Avatar review thread

[Manus Celer Dei]

Replace the VTOL gunships with helicopters, and the mechs with Humvees, and nothing in the movie would've changed!

The final showdown would've been somewhat less impressive though; instead of an oversized knifefight it'd just be a pair of aliens beating up a car.

Actually, come to think of it, wouldn't the gunner on a humvee have somewhat less protection than the pilot/gunner of one of the Avatar mechs?

[Shroom Man 777]

He could always duck down, or they could use a remote control gun system, and he won't have to navigate the vehicle by himself since there's a driver and the vehicle can also be used to carry passengers.

Won't save it from being eaten by an elephant though.

EDIT:

Geeze, what's the point about saying xyz future tech sucks, xyz present/past tech would be better, force sub rar? Mang!

[AniThyng]

Yeah, most humvees in real combat zones have what, a metal gunshield at most? I suppose they could all have things like the TUSK system.

Actually, isn't there a US Army designed bulletproof glass shield being used in place of metal gunshields so that the gunner has better sight...

Ah..here we go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparen ... Gun_Shield

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:06020 ... 3A-008.jpg

You know, an M1 would probably ruin a couple of dinosaurs day, but the infantry accompanying it would still be fucked, no way that 120mm gun has a rof that can stop that stampede in time.

[Shroom Man 777]

You have a point! The fucking mech was able to jump off an exploding bigass killship, fall down one hundred thousand million miles, and land on its feet and go on kicking ass and killfucking xenopanthers while its driver was on fire! How's that for a bullshit crappy piece of hardware that should be replaced by a 1950s-era Willis Jeep with some dumbass tacked on graph or chart showing how Robert Space McNamara sucks the holy virgin St. LeMay's cock?

[Serafina]

And i am not even sure an modern tank would withstand that stampede.
How much to these animals weight?

A modern tank weights about 40 tons.
A Hammerhead beast is propably twice the volmume of an african elephant, possibly with denser bone structure (implied for the navi, it is stated to have very thick bones).
That can easily give them weights of 15 or more tons.
Accelerate that to a good speed, add the dense headbone - looks dangerous to me.

[Shroom Man 777]

The tank is denser by far, though, so the animal will just end up breaking its skull. But if it sits on top of an M1, it's still going to fuck the tank up since I doubt the tank is designed to bear another 10 tons on its suspension system. Even if it was, those animuls can just break all those periscopes and sighting equipment, leaving the crew blind. Or the animals could climb on top of the Abrams and take a monumental shit on top of them. The metric shitloads of animal feces will be enough to obscure the tank's sensors, thus blinding it and mission-killing it. Even if the crew tries to open their hatch to go up and clean the mess, the shit's still going to fall down inside their crew compartment, and that's going to make a mess of things.

[PeZook]

It was stated by Norm who in case you didn't notice had trained extensively for his mission. I'm fairly certain he's got a pretty good handle on Na'vi culture. Nevermind the fact that when the tree was threatened what did they do? Protect the damn tree. I mean are you seriously suggesting we take your word on how things would work over what someone who in the movie has studied Na'vi culture and was in fact giving Jack fucking lessons on how to behave?

If anyone is an authority on how the Na'Vi would fight their war and what it would take to win one, it's Jack, but he just barely got initated as a warrior!

The truth is, while the scientists knew something of the power structure and customs of the Na'Vi, they didn't know shit how they handled war. They might've been right that destroying the tree would mean the end of their distinct culture, and perhaps fragmentation of the clan, but what do you think all those warriors would do if they were left alive and given time? Quaritch's idea was that they'd "never come within a hundred clicks from us". I'm just not sure this would work as advertised, if for no other reason than because there's so many clans, and not everyone would worship the same tree.

Doesnt' work? Excuse me but the Na'vi are very much aweable. Or did you miss how they looked after Quaritch leveled Hometree? Before that they were all gung-ho and ready to fight, afterwards all they could do was limp to the tree of souls and pray for help.

Well, duh. Their main settlement just got wiped out with contemptous ease ; Of course they'd be demoralized! But that's a bit like showing a photo of Jessica Lynch being held hostage and declaring the US Army in Iraq defeated ; Other cultures in Earth's history recovered just fine from their paradigm-crushing experiences at the hands of invaders and continued to be a problem for centuries afterwards.

And again, the tree was the primary target, the army was a secondary one, hence why the majority of air assets were dedicated to the protection of the shuttle and not to smashing the army on the ground.

Yeah, that much was obvious. I'm just disputing Quaritch's choice of targets. He really needed to take care of Sully's army first, then bother with cultural shock and awe.

Say it with me again. The Na'vi are not humans, and their faith is perfectly rational given that they believe in something that can be proven to exist.

The fact they believe Eywa exists is rational, the rituals, chants and "Eywa will provide" ain't. Hell, they recognize themselves she doesn't take sides, yet expect her to protect them when they come praying?

As for the Na'Vi not being human, they sure act like humans all the time the RDA isn't shooting at them. Similarly enough that Jack can relate and fall in love with one of them. They're no more different than one human culture from another.

Because Quaritch takes advantage of the scientists video logs to know his enemy better. In fact IIRC learning how they think was one of the things he asked Jake to do.

He actually asked what it would take them to move.

[SylasGaunt]

It was stated by Norm who in case you didn't notice had trained extensively for his mission. I'm fairly certain he's got a pretty good handle on Na'vi culture. Nevermind the fact that when the tree was threatened what did they do? Protect the damn tree. I mean are you seriously suggesting we take your word on how things would work over what someone who in the movie has studied Na'vi culture and was in fact giving Jack fucking lessons on how to behave?

If anyone is an authority on how the Na'Vi would fight their war and what it would take to win one, it's Jack, but he just barely got initated as a warrior!

Jake has gotten himself initiated into the tribe but he's not an expert who's been studying them for years. Norm is. Jake's been living with them for a coupel of months true but he's not just getting his education from them, remember we see Norm teaching him in his downtime. In fact nowhere do we see Jake getting any kind of training in Na'vi battle tactics that aren't related to hunting things.

The truth is, while the scientists knew something of the power structure and customs of the Na'Vi, they didn't know shit how they handled war. They might've been right that destroying the tree would mean the end of their distinct culture, and perhaps fragmentation of the clan, but what do you think all those warriors would do if they were left alive and given time? Quaritch's idea was that they'd "never come within a hundred clicks from us". I'm just not sure this would work as advertised, if for no other reason than because there's so many clans, and not everyone would worship the same tree.

The trees are linked together. A blow against one is going to be a blow (albeit somewhat reduced) against them all, and that's assuming there's more than one Tree of Souls. We certainly never hear about another. And even then it proves to the other tribes (who aren't currently directly threatened) that the sky people have the capability to wreak destruction the likes of which they've never seen before. It's certainly going to make the tribes like the horse tribes who have zero means of combating gunships wary about getting adventurous.

Well, duh. Their main settlement just got wiped out with contemptous ease ; Of course they'd be demoralized! But that's a bit like showing a photo of Jessica Lynch being held hostage and declaring the US Army in Iraq defeated ; Other cultures in Earth's history recovered just fine from their paradigm-crushing experiences at the hands of invaders and continued to be a problem for centuries afterwards.

Different thing entirely. Jessica Lynch was not nearly as important to the american people as that tree is to the na'vi.

Yeah, that much was obvious. I'm just disputing Quaritch's choice of targets. He really needed to take care of Sully's army first, then bother with cultural shock and awe.

He really got a two-fer. Attacking the tree (which the Na'vi cannot afford to lose) forces Sully's army to face him before he can gather the numbers he needs to overwhelm Quaritch's forces which let him slaughter them right up until Eywa intervened.

The fact they believe Eywa exists is rational, the rituals, chants and "Eywa will provide" ain't. Hell, they recognize themselves she doesn't take sides, yet expect her to protect them when they come praying?

Except Eywa does provide going by the supplementary material. Pretty much everything on Pandora is balanced and stays that way. The Na'vi don't have to deal with starvation, or anything to that effect because the moon's neural network keeps the ecosystem balanced out.

As for the Na'Vi not being human, they sure act like humans all the time the RDA isn't shooting at them. Similarly enough that Jack can relate and fall in love with one of them. They're no more different than one human culture from another.

You're making the mistake of assuming that because they're similar to humans in some respects they are similar to them in all respects.

He actually asked what it would take them to move.

I'd have to go see the movie again or find a clip of that scene to better dispute that. But it doesn't change the fact that we know Quaritch uses the science logs to better learn how to killfuck the natives.

[Serafina]

Jake lived FAR closer to the Na'vi. He had insights into their culture no one else had. No matter how much Norm studied his books, he could not learn something from them which was not already in there.

Furthermore, i am pretty sure that no one knew about Na'vi warrior culture and their behaviour in such a situation. It is quite possible that he understood it better than Norm, given that he already had experience with war (he was a veteran) and lived under them better (he was teached by the chiefs daugher after all).

AT least, we have two candidates for an analysis:
-Someone who knew a lot about the Na'vi by talking to them, but has no experience with military situations (Grace)
-Someone who had limited experience from living with them, but perhaps got knowledge Grace did not - but has experience with military situations (Jake)

I would take the military expert here.

[SylasGaunt]

Blah, next thing you know when the Illustrated Visual Dictionary is published, people will be going on about how the RDA was so stupid to issue 5.56mm ammunition to its troopers when clearly 6mm Grendeloid bullets have superior ballistic performances or something.

The CARB system used by the RDA is 6.2mm actually.

[Sky Captain]

What I don`t get is the whole life on Earth sucks, human civilization is nearly falling apart and Pandora needed to save the humans thing. I mean humans have come to a point when interstellar flight has become somewhat routine and started large scale colonization of Moon and Mars and yet they still somehow has energy and resource crisis at home. The simple fact that humans have those 0.7c torchships means they have access to wealth of solar system`s resources and ginormous amounts of ultra cheap energy likely from truly MASSIVE space based solar installations and/or gigantic fusion reactors providing far more power than Earth could possibly consume even with population on dozens of billions. The age of fossil fuels must be a distant past.

A civilization that`s on the verge of falling apart can`t afford running extrasolar mining operation. It might be true that ecosystem has collapsed lot`s of species gone extinct and such, but then again at this stage humans don`t need ecosystem to survive, sure it`s nice to have a healthy environment, but it`s not strictly required to live on.

[Serafina]

What I don`t get is the whole life on Earth sucks, human civilization is nearly falling apart and Pandora needed to save the humans thing. I mean humans have come to a point when interstellar flight has become somewhat routine and started large scale colonization of Moon and Mars and yet they still somehow has energy and resource crisis at home. The simple fact that humans have those 0.7c torchships means they have access to wealth of solar system`s resources and ginormous amounts of ultra cheap energy likely from truly MASSIVE space based solar installations and/or gigantic fusion reactors providing far more power than Earth could possibly consume even with population on dozens of billions. The age of fossil fuels must be a distant past.

A civilization that`s on the verge of falling apart can`t afford running extrasolar mining operation. It might be true that ecosystem has collapsed lot`s of species gone extinct and such, but then again at this stage humans don`t need ecosystem to survive, sure it`s nice to have a healthy environment, but it`s not strictly required to live on.

That's not stated anywhere in the movie.

All we get about it is:
-Jakes brother is murdered. No big deal, it happens today.
-The statement of Jake that we "murdered or mother". Means next to nothing, too - after all, the worst thing it can mean is that we destroyed or ecosphere - and yet humans still exist, so we just do not need it. Besides, it is far more likely that it means nothing, anyway.

[SAMAS]

Apparently, supplemental materials say the Unobtainium was needed to facilitate easier FTL travel. Had Humanity needed it for survival, they most likely would not have left its procurement at the hands of a single corporation (unless there were other sources of Unobtainium).

[Highlord Laan]

Apparently, supplemental materials say the Unobtainium was needed to facilitate easier FTL travel. Had Humanity needed it for survival, they most likely would not have left its procurement at the hands of a single corporation (unless there were other sources of Unobtainium).

If unobtainium was truly needed for humankind's survival, it wouldn't be a corporation going to get it.

[Darth Wong]

Apparently, supplemental materials say the Unobtainium was needed to facilitate easier FTL travel. Had Humanity needed it for survival, they most likely would not have left its procurement at the hands of a single corporation (unless there were other sources of Unobtainium).

If unobtainium was truly needed for humankind's survival, it wouldn't be a corporation going to get it.

I made this exact same point many pages ago, to which some fucktard replied that there are big corporations in real-life who have monopolies over certain resources in certain geographical regions. As if that refutes the point; yeah sure, the governments of the world would just sit back and do nothing while a corporation seizes control of an asset vital to the survival of the entire human race.

Bullshitters have extracted an awful lot of mileage out of that "dying world" remark at the end of the film. Never mind the fact that certain people use similar language to describe present-day Earth.

[Shroom Man 777]

Re: Jake Sully, Norm, and their initiation to Na'vi culture. Note how none of the Avatars were deemed by the Na'vi to be worthy of being taught their ways of life and their ways of hunting, and none of them became a blood brother. Yes, Norm and Ripley had more exposure, yes they learned more of the language and taught the Na'vi english, yes they learned a whole lot of customs. But the fact is that Jake Sully trumps them because the Na'vi actually accepted him into their culture, the Na'vi actually taught him their secrets, and it was Jake - and no one else - who convinced the Na'vi to actually let the other Avatars, namely Sigourney Ripley Grace, back into their tribe. And even then, Grace and the other Avatars were still outsiders while Jake was one of them.

Jake was hot shit, man. You don't see Sigourney Ripley Grace or Shaggy Doo Norm go around hunting monsters while riding sky dragons, you don't see them riding six-legged ponies, you don't see them boning sexy blue-skinned space cat chicks with perky tits that inspire nerd rage. There was a reason why everyone, from the RDA mercenary assholes to the dorky scientists, was hanging around Jake because of his radical bling-bling fo' shizzle shiznit street cred with the Na'vi biotches. Mang.

[SylasGaunt]

Re: Jake Sully, Norm, and their initiation to Na'vi culture. Note how none of the Avatars were deemed by the Na'vi to be worthy of being taught their ways of life and their ways of hunting, and none of them became a blood brother. Yes, Norm and Ripley had more exposure, yes they learned more of the language and taught the Na'vi english, yes they learned a whole lot of customs. But the fact is that Jake Sully trumps them because the Na'vi actually accepted him into their culture, the Na'vi actually taught him their secrets, and it was Jake - and no one else - who convinced the Na'vi to actually let the other Avatars, namely Sigourney Ripley Grace, back into their tribe. And even then, Grace and the other Avatars were still outsiders while Jake was one of them.

Except they didn't tell him everything. Sure he got initiated but there was still plenty he hadn't been taught. Hell Grace had to identify the Tree of souls for him.

[petesampras]

Bullshitters have extracted an awful lot of mileage out of that "dying world" remark at the end of the film. Never mind the fact that certain people use similar language to describe present-day Earth.

Wasn't it Jake saying that at the end? And didn't he also give an earlier rant about the Earth being grey and lifeless because we'd cut down all the forests? From the Navis' point of view a planet where most of the forests were gone may well be considered dying. His final monologue about the "aliens" returning to their "dying world" came across to me as a way of affirming his new existance and passing judgement on his former people.

[The Grim Squeaker]

'Avatar' soars into $1-billion territory
Strong foreign ticket sales help make the science-fiction movie the fifth in history to pass the watermark.

By Ben Fritz

January 4, 2010
Whiter Teeth Now

One of the riskiest movies of all times is now officially one of the most successful at the box office.

When "Avatar" opened, its solid but far from stellar results left 20th Century Fox uncertain about whether the $430 million that it and two financing partners had invested to produce and market the 3-D film would pay off.

Less than three weeks later, there's no doubt. Director James Cameron's science-fiction epic on Sunday became only the fifth movie in history to gross more than $1 billion worldwide and, by far, was the fastest to do so.

The first three days of 2010 were spectacular for the movie industry, a feat considering that no new movies opened Friday. Every film in the top 10 dropped less than 38% from the previous weekend; a drop of less than 40% usually is seen as a modest figure.

Three of last week's releases -- "Sherlock Holmes," "Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel" and "It's Complicated" -- continued to have strong box-office appeal, but "Nine" was unable to recover from its disastrous start.

Total receipts were up 50% from the first weekend last year, setting Hollywood off to a strong start after a year in which domestic ticket sales grew 10% and attendance rose nearly 6%, according to Hollywood.com.

Ticket sales for "Avatar" fell only 10% in the U.S. and Canada to a studio-estimated $68.3 million, the biggest-ever third-weekend take. It blew away the previous record of $45 million set by "Spider-Man" in 2002, even accounting for inflation.

With $352.1 million already in the bank from domestic theaters, "Avatar" is on track to end up with at least $450 million domestically and perhaps significantly more if declines stay modest.

But "Avatar" has been strongest overseas, where it grossed $133.5 million in 110 markets this weekend, bringing its total to $670.2 million. It is already the fourth-highest grossing movie internationally and soon is expected to become the second, surpassing the $752 million collected by "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King."

"Avatar" already is the highest-grossing film ever in Russia, the fourth-highest in Spain and Australia, and the second-biggest U.S. movie ever in France, India and South Korea. It opens Monday in China, an increasingly lucrative market for effects-laden pictures.

Its only real competition in raking in more money than any film ever is Cameron's last film, "Titanic," which grossed $1.8 billion in 1997 and 1998. To beat that mark, "Avatar," which is currently at $1.03 billion, would have to keep generating big returns well into February or March.

Theaters with 3-D screens have accounted for about 75% of its returns in the U.S. and Canada and 59% to 88% in major foreign countries.

Ticket sales for Warner Bros.' re-imagining of "Sherlock Holmes," with Robert Downey Jr. in the starring role, dropped 38% in its second weekend, more than any other movie in the top 10. But with $38.4 million this weekend and a domestic total of $140.7 million, it's on solid ground given its $90-million production budget.

"Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel" slid 25% from its opening, collecting $36.6 million and bringing its total ticket sales since Dec. 23 to a healthy $157.4 million. Fox and New Regency spent $70 million to produce the family film.

Universal Pictures' romantic comedy "It's Complicated," starring Meryl Streep and Alec Baldwin, fell 15% in weekend receipts, bolstering director Nancy Meyers' reputation for making movies that play well for a long period of time. It grossed $18.7 million over the weekend and has collected a total of $59.1 million domestically. If declines stay small, Universal and Relativity Media should make good on the roughly $85 million they spent to make the movie.

The musical adaptation "Nine," which was financed by Weinstein Co. and Relativity, dropped only 22% from its Christmas Day opening in wide release. After a dismal start, however, its $4.3-million weekend leaves it with a total of just $14 million.

Several movies in the top 10 saw ticket sales increase this weekend, an unusual occurrence. Receipts for "The Blind Side" grew 10%, and "The Princess and the Frog" rose 11%.

But "Princess," Disney's first hand-drawn cartoon in five years, is at roughly the same domestic total after four weeks in wide release as such financially disappointing recent animated features from the studio as "Bolt" and "Meet the Robinsons."

Among movies playing on only a handful of screens, "The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus," directed by Terry Gilliam and starring Johnny Depp and the late Heath Ledger, took in a solid $130,817 at four theaters, bringing its total after two weeks to $348,677.

[NecronLord]

I am amazed by how much 'Death to the Na'vi' stuff this film has generated, when having finally seen it, they're so completely harmless. Really, I'm impressed by how few people on this board seem to be siding with the humans.

As for those that are, and assume 'The humies will be back with a rain of asteroids, Hail to the Emperor' why are you assuming that the company won't just get its necks stretched by the government that basically told them not to start shit in the first place, and someone more reasonable prepared to use less morally dubious unobtanium sources sent out?

And whoever it was who said that the Na'vi are "just going to sit on it until their sun dies" what, the, fuck? Do you have any conception of how long that is? By that time, even assuming they're not in contact with a powerful benevolent species human, their creators, or otherwise, that's more than long enough for them to work out a way to develop to unimagined technological heights on their own, regardless of (continued or rejected) veneration of their planet.

[Shroom Man 777]

Except they didn't tell him everything. Sure he got initiated but there was still plenty he hadn't been taught. Hell Grace had to identify the Tree of souls for him.

And there were things they didn't show Grace but showed to Jake, like training for warrior-hunter hood, or interfacing with those bioluminescent dead to commune with the world soul spiritually, or kinki hot Na'vi braid-tentacly secks!

[SylasGaunt]

And the point stands that we have absolutely zero reason to doubt Norm's assessment regarding the Tree.

[Shroom Man 777]

Except the fact that all it took was just some guy to rally their forces and wreak their revenge on the humans. Come on, if the Home Tree attack was so devastating, would just some shmuck on some big ass crocodile with wings really turn their irreparable irrevocable cultural sociological morale devastation around into a valiant attempt at resistance?

[SylasGaunt]

Except the fact that all it took was just some guy to rally their forces and wreak their revenge on the humans. Come on, if the Home Tree attack was so devastating, would just some shmuck on some big ass crocodile with wings really turn their irreparable irrevocable cultural sociological morale devastation around into a valiant attempt at resistance?

Norm was talking about the tree of souls not Hometree. Hometree was ultimately just that, their home, the Tree of Souls is apparently far more important.

[SAMAS]

Except they didn't tell him everything. Sure he got initiated but there was still plenty he hadn't been taught. Hell Grace had to identify the Tree of souls for him.

And there were things they didn't show Grace but showed to Jake, like training for warrior-hunter hood, or interfacing with those bioluminescent dead to commune with the world soul spiritually, or kinki hot Na'vi braid-tentacly secks!

Remember in Grace's case, she came as an outsider, even when she had the school, and lost it when problems with the company caused a shift in their relationship.

Jake, on the other hand, was pretty much thrown into the deep end of the pool on Day 1. He went though all the Na'vi's customs because that was pretty much the only way he could survive.