Avatar review thread

[SAMAS]

Because clearly, the planet wasn't hard enough to operate on.

Congratulations, you've just most likely rendered the planet completely uninhabitable, not just unbreatheable.

[Lord Relvenous]

Seems like being on fire, or being deprived of oxygen and breathing in alien ammonia air were also par the course for him.

Yep, there were three separate instances where Quarich just held his breath while he took care of more important things. My friends and I agreed after seeing the movie that although he was a homicidal bastard, he was a homicidal bastard who also happened to be a hardass. The actor who played him got the performance down just right.

I found his reaction to the natives firing ballista sized arrows at him when he was in the Dragon almost comical in it's disbelief that they would dare challenge his supremacy.

[Kingmaker]

Seems like being on fire, or being deprived of oxygen and breathing in alien ammonia air were also par the course for him.

Just wait, man. He's totally going to be back in the sequels. It's going to turn out that Pandora has some kind of zombie-creating bacteria. Or Ewya ate his brain and now he's taken over the planet.

These attitudes say a lot about the moral character of some people here, or at least their intelligence if they actually think that these arguments make a lick of sense.

Or maybe it's just a backlash against the obnoxiously preachy and black and white tone of the movie. Combine the technophilic and aggressive attitudes of a lot of sci-fi fans with a movie where the industrialized civilization is a group of baby-punting evil bad guys and the primitive, closer to earth, noble savages are cast as morally superior in every possible way, and it isn't surprising that some people start grasping for reasons why RDA's actions are acceptable.

[Chardok]

Here's my review:

Ricky sat through the entire thing and didn't *move*.

Thumbs up from me.

[Vehrec]

Here's the review of a black girl I know.

People kept referencing the bit where Sully (~SO SUBTLE~) gives the Noble Savages a ROUSING speech about how the other humans cannot just take whatever they want because "This is our land!"

And, you guys, hahaha every time someone mentioned it I would have a RAGE STROKE (tm [info]latropita). And then I would think, "Okay, I am calm. I am calm. The anger consuming my soul has settled for now." But then I would think about it again by mistake and the rage would return stronger than ever agjdhkjls

"THIS IS OUR LAND"
- some dickwad in blueface to the indigenous people whose resources he came to steal

until he changed his mind since there was a hot, exotic piece of blue ass to tap

and hey, BONUS, racial impersonation is also a ~*~miracle cure~*~ for his pathetic wheelchair-ridden human body cuz ableism is AWESOME *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

Why is this.

WHY IS ANY OF THIS!??!?!

I just... what I

how

why

A??AS?A?A?AA?!?!?!!?

this is OUR land

ahahsgjdhkshhahaa

hahaaghdgjhkbskjvd hatelaafffs sjahhs

whyyyyyy

i cant even ajks

asd

#murder

#worsethantiberius

Sooo, count me with the detractors. Because filthy honkey cracker white-boy I may be, but even I find that cringe worthy. You've been on planet a month TOPS boy, you have no right to that phrase.

[Lord Relvenous]

Here's the review of a black girl I know.

-snip whatever that was-

Sooo, count me with the detractors. Because filthy honkey cracker white-boy I may be, but even I find that cringe worthy. You've been on planet a month TOPS boy, you have no right to that phrase.

By that point he was on the planet at least 3 months actually. Either way, he had been fully assimilated into the People by that point. Remember that whole thing with the ceremony about his second birth? So yeah, that meant that he was part of the Omaticaya, so his usage of that phrase was appropriate. He wasn't just some guy in "blueface", he was an accepted member of their society.

[spaceviking]

Here's the review of a black girl I know.

People kept referencing the bit where Sully (~SO SUBTLE~) gives the Noble Savages a ROUSING speech about how the other humans cannot just take whatever they want because "This is our land!"

And, you guys, hahaha every time someone mentioned it I would have a RAGE STROKE (tm [info]latropita). And then I would think, "Okay, I am calm. I am calm. The anger consuming my soul has settled for now." But then I would think about it again by mistake and the rage would return stronger than ever agjdhkjls

"THIS IS OUR LAND"
- some dickwad in blueface to the indigenous people whose resources he came to steal

until he changed his mind since there was a hot, exotic piece of blue ass to tap

and hey, BONUS, racial impersonation is also a ~*~miracle cure~*~ for his pathetic wheelchair-ridden human body cuz ableism is AWESOME *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

Why is this.

WHY IS ANY OF THIS!??!?!

I just... what I

how

why

A??AS?A?A?AA?!?!?!!?

this is OUR land

ahahsgjdhkshhahaa

hahaaghdgjhkbskjvd hatelaafffs sjahhs

whyyyyyy

i cant even ajks

asd

#murder

#worsethantiberius

Sooo, count me with the detractors. Because filthy honkey cracker white-boy I may be, but even I find that cringe worthy. You've been on planet a month TOPS boy, you have no right to that phrase.

Ya, just like how recent immigrants have no right to be patriotic, right.

[hongi]

and the primitive, closer to earth, noble savages are cast as morally superior in every possible way

The natives were also quite willing to put to death Grace and Jake. I didn't get the impression that they were perfect.

[Kingmaker]

and the primitive, closer to earth, noble savages are cast as morally superior in every possible way

The natives were also quite willing to put to death Grace and Jake. I didn't get the impression that they were perfect.

Exhibiting hostile behavior towards people you have very good reason to believe have just sold you out to your enemies is not exactly unreasonable. And whether or not they were actually perfect is immaterial; they were portrayed as sufficiently so to grate on many people who are not receptive to one with nature/noble savage themes, thus generating the backlash of people who wanted to Col. Miles McBadass Quaritch to light the space elfcats on fire.

[Darth Wong]

Here's the review of a black girl I know.

People kept referencing the bit where Sully (~SO SUBTLE~) gives the Noble Savages a ROUSING speech about how the other humans cannot just take whatever they want because "This is our land!"

And, you guys, hahaha every time someone mentioned it I would have a RAGE STROKE (tm [info]latropita). And then I would think, "Okay, I am calm. I am calm. The anger consuming my soul has settled for now." But then I would think about it again by mistake and the rage would return stronger than ever agjdhkjls

"THIS IS OUR LAND"
- some dickwad in blueface to the indigenous people whose resources he came to steal

until he changed his mind since there was a hot, exotic piece of blue ass to tap

and hey, BONUS, racial impersonation is also a ~*~miracle cure~*~ for his pathetic wheelchair-ridden human body cuz ableism is AWESOME *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

Why is this.

WHY IS ANY OF THIS!??!?!

I just... what I

how

why

A??AS?A?A?AA?!?!?!!?

this is OUR land

ahahsgjdhkshhahaa

hahaaghdgjhkbskjvd hatelaafffs sjahhs

whyyyyyy

i cant even ajks

asd

#murder

#worsethantiberius

Sooo, count me with the detractors. Because filthy honkey cracker white-boy I may be, but even I find that cringe worthy. You've been on planet a month TOPS boy, you have no right to that phrase.

So this black girl you know decided to act exactly like the worst uneducated moron stereotype who can't articulate a worthwhile opinion or a cogent criticism, and you declare that therefore, it must be true. Because she's black, and blacks cannot be wrong on racial issues, right? Sort of like how all criticism of racism in the Republican Party was instantly made wrong when Michael Steele became chairman, right?

What the fuck makes this imbecile such an authority on the issue? The fact that she's black, angry, and apparently illiterate? Avatar is an obvious metaphor for the American Native conquest, not African slavery.

[Darth Wong]

These attitudes say a lot about the moral character of some people here, or at least their intelligence if they actually think that these arguments make a lick of sense.

Or maybe it's just a backlash against the obnoxiously preachy and black and white tone of the movie. Combine the technophilic and aggressive attitudes of a lot of sci-fi fans with a movie where the industrialized civilization is a group of baby-punting evil bad guys and the primitive, closer to earth, noble savages are cast as morally superior in every possible way, and it isn't surprising that some people start grasping for reasons why RDA's actions are acceptable.

Dude, do you honestly not see what Avatar is? It's the most lavish and spectacular and expensive family movie ever made. It has the basic narrative structure of a Disney movie. Lambasting it because it has a simplistic moral tone is like lambasting Snow White for not fleshing out the Wicked Queen's character and making us sympathize with her.

That's what Cameron does: he takes genres and he tries to make the most professional example of them that he can. Monster movies: Aliens. Star-crossed romances: Titanic. Adult action movies: True Lies. Family action movies: Avatar. He's a little bit like Ridley Scott that way, bouncing from genre to genre.

Kids love this movie, if their parents aren't the sort of people who wouldn't let them see it.

[Kingmaker]

Dude, do you honestly not see what Avatar is? It's the most lavish and spectacular and expensive family movie ever made. It has the basic narrative structure of a Disney movie. Lambasting it because it has a simplistic moral tone is like lambasting Snow White for not fleshing out the Wicked Queen's character and making us sympathize with her.

I'm not trying to say you are bad or wrong for liking it (and I'm fairly confident you don't care anyway), or deny that some of my issues with the movie are irrational. I'm not even saying it is a bad movie (I will maintain that it is not a great movie). I'm just trying to explain why I think I and a lot of other people were disappointed and annoyed by it: I felt like I was being condescended and insulted.

Hell, I was even entertained while I was watching it (aside from stopping to go "my eyes! my eyes!" every twenty minutes). It just didn't come across as a family movie to me, which would have excused a lot of the problems I had with it. But, then I'll defend Speed Racer to the death as the Citizen Kane of family action movies, so my opinion isn't exactly reliable.

[mr friendly guy]

And, you guys, hahaha every time someone mentioned it I would have a RAGE STROKE (tm [info]latropita). And then I would think, "Okay, I am calm. I am calm. The anger consuming my soul has settled for now." But then I would think about it again by mistake and the rage would return stronger than ever agjdhkjls

"THIS IS OUR LAND"
- some dickwad in blueface to the indigenous people whose resources he came to steal

until he changed his mind since there was a hot, exotic piece of blue ass to tap

and hey, BONUS, racial impersonation is also a ~*~miracle cure~*~ for his pathetic wheelchair-ridden human body cuz ableism is AWESOME *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

Why is this.

WHY IS ANY OF THIS!??!?!

The reason is your friend seems stupid accounting for the shitty punctuation and poor spelling. There, answered the question.

Oh, she means how the hell can he say "this is our land". Well he simply opens his mouth, while his lung pumps air to vibrate vocal folds, while the muscles of the of the larynx adjust the length and tension of the vocal folds to give us the pitch and tone. There, alien physiology 101.

Sooo, count me with the detractors. Because filthy honkey cracker white-boy I may be, but even I find that cringe worthy. You've been on planet a month TOPS boy, you have no right to that phrase.

I am curious. How long do you have to live in a place to be able to be counted as one of its citizens? If I am hired by a company and only employed for one month, does that make me NOT a member of that company even through my awesome knowledge of the opposition and personal skills allows me to be made leader? Because it seems to me saying this is our land indicates he considers himself one of the people now. Especially since he preceded this with "we will send them a message". Not You will send them a message, but we will send them a message. What did you think it meant? Jake making a grammatical error?

[PeZook]

Sooo, count me with the detractors. Because filthy honkey cracker white-boy I may be, but even I find that cringe worthy. You've been on planet a month TOPS boy, you have no right to that phrase.

Yeah, because it's not like Jake had other motivations than sex with the hot blue space chick, right? It's not like he genuinely befriended the Na'Vi, went through their initiation rites, came to love Pandora and its pristine natural state and fell in love (oh, I guess your friend missed that totally unimportant part) with a local woman. He was totally not upset when Selfridge decided they were going to bulldoze the tree anyway, he could only think of alien booty that whole time!

I totally agree, the fact that he was willing to betray his employers, risk his life and throw away any chance of a happy life on Earth in defence of a Na'Vi religious site gives him no right to call himself one of them! What a scumbag with shallow motivations. Totally not a positive character. He should be derided for the rest of his life for his decision.

What's next, people are gonna start praising Quaritch as a positive character because he's a strong leader? Jesus...

[Darwin]

What's next, people are gonna start praising Quaritch as a positive character because he's a strong leader? Jesus...

Quaritch was a supreme badass who could have flattened Home Tree any time he liked with a single swing of his enormous ballsack, but that would have just been too easy.

Seriously though I can't believe Jake's motivations are even under debate here.

[Starglider]

Actually, strike my previous comments about the Na'vi earning themselves an orbital bombardment. The computer game plot is much cooler;

In the Avatar video game, the global neural link can be manipulated by humans as well. If the player chooses to side with the RDA, then the main objective throughout the game is to gather three psionic crystals in certain areas and plant them near specific crystal willow trees, which are said to be where emanations of Eywa concentrate. This is done so that the willow trees emit a beam and signal that activates and points people toward the direction of the Well of Souls. This allows RDA scientists to both find the Well of Souls and build an artificial psionic machine that emulates an aggressive version of the smaller willow trees' signals, which is then planted in front of the active Well of Souls. This allows the RDA to tap into Eywa itself, control the psionic consciousness, and take control of the planet itself to turn it against the Na'vi, thereby giving the RDA a decisive advantage. Eventually, the RDA is successful in these efforts, and is now inevitably on the way to winning the war against the Na'vi and taking absolute control of Pandora. This only occurs if the player sides with the RDA.

Ok the specifics are nonsense ('psionic crystals' lol) but I like the general idea. So you've got yourself a squishy version of the Internet? Which you have no technical understanding of and interpret through spiritual metaphors? By now humanity has a century and a half of practice hacking, cracking and writing viruses, to go with the advanced biotech. In fact why stop with taking over all the wildlife and reprogram them to help with the colonisation effort, when you can turn the soul trees into spam servers and have the Na'vi think their ancestors want them to revere the humans as gods? A deliciously evil way of defeating and subjugating all the noble savages without physically harming any of them.

[Shroom Man 777]

Or maybe it's just a backlash against the obnoxiously preachy and black and white tone of the movie. Combine the technophilic and aggressive attitudes of a lot of sci-fi fans with a movie where the industrialized civilization is a group of baby-punting evil bad guys and the primitive, closer to earth, noble savages are cast as morally superior in every possible way, and it isn't surprising that some people start grasping for reasons why RDA's actions are acceptable.

Swap James Cameron with Steven Spielberg, replace those Na'vi dreadlocks with naturally-occuring neural interfaces that look like yid lids, replace unobtanium with a repository of Jew Gold, and replace the hunting lessons with the Na'vi telling Jake why shellfish isn't kosher, and give those RDA guys stalhelms and make their mechas goosestep and none of you would make a peep.

Hey, it's not like modern industrialized civilization is raping the environment or killing a whole fuckload of species at a rate only paralleled by mass extinction events, or destroying natural sanctuaries like the Amazon and the Great Barrier Reef by deforestation or unrepentant global warming, and a simplistic allegory is so terrible, right? And it's not like as if history is not replete with humans, or at least those with control and in power, committing atrocities on those without control or power, and it's not like such things aren't happening to this day, am i rite?

I stand by my previous statement advocating a movie about the US military going to Antarctica to mine its oil (after melting all the ice with Global Warming), before being soundly defeated by an army of penguins and baby seals led by Micheal Moore and General Pretaeus getting devoured by an Antarctic hippopotamus in an epic knifefight on the Last Glacier of the World.

[Vehrec]

And, you guys, hahaha every time someone mentioned it I would have a RAGE STROKE (tm [info]latropita). And then I would think, "Okay, I am calm. I am calm. The anger consuming my soul has settled for now." But then I would think about it again by mistake and the rage would return stronger than ever agjdhkjls

"THIS IS OUR LAND"
- some dickwad in blueface to the indigenous people whose resources he came to steal

until he changed his mind since there was a hot, exotic piece of blue ass to tap

and hey, BONUS, racial impersonation is also a ~*~miracle cure~*~ for his pathetic wheelchair-ridden human body cuz ableism is AWESOME *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

Why is this.

WHY IS ANY OF THIS!??!?!

The reason is your friend seems stupid accounting for the shitty punctuation and poor spelling. There, answered the question.

Oh, she means how the hell can he say "this is our land". Well he simply opens his mouth, while his lung pumps air to vibrate vocal folds, while the muscles of the of the larynx adjust the length and tension of the vocal folds to give us the pitch and tone. There, alien physiology 101.

You're being a jerk and an idiot. I do not find your idea of a joke here funny.

Sooo, count me with the detractors. Because filthy honkey cracker white-boy I may be, but even I find that cringe worthy. You've been on planet a month TOPS boy, you have no right to that phrase.

I am curious. How long do you have to live in a place to be able to be counted as one of its citizens? If I am hired by a company and only employed for one month, does that make me NOT a member of that company even through my awesome knowledge of the opposition and personal skills allows me to be made leader? Because it seems to me saying this is our land indicates he considers himself one of the people now. Especially since he preceded this with "we will send them a message". Not You will send them a message, but we will send them a message. What did you think it meant? Jake making a grammatical error?

Well, it depends on the place and where you came from. After all, in Key West most of the people are white, speak english and are otherwise obviously American. However, even other Americans who move to the island are not automatically accepted as members of the keys community. Nor are they accepted after a year. Nor Five years. Nor Ten or Twenty Five years. Getting accepted into their circle takes an entire generation, and even then you're still marked. No racial barriers, no language difficulties, no major cultural differences. But there is a defined barrier to entry.

Now, I'll admit the Key West society is insular to the point of declaring itself a Sovreign State of Mind. But I do not think that after a period as short as this whitey can call himself one of the tribe, regardless of what color he was to begin with or what color he is now.

[Shroom Man 777]

So when a person has gone through all the rites of passage in that society, learned all their cultures, accepts their ways, and is initiated through that ritual where they all touch him and touch each other and form a big circle to officially acknowledge him into your society, and when that person falls in love with one of the natives and falls in love with the culture, when that person finds himself more at home in this new land (because he found his previous existence wretched and paraplegic) than in his old one, and when he is willing to cast away his previous existence and is willing to risk his life and die for his newfound people, somehow this is still not enough for your standards of acceptance (though, woah, it seems like the Na'vi are more open minded and appreciative and shit)? What should the Na'vi have done, then? Deport Jake Sully back to Mexico?

[Vehrec]

Here's the review of a black girl I know.

People kept referencing the bit where Sully (~SO SUBTLE~) gives the Noble Savages a ROUSING speech about how the other humans cannot just take whatever they want because "This is our land!"

And, you guys, hahaha every time someone mentioned it I would have a RAGE STROKE (tm [info]latropita). And then I would think, "Okay, I am calm. I am calm. The anger consuming my soul has settled for now." But then I would think about it again by mistake and the rage would return stronger than ever agjdhkjls

"THIS IS OUR LAND"
- some dickwad in blueface to the indigenous people whose resources he came to steal

until he changed his mind since there was a hot, exotic piece of blue ass to tap

and hey, BONUS, racial impersonation is also a ~*~miracle cure~*~ for his pathetic wheelchair-ridden human body cuz ableism is AWESOME *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

Why is this.

WHY IS ANY OF THIS!??!?!

I just... what I

how

why

A??AS?A?A?AA?!?!?!!?

this is OUR land

ahahsgjdhkshhahaa

hahaaghdgjhkbskjvd hatelaafffs sjahhs

whyyyyyy

i cant even ajks

asd

#murder

#worsethantiberius

Sooo, count me with the detractors. Because filthy honkey cracker white-boy I may be, but even I find that cringe worthy. You've been on planet a month TOPS boy, you have no right to that phrase.

So this black girl you know decided to act exactly like the worst uneducated moron stereotype who can't articulate a worthwhile opinion or a cogent criticism, and you declare that therefore, it must be true. Because she's black, and blacks cannot be wrong on racial issues, right? Sort of like how all criticism of racism in the Republican Party was instantly made wrong when Michael Steele became chairman, right?

Wow Mike. Way to jump to conclusions. I mean, obviously she wasn't reduced to incoherency by the sheer inanity of seeing the damn whitey saves the natives plot again. Obviously she wasn't expecting the heroic leader of the aliens to actually be, I dunno, an alien? Obviously, she doesn't have her rage buttons that this movie was pressing pretty damn hard. Obviously I do not respect her for previous cognizant and well argued points that are beyond the scope of this thread. I mean, if she made me think about Spock in a totally new way last summer, that's irrelevant because now she's mad and crafting a post on her blog to reflect how mad she is. Oh, and forbid I trim her post for length and effect to get to what I feel is the heart of the issue people were discussing with her.

No, all this past history is irrelevant to my conclusions. Clearly, in reading the most rage-filled part of her review, you have seen through to the heart of her idiocy and her inability to string two words together.

What the fuck makes this imbecile such an authority on the issue? The fact that she's black, angry, and apparently illiterate? Avatar is an obvious metaphor for the American Native conquest, not African slavery.

I note that you are neither an African or an American Native, and you still hold views on racism against those minorities, right? Ergo, her race does not disqualify her from calling other people on issues of race other than her own. I also seem to recall that you don't buy into the theory that these kinds of movies are a kind of safe fantasy for white people about leading minorities from the inside instead of the outside. So you clearly bring a different thesis to the movie than she does.

[K. A. Pital]

To be fair Jake had an alien body and worked hard for the entire time, for the aliens to consider him "one of them". It was the plot of the entire fucking movie to have him become their leader. Now, it seems the Na'Vi hold their customs and traditions in high regard; Jake passed all of them and captured the giant flying HMS "Final Shadow" to boot, which promptly convinced all tribes that he is a legendary leader of epic proportions.

Could that happen? Well, in a civilization that keen on totemic rites, why not? And why could Sully not say "This is our land" if he firmly sided with the natives by that time? Because ... what?

Other than some people's too sensitive Suspense of Disbelief, there's nothing indicating it's bad or unacceptable or something.

I mean, he went the Michael Jackson way from a skin color point of view in the end of the movie. That is like the ultimate proof of his final acceptance of his NaVi body and him being "one of them".

[Vehrec]

So when a person has gone through all the rites of passage in that society, learned all their cultures, accepts their ways, and is initiated through that ritual where they all touch him and touch each other and form a big circle to officially acknowledge him into your society, and when that person falls in love with one of the natives and falls in love with the culture, when that person finds himself more at home in this new land (because he found his previous existence wretched and paraplegic) than in his old one, and when he is willing to cast away his previous existence and is willing to risk his life and die for his newfound people, somehow this is still not enough for your standards of acceptance (though, woah, it seems like the Na'vi are more open minded and appreciative and shit)?

Wow. They'd let a cheese sandwich join the tribe, wouldn't they? And it's amazing how someone who's never been on this planet before takes to the stone-age life like a duck to water, isn't it? I mean, it's not like you need to learn all the plants and animals, what you can eat and what you can't, all the cultural subtleties that can get you kicked out in the rain. Oh goodness, no, that would take years, we don't have time for that in this movie.

What should the Na'vi have done, then? Deport Jake Sully back to Mexico?

There's a difference, in my opinion, between being accepted by a culture, even sacrificing for that culture and being a part of it. My key West dickholes will let you fish with them, will let you salvage with them (before the coming of the tourist, living on Key West basically consisted of fishing and stealing from the dead.) and will even help you rip off other Mainlanders. You're still a Mainlander though. Plenty of ghetto kids in my country join the military and die so that white-bread suburbanites and Haliburton CEOs can have their white bread and golden soup spoon existences. If we break down the number of people who have fought and died for the "American Dream" in the past 50 years, how many of them had a reasonable expectation of attaining said dream?

[K. A. Pital]

Oh goodness, no, that would take years, we don't have time for that in this movie.

To be fair, quite often noble savage stories have years to complete initiation. Why does a little movie expediency bother people? And the Na'Vi are hardly ghetto folk - they are just primitive tribes with certain rites of passage.

[PeZook]

Wow. They'd let a cheese sandwich join the tribe, wouldn't they? And it's amazing how someone who's never been on this planet before takes to the stone-age life like a duck to water, isn't it? I mean, it's not like you need to learn all the plants and animals, what you can eat and what you can't, all the cultural subtleties that can get you kicked out in the rain. Oh goodness, no, that would take years, we don't have time for that in this movie.

Can I ask what your goddamned point is? Who the fuck cares if the Na'Vi are easy going enough to let someone become part of their tribe after only three months? It's their tribe and their culture. They certainly didn't seem to mind Jake considering himself one of them...so what the hell? He should've refrained from saying those oh-so-offensive words until he met the Key West standard of acceptance? If the people in question accepted him enough to let it slide, he's one of them. It really is that simple.

There's a difference, in my opinion, between being accepted by a culture, even sacrificing for that culture and being a part of it. My key West dickholes will let you fish with them, will let you salvage with them (before the coming of the tourist, living on Key West basically consisted of fishing and stealing from the dead.) and will even help you rip off other Mainlanders. You're still a Mainlander though.

Yeah, and it's different for the Na'Vi, because they place more value on totemic rites than the place you came from. So?

Plenty of ghetto kids in my country join the military and die so that white-bread suburbanites and Haliburton CEOs can have their white bread and golden soup spoon existences. If we break down the number of people who have fought and died for the "American Dream" in the past 50 years, how many of them had a reasonable expectation of attaining said dream?

So? Are you arguing that a Ghetto kid doesn't have a right to say "I joined the army to defend my country"? Should he perhaps only be allowed to say this when he's met some arbitrary Vehrec Standard Of Assimilation?

[SylasGaunt]

He'd gone through all the neccesary ceremonies and rituals including the big one with catching his own Banshee. He'd learned about the local flora and fauna from Neytiri and also I assume from the rest of the Avatar team. Furthermore he was a marine and he had previously gone through combat in the bush so I would assume he had some survival training to begin with.

But basically let's run with Vehrec's key west argument.. he's basically arguing that it would be wrong for Jake to consider himself a Key Wester AFTER doing everything required to get the Key Westers to consider him one.