered just as well without any adult stem cells being involved with her treatment at all. You need clear evidence the improvement was not a result of purely the other rehabilitation efforts, natural recovery, or luck in a couple of dramatic cases. Otherwise a patient could attribute their recovery just as easily to snake oil if they happened to have taken that. (The doctor could also be avoiding an honest evaluation of his success rate to drum up more business. You need a large proper control group on top of other proper study standards to actually evaluation such a treatment.

The reality is embryonic stem cell have FAR more credible evidence it can potentially work on paralysis with multiple animal studies showing dramatic improvement compared to the control group which didn't receive the treatment. As of right now, my understand is the sort of treatment type you're talking about simply lacks anything similar. The work to show it can work in humans in actually a far lower bar than showing it in fact reliably works in the first place, without which all sorts of bogus "miracle cures" can get peddled without them actually doing anything except taking credit for patients that would have removed without them anyways.

A huge point you appear to be flat out missing in general by the way is embryonic stem cell research has been around as a truly viable area of research for considerably less time than adult stem cells, so you would ABSOLUTELY EXPECT there to be fewer treatments about to be ready for human use, especially given how long it ordinarily takes to reach that stage from basic research for safety reasons in particular. The related issue is Bush managed to severely impair the development of embryonic stem cell research just when it was initially getting going with the nature of his restrictions, so that has absolutely impaired the advancement of the field. The argument of less cures because it hasn't gotten proper support and the ability to really properly develop until very recently isn't much of an argument.

[Serafine666]

As long as we limit our research to only those done in American labs which were not allowed to do any research it's easy to prove stem cell research is going no where! Why bring in that bothersome research in Singapore and South Korea who's scientists are not under the same shackles as ours.

Ah, but I was not limiting my references like you describe. I was talking about all stem cell research which includes that STR that has actually produced results.

Here's a hint Serafine666 to say research won't pan out without first doing the research is idiotic, it ignores what science does.

Please quote me saying that it won't pan out. What I said was that embryonic stem cell research is still struggling for scientific validity. This is not at all the same as "it will never pan out." I also said that embryonic stem cells have not yet produced results which, again, is not at all the same as "it will never pan out." Please don't accuse me of saying something that I clearly did not.

To prove something does not work or is not useful you have to do the research. We here in the US have not had a chance to do pure stem cell research because we are perfectly happy to simply toss good genetic material in the trash(Which is what literally happened when the ban went through) rather than use it for experimental purposes. Which is why in the Stem cell line of research we are a decade behind everyone else who were able continue on since when the ban passed it's reporting requirement for existing research was so expensive that projects had to be transferred to other countries or stopped. Most were simply stopped and we might see a chance of discoveries coming out of this now the ban has been revoked.

That is all true but you don't seem to be acknowledging that there was never a ban on anything except for embryonic stem cells and, in fact, the only "ban" was on using federal money for it. This is not a minor point: adult stem cells and umbilical cord stem cells are not embryonic stem cells and to my knowledge, there has never been ethical objections to research utilizing them.

[Serafine666]

You are a fucking idiot. You want to know why ESC research has not yielded cures as fast? Part of the reason is because the research that can be done has been systematically undercut, its progress retarded by funding restrictions. The second part of the reason is that the basic research needs to be done before the engineering begins. It is a lot easier to use adult stem cells because they are already partially differentiated. ASC and USC are also much much more limited in their applications than ESC because of that same partial differentiation.

Very well. And this applies to research done outside the US without comparable restrictions... how?

And the vast majority of basic biomedical research is funded by the federal government moron. Drug companies have no incentive to cure disease, they have incentive to treat disease and ensure repeat customers. Moreover, with the federal fund ban as it was, no facility that used any federal funds could do ESC research at all, unless they essentially built a new building, got separate pieces of equipment and separate staff.

That is true. Once again, however, not all stem cell research is done in the United States and there are quite a few very good biomedical researchers that aren't American. Why hasn't it panned out in those places (where there is no similar limit on funding) hmm? Why does the basic research done outside our borders not count?

[Omega18]

Do you really think that the US alone in the world does stem cell research? The research IS being done and is only severely limited in the United States. Moreover, there was never a limit on whether private monies could be used to fund it; the limitation was on federal money.

As already noted, drug companies almost never spend money on basic early theoretical research. They vastly prefer to take advantage of the government doing that research and only having to do the later stage research, so they spend less money and bring treatments to market more quickly.

While research was always done outside of the US, a substantial component of such research, especially in the past has been done here. The other point to repeat again is human treatments, especially using really new types of procedures flat out take a long time to usually reach market for safety reasons. (Someone could have just tried the treatment in humans awhile ago, but it was not done like that to avoid putting the initial patients at an unnecessary level of risk for the sake of fast testing.)