EVE-Online Dominion, who wishes to play?

[Stark]

What? Why the fuck would you need a 'game key' for a credit-card based game? Are they afraid you'll pirate the game you can't play without paying them? I could give out copies of the EVE client on a street corner and they wouldn't give two shits because they're useless, utterly useless without an account.

There's a reason account verification is the only 'copy protection' that works, you know. I have never had a 'game key' for EVE, and a PLEX is not what you're talking about.

Man, non-MMO players are cute. I thought it was a big lol in the DA thread too...

[Lagmonster]

What? Why the fuck would you need a 'game key' for a credit-card based game? Are they afraid you'll pirate the game you can't play without paying them? I could give out copies of the EVE client on a street corner and they wouldn't give two shits because they're useless, utterly useless without an account.

Get a trial account and see the setup for yourself; clicking on account management makes them ask you for a 5$ activation fee before you can start paying them the monthly fee. They don't explain what it's for, and there's no option for 'just start paying the monthly fee'. It seems as though they just want five bucks. They could call it the 'game key' or the 'admin fee' or the 'crack and whores charge' and it wouldn't make a big difference to new players - it's just money they want so they can start charging you money. Hence why that $5 Steam deal, which appears to come with 30 days included sans any obstacles, seems like a freaking sweet deal as long as I don't have to re-start my character again.

[Stark]

How is it a key? It's just them charging you money for nothing. It's not a serial you have to enter or anything.

I was curious about boxed versions actually; I've seen them in shops and on 'sale' at other digital places too. You have to decide if starting again is worth the seven bucks you save; given the way the skill system works I'm not sure I'd bother. But I hate steam. I'm not sure how it would work to apply it to an existing account, though; the boxed versions probably do have a serial or some other material to identify them like game cards. Otherwise you could buy 9 copies on steam and break their subscription plan!

[Oskuro]

Man, non-MMO players are cute. I thought it was a big lol in the DA thread too...

What the fuck? What are you smoking? You are aware that you must buy a valid cd-key to play virtually any MMO out there, right? Try playing WoW without paying for the vanilla, BC and WOTLK key. Or WAR, or AOC, or CoX, or CO, or PotBS. They all ask for a valid key during registration.

Maybe there's some confusion when the price drops to the point that you are paying the same for the key+free month than for a single month, so it might seem like there's no key needed.

I agree it is strange that they keep selling keys, but I suspect it is a method of control, since your characters are bound to an specific key, they can ban that key thus making you lose everything, and forcing you to buy another one if you want to keep playing. Wich is what usually happens to idiots who pay for gold farming or power-levelling services.

[Bounty]

I'm back in for a month. Let's see if it holds my interest this time.

[Stark]

Man, non-MMO players are cute. I thought it was a big lol in the DA thread too...

What the fuck? What are you smoking? You are aware that you must buy a valid cd-key to play virtually any MMO out there, right? Try playing WoW without paying for the vanilla, BC and WOTLK key. Or WAR, or AOC, or CoX, or CO, or PotBS. They all ask for a valid key during registration.

Maybe there's some confusion when the price drops to the point that you are paying the same for the key+free month than for a single month, so it might seem like there's no key needed.

I agree it is strange that they keep selling keys, but I suspect it is a method of control, since your characters are bound to an specific key, they can ban that key thus making you lose everything, and forcing you to buy another one if you want to keep playing. Wich is what usually happens to idiots who pay for gold farming or power-levelling services.

are you seriously saying MMOs ban people by banning cd keys like Starcraft? What about that user account you log in with that exists on their servers? That might be relevant, hmmm? A key that represents some value (a PLEX, Microsoft points, collectors edition DLC etc) is not used as copy protection but simply to prevent the same value being redeemed over and over. Once it's attached to your login it's meaningless.

This is why serial keys don't work, and account-based verification does. This is why Titan Quest got the shit pirated out of it an WoW doesn't.

[Oskuro]

Err, Stark, I know what you are saying, but check this, the digital download is worth the same as the box, same for the expansions. And when they ban your account they are, in essence, banning the key. This means you need to buy a new box to make a new account, since they don't seem to ban the credit card itself (not that I know of at least). And this is not hearsay, some idiot friends of mine had to do it after their accounts were banned for using power-levelling services. Pretty common occurence from what I've been told.

So yeah, the key is meant to redeem the online value of the physical disc, and saying they charge for the key, or ban the key itself is just a way of referring to the fact you have to buy the game to create an account, just opening a subscription plan won't do (And WotLK is still 35€). Or in other words, it is just a manner of speaking.

[Stark]

You're stupid. That's like saying 'by banning the key, they are essentially banning the player'. The key (if any) is merely attached to the account; obviously banning the account makes the key useless. Thing is, the key was ALREADY USELESS. That's like saying banning my Live account bans my Microsoft Points card. Except I already redeemed it so it's meaningless outside the context of my account. And why the fuck would the ever want to ban a credit card outside of fraud? PS, buying time with a credit card every month is like 'buying a key' except you never get the key because why would they send it to you so you could send it back when they already have a better form of identification. It's a redundant step only used for box sales (and hte idea of buying EVE in a box is bizarre outside of sales).

[Oskuro]

And you are an idiot. I'm agreeing with you, dammit. I know it is not a cd-key, but since account activation asks for a product key, saying that a key is needed to play, or that it can be banned is still correct in this context, specially when you have to explain to an incompetent GAME store employee why selling second hand copies of MMOs is stupid.

In fact, it is more relevant when a single account manages several games, like a Cryptic account or a PlayNC account.


Regarding credit card banning, I guess that would be a more drastic way of getting rid of a troublesome player, since buying a new key circumvents the banning (yeah, all the stuff is lost, but the player can keep playing). Then again, stupid players getting banned and buying new keys to play and be banned yet again for the same idiotic behaviour is a revenue source I can't object to.

[Stark]

Even that's worthless, because getting a credit card (or especially debit card) is trivial. I could more readily 'change' my credit card details than I could my ip range.

[wautd]

I'm going to try this wormhole exploration sites today. Are those battleship-sized sleepers doable solo? Is there a way to more or less predict when a wormhole collapses again (I don't want to get stranded with me raven navy issue).

[PREDATOR490]

Right-Click Show info.

The WH description changes to reflect the status of the WH. If it says its at 'verge of collapse' then you have less than 5% of mass left, if its at 'reduced' but not critical then its at less than 45%. If it says its 'reaching the end of its natural lifecycle' the WH has less than 4 hours worth of time left. The wormhole will visually wobble badly if its been hit hard.
Additionally, the description and name of the WH will give you an idea of where it goes and what can go through it.

'unknown space' - Class 1 - 3
Dangerous Unknown space - 4 - 5
Deadly Unknown - Class 6

As for wormhole mass calculations and limitations: LINK

Class 1 - Cant take battleships but can be done solo in elite cruisers, or respectable battlecruisers. Various sleepers use webs, nos as standard.
Class 2 - Can take battleships and can be done solo by better battlecruisers or battleships.
Class 3 - These CAN be done solo but it is not recommended because now Sleepers use Scrams
Class 4 -Cannot be done solo, approximately 4 RR battleships required, more sleepers use scrams
Class 5 & 6 - No chance of being done solo, This is where caps are allowed to come into play and the sleepers have DPS to match capitals, all sleepers use scrams

Additionally, W-space has spatial effects on things inside it. Sometimes they can be good, sometimes they can be bad so if you go into a WH look up the locus signature and see what it does. The greater the class of W-space the greater these kind of effects hit you, so a C1 might boost your shields by 10% and lower your armor resists by -10% but the C6 will boost by 90% and nuke your armor resists by -90%.
Sleepers, always focus fire on single targets and they use the closest thing to an 'aggro' mechanic you might expect from things like Anarchy Online. They web, scram, neut, nos and do full Omni damage so you have to get ALL your resists up and relatively equal. They have sick resists on their armor but none on their hull and they can target, fire and fly at speeds far greater than most of their player ship equivelents. The one saving grace for now is that Sleepers are highly vulnerable to ECM and ALL ECM racials work equally as effective so ECM is the great force multiplier if you dont have the firepower or tank to kill them quickly.

Other than the sleepers themselves, you will have to deal with other players. Its going to take you time to run through a site and in that time if you take your eyes of scanners then a group of pirates can come in, scan you down and jump you. Thus only taking a ship you can afford to lose is strongly recommended, and with random people entering and leaving W-space that means the WH could collapse while your running sites so a probe launcher is mandatory if you want to get yourself out.
I really wouldnt recommend the CNR for soloing. Command Ship or Drakes are quite common for C1 - C3 solo running and wont cost as much to lose.

[wautd]

Thanks, that should prove helpful. I also noticed that people don't show up in local channel. This may prove... interesting.

[charlemagne]

And you are an idiot. I'm agreeing with you, dammit. I know it is not a cd-key, but since account activation asks for a product key, saying that a key is needed to play, or that it can be banned is still correct in this context, specially when you have to explain to an incompetent GAME store employee why selling second hand copies of MMOs is stupid.

Every MMO I've played/tried - LotrO, WAR, AOC - did need a product key to fully activate the account. There's also keys for "limited" (in MMO-speak, meaning "will be thrown at every player in 6 months anyways") items. But normally, the account site tracks which stuff you can play through key usage. There's keys proving you bought the expansions and such, and to even start playing you need to enter one. I guess this is because people are stupid and still want boxes to put on shelves. If every MMO just sold their stuff through their website you wouldn't need them - to prove my point: the last Lotro expansion "Siege of Mirkwood" isn't available boxed, but only through online payment directly in your account login area, and there's no product keys involved. You buy it and it's automatically "activated" for your account.

But the good thing about boxed MMOs is that it leads to those ridiculous examples of them being on sale so you can pick up a new account plus 1 month free play time for less than 1 monthly charge. I know I've seen vanilla WoW, AoC and Lotro for less than 10,- € for example.

[Resinence]

Thanks, that should prove helpful. I also noticed that people don't show up in local channel. This may prove... interesting.

Local isn't as useful as it once was, if you don't know you'd better learn how the directional scanner works quicksmart.

[wautd]

Thanks, that should prove helpful. I also noticed that people don't show up in local channel. This may prove... interesting.

Local isn't as useful as it once was, if you don't know you'd better learn how the directional scanner works quicksmart.

Explain?

[Resinence]

Well in W-Space you can't use local to gather intel anymore, but you can use the directional scanner to see whats around you within 14AU. I usually set it to 3 AU and watch it, if they get that close chances are they are decelerating from warp on top of you in about 10 seconds.

[wautd]

Ah, I thought you were talking about normal space as well

[Oskuro]

But the good thing about boxed MMOs is that it leads to those ridiculous examples of them being on sale so you can pick up a new account plus 1 month free play time for less than 1 monthly charge. I know I've seen vanilla WoW, AoC and Lotro for less than 10,- € for example.

Precisely what I did with Age of Conan and Warhammer Online. Still haven't tried them, though, but I'm having enough fun as it is by waving the box around the people that paid full price.

[Stark]

So you think you're clever for getting something cheap that YOU NEVER USED? You don't see what's wrong with that?

And Age of Conan is so broken I won't play it when they keep offering me free weeks.

[Oskuro]

More lucky than clever, and upcoming exams prevent me from actually using them. And being mean to others is so much fun, I mean, look at you

I'm trying Age of Conan just because I want to run around as a topless barbarian. That's pretty much it.

[Gramzamber]

Ah EVE, I like it but it has to be the most unfriendly game to newcomers ever.
Can't go aroun doing anything in low sec because some pirate will shank me, no established corp wants me and every newish corp I've tried to be a part of has been ground into a fine paste by the big guys.
Best I can do for some actual action without getting my garbage scows blasted into next week is tagging along pickup fleets in the militia and pray real hard no actual organised "professional" fleet comes upon us.

Yes yes, "maybe you just suck". Maybe I do, but EVE is rather unforgiving all the same.

[Stark]

Try thinking about what you're doing. Lowsec is in many ways the most dangerous place and there's nothing for a noob to do there. If you're a noob trying to solo lowsec mine or plex you're an idiot. If you're carebearing it up avoid lowsec agents, if you're out for pvp there are generally better places, etc. If you're frustrated with FW head to 0.0 and fight for real.

The game isn't that hard to get unto now; it's unfriendly to idiots. If you're doing something over and over and the same thing keeps happening, maybe your plan sucks.

I find many established corps like to pickup noobs but you might need to poke on the forums to fne out.

[Oskuro]

Ah EVE, I like it but it has to be the most unfriendly game to newcomers ever.

Ah, is it time to post this little gem again?



I personally can't get tired of it.

But then again, even as a total noob to EvE, what Stark says. Most of the time the greatest diffculty when learning a complex game is that we're too used to extremely user friendly games that ease you into everything. And there is no way to ease people into player-to-player interactions anyway. My personal hardest MMO learning experience was with Everquest 1, since the game assumed you knew a lot about the MUD-style interface already (and it sucked).

EvE has massive tutorials that explain pretty much everything you need. I'd guess most of the people wailing about it being hard just skipped them and then got lost not knowing how to do anything. I mean, you get that kind of people in simpler games, like linear point-and-click-to-kill FPSeses with tutorials so condescending they should have a "for Dummies" sticker on them.

[Gramzamber]

Me, I went into lowsec to hang around once because I became rather bored of doing highsec missions for money over an over and immediately got my ass handed to me by the first jolly roger waving twit that sniffed me out. Didn't use my good ship or anything.
My point is that you can play EVE and be perfectly fine but if you want to move on to more interesting stuff rather than repeating the same action to earn handfuls of cash you either need a hell of a lot of powerful friends or a lot of luck. I suppose if I really, really tried I could join a big corp but generally they seem disinterested. I also like the idea of being part of a new corp being built from the ground up. Alas perhaps the ambitions of my leaders outweigh their ability because they always seem to piss off the big guys very quickly. Or the big corps just like crushing dreams beneath their heel.