Insurrection question

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-13 07:33pm

During Insurrection, didn't Geordi's eyes start to regenerate because of the metaphasic stuff? What I'm wondering is why didn't Picards heart start to regenerate? I mean, if Geordi's eyes will grow back, then why not Picard's heart?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » 2003-02-13 07:43pm

Geordi was blind, but he still had his eyes. Picard's original heart was completely removed and replaced by the replacement. There's nothing there to start the regeneration process.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-02-13 09:15pm

One little problem. Geordi was born blind, a genetic defect. The rings should not have assisted Geordi. Second thing, the way the rings work and how they could even heal the Son'a indicate Picard should have died when his artifical heart malfunctioned.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-13 09:26pm

Another problem: what happened to the artificial eyes? There's bits of metal, plastic, etc. in there. Does it just disappear magically? Does the eyeball grow around that material? Is there some horrifyingly painful episode where the tissue is growing and pushing the fake eyeball out of its socket, ripping nerve connections to his brain, and he's staggering around blindly with artificial eyes dangling down his face while the natural eyes grow in?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-02-13 09:27pm

And WHY didn't the Sona simply set up camp on the OTHER SIDE of the frickin' planet?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-02-13 09:31pm

Darth Wong wrote:Another problem: what happened to the artificial eyes? There's bits of metal, plastic, etc. in there. Does it just disappear magically? Does the eyeball grow around that material? Is there some horrifyingly painful episode where the tissue is growing and pushing the fake eyeball out of its socket, ripping nerve connections to his brain, and he's staggering around blindly with artificial eyes dangling down his face while the natural eyes grow in?

That's a good point. He actually had his eyeballs removed in First Contact for those eyeball shaped cameras, which even had a zoom feature. He didn't really have natural eyes to heal.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-13 10:10pm

Darth Wong wrote:Another problem: what happened to the artificial eyes? There's bits of metal, plastic, etc. in there. Does it just disappear magically? Does the eyeball grow around that material? Is there some horrifyingly painful episode where the tissue is growing and pushing the fake eyeball out of its socket, ripping nerve connections to his brain, and he's staggering around blindly with artificial eyes dangling down his face while the natural eyes grow in?

Thanks for painting such a pretty image.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-02-13 10:13pm

Darth Wong wrote:Another problem: what happened to the artificial eyes? There's bits of metal, plastic, etc. in there. Does it just disappear magically? Does the eyeball grow around that material? Is there some horrifyingly painful episode where the tissue is growing and pushing the fake eyeball out of its socket, ripping nerve connections to his brain, and he's staggering around blindly with artificial eyes dangling down his face while the natural eyes grow in?

Or can they be popped out somehow?

There must be a way to recharge them.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2003-02-13 11:17pm

This seems like a no brainer to me: they put the implants in Geordi's eyes or totally replaced them period so when his eyes start regenerating they just took them out. You guys are being way too quick to try and find plot holes where they don't exist. Oh and it was Crusher who found that the tissue regeneration was behind his headaches since they had arrived in the Briar Patch, so it seems likely since he was in sickbay and they had found out that his eyes were regenerating and given the circumstances, everybody experiencing abnormal improvements in health, scars healing that sort of thing it might not be such a bad idea to take the implants out, let the tissue grow and see what happens.

As for the genetic problem, the forms of radiation we are familiar with can damage or alter genetic information on the cellular level causing cancer or the premature death of cells, so why not an odd form of radiation that makes more benevolent changes to the genetic code? For Picard's heart, this makes me think Geordi's implants are implanted into his existing eyes, not just totally artificial. Having no natural heart is somewhat more severe than just having naturally non-functional eyes that have been supplemented with artificial implants, it probably would have taken longer for the radiation to have caused any major problems by totally regenerating a fairly good sized organ in just a matter of days. For the Son'a, they did it to themselves, they are all fairly old for most humanoids and they've been trying to combat the effects of aging for much of that time with various treatments that at least in the novelization it says has severely damaged their genetic structures to the point of essentially sterilizing them.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-13 11:18pm

I prefer my mental image of him staggering blindly around the ship's corridors in agony with two artificial eyes dangling from their face and his nascent eye tissue forming in the empty sockets.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-02-13 11:20pm

your sadistic, you know that?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-02-13 11:24pm

SCVN 2812 wrote:This seems like a no brainer to me: they put the implants in Geordi's eyes or totally replaced them period so when his eyes start regenerating they just took them out. You guys are being way too quick to try and find plot holes where they don't exist. Oh and it was Crusher who found that the tissue regeneration was behind his headaches since they had arrived in the Briar Patch, so it seems likely since he was in sickbay and they had found out that his eyes were regenerating and given the circumstances, everybody experiencing abnormal improvements in health, scars healing that sort of thing it might not be such a bad idea to take the implants out, let the tissue grow and see what happens.

Still doesn't address Picards heart. If organs like eyes completely regenerate, then the human heart should have started regenerating as well.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2003-02-13 11:28pm

I was just editing my post, forgot to address that. Its kind of disturbing when you can say that Wong's comment is no where near the most disturbing thing you've read on this board, and that's just comming and reading posts every couple weeks.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2003-02-14 04:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:Another problem: what happened to the artificial eyes? There's bits of metal, plastic, etc. in there. Does it just disappear magically? Does the eyeball grow around that material? Is there some horrifyingly painful episode where the tissue is growing and pushing the fake eyeball out of its socket, ripping nerve connections to his brain, and he's staggering around blindly with artificial eyes dangling down his face while the natural eyes grow in?

You know, that reminds of Jordi La Forgery in Star Wreck...

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-02-14 04:34pm

Darth Wong wrote:I prefer my mental image of him staggering blindly around the ship's corridors in agony with two artificial eyes dangling from their face and his nascent eye tissue forming in the empty sockets.

That’s pretty sick, Wong.

But it would be nice if just once, just ONCE, we could see some actual repercussions for Treknobabble.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-14 04:35pm

SCVN 2812 wrote:.

As for the genetic problem, the forms of radiation we are familiar with can damage or alter genetic information on the cellular level causing cancer or the premature death of cells, so why not an odd form of radiation that makes more benevolent changes to the genetic code? For Picard's heart, this makes me think Geordi's implants are implanted into his existing eyes, not just totally artificial. Having no natural heart is somewhat more severe than just having naturally non-functional eyes that have been supplemented with artificial implants, it probably would have taken longer for the radiation to have caused any major problems by totally regenerating a fairly good sized organ in just a matter of days. For the Son'a, they did it to themselves, they are all fairly old for most humanoids and they've been trying to combat the effects of aging for much of that time with various treatments that at least in the novelization it says has severely damaged their genetic structures to the point of essentially sterilizing them.

Radiation causes changes by breaking genetic material apart and destroying it. I'm not seeing how this further destruction can help.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » 2003-02-14 05:28pm

Um, I thought that Geordi just wore some technobabble contact lens or somesuch variant that "transmitted images through subspace" to his brain or something. If that's the case, then he could just pop out the lens, right?

johnmarkley · Post by **johnmarkley** » 2003-02-14 05:41pm

Darth Wong wrote:I prefer my mental image of him staggering blindly around the ship's corridors in agony with two artificial eyes dangling from their face and his nascent eye tissue forming in the empty sockets.

Good Lord, wasn't the movie repulsive enough already?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-02-14 07:22pm

Darth Wong wrote:I prefer my mental image of him staggering blindly around the ship's corridors in agony with two artificial eyes dangling from their face and his nascent eye tissue forming in the empty sockets.

Ooh. What if that hypothetically happened to Picard's heart? Sadly, having a fake heart pushed into other organs and a still forming heart would kill him before he could experience the pain.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-02-14 08:15pm

HemlockGrey wrote:And WHY didn't the Sona simply set up camp on the OTHER SIDE of the frickin' planet?

Supposedly, the natural effects would not have taken place quickly enough to save some of the Son'a.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-02-14 09:33pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:And WHY didn't the Sona simply set up camp on the OTHER SIDE of the frickin' planet?
Supposedly, the natural effects would not have taken place quickly enough to save some of the Son'a.

I think he means right when they were banished. I mean, how the fuck would a bunch of technology hating (ironic since they have several simple machines) dumbasses know what's happening on the other side of the world?

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2003-02-15 06:58pm

They wouldn't know what was happening on the other side of the world, but the oldest Son'a might not have been able to survive long enough to be fixed at the natural level of radiation exposure not to mention they wanted revenge for being exiled to a slow death and you don't get revenge by setting up a colony without them knowing it, you get it by rendering them homeless and when the Federation doesn't like that idea you do it by trying to wipe them out along with the planet.

Oh and the Ba'ku didn't hate technology, just didn't like to use anything beyond basic stuff in their daily lives as they're basically technophobes, and justifiably so since the society they came from was on the verge of destroying itself, which they blamed it on technology because its easier than blaming society and didn't want the temptation to abuse technology so for them it was just easier to not use it.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-02-15 07:16pm

SCVN 2812 wrote:They wouldn't know what was happening on the other side of the world, but the oldest Son'a might not have been able to survive long enough to be fixed at the natural level of radiation exposure not to mention they wanted revenge for being exiled to a slow death and you don't get revenge by setting up a colony without them knowing it, you get it by rendering them homeless and when the Federation doesn't like that idea you do it by trying to wipe them out along with the planet.

Ahem. When they were exiled they were all young. If they set up a coloney and went into space in short trips they could gather weapons and kill them all.
Oh and the Ba'ku didn't hate technology, just didn't like to use anything beyond basic stuff in their daily lives as they're basically technophobes, and justifiably so since the society they came from was on the verge of destroying itself, which they blamed it on technology because its easier than blaming society and didn't want the temptation to abuse technology so for them it was just easier to not use it.

The did hate technology. "We believe when you make a machine to do the work of a man, you take something away from the man.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-02-15 07:29pm

"We believe when you make a machine to do the work of a man, you take something away from the man.

I can live with that.

-blasts phaser-

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-02-15 09:04pm

Obviously, the radiation is SENTIENT!!!

(Since this was Insurrection, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case...)