NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by Instant Sunrise »

New York Times wrote:Living on Nothing but Food Stamps
By JASON DEPARLE and ROBERT M. GEBELOFF

CAPE CORAL, Fla. — After an improbable rise from the Bronx projects to a job selling Gulf Coast homes, Isabel Bermudez lost it all to an epic housing bust — the six-figure income, the house with the pool and the investment property.

Now, as she papers the county with résumés and girds herself for rejection, she is supporting two daughters on an income that inspires a double take: zero dollars in monthly cash and a few hundred dollars in food stamps.

With food-stamp use at a record high and surging by the day, Ms. Bermudez belongs to an overlooked subgroup that is growing especially fast: recipients with no cash income.

About six million Americans receiving food stamps report they have no other income, according to an analysis of state data collected by The New York Times. In declarations that states verify and the federal government audits, they described themselves as unemployed and receiving no cash aid — no welfare, no unemployment insurance, and no pensions, child support or disability pay.

Their numbers were rising before the recession as tougher welfare laws made it harder for poor people to get cash aid, but they have soared by about 50 percent over the past two years. About one in 50 Americans now lives in a household with a reported income that consists of nothing but a food-stamp card.

“It’s the one thing I can count on every month — I know the children are going to have food,” Ms. Bermudez, 42, said with the forced good cheer she mastered selling rows of new stucco homes.

Members of this straitened group range from displaced strivers like Ms. Bermudez to weathered men who sleep in shelters and barter cigarettes. Some draw on savings or sporadic under-the-table jobs. Some move in with relatives. Some get noncash help, like subsidized apartments. While some go without cash incomes only briefly before securing jobs or aid, others rely on food stamps alone for many months.

The surge in this precarious way of life has been so swift that few policy makers have noticed. But it attests to the growing role of food stamps within the safety net. One in eight Americans now receives food stamps, including one in four children.

Here in Florida, the number of people with no income beyond food stamps has doubled in two years and has more than tripled along once-thriving parts of the southwest coast. The building frenzy that lured Ms. Bermudez to Fort Myers and neighboring Cape Coral has left a wasteland of foreclosed homes and written new tales of descent into star-crossed indigence.

A skinny fellow in saggy clothes who spent his childhood in foster care, Rex Britton, 22, hopped a bus from Syracuse two years ago for a job painting parking lots. Now, with unemployment at nearly 14 percent and paving work scarce, he receives $200 a month in food stamps and stays with a girlfriend who survives on a rent subsidy and a government check to help her care for her disabled toddler.

“Without food stamps we’d probably be starving,” Mr. Britton said.

A strapping man who once made a living throwing fastballs, William Trapani, 53, left his dreams on the minor league mound and his front teeth in prison, where he spent nine years for selling cocaine. Now he sleeps at a rescue mission, repairs bicycles for small change, and counts $200 in food stamps as his only secure support.

“I’ve been out looking for work every day — there’s absolutely nothing,” he said.

A grandmother whose voice mail message urges callers to “have a blessed good day,” Wanda Debnam, 53, once drove 18-wheelers and dreamed of selling real estate. But she lost her job at Starbucks this year and moved in with her son in nearby Lehigh Acres. Now she sleeps with her 8-year-old granddaughter under a poster of the Jonas Brothers and uses her food stamps to avoid her daughter-in-law’s cooking.

“I’m climbing the walls,” Ms. Debnam said.

Florida officials have done a better job than most in monitoring the rise of people with no cash income. They say the access to food stamps shows the safety net is working.

“The program is doing what it was designed to do: help very needy people get through a very difficult time,” said Don Winstead, deputy secretary for the Department of Children and Families. “But for this program they would be in even more dire straits.”

But others say the lack of cash support shows the safety net is torn. The main cash welfare program, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, has scarcely expanded during the recession; the rolls are still down about 75 percent from their 1990s peak. A different program, unemployment insurance, has rapidly grown, but still omits nearly half the unemployed. Food stamps, easier to get, have become the safety net of last resort.

“The food-stamp program is being asked to do too much,” said James Weill, president of the Food Research and Action Center, a Washington advocacy group. “People need income support.”

Food stamps, officially the called Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, have taken on a greater role in the safety net for several reasons. Since the benefit buys only food, it draws less suspicion of abuse than cash aid and more political support. And the federal government pays for the whole benefit, giving states reason to maximize enrollment. States typically share in other programs’ costs.

The Times collected income data on food-stamp recipients in 31 states, which account for about 60 percent of the national caseload. On average, 18 percent listed cash income of zero in their most recent monthly filings. Projected over the entire caseload, that suggests six million people in households with no income. About 1.2 million are children.

The numbers have nearly tripled in Nevada over the past two years, doubled in Florida and New York, and grown nearly 90 percent in Minnesota and Utah. In Wayne County, Mich., which includes Detroit, one of every 25 residents reports an income of only food stamps. In Yakima County, Wash., the figure is about one of every 17.

Experts caution that these numbers are estimates. Recipients typically report a small rise in earnings just once every six months, so some people listed as jobless may have recently found some work. New York officials say their numbers include some households with earnings from illegal immigrants, who cannot get food stamps but sometimes live with relatives who do.

Still, there is little doubt that millions of people are relying on incomes of food stamps alone, and their numbers are rapidly growing. “This is a reflection of the hardship that a lot of people in our state are facing; I think that is without question,” said Mr. Winstead, the Florida official.

With their condition mostly overlooked, there is little data on how long these households go without cash incomes or what other resources they have. But they appear an eclectic lot. Florida data shows the population about evenly split between families with children and households with just adults, with the latter group growing fastest during the recession. They are racially mixed as well — about 42 percent white, 32 percent black, and 22 percent Latino — with the growth fastest among whites during the recession.

The expansion of the food-stamp program, which will spend more than $60 billion this year, has so far enjoyed bipartisan support. But it does have conservative critics who worry about the costs and the rise in dependency.

“This is craziness,” said Representative John Linder, a Georgia Republican who is the ranking minority member of a House panel on welfare policy. “We’re at risk of creating an entire class of people, a subset of people, just comfortable getting by living off the government.”

Mr. Linder added: “You don’t improve the economy by paying people to sit around and not work. You improve the economy by lowering taxes” so small businesses will create more jobs.


With nearly 15,000 people in Lee County, Fla., reporting no income but food stamps, the Fort Myers area is a laboratory of inventive survival. When Rhonda Navarro, a cancer patient with a young son, lost running water, she ran a hose from an outdoor spigot that was still working into the shower stall. Mr. Britton, the jobless parking lot painter, sold his blood.

Kevin Zirulo and Diane Marshall, brother and sister, have more unlikely stories than a reality television show. With a third sibling paying their rent, they are living on a food-stamp benefit of $300 a month. A gun collector covered in patriotic tattoos, Mr. Zirulo, 31, has sold off two semiautomatic rifles and a revolver. Ms. Marshall, who has a 7-year-old daughter, scavenges discarded furniture to sell on the Internet.

They said they dropped out of community college and diverted student aid to household expenses. They received $150 from the Nielsen Company, which monitors their television. They grew so desperate this month, they put the breeding services of the family Chihuahua up for bid on Craigslist.

“We look at each other all the time and say we don’t know how we get through,” Ms. Marshall said.

Ms. Bermudez, by contrast, tells what until the recession seemed a storybook tale. Raised in the Bronx by a drug-addicted mother, she landed a clerical job at a Manhattan real estate firm and heard that Fort Myers was booming. On a quick scouting trip in 2002, she got a mortgage on easy terms for a $120,000 home with three bedrooms and a two-car garage. The developer called the floor plan Camelot.

“I screamed, I cried,” she said. “I took so much pride in that house.”

Jobs were as plentiful as credit. Working for two large builders, she quickly moved from clerical jobs to sales and bought an investment home. Her income soared to $180,000, and she kept the pay stubs to prove it. By the time the glut set in and she lost her job, the teaser rates on her mortgages had expired and her monthly payments soared.

She landed a few short-lived jobs as the industry imploded, exhausted her unemployment insurance and spent all her savings. But without steady work in nearly three years, she could not stay afloat. In January, the bank foreclosed on Camelot.

One morning as the eviction deadline approached, Ms. Bermudez woke up without enough food to get through the day. She got emergency supplies at a food pantry for her daughters, Tiffany, now 17, and Ashley, 4, and signed up for food stamps. “My mother lived off the government,” she said. “It wasn’t something as a proud working woman I wanted to do.”

For most of the year, she did have a $600 government check to help her care for Ashley, who has a developmental disability. But she lost it after she was hospitalized and missed an appointment to verify the child’s continued eligibility. While she is trying to get it restored, her sole income now is $320 in food stamps.

Ms. Bermudez recently answered the door in her best business clothes and handed a reporter her résumé, which she distributes by the ream. It notes she was once a “million-dollar producer” and “deals well with the unexpected.”

“I went from making $180,000 to relying on food stamps,” she said. “Without that government program, I wouldn’t be able to feed my children.”
Quick history lesson: Congress, with the cheerful assistance of Bill Clinton, spent a good portion of the 1990's slashing the nation's welfare system to ribbons; nearly all of what's left is either TANF or food stamps. Turns out that it's a good thing we've still got those food stamps.

So, twelve and a half percent of the population, and a quarter of the children in the United States of America is currently eating on food stamps. What a fucking mess.

Look at this:
“This is craziness,” said Representative John Linder, a Georgia Republican who is the ranking minority member of a House panel on welfare policy. “We’re at risk of creating an entire class of people, a subset of people, just comfortable getting by living off the government.”

Mr. Linder added: “You don’t improve the economy by paying people to sit around and not work. You improve the economy by lowering taxes” so small businesses will create more jobs.
Shit like that makes me want to barf. This vaunted "economic recovery" isn't going to happen until shitheads like him stop parroting Reagan's anecdotes about 'welfare queens' with "eighty names, thirty addresses, twelve Social Security cards and is collecting veteran's benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. And she is collecting Social Security on her cards. She's got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names."

By the way, nobody has ever been able to find a case of welfare fraud that matches that description that THE GIPPER gave. Nor any evidence that fraud is rampant within the welfare system.

But hey, at least the 1994 'Republican Revolution' got rid of the deficits, right?
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by Simon_Jester »

I wonder what would have happened if they'd managed to kill the food stamps, too. Riots, you think?
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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Simon_Jester wrote:I wonder what would have happened if they'd managed to kill the food stamps, too. Riots, you think?
No. The only secure social welfare net in this country is Medicare, since a) The aging Baby Boomers support it and b) it isn't really connected to "Welfare", as epitomized by the famous 2008 campaign quotes "Keep your goddamned government hands off my Medicare!" and "I don't want government-run health care. I don't want socialized medicine. And don't touch my Medicare."


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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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Simon_Jester wrote:I wonder what would have happened if they'd managed to kill the food stamps, too. Riots, you think?
Dead people.

Here's the American Version of Soviet Breadlines: Food stamps, government handing out food. But it's oh-so-unnoticable, now it's a swipeable card, the troublesome issues of having to SEE the problem are removed.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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AMT wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:I wonder what would have happened if they'd managed to kill the food stamps, too. Riots, you think?
No. The only secure social welfare net in this country is Medicare...
I think you misunderstood. If they had managed to kill the food stamps then, in the mid-90s, I'm wondering what would be happening now, what with the large-scale starvation. SirNitram's answer is almost certainly right, but I'm wondering about the political effects.
SirNitram wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:I wonder what would have happened if they'd managed to kill the food stamps, too. Riots, you think?
Dead people.
Yes, but I am far from certain all the dying would be quiet. I'm not claiming to know; I'm just not sure. Famines have touched off political violence before, after all.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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Except we aren't facing famine. The deaths will impact people who the populace have been relentlessly told are worthless, failures, beyond hope because they live or die on the continuation of Federal aid. Maybe there might be outcry, but I think you underestimate the 'Poor people are failures' propaganda continued to the present day.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I'm sorry, I may just be overtired or facing severe comprehension problems, but out of all the figures and statistics in the article I'm not seeing '1 in 8 on food stamps'. Could someone point it out to me? I'm only seeing foodstamp numbers for certain towns, or '% of people on foodstamps with no other income'.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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“This is craziness,” said Representative John Linder, a Georgia Republican who is the ranking minority member of a House panel on welfare policy. “We’re at risk of creating an entire class of people, a subset of people, just comfortable getting by living off the government.”

Mr. Linder added: “You don’t improve the economy by paying people to sit around and not work. You improve the economy by lowering taxes” so small businesses will create more jobs.
Asshole?? Foodstamps isn't even "getting by" let alone "just comfortable" they can't pay their fucking rent with foodstamps, they can't fill their car up with gas, or even use them as a bus ticket. moreover if your unemployed and on food stamps you sanctioned if you don't look for work.

I love people who take a clear indication that the economy is in shambles and demand any corrective action be ceased as it would encourage laziness.

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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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CaptainChewbacca wrote:I'm sorry, I may just be overtired or facing severe comprehension problems, but out of all the figures and statistics in the article I'm not seeing '1 in 8 on food stamps'. Could someone point it out to me? I'm only seeing foodstamp numbers for certain towns, or '% of people on foodstamps with no other income'.
About the third paragraph down.
The surge in this precarious way of life has been so swift that few policy makers have noticed. But it attests to the growing role of food stamps within the safety net. One in eight Americans now receives food stamps, including one in four children.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by Instant Sunrise »

@Chewie
New York Times wrote:The surge in this precarious way of life has been so swift that few policy makers have noticed. But it attests to the growing role of food stamps within the safety net. One in eight Americans now receives food stamps, including one in four children.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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Themightytom wrote:
“This is craziness,” said Representative John Linder, a Georgia Republican who is the ranking minority member of a House panel on welfare policy. “We’re at risk of creating an entire class of people, a subset of people, just comfortable getting by living off the government.”

Mr. Linder added: “You don’t improve the economy by paying people to sit around and not work. You improve the economy by lowering taxes” so small businesses will create more jobs.
Asshole?? Foodstamps isn't even "getting by" let alone "just comfortable" they can't pay their fucking rent with foodstamps, they can't fill their car up with gas, or even use them as a bus ticket. moreover if your unemployed and on food stamps you sanctioned if you don't look for work.

I love people who take a clear indication that the economy is in shambles and demand any corrective action be ceased as it would encourage laziness.
Fine, let's start by cutting this douche nozzle's pay and benefits. There's something really obnoxious about people who gorge themselves on the government tit, and then begrudge others for getting a few drops.

By the way, food stamps aren't charity for the poor. They're a government subsidy for agriculture, meant to encourage people to buy more food and keep farmers ADM in business. That's why the coupons have U.S. Department of Agriculture printed on them, not Health & Human Services:

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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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I think you misunderstood. If they had managed to kill the food stamps then, in the mid-90s, I'm wondering what would be happening now, what with the large-scale starvation. SirNitram's answer is almost certainly right, but I'm wondering about the political effects.
To which I say again, there wouldn't be any political effects, due to the Conservative effect. It'd be similar to the whining that occurs when it comes to actual health care reform in this nation;

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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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By the way - you can count me and mine in that 1 in 8 figure. I got my first "food stamps" as of December 1, 2009.

Elfdart: no one uses paper coupons anymore, it's an "EBT card" that looks just like a debit card. In Indiana, the same piece of plastic can have SNAP (that's "food stamps"), TANF, Medicaid, and probably other forms of public aid on it. So people swipe that card at the grocery store, at Wal-Mart, at the doctor's office, at the pharmacy...

I'm not quite "no other income" - in December I earned $48 whole dollars. My dad paid my rent. As "food stamps" pay ONLY for food that $48 had to pay for toilet paper, toothpaste, gas, that co-pay on the doctor-prescribed ointment for my infected skin....

The good news is that we've probably eaten better in December than the proceeding couple of months. Then again, I have a fully equipped kitchen and I know how to cook, including making substitutions when necessary, and have a freezer full of vegetables from my garden. That, and the fact my husband is disabled gives us a few extra dollars in the program. Also, some very generous people helped us out with some money just out-and-out given to us so we could cover all our other necessities.

I've been looking for work for over two years. I have a college education. I have found only part time and temporary work, nothing steady or anything I could really rely on. Because we have no children and my Other Half's disability claim has still not been approved we qualify for no assistance other than food stamps. I do not complain about receiving help with the groceries, I am quite grateful for it - but what does make me despair at times is losing everything else I own or have ever worked for in this life through no fault of my own. I played by the rules, did everything "right", and still I can not find work enough to pay my bills.

Themighytom is correct - if you're unemployed and you can't prove you're looking for work you can lose ALL your benefits. Not only that, if just one member of a family isn't performing in this manner to the satisfaction of the welfare office everyone in the family loses all their benefits. And what constitutes "proof" is up to them. For example, they did NOT accept my phoning/meeting with customers of my own "business" (I am self-employed) to be looking for work. No - filling out a job application was looking for work, bidding on a clean-up project isn't. :roll: So until my caseworker sorted things out I had to spend 4-6 hours a day filling out job applications (I do some of that anyway, but usually not that much in a day) THEN I would actually do the activities that have actually netted me work the past two years. The employment arm of the bureaucracy keep trying to get me to "admit" I was actually an employee of my customers! Oh, and eBay auctions aren't looking for work, even though there have been months they've earned me significant money, and taking scrap to the recyclers "doesn't count" even if that's how I paid for gas money this month. Oh - and they scheduled me at one point for four days of "work readiness seminar". Fine. Except that was a week I actually got work. Well, could I reschedule it? No, it's very important that I attend this seminar so I will learn what it required of me to hold a full time job (um... yeah, I did that for over 25 years but apparently I'm lumped in with those who have never worked a day in their life). OK, but you folks told me it was very important for me to work and any income is better than no income so IN ORDER TO KEEP THIS WEEK OF WORK can I PLEASE reschedule for another session of this seminar? No.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Eventually, I convinced the system that on average I work sufficient hours per week to not be required to do their "job hunting" crap. The "employment" people really DO NOT like the fact I am self employed (yes, I realize some people use the term to evade admitting they're shiftless bums. I, however, have a documented two years of doing this, including paying taxes to the IRS. I can prove that I do, in fact, work) and DO NOT like the fact that hours per week vary from 0 to 50. Fuck them.

Sorry, I've probably gone off on a bit of tangent, but it's related to the topic.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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California unemployment is AWESOME. I fill out a form every two weeks, I declare any wages earned, and I keep looking for work. There's so many unemployed people they don't actually ask me for doccumentation that I'm looking for work. I could, but its nice not to have to. They do everything online and over the phone, there isn't even a physical office for me to go to.

Oh, and Broomie, they don't use paper stamps anymore, but many programs DO issue coupons for specific items (cereal, eggs, cheese, etc) which people receive in person or via mail. A friend of mine was on multiple support programs and I had to drive her a few times.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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CaptainChewbacca wrote:California unemployment is AWESOME. I fill out a form every two weeks, I declare any wages earned, and I keep looking for work. There's so many unemployed people they don't actually ask me for doccumentation that I'm looking for work. I could, but its nice not to have to. They do everything online and over the phone, there isn't even a physical office for me to go to.

Oh, and Broomie, they don't use paper stamps anymore, but many programs DO issue coupons for specific items (cereal, eggs, cheese, etc) which people receive in person or via mail. A friend of mine was on multiple support programs and I had to drive her a few times.
I haven't ever filed for Indiana unemployment despite the fact that I'll be 43 years old in March.
Knocking on wood that I will never have first hand experience with it, those I know who have had to deal with our system say that it's not nearly as 'user friendly' as California's.

If you 'want to know more', google 'IBM Indiana welfare' for more details.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

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CaptainChewbacca wrote:Oh, and Broomie, they don't use paper stamps anymore, but many programs DO issue coupons for specific items (cereal, eggs, cheese, etc) which people receive in person or via mail. A friend of mine was on multiple support programs and I had to drive her a few times.
That's WIC - Women, Infants, and Children. Not being pregnant and not having young children I don't qualify for it. (Single men can get it for their kids, if they're primary parent, though obviously they aren't themselves women. It's amazing how many people get confused on that issue.)
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by Broomstick »

Glocksman wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:California unemployment is AWESOME. I fill out a form every two weeks, I declare any wages earned, and I keep looking for work. There's so many unemployed people they don't actually ask me for doccumentation that I'm looking for work. I could, but its nice not to have to. They do everything online and over the phone, there isn't even a physical office for me to go to.

Oh, and Broomie, they don't use paper stamps anymore, but many programs DO issue coupons for specific items (cereal, eggs, cheese, etc) which people receive in person or via mail. A friend of mine was on multiple support programs and I had to drive her a few times.
I haven't ever filed for Indiana unemployment despite the fact that I'll be 43 years old in March.
Knocking on wood that I will never have first hand experience with it, those I know who have had to deal with our system say that it's not nearly as 'user friendly' as California's.

If you 'want to know more', google 'IBM Indiana welfare' for more details.
Indiana unemployment isn't that bad - they do stuff either on paper or on-line, not on the phone. (Illinois does stuff entirely over the phone - this obviously varies from state to state)

WHEN I was eligible for unemployment the system was so overloaded I wound up needing to make little documentation. Unfortunately, my eligibility for that program ran out in 2008.
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Simon_Jester
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by Simon_Jester »

SirNitram wrote:Except we aren't facing famine. The deaths will impact people who the populace have been relentlessly told are worthless, failures, beyond hope because they live or die on the continuation of Federal aid. Maybe there might be outcry, but I think you underestimate the 'Poor people are failures' propaganda continued to the present day.
Oh, other people might not start getting violent on their behalf, but might they not get violent?
AMT wrote:
I think you misunderstood. If they had managed to kill the food stamps then, in the mid-90s, I'm wondering what would be happening now, what with the large-scale starvation. SirNitram's answer is almost certainly right, but I'm wondering about the political effects.
To which I say again, there wouldn't be any political effects, due to the Conservative effect. It'd be similar to the whining that occurs when it comes to actual health care reform in this nation;
"If they can't afford food then its their fault for not working hard enough."
I'm not as sure as you are that it would work, though. People can rationalize not getting health care to themselves to the point where they won't start looting store in anger at their lack of health care. They cannot so easily rationalize not getting food. At the very least, I'd expect to see a rapid rise in people stealing food that they coulldn't afford, even if there was no mass politicized violence involved.
Broomstick wrote:...
Eventually, I convinced the system that on average I work sufficient hours per week to not be required to do their "job hunting" crap. The "employment" people really DO NOT like the fact I am self employed (yes, I realize some people use the term to evade admitting they're shiftless bums. I, however, have a documented two years of doing this, including paying taxes to the IRS. I can prove that I do, in fact, work) and DO NOT like the fact that hours per week vary from 0 to 50. Fuck them.

Sorry, I've probably gone off on a bit of tangent, but it's related to the topic.
I think you have nothing to apologize for, and have great reasons to say everything you just said.

I only wish I knew whether the system was this bad before the 1996 welfare deforms.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by Guardsman Bass »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:California unemployment is AWESOME. I fill out a form every two weeks, I declare any wages earned, and I keep looking for work. There's so many unemployed people they don't actually ask me for doccumentation that I'm looking for work. I could, but its nice not to have to. They do everything online and over the phone, there isn't even a physical office for me to go to.

Oh, and Broomie, they don't use paper stamps anymore, but many programs DO issue coupons for specific items (cereal, eggs, cheese, etc) which people receive in person or via mail. A friend of mine was on multiple support programs and I had to drive her a few times.
That actually makes me think of another thing that would probably happen if food stamps were ever abolished, along with starvation, higher petty theft and panhandling rates, and a crushing increase of demand on charitable food sources (food banks and the like): greater migration. You'd probably see more people with very little moving around the country, or at least those that could afford it - like in the Great Depression. They'd probably head to where they hoped there would be work, or at least to the states that have better assistance programs.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by Broomstick »

Simon_Jester wrote:I only wish I knew whether the system was this bad before the 1996 welfare deforms.
Yes and no.

Food stamp fraud used to be a major concern - it really did grow into a serious problem The use of EBT cards has really cut down on that.

Prior to 1996 it was a lot easier to stay on aid for life. Most people would probably agree that while aid should be sufficient it should not be a situation that encourages idleness. I guess a major difference between the ultra-conservative and the more liberal is whether or not someone assumes "lazy" is the default. Me, I've met wealthy lazy fucks who inherited their money and were a waste of oxygen, and I've met insanely ambitious and energetic poor people. I don't care where you go, there's always a spectrum of people.

The current system probably worked reasonably well in good times. It was designed during an economic boom - it does NOT work so well in an economic bust. When times were booming I never was out of work longer than a week or two and thus never needed the system. Finding a job was MUCH easier. Now... they system is designed to put the screws on people who don't find employment quickly, but the fact is you can try as hard as possible and still not find work because in many areas no one is hiring. Period. It can be difficult just to apply to sufficient numbers of places simply because no one is offering work and won't even let you fill out an application. People keep pouring into the program, but the exit - jobs with a livable wage - have been squeezed so fewer people are exiting, and at a much slower rate than before.

The work-finding system is clearly designed for the difficult cases - lack of high school diploma or GED, lack of experience in working, problems with criminal records or substance abuse... it doesn't fit the out of work person with higher education, no criminal record, no drug/alcohol problem who simply can't find work.

Another problem is that the system assumes prior knowledge of the system. Yes, there have always been "generational welfare" chronic poor. They know the system very well. Someone like me... I kept having to remind welfare workers that I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, they have to TELL ME what is needed and what is expected because I just don't know. Really. No one in my family has been on SNAP or its predecessors since 1941! It's changed just a little bit since then....

Um... well, while I'm here, does anyone have any specific questions about the programs I'm on, my experiences, or whatever? And if the moderators think splitting that part of it to a different thread is appropriate feel free. Or we'll just keep it here.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by ArmorPierce »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9NmgcAKW0w ol' dirty bastard riding his limo out to collect his food stamps and welfare money in 1995.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by SirNitram »

Simon_Jester wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Except we aren't facing famine. The deaths will impact people who the populace have been relentlessly told are worthless, failures, beyond hope because they live or die on the continuation of Federal aid. Maybe there might be outcry, but I think you underestimate the 'Poor people are failures' propaganda continued to the present day.
Oh, other people might not start getting violent on their behalf, but might they not get violent?
Social stigma will stop some. Of course, the situation of being in that position will cramp any attempts. Being without income and not having much food, you're not in prime public demonstration stamina. Besides, the media rules all. Remember the multi-million person anti-Iraq marches? If not: You have your answer.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by aieeegrunt »

Jesus Christ every time I read one of these threads I want to kiss the Maple Leaf and thank The Lord that I live in a civilized country and not some barbaric collective sociopathy like the USA. I was out of work for most of this year due to being an auto worker, and absent EI and other pinko socialist institutions it could have very easily turned into the kind of economic death spiral that it sounds like Broomstick is just barely avoiding.

I am never, nor will anyone I love every live in the US if I can at all help it. Jesus Christ, one out of 4 children on food stamps? And how many hundreds of millions given to rich bankers? Jesus Christ dude.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by montypython »

aieeegrunt wrote:Jesus Christ every time I read one of these threads I want to kiss the Maple Leaf and thank The Lord that I live in a civilized country and not some barbaric collective sociopathy like the USA. I was out of work for most of this year due to being an auto worker, and absent EI and other pinko socialist institutions it could have very easily turned into the kind of economic death spiral that it sounds like Broomstick is just barely avoiding.

I am never, nor will anyone I love every live in the US if I can at all help it. Jesus Christ, one out of 4 children on food stamps? And how many hundreds of millions given to rich bankers? Jesus Christ dude.
Having worked for the US government I have to say that Canada's system is a paragon of efficiency by comparison.
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Re: NYT: 1 in 8 Americans are on Food Stamps

Post by Broomstick »

That's because since at least 1980 the Republicans have done their best to "starve the beast" and make inept government a self-fulfilling prophecy.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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