SDN World 3 Commentary Thread II

[Steve]

Okay gentlebeings (and Shep!.... and Ryan Thunder.... and Norade.... ), we trudge on. Took us just over a month to get to 55 pages in the last commentary thread.

[K. A. Pital]

Super god damn detailed map. Don't know why I did it.

Presuppositions:
1) moving 1 division from the reserves or cadre forces from other regions by rail = 1 day.
2) moving 1 division from the reserves inside the region by rail and deploying it = 1 day.

3) Chinese divisions are 15 000, not 20 000 as the latter is an obvious cop-out attempt by Beowulf to strong-arm allied forces (even if they are, that's another 60 000 to his forces for a total of 930 000 men, and thus for a rough parity with the USSR forces in the area in a strategic sense; in a tactical sense the USSR still has extreme superiority)

4) division defence width = ~20 km (standard post-WWI plans)
5) divisions spread to 100 km in mountains

6) fortress divisions concentrate to 20 km from 100 km when attack imminent (else the situation would be too bad for Beowulf)

7) Manchuria: 3 cadre fortress and 3 cadre infantry divisions man the 500 km long border with Mongolia - 1 Reserve corps is also in that territory. The rest man the 1000 km wide border with Russia. 3 Mountain infantry divisions are in the North as Beowulf specified.

Railway brigades and railway artillery brigades (500 man each) cannot further follow forces due to lack of railway links with Manchuria, hence 1500 men (3 br) left manning breach in the South and 1000 men (2 br) left manning breach in the North.

9) Forces mobilize at large mob. centers not in empty space; 3 of my reserve Corps (Chita) and 3 of Beowulf's corps are mobilized beyond the immediate vinicity of hostilities. 7 of my Res Corps mobilize at inhabited towns and villages in the area, including Mogocha, Nerchinsk, Sretensk, Priargunsk, Zabaikalsk, etc. 6 of Beowulf's Res Corps mobilize at Gulian, and other inhabited points and railway junctions at line Yi.

10) There are no 3000 km long total track laid, purely military railways running right along the border, because no nation has had such feats made even with their defence lines, in the 1930s. There are railways which extend to larger fortified regions along the border.

All mobilization calculations are on the picture.

[Steve]

Don't know why you did either, given it's on an issue my fellow mods and I have already kinda settled.

[Norade]

Yay I get special mention... Wait... Is that a good thing...

[Thanas]

So how am I going to treat Karmic? He has not replied to any of my messages, it has been over four days since the ultimatum was posted. If he has just missed the game developments, I would have no problem with waiting, but I sent him two messages, which he read and he has not replied to them.

[loomer]

I'd personally wait another twelve hours, which is a few days in-game, and then proceed with a flat out invasion. Since he hasn't mobilized by virtue of selective non-participation, he can't really defend, now can he?

[Norade]

Sorry again for ripping off your declaration, but it was so well written and I'm terrible at writing official seeming documents.

Also, now it's all legit so Mexico ain't got shit on me.

[Thanas]

Sorry again for ripping off your declaration, but it was so well written and I'm terrible at writing official seeming documents.

Also, now it's all legit so Mexico ain't got shit on me.

Yeah, however a) You should erase wilhelm and dupont pronto
b) It would only have been posted after the war had already started - because there is no way you can immediately go for it within 30 minutes and sent a fleet.

So I would request anyone to wait with such deployments until the first day of war is over.

[Steve]

So how am I going to treat Karmic? He has not replied to any of my messages, it has been over four days since the ultimatum was posted. If he has just missed the game developments, I would have no problem with waiting, but I sent him two messages, which he read and he has not replied to them.

It is possible he's too busy to do anything, he hasn't posted in over a week, but yes, we can't let the war hold off forever. Post your opening attack later today.

[Norade]

I would wait, but I am exceedingly busy over the weekend and would like to have my post up. However I will change the timing so that it is set to occur after an official declaration of war.

[Steve]

Are you part of the Franco-German coalition then? I believe Suriname was to be hit by the Spanish forces primarily, logically that'd be different if Portugal was in the coalition.

Alternatively, you're not, which means that Germany and France can basically say "He's not with us, he's just in it for himself" and leave you right back where you've started.

[Steve]

Also, now it's all legit so Mexico ain't got shit on me.

Actually, it's only just as "legit" as what France and Germany have proclaimed. And France had a casus belli based on something more than platitudes (namely, Dutch occupation of France's colonies). So does Cascadia, actually, though I decided it was completely OOC for a nation like mine to partake in such a directly aggressive effort, especially given it was pursuing a diplomatic solution to its territorial disagreements with the Low Countries.

[loomer]

Afghanistan shall participate in the glorious liberation of Dutch lands!

They will be sending a boy scout with a camera, on a mule.

He will arrive the day after the war ends.

[Norade]

I cleared my involvement with Thanas and MoP so I'm fairly well assured of support. I don't really want too much anyway, just a little combat experience for my troops and a slice of land to show my people that lives weren't wasted for nothing. A shared port in Suriname would be nice as well just because you can never have to many, but that can wait until the war has really started.

The other thing is that if Mexico starts things that war time IC boost could be nice.

As for it being legit, it is more legitimate now than it would have been with no declaration piggy backing on France and Germany's rights. Either way both OOC and IC it is simply a flimsy excuse to get my some combat experience and land.

[Norseman]

Brazil is *not* happy about military actions occuring on the South American mainland. I'll be writing a declaration of my own when I'm feeling better.

[Norade]

Things are looking to get interesting then.

[Thanas]

I cleared my involvement with Thanas and MoP so I'm fairly well assured of support.

Not ingame, you did not.

What I am saying is that the timeline makes no sense at the moment. There has been no declaration of war. However, in 30 minutes time, you have:

a) received the full text of the ultimatum
b) cleared it with your military
c) made another ultimatum
d) sent your fleet out.

Does that make sense? I'd rather you wait till the end of the day.

[Thanas]

As for alliances, the diplomatic status of Germany is:

A) Full alliance with: Spain
a) Defensive alliance with: Tuscany, France and China
b) Some sort of inbetween a non-aggression pact and a defensive alliance with Cascadia and Great Britain
c) Non-aggression pacts with:
- The Balkan Confederacy
- The Sultanate of Egypt (iirc)
- the Byzantine Empire (proposed, not replied to in IC)

Close partnerships with nations regardless of diplomatic status:
- Portugal (gyrocopter development, joint naval exercises)
- Tuscany (base sharing, joint army exercises)
- China (German army trains chinese army, army and naval technology export)
- Cascadia (joint use of naval basis and a sharing of intelligence (iirc))
- The Yishuw (Naval Base, arms sales and a great deal of personal overlap due to German jews)
- Egypt (sale of ships, permission to refuel at bases and of course Germany is very concerned about the Suez canal)
- Chilitina (sale of ships)
- Britain (use of bases to refuel, agreement not to enter into an alliance against each other)
- Evincer's nation (TBU) (sale of coastal defence ships)
- Spain (joint naval exercises, great deal of German influence on army and Navy, closest German ally)
- Mexico (canal project)
- Columbia (Panama canal board seat, major shipping route)
- USA (naval tech and intel sharing)

[Norade]

Fucking unreal time. xD

I was figuring that the ultimatum was given in game, and since then far more than 30 minutes have passed but you and France were bluffing. As for the no deal in place in IC, I'm used to games where PM's can be used to convoy IC messages that wouldn't be publicly known, so I shall make a post at the earliest time that I can to formalize German/Portuguese relations and clear this up. Also to be clear my attack is now slated to happen in game a week after your first attacks to give time for the military to be informed and readied and so fleets can be prepared and all that fun stuff.

[Coyote]

Sorry about the lateness of my Trotsky post; it was supposed to be up three days ago (I had it almost completely written then) but that was the day we had the power outages at work. Then, once that cleared up, we had our 2-day moratorium.

Anyhow, better late than not. Now I'll try to catch up.

[Thanas]

First day of war posted. Results were determined by the mods.

I'll post a full map with the german advance and disposition of my own and enemy forces ASAP.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

If you don't mind me, it's likely some of the reconnaissance elements of my navy will likely watch from a far. A bit hard to ignore a naval battle right at my doorstep, don't you think? I happen to control Java except Yogjakarta by the way, and I'm pondering moves on that city. But likely, I prefer a bloodless coup.

[Norseman]

One of the big problems is that the Dutch player is just *not responding* to anything, I've sent him a few PMs myself asking him questions and I've gotten nothing in response. This is particularly annoying since some of my questions and dispositions, if cleared by him, would have changed somewhat the outcome of the fighting... or at least thrown an unexpected complication into the works.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Karmic has a habit of disappearing from time to time. This has happened before in the last game and the game before.

[Minister of Pigeonry]

Are you part of the Franco-German coalition then? I believe Suriname was to be hit by the Spanish forces primarily, logically that'd be different if Portugal was in the coalition.

Alternatively, you're not, which means that Germany and France can basically say "He's not with us, he's just in it for himself" and leave you right back where you've started.

The idea for Spain was pretty much this: Two Flotillas of Subs from Uruguay were to move up and take up positions near Suriname and Curacao/Dutch Antilles, those were to be reinforced by three other Sub Flotillas from the Homeland with a pair of tenders accompanying. Shortly after the Subs from Spain were sent off, the "Assault Fleet" left Spain, cruisers, troop ships, landing ships, DDs, oilers, Seaplane Tenders and supply ships, etc. The bulk of the fleet was to proceed to the naval base at Puerto Limon, Costa Rica while several CAs and DDs were to break off and form a surface fleet to work beside the subs. At this point they would probably already be there, as would the Subs to their positions.

Two or three days after the "Assault Fleet" left Ferrol/Cadiz Queen Marian was to make a statement detailing Spain's "Neutral but Friendly" status towards France/Germany in Europe with an included warning that Spain would "Maintain the security of merchant traffic through the Caribbean with a 'Peaceful Seas Enforcement Fleet'" basically a sugar-coated way of saying Spain is going to blockade the Dutch Caribbean holdings until the Union in Europe surrenders to France/Germany at which point Spain was to commence landing operations and seize Suriname/Curacao, etc. Immediately after the statement a Battlefleet was to set sail and further reinforce the blockade with orders to seize or turn back Dutch merchant ships and sink any Dutch warship attempting to confront or break the blockade. Around the same time, two replacement Sub Flotillas from the Homeland were to leave for Uruguay to bolster the SACDeF down there.

Would have had the post up detailing all of this on Monday but Word died and I lost it, some other things came up as well so it never got posted, then the freeze went into effect.

Never planned any of that out with Norade though, he just sort of jumped in. Figured I'd take the place myself and perhaps sell/cede in good faith a district/department to Portuguese Guyana later on.

As it is, now, I'm not sure if this plan will continue as stated or at all, I've got alot on my plate right now and very little time these days. Just felt I should fill in the blanks in regards to planned Spanish involvement in these events and such.