Activist boat 'sliced in two' by Japanese whalers

[Alyrium Denryle]

In retrospect, kinda sad to see Bob "The Price is Wrong, Bitch!" Barker align with them, even if it's claimed by Sea Shepherd that it was their idea to name a ship after him.

Why? Because murdering intelligent creatures which cannot sustain commercial harvesting with their population structure and life history characters is somehow... correct?

[Lonestar]

Why? Because murdering intelligent creatures which cannot sustain commercial harvesting with their population structure and life history characters is somehow... correct?

I don't think Yee was rooting for the Whalers, just noting that the Sea Shepherd folks are a danger to themselves and others on the high seas. While I can certainly sympathize with their cause it's only a matter of time before they kill someone.

Either international law regulating whaling needs to be changed, or Japanese Whalers need to be brought up on charges. Those are the two legitimate options. Sea Shepherd resorts to vigilantism and sets out to endanger the maximum amount of people while doing so.

[Chardok]

I normally support sea shepherd, but you can tell by the propwash that the idiots on the Ady Gil were moving forward INTO THE PATH OF THE HUGE WHALING SHIP. This was asinine and they deserved to lose that boat. It's a miracle no one was killed. Even if the whaling ship tried HARD to move (at the peril of her own crew), they would not have been able to avoid the batboat. I hope Sea Shepherd learns from this experience, but they won't.

I support most measures that disrupt whaling, but opening fire, Mike? That's a little much. Most of the poor schmucks on that rig are just schmoes trying to earn a living. I'm all for fouling props, severing catch lines, hell, I might even be okay with a ("pseudo non-violent", if there is such a thing) boarding action so that all the harpoons on the boat could be disabled, but I can't see supporting action that would almost certainly result in the deaths of the crew of either vessel.

[Beowulf]

Having viewed the video from the Japanese ship, it appears that the Ady Gil accelerated into the path of the Shonan Maru 2 (there's a sudden increase in the froth at the rear of the Ady Gil, which is not something that would be expected if the screws were turning in reverse). It's somewhat hard to tell if the Shonan Maru or the Ady Gil were manuevering from the clip, due to a lack of fixed reference points. The video of the collision from the point of view of the Bob Barker are also not quite useful, as the video of the Barker was shot to port, which may cause the Shonan Maru to appear to manuever to starboard, even if it was not commanded to do so, due to the motion of the Barker herself.

For a split screen view of the collision from both ships with footage:

[Themightytom]

Clearly Japan needs to invest in a fleet of nuclear powered 28 knot whalers with reinforced hulls, so that they can outrun all sea shepherd attempts to intercept them; and if they can't outrun them, set RAMMING SPEED.

What is the load bearing capacity of nuclear powered blimps? Could they heft a whale?



This video starts a bit ealier and it seems the Ady was trying to cut accross the japanese ships bow and fucked up at the last minute, the Japanese ship is hauling ass though.

I really have to nod my head to SD.NET before joining this site I figured the seas were pretty much tamed, now I'm seeing Somali pirates stealing ships with tanks on board, Japanese whalers ramming Sea Hippies... I'm waiting for the secret volcano lair to be discovered.

Edit: Damnit Beowulf just did my post onjly better..

[Sea Skimmer]

I really have to nod my head to SD.NET before joining this site I figured the seas were pretty much tamed, now I'm seeing Somali pirates stealing ships with tanks on board, Japanese whalers ramming Sea Hippies... I'm waiting for the secret volcano lair to be discovered.

Such a thing kind of exists, if by secret you mean freely open to the public. You go visit a US Army fort build inside the volcanic Diamond Head Crater on Oahu. The Army dug tunnels through the crater rim for access and to create concrete reinforced gun batteries, as well as installing a battery of huge 12in mortars on the crater floor. They also built a four story bunker into the highest peak of the crater rim which was linked to surrounding gun batteries and had a view spanning most of Oahu.

http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/diamo ... hih856.jpg

Area wasn’t even remotely this developed when the fort was constructed though.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Actually it probably is because Bob's a member of the PETA board of directors...

Wait does that mean that sea sheps have a Bill Mayher, and Ingrid Newkirk, how about a Pam Anderson, or an Opera Winfry

[Alyrium Denryle]

Why? Because murdering intelligent creatures which cannot sustain commercial harvesting with their population structure and life history characters is somehow... correct?

I don't think Yee was rooting for the Whalers, just noting that the Sea Shepherd folks are a danger to themselves and others on the high seas. While I can certainly sympathize with their cause it's only a matter of time before they kill someone.

Either international law regulating whaling needs to be changed, or Japanese Whalers need to be brought up on charges. Those are the two legitimate options. Sea Shepherd resorts to vigilantism and sets out to endanger the maximum amount of people while doing so.

Oh they are certainly idiots. However there are two problems with the legitimate approaches.

1) The IWC is a weak body. Not only is there a whaling faction that like republicans does not argue in good faith, or obey the regulations in good faith (see: japan) but member nations can just withdraw and not be subject to those same regulations. That is why they have so many concessions granted to them and why Japan (and certain nordic countries) flout the law. They can just take their ball and go home and the anti-whaling faction views that it is better to give in to them so that at least they report their harvests.

2) Brought up on charges by whom exactly? They whale in international waters.

Vigilantism is perfectly acceptable when no law exists that can redress the wrong, and when no body is in place that can create the necessary laws. It is like claiming that vigilantism is wrong in an anarchy.

[Darth Wong]

I normally support sea shepherd, but you can tell by the propwash that the idiots on the Ady Gil were moving forward INTO THE PATH OF THE HUGE WHALING SHIP. This was asinine and they deserved to lose that boat. It's a miracle no one was killed. Even if the whaling ship tried HARD to move (at the peril of her own crew), they would not have been able to avoid the batboat. I hope Sea Shepherd learns from this experience, but they won't.

I support most measures that disrupt whaling, but opening fire, Mike? That's a little much. Most of the poor schmucks on that rig are just schmoes trying to earn a living. I'm all for fouling props, severing catch lines, hell, I might even be okay with a ("pseudo non-violent", if there is such a thing) boarding action so that all the harpoons on the boat could be disabled, but I can't see supporting action that would almost certainly result in the deaths of the crew of either vessel.

It is the blatant contempt for international law which makes me say that. You don't think they're openly thumbing their noses at international law by pretending that their entire whale catch is for "scientific research"?

[Alyrium Denryle]

I normally support sea shepherd, but you can tell by the propwash that the idiots on the Ady Gil were moving forward INTO THE PATH OF THE HUGE WHALING SHIP. This was asinine and they deserved to lose that boat. It's a miracle no one was killed. Even if the whaling ship tried HARD to move (at the peril of her own crew), they would not have been able to avoid the batboat. I hope Sea Shepherd learns from this experience, but they won't.

I support most measures that disrupt whaling, but opening fire, Mike? That's a little much. Most of the poor schmucks on that rig are just schmoes trying to earn a living. I'm all for fouling props, severing catch lines, hell, I might even be okay with a ("pseudo non-violent", if there is such a thing) boarding action so that all the harpoons on the boat could be disabled, but I can't see supporting action that would almost certainly result in the deaths of the crew of either vessel.

It is the blatant contempt for international law which makes me say that. You don't think they're openly thumbing their noses at international law by pretending that their entire whale catch is for "scientific research"?

They publish things like... of all things, sampling techniques and tracking methods for pods. You cannot actually get any good research done in any other area of whale biology with their methods.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'd suggest upping the scale of the effort by getting ships which aren't so absurdly expensive and useless. Sea Sheppard has bad seamen; I could probably do a better job than they do, just because I'd take the sea and the boats seriously. Those gimps do not respect the ocean nor do they respect the navigational art, and this is no surprise. I'd buy that big old Sahara or some other NOAA research ship--she's being turned into a 50 mil yacht but the base cost of the hulk was about 1.7 million--and fit her with wooden ramming bumpers like the British fitted to some of their frigates in the cod war. And then do the ramming professionally, to disable whaling ships without inflicting damage serious enough to threaten sinking either ship. And, of course, have your crew standing by in immersion suits ready to conduct rescue operations on the whaler's crew if you misestimate and cause her fatal damage.

[Archaic`]

The Japanese can go fuck themselves. They have no right to accuse anyone of "felonious" behaviour when they're flouting the law all the time.

"The Sea Shepherd extremism is becoming more violent... Their actions are nothing but felonious behaviour," Japan's Institute of Cetacean Research said in a statement.

Oh yeah, "Institute of Cetacean Research". Do you know how Japan gets around international whaling laws? The laws contain an exemption for "scientific research", so the Japanese simply classify their entire whaling catch as research, even though the meat ends up in grocery stores in Tokyo. What a bunch of dishonest weasely little shits. Fucking Japanese whalers can suck my ass. I wouldn't shed a tear for them if the next Sea Shepherd boat grew a pair of testicles and opened fire on them.

You can't pin this one completly on Japan. International Whaling Commission regulations require that the leftover whale meat be sold. Last time I saw the figures in 2007, the sale of the meat only defrays about 90% of costs of the expedition. I'm sure some of the companies they sell the meat to wholesale make a profit off it, but the whalers themselves certainly don't. As for their research, they've certainly published. Some of it seems rather kooky (the paper Fertilizability of ovine, bovine, and minke whales spermatazoa intracytoplasmically injected into bovine oocytes being the best example there), and a good amount of it seems specifically intended to be used as justification in the future for the resumption of commercial whaling (the aforementioned sampling techniques and tracking methods, along with arguably the research into whale breeding stocks and fertility), but it is there all the same, and there are some pieces of valuable research among the chaff (studies into the impact whales have on the species of sea life they feed on). While it's a valid point that a lot of this research doesn't actually require lethal methods, it is necessary for them to catch the numbers they do to obtain a statistically significant sample size for the ones that do. So as much as whaling might be distasteful, the actions of the Japanese researchers are not illegal. Quite the opposite actually, they're following the law to the letter. That's not saying the laws aren't stupid, weakly enforced, or that the Japanese aren't taking advantage of large container ship sized loopholes in them, of course, but you certainly can't claim they're doing something they're not allowed to.

It really doesn't help those who are against Whaling that Sea Shepherd is involved in this whole thing however. There's a reason they're considered eco-terrorist organizations by a number of national governments. Aiming lasers at the crew, throwing butyric acid (their "stink bombs") on the decks of the ships, illegal boarding of the Japanese vessels, etc. After listening to the audio on Sea Shepherd's own footage, with their completely unexcited responses, I'd be very surprised if they weren't trying to get themselves sunk there for the publicity. The video certainly appears to show them trying to get in the way, and I have a hard time believing that a vessel they were crowing about the speed and agility of only a month ago couldn't get out of the way of the slow moving ship they put themselves in the way of. While it might be fair to suggest that the Japanese had a moral responsibility to avoid the collision (if possible, it's not as if those things have breaks), by the international law of the sea, they did have the right of way.

I think they've actually painted "kill stamps" on the side of the hull of one of the ships to tally up the number of ships rammed.

Number of ships sunk, not just rammed. I don't believe the tally includes ships sunk at dock though. Not all of those ships (in fact, the majority of those ships) in that tally were illegal whalers either. Paul Watson is still wanted for gross destruction of property in relation to that. Heard a while back that he was actually wanted for the death of some crew on a sunken whaling vessel as well, but I can't seem to find any cooperation for that with a quick Google search.

[Ma Deuce]

I'd suggest upping the scale of the effort by getting ships which aren't so absurdly expensive and useless. Sea Sheppard has bad seamen; I could probably do a better job than they do, just because I'd take the sea and the boats seriously. Those gimps do not respect the ocean nor do they respect the navigational art, and this is no surprise. I'd buy that big old Sahara or some other NOAA research ship--she's being turned into a 50 mil yacht but the base cost of the hulk was about 1.7 million--and fit her with wooden ramming bumpers like the British fitted to some of their frigates in the cod war. And then do the ramming professionally, to disable whaling ships without inflicting damage serious enough to threaten sinking either ship. And, of course, have your crew standing by in immersion suits ready to conduct rescue operations on the whaler's crew if you misestimate and cause her fatal damage.

Yeah, and if the Sea Shepherds actually start becoming successful at disabling Japanese whaling ships, that will simply start warranting increased attention from the Japanese coast guard, who could quite legally seize any Sea Shepherd ship on the high seas for piracy if they can be proved to have attacked or damaged a whaling ship. All this talk about whether or not the Sea Shepherds should be practicing their high-seas crusading or what methods they should use is frankly academic because it clearly isn't working either at stopping the whaling or generating sympathy for their cause. They might have more luck directing their resources at a propaganda campaign to encourage individuals and governments to boycott ALL Japanese products, something which I could actually get behind (well, if it didn't mean being associated with Watson and his ilk, that it ). Probably won't work either, but I can't see it failing any harder than their clumsy attempts at vigilantism.

[The Yosemite Bear]

hmmm, how about a Sub marina......

[Covenant]

Honestly, I don't know why they have to ram anything anyway. I sincerely wish the whaling efforts to fail, as well as to halt the devastation to other sea critter stocks like tuna, but you'd think they'd be able to devise some method of scaring whales off and then getting a bunch of cheap, long-endurance vessels to just haul around the scare-o-matics. Barring that, there's nothing they can do on their own in the face of such numerical superiority.

They can't afford to go Captain Nemo on these guys, nor is it ethical to do so, since killing people is not a fair step upwards, even despite the unnecessary nature of Japan's rule-defying slaughter harvest. Spending money on dangerous propaganda that just riles up their base but nobody else (IE, getting your boat run over) is dumb. We've got to go after the idiots in Japan who prop up this industry, which isn't glamorous or quick but will ultimately be more effective.

I really wish the Sea Shepard people were effective at scaring off the whales or whaling ships, but they're just not, and they're going to get some wide-eyed kid killed by sending inexperienced ship hands into dangerous situations.

[Knife]

I'd suggest upping the scale of the effort by getting ships which aren't so absurdly expensive and useless. Sea Sheppard has bad seamen; I could probably do a better job than they do, just because I'd take the sea and the boats seriously. Those gimps do not respect the ocean nor do they respect the navigational art, and this is no surprise. I'd buy that big old Sahara or some other NOAA research ship--she's being turned into a 50 mil yacht but the base cost of the hulk was about 1.7 million--and fit her with wooden ramming bumpers like the British fitted to some of their frigates in the cod war. And then do the ramming professionally, to disable whaling ships without inflicting damage serious enough to threaten sinking either ship. And, of course, have your crew standing by in immersion suits ready to conduct rescue operations on the whaler's crew if you misestimate and cause her fatal damage.

Uhm, the Captain pretty much admitted that the whole reason he likes volunteers instead of professional sailors, is that he can get the starry eyed young activists to do the crazy shit he wants to do and a professional sailor would tell him to go fuck himself. That said, however, they do need to spend money on a new mother ship instead of auxiliary ships Their little rubber boats did fine enough last year for what they want them to do, they just need a better trained crew and perhaps a better rig to get them on/off the ship. Last year they got an Ex-Navy Officer who knows how to run a ship and she tried her damnedest to get some rules, training, and plain organization into the running of the ship.

[Hawkwings]

I recall that during last year's campaign, they were rather successful at saving whales simply by chasing the whaling ships around with their mothership. The harpoon ships can't whale while being chased, hence whales being saved.

[Knife]

I recall that during last year's campaign, they were rather successful at saving whales simply by chasing the whaling ships around with their mothership. The harpoon ships can't whale while being chased, hence whales being saved.

IIRC, didn't work after a while. The Sea Shepard's sat on the 'factory ship' thinking that would stop the whaling, but all that happened was the whalers just went out and caught whales then did rings around the Steve Erwin with their faster top speed and deliver whales to the factory ship. Somebody has gotten the Japanese fleet organized as of last year, hmmm maybe Blackwater?

Anyway, it is interesting that the Sea Shepard's have admitted to themselves that their tactics and gear were outdated and have made attempts to change. I guess the SS Bob Barker was a whaler itself at one time. Wonder if it can keep up with the Japanese whalers since the Steve Erwin can't.

[Uraniun235]

What occurred to me when I saw the video of the Batboat getting rammed is that all those people got washed over with ocean water, and that must have been fucking freezing if they're way down in the Antarctic. They're lucky nobody got swept under and died.

[Ford Prefect]

After listening to the audio on Sea Shepherd's own footage, with their completely unexcited responses, I'd be very surprised if they weren't trying to get themselves sunk there for the publicity. The video certainly appears to show them trying to get in the way, and I have a hard time believing that a vessel they were crowing about the speed and agility of only a month ago couldn't get out of the way of the slow moving ship they put themselves in the way of.

That really doesn't seem likely. The boat was an absolute windfall that rarely comes to an organisation like Sea Shepard: they're pretty crazy, but I doubt they're crazy enough to throw away gift like that weeks after they got it working properly.

[Sea Skimmer]

That really doesn't seem likely. The boat was an absolute windfall that rarely comes to an organisation like Sea Shepard: they're pretty crazy, but I doubt they're crazy enough to throw away gift like that weeks after they got it working properly.

Why? Money can’t all that big issue now that they get paid to be filmed in an internationally broadcast TV show that can attract a million viewers and no doubt a big spike in donations. In fact by many accounts the antics they now engage in have only ramped up compared to a few years back, and given what an obviously flashy design that boat has it might well have been funded directly by the shows producers specifically so they could get it rammed. The cameras are rolling on them, and they know drama brings viewers and attention, so they’ll attention whore all they can. It’s a worthy cause but the tactics and leadership involved are completely retarded.

You’ve got to be insane to think Sea Sheppard isn’t looking to cause collisions anyway. They’ve deliberated steered into the path of Japanese of vessels in numerous episodes and probably even more times we don’t see while having untrained fools man the helm. Ships are pretty simple, give way to the law gross tonnage or sink. No excuses in conditions like this.

[Ford Prefect]

Uh, are you even reading what I'm replying to? The idea that they would deliberately destroy a 2.5 million dollar boat for nebulous 'drama' reasons is totally absurd.

[adam_grif]

It is the blatant contempt for international law which makes me say that. You don't think they're openly thumbing their noses at international law by pretending that their entire whale catch is for "scientific research"?

It's not as though the whaling crews get together to twirl their mustaches and think about how they can violate international law to be as douchey as they possibly can.

[Thanas]

It's not as though the whaling crews get together to twirl their mustaches and think about how they can violate international law to be as douchey as they possibly can.

I don't get your post. The whole point of them is to violate international law, whether they try to be douchey about it or not does not matter.

[Mayabird]

It is the blatant contempt for international law which makes me say that. You don't think they're openly thumbing their noses at international law by pretending that their entire whale catch is for "scientific research"?

It's not as though the whaling crews get together to twirl their mustaches and think about how they can violate international law to be as douchey as they possibly can.

The crews maybe not, but I do suspect the government officials who promote and fund it do. As DPDP already pointed out, nobody eats the meat. They take up space in supermarket freezers in Tokyo while shoppers walk by, go, "Umm...yeah..." and then go buy eggs or something else that is definitely not whale meat. And the "research papers" produced are jokes. So why even bother? Whaling isn't even some ancient traditional Japanese tradition thingie. It's just throwing money down a hole while also killing rare and smart animals, a complete waste all around, AND it creates bad will with everyone except Iceland and Norway, and I doubt they're major trading partners.

The only reason I can come up with is that someone or a group of someones really is a giant douchebag that does it for the douchebaggery to piss off the West maybe. Maybe some 90 year old guy who's still butthurt about the unconditional surrender and wants to get back at everyone in his petty little way. I can't even claim it's a part of Japan being fucked up socially since the main society doesn't care about it.