California to ban divorce

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Highlord Laan
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California to ban divorce

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SACRAMENTO, Calif. – Til death do us part? The vow would really hold true in California if a Sacramento Web designer gets his way.

In a movement that seems ripped from the pages of Comedy Channel writers, John Marcotte wants to put a measure on the ballot next year to ban divorce in California.

The effort is meant to be a satirical statement after California voters outlawed gay marriage in 2008, largely on the argument that a ban is needed to protect the sanctity of traditional marriage. If that's the case, then Marcotte reasons voters should have no problem banning divorce.

"Since California has decided to protect traditional marriage, I think it would be hypocritical of us not to sacrifice some of our own rights to protect traditional marriage even more," the 38-year-old married father of two said.

Marcotte said he has collected dozens of signatures, including one from his wife of seven years. The initiative's Facebook fans have swelled to more than 11,000. Volunteers that include gay activists and members of a local comedy troupe have signed on to help.

Marcotte is looking into whether he can gather signatures online, as proponents are doing for another proposed 2010 initiative to repeal the gay marriage ban. But the odds are stacked against a campaign funded primarily by the sale of $12 T-shirts featuring bride and groom stick figures chained at the wrists.

Marcotte needs 694,354 valid signatures by March 22, a high hurdle in a state where the typical petition drive costs millions of dollars. Even if his proposed constitutional amendment made next year's ballot, it's not clear how voters would react.

Nationwide, about half of all marriages end in divorce.

Not surprisingly, Marcotte's campaign to make divorce in California illegal has divided those involved in last year's campaign for and against Proposition 8.

As much as everyone would like to see fewer divorces, making it illegal would be "impractical," said Ron Prentice, the executive director of the California Family Council who led a coalition of religious and conservative groups to qualify Proposition 8.

No other state bans divorce, and only a few countries, including the Philippines and Malta, do. The Roman Catholic Church also prohibits divorce but allows annulments. The California proposal would amend the state constitution to eliminate the ability of married couples to get divorced while allowing married couples to seek an annulment.

Prentice said proponents of traditional marriage only seek to strengthen the one man-one woman union.

"That's where our intention begins and ends," he said.

Jeffrey Taylor, a spokesman for Restore Equality 2010, a coalition of same-sex marriage activists seeking to repeal Proposition 8, said the coalition supports Marcotte's message but has no plans to join forces with him.

"We find it quite hilarious," Taylor said of the initiative.

Marcotte, who runs the comedy site BadMouth.net in his spare time, said he has received support from across the political spectrum. In addition to encouragement from gay marriage advocates, he has been interviewed by American Family Association, a Mississippi-based organization that contributed to last year's Yes on 8 campaign.

He was mentioned by Keith Olbermann on MSNBC's "Countdown" during his "World's Best Persons" segment for giving supporters of Proposition 8 their "comeuppance in California."

Marcotte, who is Catholic and voted against Proposition 8, views himself as an accidental activist. A registered Democrat, he led a "ban divorce" rally recently at the state Capitol in Sacramento to launch his effort and was pleasantly surprised at the turnout. About 50 people showed up, some holding signs that read, "You too can vote to take away civil rights from someone."

Marcotte stopped dozens of people during another signature drive in downtown Sacramento. Among them was Ryan Platt, 32, who said he signed the petition in support of his lesbian sister, even though he thinks it would be overturned if voters approved it.

"Even if by some miracle this did pass, it would never stand up to the federal government," Platt said. "And if it did, there's something really wrong with America."

Other petition signers said they were motivated by a sincere interest to preserve marriages. One was Ervin Hulton, a 47-year-old dishwasher who said he believes in making it harder for couples to separate.

"The way I feel, why go out and spend all these tons of money for marriage, the photography and all that? And along down the line, it's going to shatter," said Hulton, who is single.

The U.S. divorce rate is 47.9 percent, according to data provided by the National Center for Health Statistics reports. That figure, however, does not include California, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Louisiana and Minnesota because those six states no longer report their divorce rates to the center.

California stopped because of budget problems, said Ralph Montano, a spokesman for the California Department of Public Health.

While most people would not support banning divorce, it does make sense for couples to be educated about the financial and emotional commitments of marriage, said Dan Couvrette, chief executive and publisher of Toronto-based Divorce Magazine. The publication has a circulation of 140,000, including a regional edition in Southern California.

"It's a worthwhile conversation to have," said Couvrette, who started the magazine in 1996 after going through his own divorce. "I don't think it's just a frivolous thought."
Oh jobu, I admire the gumption here. Put the puritanical morons in a position where the only way they can keep their credibility is to completely alienate pretty much everyone else, and render themselves impotent.

I hope it works. Hell, If I lived in CA, I'd sign it.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Like that will ever make it on the ballot. As nice of a gesture that is, you're not qualifying anything if you don't have at least a couple million dollars to fund the signature gatherers.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Am I the only one who thinks this could backfire in a tragicomic way? Remember, these are the same nutjobs who really believe divorce is a sin in the eyes of gawd. He should've gone for something more blatantly objectionable, like a petition to ban interracial marriage. Of course, people are stupid and don't get satire, so that would've probably backfired too.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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wolveraptor wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this could backfire in a tragicomic way? Remember, these are the same nutjobs who really believe divorce is a sin in the eyes of gawd. He should've gone for something more blatantly objectionable, like a petition to ban interracial marriage. Of course, people are stupid and don't get satire, so that would've probably backfired too.
And get himself labeled as a racist in the process by the media. Brilliant idea there.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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It's always fun to see someone try to get the government to do something impossible. Next up: a petition to have the government of California ban sunshine. :lol:
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Highlord Laan wrote:Oh jobu, I admire the gumption here. Put the puritanical morons in a position where the only way they can keep their credibility is to completely alienate pretty much everyone else, and render themselves impotent.
I doubt real fundies would be caught. They would just say that since The Lord Jesus The Christ and The Holy Bible do not condemn divorce unconditionally, there is no contradiction. In fact, since Catholics long went for "No divorce at all!" that shows such thoughts are probably the position of Antichrist, the Whore of Babylon and Beelzebub Lucifer Satan . . .
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Re: California to ban divorce

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General Zod wrote:And get himself labeled as a racist in the process by the media. Brilliant idea there.
wolveraptor wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this could backfire in a tragicomic way? Remember, these are the same nutjobs who really believe divorce is a sin in the eyes of gawd. He should've gone for something more blatantly objectionable, like a petition to ban interracial marriage. Of course, people are stupid and don't get satire, so that would've probably backfired too.
Anyways, my point is the petition isn't extreme enough to satirize the right.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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wolveraptor wrote:
General Zod wrote:And get himself labeled as a racist in the process by the media. Brilliant idea there.
wolveraptor wrote:Am I the only one who thinks this could backfire in a tragicomic way? Remember, these are the same nutjobs who really believe divorce is a sin in the eyes of gawd. He should've gone for something more blatantly objectionable, like a petition to ban interracial marriage. Of course, people are stupid and don't get satire, so that would've probably backfired too.
Anyways, my point is the petition isn't extreme enough to satirize the right.
It doesn't have to be extreme. It's taking the next logical step along the 'protect marriage' train of thought, nobody would get "interracial couples". Plenty of people get divorce.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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General Zod wrote:It doesn't have to be extreme. It's taking the next logical step along the 'protect marriage' train of thought, nobody would get "interracial couples". Plenty of people get divorce.
You're right, I misinterpreted the intent of the petition.
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Re: California to ban divorce

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Serafine666 wrote:It's always fun to see someone try to get the government to do something impossible. Next up: a petition to have the government of California ban sunshine. :lol:

well the emporer still holds sway over too much of our politics, waiting for a voter intiative banning other governments, and gravity.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Interestingly, as a fundie child I contemplated the thought that banning divorce would be a good idea. My siblings, friends, and I started a game where we ruled our own countries and could pass whatever laws we wanted (I and two friends ruled the US), and I decided that instead of banning divorce, I would make a lot of marriage counseling necessary by law, both before marriage and before divorce.

And another note: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
Christians, especially conservative Christians, have a higher divorce rate than do secular people. At the evangelical megachurch where I attended as a child, for instance, the pastor's daughter was divorced and the youth pastor had an affair and got divorced. So I think that Christians would vote against the measure because they'd realize that it would curtail their ability to get divorced (and many of them have already been divorced at least once).
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Re: California to ban divorce

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What's a megachurch like? Growing up, even with 'lapsed Catholics/Euro liberal 'Do your own thing' type parents, I still went to church occasionally (Catholic primary school and Anglican secondary school), and the church and chapel services I've experienced have been boring, in austere environments. But a megachurch is totally different to my experience. (thank god)
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Megachurch: thousands of attendees (even tens of thousands), no membership list, a huge sanctuary with stadium seating, a stage full of (volunteer) performers singing, on drums, and playing guitars, catchy praise choruses (essentially love songs with the name Jesus inserted), charismatic preaching (usually very conservative), small groups (groups of attendees who meet in people's houses for Bible studies, etc), various classes (single moms, missions minded adults, etc), various ministries (overseas missions, ministries to international students, etc), and lots and lots of evangelical Jesus-speak ("get saved" "testimony" "God-sighting" etc).

I grew up in an evangelical megachurch and then married a Catholic (which went over GREAT with my folks - note the biting sarcasm), and I can tell you, Catholic churches are about 100% the opposite of megachurches.

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Re: California to ban divorce

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I speculate that this is because the megachurches are using enthusiasm in place of the tradition they don't have. Thus, instead of a heavy weight of ritual, they have a heavy weight of enthusiasm.

Is this reasonable?
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Simon_Jester wrote:I speculate that this is because the megachurches are using enthusiasm in place of the tradition they don't have. Thus, instead of a heavy weight of ritual, they have a heavy weight of enthusiasm.

Is this reasonable?
A couple things:

First, Randall Balmer, a historian of American religion, has argued that religious denominations have to have some form of "adhesive." Orthodox churches in America are often united by ethnicity, the Catholic Church is united by its hierarchy, etc. Balmer says evangelicals are united by their beliefs, and that this is why many evangelical churches split over obscure beliefs (because they value the purity of beliefs.

Also, though, I think that your argument about enthusiasm is at least partly accurate. Historian George Marsden has argued that evangelicals were influenced by the charismatic movement of the '60s and '70s. I think that may be where part of the enthusiasm comes from, and I think that enthusiasm does work as an adhesive.

Third, Colleen McDannell has argued that evangelicalism has become incredibly materialist. She says - get this - that an evangelical is defined as someone who can sing praise chorus lyrics, know where to find a Jesus poster, etc. In other words, someone who identifies with the materialist evangelical subculture. Perhaps the enthusiasm is part of this.

I could go on but I need to go work on a history paper - evangelicalism in antebellum America. I'm a second year masters' student studying the history of American religion.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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I have to say that I found some of the pictures in the above post very offensive. VERY offensive. Also, was there a point to be made? I would ask that the post be removed, but I don't know the rules of the forum as I am fairly new.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Ignore the troll, he has been purged.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Thank goodness. Does this forum frequently attract such random creeps? At least there's a process to deal with it.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Any forum can attract unwanted attention. The larger and more active the forum, the more likely. The best defense is an active moderator staff. And that is what dealt with tonight's flareup.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Not too often. I'm not sure it was really a person.

Considering how fast the posts came, it had to be a spambot.
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Alyeska wrote:Any forum can attract unwanted attention. The larger and more active the forum, the more likely. The best defense is an active moderator staff. And that is what dealt with tonight's flareup.
Yes, the moderators did move fast, thankfully. And I like the moderators...after all, I'm married to one of them!
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Isolder74 wrote:Not too often. I'm not sure it was really a person.

Considering how fast the posts came, it had to be a spambot.
Excellent point. But why would someone spend the time creating one, etc? I mean, I assume it takes time. I guess I just need to remember how many creeps are out there...
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Re: California to ban divorce

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Liberty Ferall wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:Not too often. I'm not sure it was really a person.

Considering how fast the posts came, it had to be a spambot.
Excellent point. But why would someone spend the time creating one, etc? I mean, I assume it takes time. I guess I just need to remember how many creeps are out there...
I'm afraid that there is no why other then, 'because I can' sometimes. I work in IT at a university and the amount of times this thing is tried on us is staggering. there was one week where we had to close down the entire server tree and the website in order to make sure that we'd purged a massive spammer attack on our e-mail server. Boy that was a long week...why the week before finals....THAT"S WHY!
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