How would you design a sci-fi sword?

[adam_grif]

I was always amused that the T1000 couldn't make "complex machines", but had no problem forming a human body complete with moving eyes, mouth, voice synthesizing and musculature. Obviously it isn't the same internally, but it's still a bit odd.

There's a world of difference between mimicking the three-dimensional shape of something and having a wide range of vocal abilities, and being able to mimic the chemical reactions needed to fire bullets and power explosions. I'm pretty certain the T-1000 could easily make a part of its body into something that looked, sounded and moved exactly like a rocket launcher, it just couldn't actually fire rockets with it as that involved a chemical reaction its body wasn't capable of producing.

As for the OP, I'd actually concentrate on something that looks more like a shield than a sword. Assuming reasonably unlimited access to magi-wank technology, an arm-mounted energy shield that could easily alter its size and dimensions to provide necessary coverage from small arms fire to explosives, 'anchoring' itself to the entire body in general to mitigate the kinetic force of small arms fire, or the nearest sturdy surface for anything larger. And if you were close enough, you could still easily bash someone over the head with it.

I'm more than aware it needs chemicals in order to create the chemical reactions, but Ahnawld explicitly states that it can't form "complex machines". Obviously, it can form some complex machines.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Obviously, it can form some complex machines.

I always presumed that meant "machines made of multiple parts". A human form is complicated, but it's also only one piece. I expect that the "clothing" it wears in human guise is also really a part of the whole and not something worn.

[Ryan Thunder]

Some sort of liquimetal design, like Shroom said, similar to the T-1000. It would also transfer more mass to the tip of the blade as you swung it, adding heft to the chop, so you'd slice right through shit easier. The blade could transform into a machete style (broad, stubby, and tough) or a kukri, or an axe, broadsword, even an epee, etc. And the blade would be eversharp, being able to reform itself even after each chop.

I had an idea like this once, ages ago. It was supposed to be made of "smart" materials. The default setting was a rod, and that could be turned into a sword, an axe, an E-tool, or any of a number of other handy things. I think I called it a U-tool or something. "Shiftmetal" was the material.

[Ghost Rider]

Obviously, it can form some complex machines.

I always presumed that meant "machines made of multiple parts". A human form is complicated, but it's also only one piece. I expect that the "clothing" it wears in human guise is also really a part of the whole and not something worn.

The novel and movie do agree on this. The novel goes into more detail that all of it just a mimic look, it creates the eyes and the rest to look human but nothing more underneath. The movie demonstrates multiple times in that it will show an bumps then clothing but not really a seperate cloth piece from the alloy whole.

[adam_grif]

It probably could make machines made of multiple parts, since the liquid metal globs are shown to be able to survive separation and crawl towards each other. If it can create solid metal shapes it should be able to make gears and so on, since the metal even separated from its peers is obviously capable of generation motion. Somehow.

It seems to be cannonical that it can't, but to me at least it doesn't really seem consistent with what it's shown to be able to do. The eyes move independently of the rest of the head, so it seems capable of creating separate movable parts. I don't even want to think about how complicated the T-1000's programming must be if it's accurately simulating gravity's pull on his fake clothing, how it reacts to motion, creasing etc.

[Shroom Man 777]

The entire liquid metal "thing" that is the T-1000 also contains all its intelligence. That's why when the T-1000 got separated into separate tiny globules, those tiny globules were dumb and all they could do was to instinctively seek out their "main body" to reform into a whole T-1000.

Anyway, that shit is complex and takes too much processing power when the T-1000 can just use a gun or form an icepick with its finger and stab you in the face while you go "SQUAWK!"

[adam_grif]

When I was watching that I was always wondering. Even if they said "Nanomachines" it would make more sense than "liquid metal" (even then it's a stretch). You could probably just brush it aside as a terminology difference, except that in T3 it IS explicitly stated to be nanomachines, not liquid metal for that bitch's skin. Unless my memory is failing me.

I suppose you can't blame Cameron though. He wasn't involved with that bloated monstrosity of a film.

But continuing on, even if individual parts are too dumb to do much thinking, presumably they can be given orders to form a shape then be broken off from the whole and left that way. Instant gears.

Also, while we're on the subject, how the fuck is that thing powered?

[Ford Prefect]

Some sort of liquimetal design, like Shroom said, similar to the T-1000. It would also transfer more mass to the tip of the blade as you swung it, adding heft to the chop, so you'd slice right through shit easier. The blade could transform into a machete style (broad, stubby, and tough) or a kukri, or an axe, broadsword, even an epee, etc. And the blade would be eversharp, being able to reform itself even after each chop.

There is nothing my zankatou cannot cut! Okay, I don't think this is quite what you had in mind, but I couldn't help but think of it.

I'm never actually sure how vibroblades and so on are meant to work, are they meant to have little teeth or something that tear flesh? The original(?) Heinlein appearances seem pretty uninstructive in what the actual mechanism is, too.

The idea is that the blade itself is supposed to vibrate extremely fast, and it sort of 'chews' through materials. In slightly more spectacular usages of this particular weapon it leaves edges glowing due to the mechanical heating caused in the process. I'm not actually sure whether this would really work, but it's such an intrinsic part of sci-fi that I just assume that it will (it's also pretty elegant, in a way: it's so much simpler than anything other than 'strong blade with laser cut edges').

[Oskuro]

I'd go with a 40k style chainsword. It might have many flaws, but I don't think anyone would want to fight someone wielding that monstrosity. So intimidation bonus, and while the other combatant flinches, you put a bullet through his head.


An idea I had for a fiction of mine was a kind of drill, with a red-hot cutting part wich could be launched as a projectile when worn and then replaced with a new one.

[andrewgpaul]

... Mobile Suit Gundm SEED in the form of the anti-ship swords that a few people are packing. It's a fairly cool and unique visual motif for a series that otherwise has no positive visual motifs, but in practice they weren't much different to generic beam sabers.

That reminds me; Dream Pod 9's Jovian Chronicles game (Gundam with the serial numbers filed off, basically) had its giant robots armed with 'plasma lances' - basically a hand-held (well, by a 20 metre robot) plasma cutting torch. They functioned like the usual SF 'beam sword' melee weapon, but they had a limited burn time until they ran out of juice.

[Lord Revan]

if it's not banned under the "no lightsabre" rule, I'd have something similar to a WH:40k powerswords granted there's the issue of maintaining it during long campains.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I'm surprised there isn't more support for a 40K-style power-sword. It seems to be the next best thing after a lightsaber; most of the same capabilities at the expense of requiring a physical blade (in the conventional non-lightsaber type, of course).

I'd want something akin to the usual 40K "heavy arming sword" style. Compact enough to be scabbarded at one's side while hefty enough to hack through Big Nasty Alien carapace and function un-powered. The blade shape itself is versatile and time-tested; you can thrust, swing, hack and so on with no particular limitations, weaknesses, or specialized benefits. I'd want a "hand-and-a-half" grip; hacking up Big Nasty Aliens is usually not a one-handed job.

Oh, and purity seals and other dangly bits for fashion.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I'd just stick with a regular non-vibrating, non-bizarro-tech sword. Taking advantage of the latest in whatever sci-fi materials technology is being used, of course. Less to go wrong, and less to break. Instead, I'd enhance the user with the usual genetic engineering, cybernetic implants and assorted nanomachinery to make a sword-wielder fast enough and strong enough to make a sword a feasible weapon when one's opponents are blaster-wielding and armored. As for the type of sword, it would have to be a good cut-and-thrust sword of modest length. Enough curve to allow for efficient cutting, but not so much to make it hard to thrust.

Though if I were to go crazy with technology, I'd use some manner of retractable tough, flexible, multi-segmented monofilament suspended between two points. This would be more like a kind of highly-lethal, variable-length sword-whip thing, though.

[Knife]

As with most threads like this, designing a weapon requires that you know what you are going to use it for. If it is purely for looks and 'cool' factor and we can't have a lightsaber, I'm rather found of the chainsaw on a sword concept from either 40k or other sources. Fallout has a niffty one too...

Like this one

[Zixinus]

I think it would be better to go look for an utility niche first.

I mean, take lightsaber as an example: It was made in mind with the Jedi's precognition and Force abilities, so they can block blaster bolts or whatever. Combined with its terrific cutting ability, it can be used for any purpose suddenly needed on hand.

I can see two utility niches:

One if the form as a manoeuvring aid in zero gee. The aforementioned telescopic staff idea. One can expand on that by sticking stuff to the ends. Spears are more typical weapons for humans than swords are.

The other would be something used for thick terrain, such as jungles. Machetes are already used, some people are moving towards kukris. How about building on the telescopic staff idea, but with only one side? You can stick an axe-head on the end, saws, or even a curved blade for general chopping? You can add more and more heads as you need for the situation, thus allowing such a tool to become a more flexible weapon than any machete?
Or hell, create a machete that combines all these functions, with a spike for penetrating armour and ice?

[Nyrath]

I vaguely remember a couple of weird sword-like weapons designed to be used in free-fall when the opponents were clad in space suits. They were featured in a story collected in BODY ARMOR: 2000, but I do not remember the story or author (Harry Harrison?).

"drillgers" -- Diamond drill with gas vents to propel it forward

scissor-clamps -- hydraulic scissors designed to cut your opponent's leg off -- slowly. You swing it to attach it to your opponent's leg, then let go. The weapon takes it from there.

swords and axes -- each with propellants to move the blade by reaction as well as force of arm

cattle-prods -- electric shock (useful only against non-insulated suits)

[RedImperator]

However I do recall a plausible scifi usage that seemed realistic at the time. Side arms on a spaceship.

Using both the Babylon 5 justification for not having projectile weapons and the Turtledove World War series justification for why the Race had swords in space is understandable, when in a space ship it might be possible that spraying around closed sealed cabins might do something that goes boom.

I could see swords capable of easily cutting through space suits and mobile power armor as being feasilbe in a situation where its tactically preferable to board and capture enemy ships, in this case it will probably be something reasonable in size and hopefully easily controlled so you don't hurt your comrades.

So as a kind of assault weapons for in spaceships or maybe even in HEV walks outside a station or ship?

No chance. Penetrating the hull isn't exactly a non-problem, but the spaceship isn't going to go "boom" just because you put a 9mm hole in the hull. Even without doing any math, it should be intuitively obvious; try to imagine a room in your house, even a small room like the bathroom, and how long it would take to drain all the air out through a bullet hole. There'll be plenty of time to patch it over. Anyway, if you're worried about penetration, a load of birdshot at close range will take down a man, and I'm sure clever engineers could come up with other ways to kill or incapacitate a human without endangering the hull.

There's no reason to use swords in boarding actions, on either side. Even if you're concerned about penetrating the hull, or there's a danger of hitting tanks of flammable liquids or high-pressure gases, nobody's going to take the risk of getting caught bringing knives to a gunfight. Other than as ceremonial weapons (for duels or executions or whatever), there's no more room for swords in hard SF than there is in realistic present-day military fiction.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

My sensible side agrees; in fact, I'm half convinced that a carelessly wielded sword ripping a long gash in a hull compartment or through a cable run may be more damaging than a stray bullet. For a foot soldier, survival tools that could concievably be used as weapons if all other options are exhausted, but are primarily for field engineering and fortification, are a much better bet- although I do suddenly need to find an excuse to write a broomstick duel.

Shields, on the other hand...I've had this idea kicking around for a while, I'm not sure if the chemistry of it makes sense, but I'm thinking of a spinoff from the Personal Re-Entry Kit, the first thing Google turns up is an RPG reference that was supposedly based on a real NASA project, a last ditch emergency measure.

Basically, a hemispherical mould is spread around the astronaut, and filled with ablative foam- and the astronaut proceeds to plummet through the upper atmosphere cased in this temporary heatshield. As the ultimate in parachuting (oh, yeah- remember to bring a parachute), even if it doesn't work for abandoning a crippled spaceship it might take off as an extreme sport.

I'm actually thinkng of other applications for the technology; if personal energy weapons ever take off, sprayon ablative foam- or aerogel- as applique armour, near-instant fortification, you could even carry lumps of the stuff to use as shielding in the old- school sense.

If it takes long enough to set that it can be shaped, then we have another dimension of possibility- and Im not sure how much physical resistance could be got out of it, but if there is any possibility that it could be used to stop bullets, that could be very useful.

I suppose eventually we'd be looking at something like Judge Dredd's riot foam- and how much use would that stuff be in grenades?- or the goopball guns from The Incredibles. Actually a hull sealing patch slapped over an unsuited person's face would be a murder weapon, would it not?

Which loops right back to pioneer tools again- how do you clear this stuff up after the fight is over? OK, it's be easier to spot than landmines, but still a project. Is there any way to improve the basics of spade, pick, axe? Short of mechanisation, that is- that's the usual real world answer.

[Oskuro]

I'm half convinced that a carelessly wielded sword ripping a long gash in a hull compartment or through a cable run may be more damaging than a stray bullet.

And that would be a believable scenario for the use of close combat weapons, that is, power tools that see secondary use as weapons, as a boaring party would certainly have use for something able to cut through a door.

I haven't played it yet, but from what I'vea heard, Dead Space follows that notion, making all its guns actual power tools that the player wields as weapons... And failing miserably by making it completely ludicrous as tools.

Regarding shields, a collapsible shield could be useful aganist incoming light arms fire too, so it might be even more sensible than a sword.

[Nyrath]

Shields, on the other hand...I've had this idea kicking around for a while, I'm not sure if the chemistry of it makes sense, but I'm thinking of a spinoff from the Personal Re-Entry Kit, the first thing Google turns up is an RPG reference that was supposedly based on a real NASA project, a last ditch emergency measure.

Basically, a hemispherical mould is spread around the astronaut, and filled with ablative foam- and the astronaut proceeds to plummet through the upper atmosphere cased in this temporary heatshield. As the ultimate in parachuting (oh, yeah- remember to bring a parachute), even if it doesn't work for abandoning a crippled spaceship it might take off as an extreme sport.

I believe they are talking about MOOSE (Man Out Of Space)
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/moose.htm
There were several related concepts.
http://www.astronautix.com/craftfam/rescue.htm

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

However I do recall a plausible scifi usage that seemed realistic at the time. Side arms on a spaceship.

Using both the Babylon 5 justification for not having projectile weapons and the Turtledove World War series justification for why the Race had swords in space is understandable, when in a space ship it might be possible that spraying around closed sealed cabins might do something that goes boom.

I could see swords capable of easily cutting through space suits and mobile power armor as being feasilbe in a situation where its tactically preferable to board and capture enemy ships, in this case it will probably be something reasonable in size and hopefully easily controlled so you don't hurt your comrades.

So as a kind of assault weapons for in spaceships or maybe even in HEV walks outside a station or ship?

No chance. Penetrating the hull isn't exactly a non-problem, but the spaceship isn't going to go "boom" just because you put a 9mm hole in the hull. Even without doing any math, it should be intuitively obvious; try to imagine a room in your house, even a small room like the bathroom, and how long it would take to drain all the air out through a bullet hole. There'll be plenty of time to patch it over. Anyway, if you're worried about penetration, a load of birdshot at close range will take down a man, and I'm sure clever engineers could come up with other ways to kill or incapacitate a human without endangering the hull.

Already done. Frangible handgun rounds that will stop people just fine, but will break up in sheet-rock. Even if the boarders are still in vac-suits, absorbing the momentum from a magazine worth of handgun rounds may put them off-balance for long enough to be subdued by the ship's crewpersons.

[Korvan]

I imagine if you were doing a 'monomolecular' blade, you'd probably need to have the scabbard 'sharpen it' to maintain such a level of thinness or something, given that it would begin to erode immediately on being drawn. This assumes you don't have some kind of stasis field or whatever protecting it. Of course, even blunted somewhat, that is surely likely to remain a very, very, sharp object.

I'm honestly not sure how monowire is meant to work; I'd think if a single molecule line cut through someone's arm, the disruption would actually be minimal without some other damage mechanism.

The monomolecular blade in a stasis field is pretty much a variable sword from Larry Niven's Known Space series. It's pretty much a single molecule thick wire encased in a stasis field. The variable part refers to it's length as the sword hilt contains a spool of the wire. Some of the swords can extend out to a pretty ridiculous length, several kilometers I believe. The sword is reported to cut through almost anything save for the series' few super-materials.

As for the disruption, having your arm cut with a mono-wire will cause little tissue damage, the chemical bonds along the cut should still be disrupted and thus part of your arm is coming off.

[Zixinus]

I think that for an utility niche, I can only see one situation where we could legitimately talk about swords or axes or other melee weapons: when you have enemies that come in the form of hordes and more hordes, and where running out of ammunition is a legitimate worry. Even if not issued, people will start doing things better than their bayonets, if not outright buying them.

Or the closest equivalent of survivalist, except that of primitive cultures. That could be a neat story: a highly-trained soldier entering a human culture that has regressed back into the medieval age or before. Interestingly, my father got such an idea.
Ultra-super-BOOM gun is going to be worthless as shit the moment it runs out of ammunition or if a part goes bad in such an environment. So you would want something that you can always use, has no moving parts and still gives you an edge. The best sword money and future technology can buy would look like a given, especially if one is trained with it. Other stuff, like bodily modifications, will also be used of course, but if given a choice, why not ask for an uber-sword to go along with the whole deal?

One other application I can see, as a melee weapon would be people born in low gravity using such to compensate for their weak physical strength against people that have better physical strength than them. Such as people that grew up in normal gravity or even aliens.

The last application I can see, is gang wars. You can make some kind of arbitrary-super-powerful gun control in a society that is otherwise lawless. Gang members can't use guns, so they'll go for the next best thing. Swords, spears, axes. Of course, hand-made guns and explosives will come around, but those will be regarded only as necessarily extreme measures. Most thugs will go for more simple weapons like that, especially once blood gets involved, and when they're swimming in money they won't be afraid to get the best sword one can buy.

But in the end of the problem, we hit a bit of a wall: an ignorance of what to expect from a sword. Swords of any kind were always produced to a specific task, to specific expectations against certain kind of enemies. Same is true for any weapon really. But the knowledge base of using swords diminished and kept alive by tradition and as a sport because we cannot find any useful purpose for anything resembling a sword aside that of cutting tree branches out of the way. One would need to deeply immerse themselves into what a sword is and how they are designed to even begin to see how one could try to make a role for anything futuristic. The swordsmiths of old knew their job well: they could have done better metallurgy, but in their design and execution, they created tools that usually done the job exactly how it was expected of them.

[NecronLord]

As for the disruption, having your arm cut with a mono-wire will cause little tissue damage, the chemical bonds along the cut should still be disrupted and thus part of your arm is coming off.

How? It's in a stasis field, which nivenverse, doesn't interact chemically or electrically.

[Lord of the Abyss]

As for the disruption, having your arm cut with a mono-wire will cause little tissue damage, the chemical bonds along the cut should still be disrupted and thus part of your arm is coming off.

How? It's in a stasis field, which nivenverse, doesn't interact chemically or electrically.

A chemical bond isn't going to keep working through a stasis field; it'll break as the stasis field passes between the two bonded atoms; it will quite likely immediately bond to something else.