Macross vs. Star Trek

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2002-08-15 11:23am

The year is 2009. In a horrible twist of fate, the SDF-01 'Macross' has engaged a spacefold with the intended target of the Moon...and instead ends up in Federation space. The UFP sends the GSC 'Enterprise' to investigate, but the SDF-01 mistakenly identifies them as the enemy. What happens?

I, personally, think that the SDF-01 would have a reasonably quick victory...but would like to see what others think. So, discuss.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2002-08-15 12:26pm

Can anyone say "Main-gun"

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-08-15 01:05pm

anyone can say reflex cannon

heheheh.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-08-15 01:44pm

Tell me about it the frelling main gun on the Macross disintigrates just about anything in its firing path and if it hits a planet it leaves a big crater.

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-08-15 02:15pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Tell me about it the frelling main gun on the Macross disintigrates just about anything in its firing path and if it hits a planet it leaves a big crater.

Of course you have just proven yourself that the maingun does NOT disintegrate everything in its path. If this would be through the SDF style reflex weapons would just fire THROUGH a planet...

it seems they have only the firepower of high megaton damage... maybe even low gigaton damage ( I don' think so ).

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-08-15 02:22pm

http://www.3dgamedev.com/robotech/ReferenceGuide.html

check out this site for info on the main cannon of the SDF-1, even if is not in the low GT range, the weapon is still quite impressive, espically if used by large fleets of zentraedia monitors who unleash a wall of fire.

I would like to see feddies survive that.

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-08-15 03:03pm

starfury wrote:http://www.3dgamedev.com/robotech/ReferenceGuide.html

check out this site for info on the main cannon of the SDF-1, even if is not in the low GT range, the weapon is still quite impressive, espically if used by large fleets of zentraedia monitors who unleash a wall of fire.

I would like to see feddies survive that.

A defiant might survive a SDF-1 shot... it's very small and would get only a fravtion of the total blast, with a firepower of less than 10 megatons...

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2002-08-15 03:49pm

Of course, the problem with the Robotech Reference Guide is that it's specifically stated to be for the author's own fanfic...so it's not really canon. Think about it for a second...how can something that vaporizes ships and fighters by the dozen possibly have firepower equivalent to a UFP photon torpedo?

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-08-15 05:48pm

Ryoga wrote:Of course, the problem with the Robotech Reference Guide is that it's specifically stated to be for the author's own fanfic...so it's not really canon. Think about it for a second...how can something that vaporizes ships and fighters by the dozen possibly have firepower equivalent to a UFP photon torpedo?

The SDF1 Reflex cannon produce a crater on a planet. THAT is a way to determine its TOTAL firepower. Unfortunately the beam of the relfex shot is HUGE, so a Defiant like craft would get only a small percentage of the damage if it turns it's head towards the SDF.

If I use Wongs Asteroid calculator it tells me that it only takes ~ 200 megatons to produce a crater 10 km wide into granite. Even a 20 km diameter crater only takes ~ 1.4 gigatons of tnt.

So the SDF Blast is hardly a multi-gigaton energy beam... And it seems to be hundreads of meters wide and high... the Defiant has only a small profile area, so it might survive the blast...

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-15 09:00pm

Macross actually seems interesting, and I think I might like it.

I'm going to rock the boat and go against most BattleTech fellow fans. I actually think Playmates (who ones Macross) was quite well justified. The stupid idoits should have known better than to steal copyrighted designs anyway.

Datana · Post by **Datana** » 2002-08-15 10:20pm

The situation with Battletech (originally Battledroids, until a visit from Lucas' lawyer squad convinced them to change the name) was extremely convoluted. Big West (who owned Macross in Japan) licensed overseas rights to Tatsunoko (arguably; a recent court case in Japan revoked T's rights outright due to bad contract wording and attempts to overreach their contract rights). They, in turn, handed most of the rights over to Harmony Gold. HG licensed out bits and pieces of Macross to assorted companies -- in the U.S., Playmates got the toy rights, Streamline got the rights to video (but not audio) from the series (which they turned into Robotech), and FASA applied for and was granted use of the mech designs. FASA was sued by Playmates for using the designs supposedly granted to Playmates, when in fact they also had a license. Namely, the right hand didn't know what the left was doing in the HG legal department when they wrote out the contracts. FASA really should have come up with their own mech designs in the first place, so perhaps the suit was worth it.

On topic, the Macross would wipe out the E-D pretty quickly. If the Main Gun didn't do it (which I highly doubt), fighters loaded out with reactive (Reflex) missiles would. Since phasers and photorps travel at significantly slower than lightspeed, the pinpoint barrier system could also be employed. I wonder how the Enterprise would deal with a Daedalus attack, given its fondness for sitting still?

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-08-15 10:50pm

The situation with Battletech (originally Battledroids, until a visit from Lucas' lawyer squad convinced them to change the name) was extremely convoluted. Big West (who owned Macross in Japan) licensed overseas rights to Tatsunoko (arguably; a recent court case in Japan revoked T's rights outright due to bad contract wording and attempts to overreach their contract rights). They, in turn, handed most of the rights over to Harmony Gold. HG licensed out bits and pieces of Macross to assorted companies -- in the U.S., Playmates got the toy rights, Streamline got the rights to video (but not audio) from the series (which they turned into Robotech), and FASA applied for and was granted use of the mech designs. FASA was sued by Playmates for using the designs supposedly granted to Playmates, when in fact they also had a license. Namely, the right hand didn't know what the left was doing in the HG legal department when they wrote out the contracts. FASA really should have come up with their own mech designs in the first place, so perhaps the suit was worth it.

there was a whole page on it from certain Robotech sites, one humoursly described the japanese artists as the "Robotech Masters". :

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-08-16 08:17am

HRogge wrote:
Ryoga wrote:Of course, the problem with the Robotech Reference Guide is that it's specifically stated to be for the author's own fanfic...so it's not really canon. Think about it for a second...how can something that vaporizes ships and fighters by the dozen possibly have firepower equivalent to a UFP photon torpedo?
The SDF1 Reflex cannon produce a crater on a planet. THAT is a way to determine its TOTAL firepower. Unfortunately the beam of the relfex shot is HUGE, so a Defiant like craft would get only a small percentage of the damage if it turns it's head towards the SDF.

If I use Wongs Asteroid calculator it tells me that it only takes ~ 200 megatons to produce a crater 10 km wide into granite. Even a 20 km diameter crater only takes ~ 1.4 gigatons of tnt.

So the SDF Blast is hardly a multi-gigaton energy beam... And it seems to be hundreads of meters wide and high... the Defiant has only a small profile area, so it might survive the blast...

And what sized crater did you use?

The best calc I've seen involded the original firing of the sdf-1. A guy named outofstep on spacebattles measured the amount of silccates vaporized by the reflex beam, and the distance involed. He got a minuim calc of 1.2 tts. Since he did not know how many tons of water it vaporized as well, he did not invole it in his calcs.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-08-16 10:27am

SDF1 doesn't have the pinpoint barrier at this point, and its EW capability isn't all it could be, so transporter shenanigans are likely to be effective.
Also, if you allow precedents set by sequels to Macross, specifically Macross 7, then we know that the Reflex Cannon doesn't destroy absolutely everything, although it would be more than sufficient to deal with one piddly little GCS.
If the Macross initiates hostilities with zero warning, then Picard gets obliterated, but the remainder of starfleet will investigate.
At this point the major question would be whether or not the fold drive is still with them, or if it disappeared as in the robotech series. No fold drive means that they are unable to get any real distance from the rapidly dispersing vapor cloud named Enterprise, and that Starfleet can continuously harass them until simple attrition destroys them. If the fold drive is still present and usable, then anything is possible.

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2002-08-16 11:36am

Actually, I've been thinking of running my own calcs based on the mass and number of vehicles vaporized by the main gun. I'll have to get a good chance to watch the DVDs, though.