You are in control of Hell's Gate (RAR!) (Avatar spoilers)

[Zor]

In this thread, you have been put into the position of the leader of the RDA mining activity on Pandora. Its 20 years into the mining operation and things with the Na'vi are not quite as bad

You're main objective is to oversee the mining of unobtanium for export back to earth, with secondary objective of carrying out of scientific research of the planet. You have at your command the mining complex, the marines and their equipment (including the Dragon) as well as about 20 Avatars. By the Rules set up involving, you don't have any WMDs (Bioweapons, Nuclear Warheads, dropping several hundred tonnes of asteriod onto the Pandoran countryside and things like that) and making them (let alone using them) will not end well for you. Things like the bombing mission towards the end of the film don't fall into the WMD catagory.

Re-enforcements arrive twice every T year with about 200 new personnel. Outside the base are various nasty examples of Pandoran wildlife (Viperwolves, Thanators, Banshees and so forth) and the Na'vi themselves. By default the Na'vi are not inherently hostile to you, although there are some issues and their Hometrees tend to grow over large deposits of the stuff. There is also pressure from back home to at least try to get along with the Na'vi, or at least not Genocide them.

What do you do differently.

Zor

[SylasGaunt]

Go mine elsewhere.

Seriously the big issue in the movie is that Selfridge was a greedy asshole. There's unobtanium elsewhere on planet so go get it from the place that doesn't involve gassing the natives and dropping a big fucking tree on their heads.

Also make sure my security contingent has strict orders not to fire unless fired upon first.

Yeah the RDA's quarterly reports won't be as good but I could sleep at night and it won't get the planet-mind going all 'RAR kill!" at me. Hell make use of the FTL comms to request gear for another mining base closer to other deposits.

Give the science guys time to study more because most of the supplementary material indicates there is some potentially damn useful stuff in all those plants. Try and get a working relationship going with the Na'vi on how the local flora and fauna are used to see if there's applications they can be used for back on Earth.

[Knife]

The movie shows various types of terrain on the planet, from the heavy forested areas to open plains, and even coast line and oceans. I would survey the area for highest concentration of the mineral in easy to access areas; say like the open plains. Most of the damage and deaths in the movie were from animal and Na'vi attacks in the forest where security is a nightmare. Move operations into the open fields, set up base there as well, instead of heavily foilage areas.

Modularize home base so that it is mobile via helo, so you can move it as you advance from mine to mine. Mining trucks go out with at least two helo escorts, one of which is the utility version with a rapid response squad of troops on it, the other can be a gunship. Helo's take up over watch positions above the mining operation and orbit during mining operations. Any ground threats are met with either the gunships engaging in the open, or the rapid response squad landing and taking up positions against land threat. Air threats are engaged with gunship assaults.

An emergency response team of at least another two helos, one utility with rapid response team, and one gunship are at the ready at all times at home base to respond to calls for reinforcements. That or, emergency response team of mecha and foot soldiers at the ready at any given time to scramble aboard the Dragon in case of calls for reinforcements.

[Manus Celer Dei]

The movie shows various types of terrain on the planet, from the heavy forested areas to open plains, and even coast line and oceans. I would survey the area for highest concentration of the mineral in easy to access areas; say like the open plains. Most of the damage and deaths in the movie were from animal and Na'vi attacks in the forest where security is a nightmare. Move operations into the open fields, set up base there as well, instead of heavily foilage areas.

Remember that the Na'vi aren't confined to the forest; there'll still be the "horse-tribes of the plains" who'll probably try to raise merry hell if you attempt digging up any other sites of cultural or religious significance. Though as you point out security and avoiding ambushes will be much easier out there.

[Solauren]

Use Avatar's to make proper contact with the natives, and set up a deal for them to bring me the unobtainium, in exchange for stuff like food and equipment they want but my lack. Or at least set up some sort of co-operation with them. It might be possible the natives can get the mineral from under the home trees without it being a problem.
(unless the home trees need the mineral, then that's a problem)

Failing that, as suggested, find a better place to mine. I might actually do both. If the natives are mining the forest (so to speak), while I do some digging elsewhere, that increases the yield.

Worse case scenario, I could always make agreements with some tribes to work with me against other tribes. If that's the case, it's not genocide, it's 'removing the rebel minority amongst the native population'.

[Bedlam]

Use Avatar's to make proper contact with the natives, and set up a deal for them to bring me the unobtainium, in exchange for stuff like food and equipment they want but my lack. Or at least set up some sort of co-operation with them. It might be possible the natives can get the mineral from under the home trees without it being a problem.
(unless the home trees need the mineral, then that's a problem)

Failing that, as suggested, find a better place to mine. I might actually do both. If the natives are mining the forest (so to speak), while I do some digging elsewhere, that increases the yield.

I dont think the ammount that the natives could bring you would be worth the extra effort. The current mining seems to be large scale strip mining with vehicles taking 10s to 100s of tones of rock at a time the little extra a natives could bring you would not be sufficient. It also depends if unobtainium exists as a pure material or needs to be extracted from ore, you might get 10g of final material to each ton you extract (the lump in the bosses office suggests that it might exist in pure form which would make mining easier and maybe possible by the natives picking up some chunks although its always going to be several orders or magnitude less than the heavy equipment).

[NecronLord]

Changed the title. Because seriously 'Hell's Gate' how specific is that? I thought you were talking about Armegeddon??? until I came in here. I was spoiler free, Erudamn it.

If this isn't about James Cameron's Avatar, which I am not able to see in the immediate future, PM me.

[Tritio]

I go mine elsewhere too. Increase contact and diplomacy among the Na'vi. From what we see in the movie, Grace's team of Avatar Drivers seem to interact mostly with the Forest dwelling Hometree tribe, although in the years that they have been on Pandora, they would certainly have had some contact with the other tribes. However, the extent of that contact is unknown. I would seek to gain influence over one or more Na'vi tribes through friendship, exploitation of technology, or other means in order to gain mining privileges.

And make other improvements as Knife suggested.

[Elaro]

How doable is underground mining? If the humans know where it is, maybe they should just dig a tunnel, install support braces, and mine the mineral out from under the Navi's feet, them none the wiser, and none the poorer.

[Shroom Man 777]

Human civilization seemed to be doing fine without butchering the natives and desecrating their homes, so I'd carry on my operations without butchering the natives and desecrating their homes.

[Serafine666]

I'd start out by blasting the "floating mountains" which have such an overwhelming supply of the stuff that the magnetic field differentials actually cause mountains to FLOAT. In the situation as laid down by the movie and such material as "Avatar: An Activist's Guide" makes it clear that bumping up against the Na'vi is inevitable and frankly, there is no way to practice industrial-scale mining without angering the planetary hive consciousness (then again, the properties of unobtanium make it difficult to practice such mining anyway). My solution would generally resemble the oil industry one: it's not possible to get at the resource without impact so do the impact and then work with the hive mind in some indirect way to fill in the area afterwards with jungle. Relegate the worldtree deposit to the status of shale oil (difficulty makes it unfeasible to mine without massive incentive) as well as any other deposits that are too deeply vital to the natives for a compromise to be reached. But practice a policy of the balance falling one way and not the other: in a conflict between getting unobtanium and placating the natives, you get the unobtanium.

[Nephtys]

Blasting the Mountains may not work, considering it's the bizzare properties of the substance that keeps it afloat. Plus, the giant swarms of Banshees live there. The website says there's 12 of those big spaceships, and they're freighters with 350 ton payloads. Given that the trip takes nearly 6 years (we can presume there's some downtime at earth for refurbishing and maintenance), an arrival every half a year does not really give them a lot of stuff to work with. Especially with no doubt all of their early trips bringing in infrastructure to build that base camp, and all those combat vehicles (and replacements).

[JointStrikeFighter]

Blasting the Mountains may not work, considering it's the bizzare properties of the substance that keeps it afloat. Plus, the giant swarms of Banshees live there. The website says there's 12 of those big spaceships, and they're freighters with 350 ton payloads. Given that the trip takes nearly 6 years (we can presume there's some downtime at earth for refurbishing and maintenance), an arrival every half a year does not really give them a lot of stuff to work with. Especially with no doubt all of their early trips bringing in infrastructure to build that base camp, and all those combat vehicles (and replacements).

Most of the stuff is assembled in-situ using local resources; including most of the combat gear.

[PeZook]

I'd definitely start by supporting the fuck out of the scientists. The environment is completely alien, to the point that not understanding it is fatal (as the movie clearly showed). The Avatar program would be less about convincing the natives to bend over and take it up the ass, and more about learning the ins and outs of the local ecosystems and culture: much like white trappers historically learned Indian ways in order to make a living for themselves and help other white people survive in a completely alien land.

Of course, it's halfway a fantasy: I have to report to my superiors on Earth, who are 4.3 light years away and probably have slightly skewed perspectives on the whole thing. If I can't deliver the bullshit mineral in quantities they demand, I may get removed from my post.

Am I put in charge of the place after it was built, or do I get to chose the site, too?

[mr friendly guy]

Start looking for other places to mine unobtanium. We already can get some from sites which clearly aren't sacred to the Na'vi, so lets start with that. Get the Avatars to find out which are sacred sites for a start.

Try getting it from those floating mountains. Obviously there is the problem of Banshees. I suggest we hire some Na'vi to fly patrol when we mine so that Banshees don't get in the way. This leads to the problem with what to pay the Na'vi with. Roads is not an option (geez, they travel on flying animals, why they hell do they need roads for). Medicine might be an option. It hasn't worked before, but we have no idea how many we tried before. However if that fails, try better bows and arrows. They hunt, thus it might be useful. Its clear that if we have a marine as an Avatar, we could get some lee way with the Na'vi, since it seems to be some sort of novelty for them. Helps with negotiations.

Also let the scientists continue to study the pandoran eco system on the proviso that for any new discoveries they make, we get our share of the pie. Negotiations can settle on the fine print.

[CaptainChewbacca]

If we're going for the amoral, colonialist power route, we can design some narcotic to give to the Na'vi and get them addicted to make them more pliable.

Again, its a horrible and reprehensible thing to do, but it would give us leverage.

[Sarevok]

I will do what RDA did in the Avatar games human side ending. Instead of futile battles I shall seek to understand the workings of the Pandora planetmind.

In the Avatar video game, this strange psionic link can be manipulated by humans as well. If the player chooses to side with the RDA, then the main objective throughout the game is to gather three psionic crystals in certain areas and plant them near specific crystal willow trees, which are said to be where emanations of Eywa concentrate. This is done so that the willow trees emit a beam and signal that activates and points people toward the direction of the Well of Souls. This allows RDA scientists to both find the Well of Souls and build an artificial psionic emitter that emulates an aggressive version of the smaller willow trees' signals, which is then planted in front of the active Well of Souls. This allows the RDA to tap into Eywa itself, control the psionic consciousness, and take control of the planet itself to turn it against the Na'vi, thereby giving the RDA a decisive advantage. Eventually, the RDA is successful in these efforts, and is now inevitably on the way to winning the war against the Na'vi and taking absolute control of Pandora.

http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Eywa

[Shroom Man 777]

Then the UED will have control over its pet Overmind.

Wait, what? Crystals? Psi-emitters? Man. That sounds so familiar.

(where was this stuff in the movie? video games, blah)

[starfury]

Then the UED will have control over its pet Overmind.

Wait, what? Crystals? Psi-emitters? Man. That sounds so familiar.

(where was this stuff in the movie? video games, blah

Just from the previews alone, I got that whole Starcraft vibe, I so intend to treat it as starcraft the Movie, hehhe.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Ignoring the outside text, then...

Reorganise and divide into multiple task groups, call them sections. Sections One and Two are scientific, and all the avatars and associated hardware belong to Section Two.

Section One's job is to understand Pandora in human terms and by human science. Geophysics, magnetic surveys, scan and map and sequence and experiment. Look for, above all else, how Unobtanium actually forms. If it turns out that it is some bizarre product of the planetary ecology, then we may have a problem. If we have to send in a tunneling probe equipped with a superconducting quantum interference detector and tap the roots of Hometree to listen to it- well, why not?

Section Two's job is to understand the natives, and to understand the world in native terms. The Avatars seemed to be appallingly lightly used, with no real attempt to exploit the biological commonalty at all; they should be plugging into things on a routine basis, observing and trying to simulate the life of the natives, with or if necessary without their help, working out how they relate to their world- never mind that, with mid-22nd century genetic technology, and if you can make an Avatar in the first place you should know their biological weaknesses and strengths inside out, that might be more of a Section One thing really.

Section Two are probably going to go native to an extent; Section One can be as xenophobic as they like.

Sections Three and Four are the mining end of the business, Three are the bulldozer jockeys, Terran Methods Division, and their job is to dig damned great holes in the ground. Four's job is to develop devices and methods suited to Pandoran conditions, including deep mining below everything but the local archaeobacteria, and feed them back into, modify and streamline the operations of Section Three.

Five and Six are the military end, Five is the protective forces to cover the miners and the facility- possibly as much against rival corporate forces as much as the natives? Anyway, use as much metal (locally built) and as few warm, squishy, fragile, lawsuit- capable bodies as possible, and look more closely at non- lethal methods. The natives go unarmoured, and we understand their biology thoroughly, so stun and sleep gas and darts don't seem that much of a stretch. Defence against the non- sentient is part of their job too, and may even score points with the na'vi if we can kill off a few of the nastier pests.

Section Six is the end we don't talk about much, the offensive side of the business in case relations break down completely. There would definitely be such a fallback plan, the tricky bit from the industrial point of view is managing to stop it being completely unproductive- have to make the resources it absorbs serve some useful non- worst case purpose. I'm thinking of fast, high altitude strike craft, that as long as they are not needed would be Section One's main geosurvey and probe dropping units.

Other things, presumably the rest of the system has been surveyed? If not, do it at once. There may be deposits on worlds with less advanced and objecting ecologies, there may be other things worth extracting, there may be ecologies that are less dangerous to live with (Although Pandora is practically paradise by the standards of what we could reasonably expect to find)- and of course, lock down rights to any future discoveries made as a result of studying Pandoran ecology and geology.

[Coyote]

Elaro mentioned it: the Na'vi don't seem to mind the human base where it's at. So dig straight down from there, then over a ways underground to reach the unobtanium underground and don't interfere with the Na'vi, except maybe to continue with Avatar diplomacy. The amount of money and effort needed for a military solution would easily pay for a simple tunnel to be dug.

[Kingmaker]

I'd put some effort into finding something to give to the Na'vi to encourage them to cooperate with the mining operation. I find it unbelievable that a interstellar civilization (however weakly that term might be applied) with onsite fabrication technology cannot concoct some sort of cheap trinket to peddle to the hunter-gatherer natives. Sure, I'd believe that they might not be willing to move from their holy tree for anything, but trade them steel tools or guns or free cable in order to get them to provide native guides and help you find good mining sites, or just to get them to leave you alone. I cannot believe that fighting a war is cheaper for RDA than dealing with the Na'vi through diplomacy and bribery and focusing on other ore deposits.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Elaro mentioned it: the Na'vi don't seem to mind the human base where it's at. So dig straight down from there, then over a ways underground to reach the unobtanium underground and don't interfere with the Na'vi, except maybe to continue with Avatar diplomacy. The amount of money and effort needed for a military solution would easily pay for a simple tunnel to be dug.

A 200 kilometer long tunnel

[Highlord Laan]

A 200 kilometer long tunnel

Pish. Why not ask an engineer to do something hard?

The Delaware Aqueduct is what, around 140km? The Seikan(sp?) is a Japanese railway runnel that about...55km, IIRC. And both of those were built with technology that's already been well surpassed. Hell, though it's a "mere" 50km (or so) the Chunnel is an awesome display of engineering under extreme conditions and tolerances. And it was built back in 1988-1994.

In the time that Avatar takes place, I'm pretty sure that geologists and engineers are more than merely capable of working some magic in that area.

[Bounty]

In the time that Avatar takes place, I'm pretty sure that geologists and engineers are more than merely capable of working some magic in that area.

Except, of course, that those projects took place in optimal conditions, with a shitloads of personnel and highly specialized equipment, after years or decades of research and, at least in the Chunnel's case, failed attempts. You don't get that luxury on an alien world.