The infamous Arbeit Macht Frei sign at the entrance to the Auschwitz Nazi death camp in Poland has been stolen.
The wrought iron sign was unscrewed and pulled down from its position above the gate overnight. Police are searching for the culprits.
Polish authorities have denounced the theft, while Israel's Holocaust museum branded it an "act of war".
More than a million people - 90% of them Jews - were murdered by the Nazis at Auschwitz during World War II.
Jarek Mensfelt from the Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum said staff were in shock over the theft.
"It is more than just stealing something. It is a desecration," Mr Mensfelt told the BBC.
He said that visitors came to Auschwitz to "pray, visit and remember" and there had been no threats against the place that he was aware of.
"Somebody who did this must have been a person who had a knowledge of our security system because all the area is closed at night and patrolled and there is a system of cameras.
"This was not an incident - this was a deliberate and organised action."
CCTV footage
Avner Shalev, director of Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial, said the theft "constitutes a true declaration of war".
He added: "We don't know the identity of the perpetrators but I assume they are neo-Nazis."
Polish ex-President Lech Walesa described the theft as "unthinkable".
The BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw says police are interviewing security guards and viewing closed circuit television footage.
It is not clear why it was stolen but museum officials say the widely recognised sign would be difficult to sell.
It is the first time the sign, made by Polish prisoners, has been stolen since it was erected in 1940.
The sign, which is occasionally removed by officials for conservation work, has been replaced by a replica.
During the Holocaust, hundreds of thousands of prisoners passed under the sign, whose words mean "Work Sets You Free", but the vast majority were murdered or worked to death.
The theft comes just days after the German government pledged 60m euros ($86m) to an endowment fund to help preserve the camp.
Auschwitz, which receives more than a million visitors a year, has been run as a state museum since 1947.
Who on earth would want to steal THAT sign? A crazed collector?
I hope that the authorities find it and restore it to its former place.
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!
The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
Is it really sensible that the Israelis quoted immediately jumped to conclusion and assumed it must be a neo nazi "declaration of war" ? It is a despicable act to vandalize a site of such tragic and emotional significance but overreaction is not a good thing.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
Assholes with to much time and to little brains. We had some morons here that amused themselves by vandalizing tombstones just two days ago. Btw that sign was over the entrance to Auschwitz I and not Auschwitz II (Birkenau) which was the real "Death camp" in the Auschwitz system.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
Sarevok wrote:Is it really sensible that the Israelis quoted immediately jumped to conclusion and assumed it must be a neo nazi "declaration of war" ? It is a despicable act to vandalize a site of such tragic and emotional significance but overreaction is not a good thing.
I can't find any source in hebrew to back up this "decleration of war". Quite a few government agencies are denouncing the act, and the Yad Vashem museum doesn't have anything published on it's website about the matter.
Brotherhood of the Bear | HAB | Mess | SDnet archivist |
Yeah, it's all over the media here. The main thing was that the theft was organized and planned in time, since the area is patrolled and there are cameras all over the place. While it's possible it was done by some fuckface neo-nazis, I rather doubt it: what would the political objective of such a thing be?
Most likely, either some dumbass jerkoffs or it was a paid job for a crazy collector of some sort.
CJvR wrote:Btw that sign was over the entrance to Auschwitz I and not Auschwitz II (Birkenau) which was the real "Death camp" in the Auschwitz system.
Yeah, compared to Birkenau, Auschwitz I was downright cuddly. And that's saying a lot, since the place remains incredibly creepy even now, sixty years after it was used in its designated role. It's hard to describe to somebody who's never been there: when me and my wife visited the camp, we literally couldn't finish the tour. We cut and ran after half an hour, and didn't say a word for hours afterwards.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Let's just say the Israelis - and lots of other Jews - are not entirely rational about Auschwitz. Take the kneejerk reaction with a grain of salt.
I've thought of visiting but honestly I don't think I could handle it. Do they still have the piles of human hair on display? I'd be looking at that trying to figure out which piles belonged to my lost aunts, uncles, and cousins. Pretty much everyone in my father's family who didn't get out of Europe by 1939 wound up there, and presumably their remains are still there. I confess to feeling gut-punched at the OP story and I don't normally react that viscerally to graveyard desecration. Granted, stealing the sign isn't the worst that could be done, I'd be a LOT more upset if other parts of the museum were destroyed or vandalized. Maybe it's deniers and those who want to erase a very ugly part of recent history. I can understand the desire to not see it, to pretend it didn't happen, but I can't condone it.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
My friend Avital is a Jew from a Hungarian family; of her grandparents and all their extended family who'd remained behind, only her grandfather survived. The family brought him to Israel after the war, where he promptly disappeared.
They don't know much about his motivations, or where he is or why he did what he did, but he left without a word and now, on the rare occassion they see him or find him, he acts as if they are total strangers. He claims not to know who they are and that they never met, and to leave him alone... or at least last I heard, and as far as I know he may be dead by now, although the family probably would not know.
The best guess Avital had was that the very existence of the rest of the family was a constant reminder of who wasn't there; every face carried some reminder or feature of lost loved ones that weren't just taken, but taken and processed like farm animals. Fat became soap, hair became hatch seal for submarines, etc. It shattered him, and he couldn't stand to see his own relatives any more.
So, yeah, something like this sparks a "knee-jerk reaction" to some people, because for some people the effects are personal and still carry some resonance.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around! If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!! Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
I honestly don't think the holocaust deniers deny the holocaust because they can't believe something that horrible could happen. It seems to me like a lot of holocaust deniers happen to be anti-semites as well, and they don't really deny the holocaust because "it's too painful" or something. They do it because they just hate Jews.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
PeZook wrote:While it's possible it was done by some fuckface neo-nazis, I rather doubt it: what would the political objective of such a thing be?
They are a strange bunch. Perhaps they think it's some mystical symbol or what. I mean, neo-nazis often buy or indulge in "black digging" of SS helmets and drink from them as part of their initiation rituals. Maybe they need it for some rite of passage or what...
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Shroom Man 777 wrote:I honestly don't think the holocaust deniers deny the holocaust because they can't believe something that horrible could happen. It seems to me like a lot of holocaust deniers happen to be anti-semites as well, and they don't really deny the holocaust because "it's too painful" or something. They do it because they just hate Jews.
Certainly.
If it is too painfull for you to think about, then you do not talk about it all the time.
Personally, i suspect some assholish neonazis (the asshole-part is redundant, but meh) that want to desecrate the memories of all those killed there. Fit's there way of thinking and desire for revenge because their "honor" is hurt.
SoS:NBAGALE Force "Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
Shroom Man 777 wrote:I honestly don't think the holocaust deniers deny the holocaust because they can't believe something that horrible could happen. It seems to me like a lot of holocaust deniers happen to be anti-semites as well, and they don't really deny the holocaust because "it's too painful" or something. They do it because they just hate Jews.
That's my experience as well. They are generally people who think that the Nazis gave "Master Race" ideology a bad name, and think that by whitewashing the Nazis, they can make "Master Race" ideology fashionable again. They're the same ones who use "western civilization" as a code-word for "white people".
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
That and, well, those fundamentalist Islamic fanatics who go "death to Israel", like Ahmenawhatshisface in Iran. They even go so far as to organize Holocaust Deniers Conferences, which is just plain loopy. Holocaust Denial is a byproduct of hate, or the kind of stupidity and ignorance that makes one susceptible to hate and its byproducts.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
PeZook wrote:Yeah, it's all over the media here. The main thing was that the theft was organized and planned in time, since the area is patrolled and there are cameras all over the place. While it's possible it was done by some fuckface neo-nazis, I rather doubt it: what would the political objective of such a thing be?
What would any objective for the theft be? We're either dealing with neo-Nazis, or with some kind of deranged collector who just happens to like stealing big chunks of wrought iron, or with someone who's trying to start a thriving "steal national landmarks" industry.
(3) is the province of bad movies, and (2) requires that some one individual actually have been able to hire a group who had no incentive beyond the money to steal the sign and be prepared to "display" it somewhere no one will ever find it.
Unless I'm missing something, (1) is the most plausible explanation.
Shroom Man 777 wrote:That and, well, those fundamentalist Islamic fanatics who go "death to Israel", like Ahmenawhatshisface in Iran. They even go so far as to organize Holocaust Deniers Conferences, which is just plain loopy. Holocaust Denial is a byproduct of hate, or the kind of stupidity and ignorance that makes one susceptible to hate and its byproducts.
True. Their logic is a bit different: they believe that the Israelis constantly play the Holocaust Card in order to demand sympathy for themselves whenever they're caught doing something bad to the Palestinians and they're sick of it. It's actually understandable, since I've seen this irritating "Shut up about Israel because ... Holocaust! Never again!" behaviour myself. Unfortunately, they think the logical answer is to deny the Holocaust rather than point out how incredibly ghoulish it is to use the memory of Holocaust victims as a form of political capital.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Either way, the neo-Nazis and the fundamentalists both view the Jews/Israelis as the enemy and both convince themselves that the Holocaust is some Jew Scheme by the Eternal Jew or Zionists or something.
The fundamentalist Islamic fanatics have the benefit of Israel's various dickeries reinforcing their hateful ideology (doesn't justify it, though), compared to the plain and simple racism of those neo-Nazis.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
From what I understand the islamic fanatics link everything to the state of Israel. If it discredits Israel then it is acceptable for them. They are pretty emotional about it and never think carefully about separating the actions of Israel and Jewish people. Thats why some fringe muslim groups support Hitler even though muslims fall into subhuman category Hitler used.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
PeZook wrote:It's hard to describe to somebody who's never been there: when me and my wife visited the camp, we literally couldn't finish the tour. We cut and ran after half an hour, and didn't say a word for hours afterwards.
I have been there. What struck me was how small Auschwitz I was compared to Auschwitz II which is almost the size of a small city. Perhaps the biggest surprise for me though was that Auschwitz was green, I suspect I expected some eternal grey wasteland to reflect the history of the place.
You can simply see the scale of the camps in Auschwitz (Oswiecim) on Google Maps. Birkenau just west of the city, the vast IG Farben facilities (Auschwitz III) that makes up the eastern half of the city - still fenced by the classic KZ concrete pole and electric wire fence.
I thought Roman candles meant they were imported. - Kelly Bundy
12 yards long, two lanes wide it's 65 tons of American pride, Canyonero! - Simpsons
Support the KKK environmental program - keep the Arctic white!
Shroom Man 777 wrote:That and, well, those fundamentalist Islamic fanatics who go "death to Israel", like Ahmenawhatshisface in Iran. They even go so far as to organize Holocaust Deniers Conferences, which is just plain loopy. Holocaust Denial is a byproduct of hate, or the kind of stupidity and ignorance that makes one susceptible to hate and its byproducts.
True. Their logic is a bit different: they believe that the Israelis constantly play the Holocaust Card in order to demand sympathy for themselves whenever they're caught doing something bad to the Palestinians and they're sick of it. It's actually understandable, since I've seen this irritating "Shut up about Israel because ... Holocaust! Never again!" behaviour myself. Unfortunately, they think the logical answer is to deny the Holocaust rather than point out how incredibly ghoulish it is to use the memory of Holocaust victims as a form of political capital.
I seem to recall somebody here had the idea that it was a way to make the Europeans look bad while simultaneously egging on the folks who really don't believe it happened in his country. Since the Europeans would go and show all this proof that they really did it, and then folks figure they have no right to tell them what sort of weapons they can build or whatever because they did all sorts of horrible things--uh... 65 years ago... yeah...
So their foreign policy is based around a massive tu qoque fallacy or something, if I'm using the term correctly.
WARSAW, Poland – Polish police found the infamous "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign that was stolen from the gate of the former Nazi death camp of Auschwitz after an intensive three-day hunt and arrested five suspects, police said early Monday. The sign was found cut into three pieces.
Police spokeswoman Katarzyna Padlo told The Associated Press that the sign was found Sunday night in northern Poland, the other end of the country from the southern Polish town where the Auschwitz memorial museum is located and where it disappeared before dawn Friday.
Padlo said police detained five men between the ages of 25 and 39 and took them for questioning to Krakow, which is the regional command of the area that includes the Auschwitz museum.
Another police spokesman, Dariusz Nowak, said the 16-foot (5-meter) sign, made of hollow steel, was found cut into three pieces, each containing one of the words. The cruelly ironic phrase means "Work Sets You Free" and ran completely counter to the purpose of Auschwitz, which began as a concentration camp for political prisoners during the Nazi occupation of Poland and evolved into an extermination camp where Jews were gassed to death in factory-like fashion.
The police refused to divulge any details of the circumstances in which the sign was found or to speculate on the motive of the perpetrators. They were expected to disclose more at a news conference in Krakow planned for 0800 GMT (3 a.m. EST) Monday.
The sign that topped the main gate at the Auschwitz memorial site was stolen early Friday, setting off an international outcry at the disappearance of one of the most chilling and best known symbols of the Holocaust. State authorities made finding it a priority and appealed to all Poles for assistance.
Museum authorities welcomed the news with huge relief despite the damage done to the sign. Spokesman Pawel Sawicki said conservation experts will have to determine how best to repair it and that the museum authorities hope to restore it to its place as soon as possible.
Sawicki said the museum staff did not yet know who carried out the theft or why and were themselves waiting for more information from police.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
So in the end, word is that it seems to have been a paid job for some asshole collector, and it ended in destruction of an important historical artefact. Way to go!
On another note, I've never seen our police work so damn fast.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Fuck. What the hell is up with people who want to steal culturally significant shit so they can prop it up on a frame in their living rooms, anyway? Is it just immaturitiy, inconsideration and downright assholeness and conceit and a fuckton of money?
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source) shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN! Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
It's not destroyed. Just weld it back together, then grind the welds down and repaint. Place a note commemorating the sign's cutting.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
MKSheppard wrote:It's not destroyed. Just weld it back together, then grind the welds down and repaint. Place a note commemorating the sign's cutting.
That's pretty much what they plan to do at the museum.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small. - NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
Shroom Man 777 wrote:I honestly don't think the holocaust deniers deny the holocaust because they can't believe something that horrible could happen. It seems to me like a lot of holocaust deniers happen to be anti-semites as well, and they don't really deny the holocaust because "it's too painful" or something. They do it because they just hate Jews.
That's my experience as well. They are generally people who think that the Nazis gave "Master Race" ideology a bad name, and think that by whitewashing the Nazis, they can make "Master Race" ideology fashionable again. They're the same ones who use "western civilization" as a code-word for "white people".
That's the point Deborah Lipstadt made in her book Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory WRT 'holocaust deniers' that drove David Irving nuts and to file his losing libel suit in Britain against her.
Broomstick wrote:Let's just say the Israelis - and lots of other Jews - are not entirely rational about Auschwitz. Take the kneejerk reaction with a grain of salt.
That I can understand and sympathize with, as I wasn't very rational about the subject after my visit to the USHMM several years ago, and I'm neither Jewish nor did I have any relatives who died in a camp.
I'm willing to give them the grain of salt and then some because of that experience.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
So in the end, word is that it seems to have been a paid job for some asshole collector, and it ended in destruction of an important historical artefact. Way to go!
On another note, I've never seen our police work so damn fast.
You may or may not care, but in American English, that's usually spelled artifact
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
"
- PeZook
