Australian Opp Leader: All kids must read the Bible

[mr friendly guy]

Is racism really still that ubiquitous in Australia? I mean, over here, it's not really much aside from people commenting on what ethnicity you are, there aren't really much negative stereotypes except for people thinking that Chinese guys are all rich, and that white guys all speak English and make Filipino's noses bleed from their Engrish, or something like that. Well, that could count as racism, but nothing really negative or outright impolite outside of japing even though stereotypes (like, Indians/Arabs smell funny and Koreans are horrible tourists) do exist. But, ah, we aren't typically as frank or as "in your face" about stuff unlike westerners, and we like to act polite and hospitable.

Ask Ando. He makes a lot of comments about it.

Like Lusychan said, some of them are not so obvious about their racism. Look at those threads about Obama and dog whistles and then transcribe it to an Australian setting and you get it.

Australians seem to go through flavour of the month, er I mean of the decades. When Australia starting taking in more non anglo saxon Europeans there was discrimination against them too. In the 80s a lot of Asians got it especially with the Japan scare (ie Japan was buying up our resources, oh noes). Now its mainly muslims. Of note though China seems to be copping the same crap Japan got in the 80s, ie they are buying up our resources, oh noes. Naturally when these parallels are pointed out to say right wing politician like Barnaby Joyce he remarks that he doesn't really remember much from the time of the Japan scare ( I guess alcohol was that good, huh). This is bullshit since I can remember the hoolah over Japan and I am pretty sure I am younger than Barnaby Joyce.

Some examples of racism are obvious about it like those Cronulla riots, and during Australia day when bogans get out desecrating the Australian flag by wearing it to show how patriotic they are and verbally abusing if not physically assaulting those who don't fit their definition of Australian. Naturally they love the country so much they aren't aware of the second verse of the national anthem welcoming migrants.

Another obvious examples is Tony Abbot who is the subject of this thread. In 2006 he pretty much implied that people of certain ethnicities aren't true Australians and was force to back track this statement.

More subtle examples are the double standards.

A few other examples include people calling on us letting WHITE zimbabwean refugees through (at the same time preventing BLACK zimbabweans and a host of other asylum seekers from other countries entering). The worse thing is this double standard is pretty obvious, but people try and explain it away.

Lets not forget the calls to let racist speak their minds as part of free speech (some states have racial villification laws) but we are all in agreement to stop Muslim hate preachers spewing anti Western vitriol. Geez, what happened to your interpretation of what free speech means? These sort of double standards are a bit more subtle, can be tricky to pick up especially if most of the target audience are retards.

Speaking of censorship, politicians can make blatant racist drivel (like Tony Abbott, Ross Lightfoot, Graeme Campbell) but they cry about how British Chef Gordon Ramsay (my current avatar) uses the word FUCK and want to censor his shows. Yep, they debated this shit in parliament. Because you know being rude causes more harm than racism. You know that reminds me of something. Oh yeah, that describes my primary school. Teachers (not all of them) didn't want to be bothered when bogans were spewing racist crap but hey, if you said the F word you were in so much trouble.

Now that being said, this is most probably in lower socio economic shit holes, so it most probably isn't anywhere what you would call ubiquitous.

Now if you work in a metropolitan hospital, the staff are pretty much multi ethnic (even if said hospital is in bogan land) so racism doesn't fly from the staff. As a general rule, as with most countries, the more develop urban areas are less likely to be racist and insular.

[Lusankya]

Of note though China seems to be copping the same crap Japan got in the 80s, ie they are buying up our resources, oh noes.

Actually, you can see some of this kind of racism sometimes outside of bogan culture as well. I've heard people worry about how safe the world will be once China gets powerful enough. Of course, the answer to that is: nothing much, we'll just have to suck up to people who live on Perth time, rather than sucking up to people who live on the other side of the Pacific. There seems to be some kind of idea that a powerful China would go gallivanting off and try to turn the rest of the world into mini-Chinas or something like that, even though there's absolutely no precedent in Chinese history for something like that, unless you count moving the the Philippines and becoming rich importing doodads and fishsticks and producing insane offspring with bleeding breast fetishes as an example of imperialism.

These same people don't care about race on an individual level, but they certainly seem uncomfortable with the idea of a world where the power isn't held in Euro-American hands.

A few other examples include people calling on us letting WHITE zimbabwean refugees through (at the same time preventing BLACK zimbabweans and a host of other asylum seekers from other countries entering). The worse thing is this double standard is pretty obvious, but people try and explain it away.

I recall this happening. Weren't they not only letting white Zimbabweans farmers through, but also giving them preferential treatment over people who didn't have a good chance of being rich enough to buy their way into a first world country? And I bet that some of them weren't even very good at playing cricket.

Say, I heard that Perth is full of white supremacist arseholes expatriate South Africans. Is this true, and if so, how do you remember how it affected local perceptions of Zimbabwean farmers. I don't really know the Australian reaction, because I was in Australia during December-Januray 2001-2, but I remember everyone there being quite convinced that it was the end of civilisation and that all of the blacks were going to take over South Africa next, and they should get out before that happened.

[mr friendly guy]

I recall this happening. Weren't they not only letting white Zimbabweans farmers through, but also giving them preferential treatment over people who didn't have a good chance of being rich enough to buy their way into a first world country? And I bet that some of them weren't even very good at playing cricket.

I am not sure how far it got to be honest. I first heard this idea proposed by Ross Lightfoot, who has shown himself to be racist even before this announcement. AFAIK only a few farmers were flown in to have a look at farmland to see if they could manage it.

Say, I heard that Perth is full of white supremacist arseholes expatriate South Africans. Is this true, and if so, how do you remember how it affected local perceptions of Zimbabwean farmers. I don't really know the Australian reaction, because I was in Australia during December-Januray 2001-2, but I remember everyone there being quite convinced that it was the end of civilisation and that all of the blacks were going to take over South Africa next, and they should get out before that happened.

I must admit I don't remember that vibe here. I am not sure how many expatriate South Africans are of the white supremacist variety here, although you are correct in the sense that we have lots of them. Most white South Africans I know of are educated and not racist. Most of them don't even seem to write to the letters to the editor. Of course I am pretty sure blacks had already taken over south Africa by then - by being democratically elected.

[Lusankya]

I remember South Africa being pretty racist when I was there, but it may have been directed only at the blacks in South Africa, in which case I suppose it could never come up in Australia - or I could just be remembering it wrong. That is always a possibility.

[Shroom Man 777]

You make your country sound fucking horrible. Why should I ever go to South Australia or West Australia? I mean, aside from that those places also have slow internet, expensive video games and won't let me keep my military-grade firearms. Fucking Apartheid Australia.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

You make your country sound fucking horrible. Why should I ever go to South Australia or West Australia? I mean, aside from that those places also have slow internet, expensive video games and won't let me keep my military-grade firearms. Fucking Apartheid Australia.

Well, it so happened that many S. Africans did go to Australia during the great White Migration in the 50s through 70s I think.

[aieeegrunt]

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that non-mandatory classes that directly study scripture might be a good thing; if only to illustrate just how unchristian things like the "prosperity doctrine" and a lot of the other amazingly retarded things touted by the evangelical fundy whacko's are.

My personal take on what Christianity has become is that if Jesus were to return today he'd react to them like he did to the Pharisees, and they would most certainly fall all over themselves to crucify this crazy long hair commie pinko guy and all his anti-materialist love thy neighbour stuff.

[Shroom Man 777]

If Jesus returned today, he'd crucify himself instead. Upon seeing the state of the world today, yeah, he'd be hammering those nails in without any help from no Roman soldiers.

[Darth Wong]

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that non-mandatory classes that directly study scripture might be a good thing; if only to illustrate just how unchristian things like the "prosperity doctrine" and a lot of the other amazingly retarded things touted by the evangelical fundy whacko's are.

The right-wingers would attack any such teachings as "partisan" and forcefully modify the curriculum so that it teaches only what they want it to teach. For example, the part about gays being an abomination.

My personal take on what Christianity has become is that if Jesus were to return today he'd react to them like he did to the Pharisees, and they would most certainly fall all over themselves to crucify this crazy long hair commie pinko guy and all his anti-materialist love thy neighbour stuff.

No, he'd get a reality TV show that comes on after "Mindfreak" and gets much lower ratings.

[The Guid]

If he wants to teach the core of modern civilization, then he should advocate the teaching of the countless philosophical works and ideas that have made up western civilization. The Bible is a legacy in western civilization, not a source.

What kind of works would you recomment? Aristotle? Plato?

Just to be clear I'm not arguing, I just was interested to know what you thought might be good works for that core.

[Lusankya]

It's Australia, so in this case the most important works of the civilisation would be Waltzing Matilda and Neighbours.

And maybe something about Trade Unionism.

[mr friendly guy]

You make your country sound fucking horrible. Why should I ever go to South Australia or West Australia? I mean, aside from that those places also have slow internet, expensive video games and won't let me keep my military-grade firearms. Fucking Apartheid Australia.

Avoid bogan regions and you should be ok. Its amazing there are a lot of Asians who think racism is a thing of the past because they personally don't experience it. I guess those letters to the editors were just made up to sell papers then, and those politicians who actually make racist comments were voted out of power, oh wait. Oh, and they aren't Muslims so its ok.

The point is live in multi ethnic regions and you should be ok. Unfortunately house prices would also be high.

[aieeegrunt]

The right-wingers would attack any such teachings as "partisan" and forcefully modify the curriculum so that it teaches only what they want it to teach. For example, the part about gays being an abomination.

True enough, the bible is being slowly but surely re-written with each new edition to do exactly that. My ex-wife studied hermanutics (I think that is how it is spelled) in bible college, and I remember her frequently commenting upon how newer editions of the bible had not only strayed from the original Greek texts but in many cases had actually reversed meaning entirely.

No, he'd get a reality TV show that comes on after "Mindfreak" and gets much lower ratings.

I think he did that in South Park did he not?

[General Zod]

True enough, the bible is being slowly but surely re-written with each new edition to do exactly that. My ex-wife studied hermanutics (I think that is how it is spelled) in bible college, and I remember her frequently commenting upon how newer editions of the bible had not only strayed from the original Greek texts but in many cases had actually reversed meaning entirely.

It started straying as soon as it was translated from the original iteration. The fact that the original iteration was written decades if not centuries after the fact didn't help much.

[hongi]

I don't know how it was in other states, but in my school we had scripture classes on Tuesday for the various denominations of Christians, non-Christians either opting out by parental permission or siting in a room for an hour bored out of our freaking minds.
Personally, I love literature and I can appreciate the enormous impact that the Bible has made on most Western cultures. And if you're reading Shakespeare, or studying Renaissance art, or Paradise Lost, it'd really help to know the Bible. But I don't think kids should study it at school. The Bible comes with too much religious baggage for it to be taught neutrally and critically. And note that Abbott doesn't have kid's educational interests at heart:

BIBLE classes should be compulsory so children have a fundamental understanding of Christianity on leaving school, federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says.

"I think it would be impossible to have a good general education without at least some serious familiarity with the Bible and with the teachings of Christianity.

No matter how crazy our leaders are, in the end I trust in the apathy of our population towards our religion. Christmas isn't the birth of our Lord and Saviour, it's the Sun, the beach and the footy!