Attempted Airline Bombing

[Broomstick]

Thanks for changing the title - at the time I first heard of this I thought it was just an ignorant jackass but I guess it was more serious than that. Clearly, if this had succeeded, it would have really shit on everyone's Christmas, have to wonder if that's why the date was chosen.

Exploding/burning pants? Huh. Wonder if he managed to singe off his genitals. Not much that's more pathetic than a self-castrated would-be suicide bomber.

Anyhow, I'm not sure how they're going to prevent dangerous undershorts in the future. Maybe we'll actually wind up having to board airliners empty handed and naked after all.

[Broomstick]

I really am amazed we've had such bloody morons for enemies. Well, i guess it helps if you have a 7th century education for most of your leaders and footsoldiers.

Actually, Shep, most recently released information indicates the would-be bomber was college educated in the UK. So that "7th Century education" theory of yours doesn't hold water.

[MKSheppard]

Then why was he so fucking stupid? I'm not college educated by any stretch, yet I can think of a billion other schemes more likely to cause chaos than this.

[Broomstick]

It doesn't require intelligence - or more accurately, sense - to get into college.

[Sea Skimmer]

Terrorism like warfare is a law of averages, one college grad is rather irrelevant unless he was a lone wolf and got a degree in chemistry (which would mean little anyway since this bomb was clearly made of flawed material). Some of the 9/11 attackers had college degrees too, yet they clearly didn’t learn enough to know that suicide attacks as strategy don’t work. Its far more likely this kid mostly learned to hate the west for being wealthy, and then had some idiots in Nigeria fill his head with nonsense and gave him a crappy bomb.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The Dutch have said he switched planes in Amsterdam; I don’t think any Nigerian airline, nor more then a handful in Africa in total, are allowed to fly direct to the US. Airports don’t rescreen people changing flights who stay inside the terminal, but that may end up being change now for certain carriers.

The international flights I have taken often require rescreening when transferring between flight. A number of airports I have been to have within the Departure hall, one layer of security between the duty free shopping area and the departure areas.

[FSTargetDrone]

I feel... slightly uncomfortable in mentioning it (though I suppose it's silly to concern myself that people such as this would be reading this), but the first thought I had after reading about this guy was, "why did he do it while in his seat?" It surely cannot take much imagination to think of another place onboard the aircraft where he or any other terrorist might attempt such a thing. It stands to reason that from this point on the rest of the passengers on any other flight, fearing they have little to lose in a situation at this, would stop at nothing to attack and interrupt the would-be bomber as soon as they see what is happening. The Dutch fellow who apparently attacked him clearly didn't waste a lot of time thinking about it.

Dutchman is 'hero' in terrorist plane drama

Saturday 26 December 2009

A 32-year-old businessman from Amsterdam was described as a ‘hero’ in various media reports on Saturday for his role in over-powering an alleged terrorist who tried to blow up a Northwest Airline jet as it landed at Detroit airport in the US on Christmas Day.

The reports say Jasper Schuringa, one of the passengers on flight from Amsterdam to Detroit, did not hesitate for a minute when he saw a Nigerian man stand up suddenly and cause an explosion which started a fire.

According to the Telegraaf website, Schuringa climbed over frightened passengers to reach the Nigerian and ‘dived’ onto him ‘in a sort of blind fury’.

Schuringa held the man in a head lock until the plane landed and police arrived, says the Telegraaf. He is believed to have burnt his hand while tackling the terrorist suspect who apparently had an explosive device strapped to his leg.

Jasper Schuringa’s parents, Bob en Ingrid Schuringa, told the Telegraaf: ‘He said that he had climbed over the seats at top speed when he saw what the guy was doing. Then he hit him, dragged him to the front of the plane and returned to put out the flames. We are extremely proud of him but also really shocked because in one second it could have ended up very differently’.

Jasper Schuringa, who has a video production company, is not expected to return to the Netherlands until January 8. According to the Telegraaf, he is spending a few days with a friend in Miami before going on to Costa Rica.

'A lot of screaming'

Various eye witness reports of what happened on the flight have been published on the American and Dutch media.

‘I heard a lot of screaming, turned round and saw some 15 meters away a flame at least a meter high. People were standing and the crew rushed to the spot,’ passenger Theo Siep is quoted as saying on the Nos website. He said that people were trying to put out the fire with bottles of water.

[Broomstick]

Terrorism like warfare is a law of averages, one college grad is rather irrelevant unless he was a lone wolf and got a degree in chemistry (which would mean little anyway since this bomb was clearly made of flawed material). Some of the 9/11 attackers had college degrees too, yet they clearly didn’t learn enough to know that suicide attacks as strategy don’t work.

I'd say the 9/11 attacks worked quite well, thank you very much. They still haven't rebuilt those 16 acres in Manhattan and all those thousands of people are still dead. Add in the Madrid, UK, Bali, India, and other suicide attacks that have left dead and maimed in their wake... Even if from a viewpoint of "merely won the battle, not the war", clearly some suicide attacks are successful at some level.

Folks need to get past the idea that education eliminates this sort of radical thought and action. This isn't as simple as poor brown people vs. rich white people.

Its far more likely this kid mostly learned to hate the west for being wealthy, and then had some idiots in Nigeria fill his head with nonsense and gave him a crappy bomb.

If he actually is the son of the UK director of the bank of Nigeria. I strongly suspect he was, in many ways, part of the "wealthy west" himself.

I feel... slightly uncomfortable in mentioning it (though I suppose it's silly to concern myself that people such as this would be reading this), but the first thought I had after reading about this guy was, "why did he do it while in his seat?" It surely cannot take much imagination to think of another place onboard the aircraft where he or any other terrorist might attempt such a thing.

Thinking about this, it strikes me that someone who actually was from a violence-torn area such that he had truly experienced it would know better. The shoebomber, this guy... they seem a tad clueless in a way.

It stands to reason that from this point on the rest of the passengers on any other flight, fearing they have little to lose in a situation at this, would stop at nothing to attack and interrupt the would-be bomber as soon as they see what is happening.

True. Since 9/11 being a hijacker/in-flight terrorist has become extremely hazardous. Passengers have been ruthless in subduing these sorts.

[FSTargetDrone]

Thinking about this, it strikes me that someone who actually was from a violence-torn area such that he had truly experienced it would know better. The shoebomber, this guy... they seem a tad clueless in a way.

It's almost unbelievably half-assed, this attempt. Of course, that's good for everyone else. I'd much prefer to see dummies doing this than people who are more careful in the attempt.

[Sea Skimmer]

I'd say the 9/11 attacks worked quite well, thank you very much. They still haven't rebuilt those 16 acres in Manhattan and all those thousands of people are still dead. Add in the Madrid, UK, Bali, India, and other suicide attacks that have left dead and maimed in their wake...

Bin Ladens objective was to get the US the fuck out of the Mid East so he and his buddies could then take over Saudi arabia, not just kill people. Its not like he made a secret of any of this. The actual result? The US presence increases ten fold, two Muslim countries are blasted apart in the process, Al Qaeda ceases to exist as anything but a banner and far from driving off the US, its now impossible for the US to leave on any terms.

Even if from a viewpoint of "merely won the battle, not the war", clearly some suicide attacks are successful at some level.

Irrelevant. Why the hell do you think I used the word strategy? As a strategy they fail Al Qaeda just like they failed the Tamale Tigers, failed Japan and failed quite a few other groups. The fact is when you are in a situation when suicide attacks become the only strategy you have, you already lost and are just too fucking dumb to know it.

[Broomstick]

No, I don't find the deaths of thousands of people "irrelevant". Suicide attacks are quite effective at frightening people, killing people, and causing damage. Will that win a war? No. But from the standpoint of hurting the enemy they do have a use.

[Lord of the Abyss]

The actual result? The US presence increases ten fold, two Muslim countries are blasted apart in the process, Al Qaeda ceases to exist as anything but a banner and far from driving off the US, its now impossible for the US to leave on any terms.

And America has left Saudi Arabia, has taken major self inflicted damage on multiple fronts, an enemy of Al Qaeda - Saddam - is dead, secularism in Iraq is gone, democracy in the region is discredited as being nothing more than a code word for "mass murder by Americans", Al Qaeda remains active and decentralized. All in all, a massive victory for Al Qaeda.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

No, I don't find the deaths of thousands of people "irrelevant". Suicide attacks are quite effective at frightening people, killing people, and causing damage. Will that win a war? No. But from the standpoint of hurting the enemy they do have a use.

Actually no. Terror attacks have a habit of hardening a population's resolve and achieving the opposite of terror. Read: Battle of Britain.

[Simon_Jester]

Folks need to get past the idea that education eliminates this sort of radical thought and action. This isn't as simple as poor brown people vs. rich white people.

Nor is it as simple as "stupid people versus smart people," another popular illusion. Smart people exist in some very strange places, and they grow up with a very different attitude toward their problems than a smart person growing up here would. The fact that you or I, who call ourselves smart, cannot immediately understand what a person was thinking when they did something does not automatically guarantee that they are stupid, or even that they are "ignorant" in the sense most people use the term.

Bin Ladens objective was to get the US the fuck out of the Mid East so he and his buddies could then take over Saudi arabia, not just kill people. Its not like he made a secret of any of this. The actual result? The US presence increases ten fold, two Muslim countries are blasted apart in the process, Al Qaeda ceases to exist as anything but a banner and far from driving off the US, its now impossible for the US to leave on any terms.

Part of the problem is that Al Qaeda and bin Laden have very amorphous objectives- or rather, their ultimate grand-strategic objectives are so remote that there are many roads pointing in that direction. For instance, they benefit from driving us out of a country, because it makes fundamentalist Islam look strong... but they can also benefit from drawing us into a country and casting us as the heavies of the piece, because that makes people turn towards fundamentalist Islam and its certainties in rebellion against hostile outsiders. More depends on whether they can exploit opportunities and whether we're dumb enough to create opportunities for them than on what specific result comes from a given action.

So they can do something in hopes of causing a specific outcome and fail miserably... but if they get the benefit of serendipity and their action causes something completely different, it can still further "the cause" in the most general sense. While the specific organization bin Laden had in 2000 is pretty much a wreck at this point, and the US is semi-permanently engaged in the Middle East, that doesn't mean we're beating the ideology that Al Qaeda was created to drive forward.

[Broomstick]

No, I don't find the deaths of thousands of people "irrelevant". Suicide attacks are quite effective at frightening people, killing people, and causing damage. Will that win a war? No. But from the standpoint of hurting the enemy they do have a use.

Actually no. Terror attacks have a habit of hardening a population's resolve and achieving the opposite of terror. Read: Battle of Britain.

True. However, quite a few people died in the Battle of Britain as well. As I said, terror may not win a war but it most certainly does have an effect and it does hurt the enemy. It's not a useless tactic.

Again, it's not as simple as it appears. Characterizing the enemy as different, poor, stupid, or anything else is foolish. These are people who are not afraid to die for their cause, regardless of their personal motivation, and that makes them very dangerous. They are a mix of nationalities, intelligence, experience, and education... in others not very different from us in many ways which enables them to blend in to a high degree which makes single-agent suicide missions that much easier for them to attempt.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Then why was he so fucking stupid? I'm not college educated by any stretch, yet I can think of a billion other schemes more likely to cause chaos than this.

I saw it pointed out on another forum that it appears to be causing at least one kind of negative consequence. New restrictions on passengers in flight.

The government was vague about the steps it was taking, saying that it wanted the security experience to be “unpredictable” and that passengers would not find the same measures at every airport — a prospect that may upset airlines and travelers alike.

But several airlines released detailed information about the restrictions, saying that passengers on international flights coming to the United States will apparently have to remain in their seats for the last hour of a flight without any personal items on their laps. It was not clear how often the rule would affect domestic flights.

So, no way to know for sure what you'll go though, and you won't be able to, say, pass the time by reading for a whole hour. So this attempted attack will inflict widespread if mild discomfort & anger, and probably hurt the country economically due to fewer people being willing to fly at all. All for the sacrifice of one expendable idiot; a bargain from Al Qaeda's viewpoint.

No, I don't find the deaths of thousands of people "irrelevant". Suicide attacks are quite effective at frightening people, killing people, and causing damage. Will that win a war? No. But from the standpoint of hurting the enemy they do have a use.

Actually no. Terror attacks have a habit of hardening a population's resolve and achieving the opposite of terror. Read: Battle of Britain.

True. However, quite a few people died in the Battle of Britain as well. As I said, terror may not win a war but it most certainly does have an effect and it does hurt the enemy.

Yes. "Hurting the enemy" doesn't just mean damaging them militarily, especially when you are too weak to actually do much in that direction. Hurting the enemy can also be just that; hurting them. Killing them as a goal in itself; making them pay in blood for their real or imagined sins.

[FSTargetDrone]

Another Nigerian suspect was taken from a plane today:

Déjà Vu: Nigerian Man Arrested Sunday On Northwest Flight From Amsterdam

DETROIT (December 27, 2009)—The crew of a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Detroit requested emergency help Sunday after a Nigerian man locked himself in a bathroom aboard the plane for as long as an hour and then became upset when crewmembers told him to come out.

It was the same flight number as the plane aboard which another Nigerian man attempted on Christmas Day to ignite an incendiary device, which officials say had enough explosive potential to have blown up the plane.

The Nigerian man involved in Sunday’s incident was taken into custody.

The plane landed without incident, but was immediately surrounded by emergency vehicles and law enforcement personnel.

A Delta spokeswoman says all 256 passengers were safely taken off the plane using a portable jetway.

Delta operates the Northwest flight.

The incident happened just a day after charges were filed against Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, who’s accused of trying to blow up the Detroit-bound flight on Christmas Day.

Abdulmutallab claims to have received training and instructions from al-Qaeda operatives in Yemen. Investigators are working to verify those claims.

U.S. officials say that his father expressed concerns about his son to the American embassy in Nigeria, and the Abdulmutallab's name had been added to a government list of people with terrorist ties in November.

Court papers show that a preliminary analysis of the device the he used indicates it contained the same high explosive convicted shoe bomber Richard Reid used in 2001.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I suggest that if you want to fly internationally you should just travel into Canada by road or rail and fly from Canada. Both patronizing our friendly northern neighbours and sending a message to the TSA that making the security experience "unpredictable" is both pointless and a direct financial disincentive toward patronizing American products.

[MKSheppard]

All for the sacrifice of one expendable idiot; a bargain from Al Qaeda's viewpoint.

Yet it doesn't achieve their fucking aim, destroying the great satan; and it's tipped us off to yet another tactic; explosive underwear -- imagine if it had succeeded - we'd have never known what caused the flight to go down somewhere over the atlantic.

[Broomstick]

They didn't want the flight to go down over the Atlantic, they wanted it to go down over the US land, hence the jackass didn't light his nuts up until just an hour before landing. They didn't want the plane to go down at sea and be a mystery, they wanted the wreckage found so the US would know it was a bomb and a terrorist attack.

[Atlan]

Another Nigerian suspect was taken from a plane today:

Déjà Vu: Nigerian Man Arrested Sunday On Northwest Flight From Amsterdam

DETROIT (December 27, 2009)—The crew of a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Detroit requested emergency help Sunday after a Nigerian man locked himself in a bathroom aboard the plane for as long as an hour and then became upset when crewmembers told him to come out.

It was the same flight number as the plane aboard which another Nigerian man attempted on Christmas Day to ignite an incendiary device, which officials say had enough explosive potential to have blown up the plane.

The Nigerian man involved in Sunday’s incident was taken into custody.

The plane landed without incident, but was immediately surrounded by emergency vehicles and law enforcement personnel.

A Delta spokeswoman says all 256 passengers were safely taken off the plane using a portable jetway.

Delta operates the Northwest flight.

The incident happened just a day after charges were filed against Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, who’s accused of trying to blow up the Detroit-bound flight on Christmas Day.

Abdulmutallab claims to have received training and instructions from al-Qaeda operatives in Yemen. Investigators are working to verify those claims.

U.S. officials say that his father expressed concerns about his son to the American embassy in Nigeria, and the Abdulmutallab's name had been added to a government list of people with terrorist ties in November.

Court papers show that a preliminary analysis of the device the he used indicates it contained the same high explosive convicted shoe bomber Richard Reid used in 2001.

Haven't found it online yet, but radio news in the Netherlands just reported that the new guy had locked himself up in a toilet for over an hour. Someone reported it, and cabin crew responded by forcefully telling the guy to come out, at which time he also responded tersely. Cue the perfect storm. Unfortunately he'd just locked himself in the toilet because he'd become quite sick with food poisening, not because he's another terrorist....

[MKSheppard]

Food poisoning my ass.

[Siege]

Food poisoning my ass.

Well, believe it or not but according to the newswires here it is what the national anti-terror coordination unit (NCTb) is saying at this time, and the FBI seems to back them up. That's all from Dutch sources; a quick search turns up this however, which seems to corroborate the story.

EDIT: according to Homeland Security press secretary Sara Kuban:

“A passenger on today’s Northwest flight 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit spent an unusually long time in the aircraft lavatory,” she said in the statement. “Due to this unusual behavior, the airline notified T.S.A. and the agency directed the flight to taxi to a remote area upon landing to be met by law enforcement and D.H.S.

“The passenger in question, a Nigerian national, was removed from the flight and interviewed by the F.B.I.; indications at this time are that the individual’s behavior is due to legitimate illness, and no other suspicious behavior or materials have been found. Though this does not appear at this time to be a security incident, in an abundance of caution, the aircraft was fully screened, with negative results, and all baggage is being rescreened before the aircraft taxis to the gate.”

source

[Broomstick]

In other words, the poor man picked a bad weekend and a bad flight on which to have an epic level of the shits.

[Atlan]

In other words, the poor man picked a bad weekend and a bad flight on which to have an epic level of the shits.

Yup. Poor guy. Not only gets the shits, but also gets wrung out by the FBI. I really can't imagine a more unfortunate time for him to get food poisening...