NecronLord wrote:Heh. I'd not thought about that... nifty. Though of course, we don't get it confirmed, and the demise of Van Statten might stop that happening.
Well, either way we still get a Democrat... because they're just so funny.
Martha's dad was rich (did you see his motor?), and while annoying, wasn't some kind of Dick. And the PotUK was awesome - not arrogant. He was the President. His only failing was ignoring a waiter he'd never met who claimed to inexplicably know about cybermen.
Neither of those came to mind when I wrote it, although, to be honest, no one came to mind. I'm not sure why, but I just got the impression that the Naismiths' personalities seemed almost copy-pasted from other characters.
By the way, what knocked out the Doctor in the junkyard after Naismiths' goons' captured the Master? And what kind of person writes in his own book that he's got private army of henchmen at his beck and call?
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."
Naismith's dialog made me cringe. "No I don't want the machine for myself, it's for my daughter! Hee hee hoo hoo."
Come on, you're seriously saying you have an immortality machine and you don't want to use it? Fuck off. Yes I figure he's just saying that and would intend to use it but it was still a silly line.
I did like Dalton's character describing him and his daughter as "the two idiots".
"No it's just Anacrap coming to whine and do nothing." -Mike Nelson on Anakin Skywalker
The Time Lords seem to have their own equivalent of Dalek Caan in the ruins of their Citadel; a wild haired elderly woman with googly eyes who can predict the future.
That gauntlet that Lord President 007 uses looks pretty similar to that damn gauntlet from Torchwood; they were only intended to be used by Time Lords, not humans, hence why he used it on a subordinate with such effective deftness.
Wouldn't it be fantastic if it was Ms You Know Who from the novels? Because bolting your Classics class onto Time Lords made for excellent drama.
Darwin wrote:Darn they missed a good chance of making President Romana into a worthy antagonist for the Doctor and instead swapped in President Bond. =/
They missed the chance to make Romana into a villain? I'm thankful they did miss that.
I wouldn't mind Romana as President if a benevolent one, but if they're going to go evil, then they should have original ones, or the likes of the Rani.
Stark, I'm not sure who 'Miss You Know Who' is meant to be?
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Well there is a difference between antagonist and villian.. not that I expect RTD to know that.
It seems that President Bond is going to be firmly in the "drooling villian" category so Romana's better off out of the picture.
... unless she's that mystery lady.
"No it's just Anacrap coming to whine and do nothing." -Mike Nelson on Anakin Skywalker
So I just watched the part one and... Wow, where to begin.. So first off... Spoiler
Just WTF Was up with the beginning. Ok I knew the Master was going to come back, but doing it with 'magic' potions, cultists chants and some arcane ceremony? Wheres the tech? I expected Frankenstein sparks and machinery, lightning and cries of "Hes Alive, HES ALIVE!!" And WTF is up with his 'cult' How do you even GET a "cult of Saxon" ? Along with "The Word of Saxon" What are we Harry Potter or Dr.Who?
And then of course there is Saxons wife... Forced to watch this whole spectacle.. I KNEW she was going to do 'something' and for the life of me I kept waiting for her to just rush forward and knock the damn bowel over.. But no, suddenly we get this speech about "Potions of Life, and Potions of Death!" she uses a vial and somehow THAT Screws up the regeneration? Why couldn't she just run forward and knock the bowel over.. but no, seems everyone here is dabbling in the Occult and making Magic Potions! Woopie!!!
AND all THAT nonsense is just in the first 10 minutes... So THEN we fast forward too... Spoiler
The big Cliff hanger! the event that naturally HAS to happen in order for there to be much angst and danger all all of that! And what do we have? Some Device that it turns out has the ability to 'imprint' genetic information not on one person, but a whole planet... Oh yes once we know this the Masters Plan is obvious. I knew what was going to happen Long before the Doctor did, at least in the Show. Which once more brings me to how the Doctor "should" act, and how he is "forced" to act because that is what plot dictates.
So he gets this information in the basement of said device, Chance #1, use Sonic Screwdriver on equipment to shut it down or deactivate it. Baring that, Smash said equipment. Of course that doesn't happen, the Doctor, as per plot, has no idea what will happen, he rushes upstairs to find The Master walking into the device. Now does he know what is going to happen? Nope, not yet...The Master for his part just STANDS there and makes no attempt to stop the Doctor. Which is Fitting because the DOctor, after smashing some keybored half heartedly, makes NO attempt to stop the Master. Chance#2 once again, use Sonci Screwdriver to.. oh, disrupt the machine, cut power supplies, scramble computers. I htought of a half dozen things I might do that could in theory stop shut down or blow up said Device... but "plot" dictates this doesn't happen.
And finally, FINALLY the Master reveals his secret plan, the Doctor is SHOCKED, even though I figured it out several minutes ago.. go figure... So now what happens? The Doctor now knows the Master is going to physically turn every last Human on Earth into 'clones' of himself. It is truly the End of the World, the End of HUmanity! He KNOWS now what will happen.. And what does he do? Well in a last desperat act, perhaps, just perhaps he could Fling himself into the machine! The Master and Doctor locked together in deadly Embrace! The feedback perhaps destroying the machine. Killing the Master and would lead to the Doctors Regeneration!
What does he do?
Nothing.
Yep for a good 45 seconds the Doctor, knowing that Master is turing the world population into clones of himself, just looks on with his thumbs up his ass. Way to good writers! And how exactly does that work? Oh sure they handwave it saying it 'imprints' information and rewrites it.. But are you going to tell me that it can turn every last person into a white male about 5ft7 190lbs? How about the whole population of children or anyone 10years older or 10years younger then his body type? What happens ot someone weighing a good 300lbs? The body fat just walks away? Was there no one person on the writting stuff who took one look at this and said "WHOA! Wtf are you thinking there?" ??
Stuff anything positive about this, I couldn't stand it and the fact you have "The Timelords™" returing makes my skin crawl!!!
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
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NecronLord wrote:Stark, I'm not sure who 'Miss You Know Who' is meant to be?
Sorry. I mean the Pythia, the stupid crap about Karn and the Timelords being sterile and their mythic past of stupid crap. Lungbarrow was a cool book but it was fuck stupid and that whole lame backstory of the Timelords (even dumber than Peel's made-up nanomachine timeloop from the Gallifrey Chronicles 'sourcebook') would add some RTD flavour to the story.
That old prophecy lady reminded me of the priestess of Karn (Brain of Morbius). Of course from the EU we learn that the priestesses themselves were split of from the Pythia who were Gallifrey's political elite before some upstart named Rassilon overthrew them.
I personally thought that was a nice touch, and it makes Time Lord society seem less sterile, and more interesting, albeit bordering on giving a fantasyesque / mystical flavour, without going overboard and detracting from what has been a strong theme throughout Who, science *. But then Jedi Knights and other force sensitive cultures give SW a similar flavour.
Since we don't do these any more, I am going to with the tech and vs notes.
So far only tech worth noting is the
1) resurrection potions - man this smacks of D & D, however quite useful when you don't have the awesome tech available which some Whoverse races eg Time Lords, the People have. Presumably it can be manufactured by a relative low tech world.
2) "immortality gate".
While used for a medical purpose, you can see straight away how this is going to be turned into a weapon. The Doctor managed to shield Wilfred relatively easy enough, so presumably cultures with actual force fields will be able to resist. However I can see it useful over conquered planets (if the villains are particularly nasty) or it smuggled in my stealth.
Most probably won't work against Cult of Skaro daleks with their shields, however regular footsoldier (even Time War and post time war daleks) haven't demonstrated shields.
Oh, I can see the potential for this device in so many sci fi universes. WH40K springs to mind.
Other vs notes
1) the Master's powers. Gained as a side effect of screwed up resurrection.
*Generally TL have been shown to be a bit more resilent to damage than the average humans (although not necessarily stronger), and certainly not able to leap so high.
*Telekinetics and can create an illusion which can interact with the physical world (Planet of Spiders, old series).
The master now can fire energy beings against people, although I don't think this is necessarily more effective than telekinesis. Also he needs to draw on his life force for it. It most probably isn't such a stretch, since the Doctor himself managed to draw upon the will of humanity to de-age himself and levitate, block blasts from the master's laser screwdriver etc, so the Master is merely drawing from a different source.
* when I say science, I refer to how the Doctor's knowledge mostly comes up with some manouvre requring science, whether its building a device, or reasoning out how the bad guys machines work etc, and not like "trust your feelings". I should also had the Doctor's statement in Daemons to Jo Grant about how everything has a scientific explanation does encapsules one of the themes of DW, the triumph of science over ignorance. And if we must bring in the EU, Lawrence Miles "christmas on a rational planet" shows scientific orientated TL defeating the forces of magic long ago such that there is no magic in the Whoverse.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
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Huh? Regular footsoldier Daleks were loaded with shields in Dalek and Parting of the Ways.
Don't get me started on how stupid and childish it is to 'defeat' magic with 'science' so that it's gone because ... somehow.. and magic represents ignorance... somehow... even though it's empirical, repeatable, etc. It's like saying the Time Lords beat up Einstein so nuclear power is impossible.
Stark wrote:Huh? Regular footsoldier Daleks were loaded with shields in Dalek and Parting of the Ways.
I just thought they had heat shields to burn up bullets before they even came in contact with the outer shell. I suppose if the heat shield is hot enough it would change the refractive index of the air surrounding the dalek sufficiently, thus laser weapons might refract away missing it completely. Not sure how that would work against other energy weapons or the technobabble immortality gate mechanism for that matter.
Stark wrote:
Don't get me started on how stupid and childish it is to 'defeat' magic with 'science' so that it's gone because ... somehow.. and magic represents ignorance... somehow... even though it's empirical, repeatable, etc. It's like saying the Time Lords beat up Einstein so nuclear power is impossible.
Yeah its stupid in the sense that magic represents ignorance even though its as you say repeatable and empirical. The EU tries to paint the TL as the forces of rationality (not sure its just a cultural force or actually something more) forgetting that magic is considered irrational in real life because it doesn't work. Unfortunately since the author has just stated it works in universe it will no longer be irrational to believe in it.
Maybe the TL disliked magic because a) its more easily accessible to primitive cultures b) only accessible to a select few, like the Pythia while technology could be made to be more accessible to the general population
Now as to whether it can be made to stop working, that would depend on the rules governing it. In which case its whatever the hell the author wants "magic" to be able to do. In Lawrence Mile's case he wants it to behave quite differently from other known natural phenomena. I personally find this interpretation of magic to not sit as well with me as opposed to "magic is just another natural law" business (I assume you do as well). However as far as I can tell, the author hasn't broken his own rules in doing so.
Oh, and having science defeat magic so that its gone or weaken may start to become a bit of a trope among science fiction fantasy. Just ask Green Lantern or Terry Goodkind.
BTW - Christmas on a rational planet was actually rated quite highly among Who novels AFAIK. Not that I have read it.
On another note, are you sure the Pythia were mentioned in Lungbarrow. I could of sworn they appeared in this novel
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Just WTF Was up with the beginning. Ok I knew the Master was going to come back, but doing it with 'magic' potions, cultists chants and some arcane ceremony? Wheres the tech? I expected Frankenstein sparks and machinery, lightning and cries of "Hes Alive, HES ALIVE!!" And WTF is up with his 'cult' How do you even GET a "cult of Saxon" ? Along with "The Word of Saxon" What are we Harry Potter or Dr.Who?
Surely you jest? You are watching Doctor Who and expecting rock-hard nerd-wank SF with big capital letters? Dream on. Half of all the tech in Who is indistinguishable from magic (oh dear where did we hear that one before) and there is precisely zero wrong with the Master using some strange Time Lord special brew to bring himself back to life*. And him having a cult is even less of a problem; remember that he had years to prepare for contingencies, so keeping a backup of himself and training some poor misguided idiots to restore it via rote memory 'rituals' is not exactly a stretch.
* Of course, that's not what happened: he used one of those Time Lord memory backup devices (his ring), except this one didn't have a body to imprint on so he probably needed the liquids to have the ring reconstruct one from scratch - which fits with previously established Time Lord tech. Don't let that stop you from whining about Potter, though.
Well, with regards to the Master's resurrection, I actually thought it was a pretty effective scene.
(Dodges a pile of rotten tomatoes).
It actually fits in with what The Master would actually do to human followers who he despises. We know that he thinks humans are stupid. At the same time, we know that there are many scientific methods with which a Time Lord can be brought back. We know that The Master had his own political party with something of a strong following. Last but not least, we know that all villains want to inspire awe and fear in their followers-something best done by labelling something as 'magic' even if it is scientific.
In short, the so-called 'cult of Saxon' is nothing more than remnants from his political followers (or, if the commentary for 'Last of The Time Lords' are anything to go by, women The Master brainwashed); the method of The Master's resurrection is actually science misrepresented as magic. I mean, a lot of villains had been known to disguise science as magic just to show off or inspire fear in their own followers... Spoiler
Like Lord Blackwood, for those of you who have seen the latest Sherlock Holmes. In fact, in a round about way The Master's operation may even be based on his. Lord Blackwood had a political purpose/position which he exploits in a cult like manner ('cult of Saxon'). Lord Blackwood also uses a lot of science disguised as magic to hoodwink/impress ignorant people (The Master's method of resurrection can probably be created by chemicals in-universe).
So, in short, my view of that particular scene is that The Master disguises science as 'magic' to his own followers just to inspire fear and awe in them to ensure their loyalty. Call that fanwank if you like, but that's just my two cents.
NecronLord wrote:Stark, I'm not sure who 'Miss You Know Who' is meant to be?
Sorry. I mean the Pythia, the stupid crap about Karn and the Timelords being sterile and their mythic past of stupid crap. Lungbarrow was a cool book but it was fuck stupid and that whole lame backstory of the Timelords (even dumber than Peel's made-up nanomachine timeloop from the Gallifrey Chronicles 'sourcebook') would add some RTD flavour to the story.
You really don't need her to be the Pythia (they've shot the 'sterility' thing out of the water anyway in Sound of Drums). She could however be one of the sisters of Karn. That is canonically a protectorate of Gallifrey. It's perfectly logical that they'd be involved in the Time War, and they had weird mind powers. That would be a neat little call-back to the classic series, IMO.
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"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
I'm despoilering your post; this is a spoiler thread. The things that need to go in spoilers are previews of the next episode and such. Discussing part 1 is what this is for.
Crossroads Inc. wrote:
Yep for a good 45 seconds the Doctor, knowing that Master is turing the world population into clones of himself, just looks on with his thumbs up his ass. Way to good writers! And how exactly does that work?
Because if he'd done anything else, the Master would have reached out and zapped him with his magic powers?
Oh sure they handwave it saying it 'imprints' information and rewrites it.. But are you going to tell me that it can turn every last person into a white male about 5ft7 190lbs? How about the whole population of children or anyone 10years older or 10years younger then his body type? What happens ot someone weighing a good 300lbs? The body fat just walks away? Was there no one person on the writting stuff who took one look at this and said "WHOA! Wtf are you thinking there?" ??
Interestingly, apparently all those clothes did fit John Simm, even when they weren't meant to. He's apparently freaky like that. As for body fat, that's a bit odd, I'll give you that, but really, it's Doctor Who, what are you expecting?
As for how you get a Cult of Saxon, and a Book of Saxon, presumably he set them up in the year or so he had bumming around as Minister of Defence? The Master is an expert in indoctrination and hypnotism, and always has been.
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"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
Its weird that the Master sets up a cult of saxon? Seriously, if a paranoid schizophrenic off his meds could set up a cult where they believe in evil galactic rulers nuking aliens on earth and trapping their souls in common physical substance and these tortured souls are the cause of all our mental problems, then I am pretty sure a Time Lord with hypnotic powers, more intelligence and charisma could do so as well.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
I could've sworn I saw a fat guy with the Master's head in one of the background shots, may have been my imagination though.
On the other hand, Obama's suit looked a couple of sizes too big for the Master.
"No it's just Anacrap coming to whine and do nothing." -Mike Nelson on Anakin Skywalker
Gramzamber wrote:I could've sworn I saw a fat guy with the Master's head in one of the background shots, may have been my imagination though.
On the other hand, Obama's suit looked a couple of sizes too big for the Master.
Oh they don't fit right but they went on him. They were expecting that wouldn't be the case. There's bits where he's clapping in sleeves that cover his hands and whatnot, but there's no clothes he's ripped, or that just fall off him; which was apparently a surprise to the producers.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
Just WTF Was up with the beginning. Ok I knew the Master was going to come back, but doing it with 'magic' potions, cultists chants and some arcane ceremony? Wheres the tech? I expected Frankenstein sparks and machinery, lightning and cries of "Hes Alive, HES ALIVE!!" And WTF is up with his 'cult' How do you even GET a "cult of Saxon" ? Along with "The Word of Saxon" What are we Harry Potter or Dr.Who?
Surely you jest? You are watching Doctor Who and expecting rock-hard nerd-wank SF with big capital letters? Dream on. Half of all the tech in Who is indistinguishable from magic (oh dear where did we hear that one before) and there is precisely zero wrong with the Master using some strange Time Lord special brew to bring himself back to life*. And him having a cult is even less of a problem; remember that he had years to prepare for contingencies, so keeping a backup of himself and training some poor misguided idiots to restore it via rote memory 'rituals' is not exactly a stretch.
The Master has a thing for theatrics, is all. sure he COULD have left precise instructions to his followers on how to build a resurrection machine, but where's the PANACHE in that?
